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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
| Re: DTV picture is terrible I've been using DTv for about 3 years now with no issue in Los Angeles area, but I also don't use HD.
I picked them over Comcast , as 3 tuners on DTV was $55 including taxes, etc, while Comcast digital STARTED at $60.10 + fees and taxes. TimeWarner took over Comcast here, and prices are now down to $45/month + fees/taxes for 1 tuner ($7.99 for each extra), so it is more comparable.
I'm waiting for my contract with DSL-X to be up to weigh my options.
DTV (3 tuners on + package) now = $61/month
DSLX 3008/512 = $26.80 / month
AT&T (unlimited) = $45/month + $12 taxes / fees
= 132.80 + $12 taxes/fees
TW = $45 + $7.99 + $7.99
TW phone = $39.99 ($5 discount bundle)
TW HSI = $34.99
= 135.96 + taxes / fees
They're close in price... if I was on 6008/512 on DSLX, they would be even closer. | |
| | rhexis
join:2002-05-18
Gilbertsville, PA
| said by DHRacer  :I've had two dishes professionally installed, and two receivers swapped out, and still my DTV is a pixelated mess and the receiver randomly reboots. user or equipment error. good idea to go with cable. its a lot easier for people to use. | |
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DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA
·Charter Pipeline
·Verizon west (ex G..
| Re: DTV picture is terrible Considering I have done about 5 DTV installs personally with older DTV hardware, I say this newfangled 5LNB dish and associated H20 receiver with it's "add-on adapter for 5LNB dish" is suspect and needs the kinks worked out. It's definately not the user, here.
I too, have no real issues with most of DTV's package, but what's tolerable on non-HD channels gets a lot worse on HD channnels. Obviously, they are barely getting by with what they've managed to cram onto their existing satellites and need that new sat up asap to relieve some of this congestion. Maybe they can lighten up on the compression then too, but I doubt it as they are probably going to cram all that new "more HD content than cable" on the next bird.
--
"No one will believe you solved this problem in one day! We've been working on it for months. Now, go act busy for a few weeks and I'll let you know when it's time to tell them." (R&D Supervisor, Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing /3M Corp.) | |
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fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium
join:2005-07-01
Atlanta, GA
| said by DHRacer :I've had two dishes professionally installed, and two receivers swapped out, and still my DTV is a pixelated mess and the receiver randomly reboots. Something isn't right with your setup. I've seen too many great DTV HD systems to believe your example is indicative of all of them. In several friends homes who had both cable and DTV available at one time, the DTV HD pictures were superior and they chose to drop the cable in favor of DTV.
I listen to anyone's experiences, but when I see someone start with the "hd-lite" term, I immediately tune them out. Only cable fanboys use that term, in a derogatory manner.
The issue in this topic is DirecTV protesting Comcast's use of a deceptive advertising tactic, which they frequently do. Just look at their deceptive advertising against DSL here in Atlanta. They compare the speed of their service against the lowest speed DSL service (6Mbps vs. 512Kbps) but fail to acknowledge that DSL also provides a 6Mbps service here, or fails to acknowledge that the lowest price Comcast service is nearly $50 per month compared to the $24 per month low-price DSL service. If compared to similarly priced services, Comcast and DSL are equal speed. But you have to read the incredibly fast and fine print on their advertising to see that. | |
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DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA
·Charter Pipeline
·Verizon west (ex G..
| Re: DTV picture is terrible said by fuziwuzi :said by DHRacer :I listen to anyone's experiences, but when I see someone start with the "hd-lite" term, I immediately tune them out. Only cable fanboys use that term, in a derogatory manner. Show me where I use that term. The last time I really had cable was in 1999, and I dropped it then. I got it again briefly for about 2 months in 2005 before I discovered DTV was cheaper and better. I wouldn't say I'm a cable fanboy at all. In fact, without HD, I think DTV is better than cable. But my problem is the HD. I like it, I want it, and DTV can't deliver a quality picture. So I'm trying someone else. If cable sucks, maybe I'll go back to DTV. Hardly a fanboy to do that. I think any company will use deceptive marketing to its advantage as long as they don't think they will get called to the carpet for it. DTV has yet to deliver its claims. Heck it doesn't even have a deliverable product as of yet, so it's essentially vaporware. Cable certainly has a less expensive (at least to having a sat built and launched) upgrade path to compete right back. I think Comcast was mad that DTV was already starting in with these commercials but there was no product to compare it to because DTV's product didn't exist yet. While it's nice to inform the public of upcoming worthy upgrades, as a DTV customer for 2 years myself (and about 12 years with my family) that DTV has been promising lots of things for a long time and we are only now just starting to see some of what they promised. I for one would like to see DTV just shut up and put their money where their mouth is and show us already what's so great up their sleeve. --
"No one will believe you solved this problem in one day! We've been working on it for months. Now, go act busy for a few weeks and I'll let you know when it's time to tell them." (R&D Supervisor, Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing /3M Corp.) | |
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novaflare
The Dragon Was Here
Premium
join:2002-01-24
Barberton, OH
| Forgive the nube question here. But dtv is 1080i right? cables hd (least here is) 1080 or 1080p Isnt 1080 i interlaced meaning its not really 1080 lines but more like 540? While 1080 is 1080 and 1080p is the same but a difference in how the picture is produced?
So if this is the case doesn't this infact mean that cables 1080 is automatically better than dtvs 1080i?
Now i am not familiar with hd tv as i have non and have no need for it at this point so forgive my total ignorance here. But i do remember that the old voodoo vid cards sli was single line interlaced that effectivly doubled the speed of rendering. But tended to show a scan line in the middle of the screen left to right. As one card render one half of the screen the other rendered the other half. Giving you a itnerlaced imaged created from 2 half images.
And i do remember non interlaced images in computer terms was always better than interlaced.
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Instead only hate exists in those eyes. | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: DirecTV will never win this type of lawsuit Cable, satellite, or OTA is NOT offering 1080p programming. The only source of 1080p right now is some of the new HD/DVD disks.
The networks are transmitting either 720p or 1080i.
I don't know what DirecTV is sending down from the satellite.
But Comcast is sending either 720p or 1080i, depending on what is coming from the networks. My STB from Comcast is configured to send everything from the box to the TV at 1080i, upconverting 480i and 720p to 1080i.
1080i is interlaced. 1080p is progressive scan. They both put the same number of lines on the screen. But 1080p can put them on their faster(1 pass instead of 2), so it may look better when the scene is changing rapidly - like in sports programming like hockey. But for most prime time comedies and dramas, you won't notice any difference.
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Internet News
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: DirecTV will never win this type of lawsuit said by wcweaver :With the exception of a couple of plasma models, 1080i is only available in CRT tube TVs not flat panel TVs. If you are sending a 1080i signal to a 720 native resolution TV, then the TV is down scaling to 720p. I have a Widescreen CRT, so I am getting 1080i.
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Internet News
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| | | | | | | | | | | OlGraybeard
Premium
join:2004-06-12
Homestead, FL
| said by wcweaver :With the exception of a couple of plasma models, 1080i is only available in CRT tube TVs not flat panel TVs. Not to sure where you get your info, but you are wrong. LCD and DLP are very common rear projection (and in the smaller units, outright displays) that output true 1080p. Up until recently, 1080p was not in these units but about 2 years ago, Samsung started mass producing their DLPs in 1080p.
Most cable and Sat until recently had HD at 720i or p. cable I believe was first with 1080i and satellite followed *and 1080i looks about as good as 720p). However, many of the Terrestrial stations have been putting out 1080p and for a long time, if you had a system able to output 1080p, that was your only option. Everything else was up converted. Most terrestrial stations went ahead and setup for 1080p when they installed the equipment rather than spend the money twice to meet the new standards by the time it was to become required. | |
| | | | | | OlGraybeard
Premium
join:2004-06-12
Homestead, FL
| Re: DirecTV will never win this type of lawsuit I should probably clear one thing up on my last. The ATSC broadcast at 1080p is a 24 fps. Most sets convert this to 1080i, some can convert to 1080p and near 30 fps.
However, true 1080p is just around the corner. LG Phillips has done a proof of concept previously at CES (believe in January) sending a broadcast signal at 1080p at 60 fps. | |
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lml2000
Whazzup
join:2000-08-17
Los Angeles, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by wcweaver :With the exception of a couple of plasma models, 1080i is only available in CRT tube TVs not flat panel TVs. It is physically impossible for the most common TVs with a 1366 x 768 resolution (720p Native) to display 1080i. Lotta misinformation. 1080i is an HD format, which requires an HDTV. It is irrelevant whether that TV is plasma, LCD or CRT. Presume by "common TV" you mean analog TVs vs. HDTVs. With HDTV capabilities, there's really no distinction b/w 720p & 1080i, their just formats which require @ least 720 lines of resolution. A 1080i format requires two frames rather than one to complete the content's original frame. So, the frame rate is 2X that of 720p, but each frame's resolution is less.
said by wcweaver :The TVs are accepting input at higher than 720 but all resolutions higher than 720p whether 1080i or 1080p are scaled down to 720p. What are now referred to as "True HD" TVs have a resolution of 1920 X 1080 and can display a 1080i signal without scaling. If you are sending a 1080i signal to a 720 native resolution TV, then the TV is down scaling to 720p. . . .And as someone previously mentioned no one is broadcasting or delivering a 1920 X 1080 signal. Non-compressed 1080i has a resolution of 1920 x 1080 pixels. You are confusing resolution v. format. OTA HD stations are broadcasting at or close to 1920 x 1080 resolution. Unless you have a 1080p HDTV, a "720p" HDTV will only be able to deliver 540 lines in two frames v. a single frame of 1080 lines of resolution.
said by wcweaver :I don't have DirecTV but I do have Dish HD. I also have Comcast HD and the Dish picture is much better, "in my opinion", than the Comcast picture on the same HD TV. Comcast is a little washed out or dimmer. So I don't see why DirecTV could not be as good or better than Comcast. The issue with cable is the quality of the local plant will determine its capacity to carry high bandwidth video signals. Not all cable systems are alike. A local cable system's capability is also going to be limited by the weakest link in its plant. So, quality of HD signals delivered by a cable company are going to vary greatly.
The big joke, IMHO, about the Comcast test, is that it undoubtedly conducted its comparison test over its highest quality plant, which might only exist in several large markets & perhaps serve less than 20 percent of subscribers. My guess is Comcast might be better than DirecTV & Dish in some markets, but not in many others.
I think the Comcast study will pressure DirecTV to open up its pipes a bit for its most popular HD channels when it expands its HD lineup in the fall of this year. Actually, my guess is they may already being doing this a bit already with certain sports programming b/c of the EZ comparison when major HD sports programming can be viewed OTA. Subs don't want to tune into ESPN-HD & see lower quality HD than when they watch MLB, NFL, NBA or whatever on CBS, NBC, ABC or FOX. | |
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lml2000
Whazzup
join:2000-08-17
Los Angeles, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by TKJunkMail :The networks are transmitting either 720p or 1080i. . . . I don't know what DirecTV is sending down from the satellite. . . . But Comcast is sending either 720p or 1080i, depending on what is coming from the networks. My STB from Comcast is configured to send everything from the box to the TV at 1080i, upconverting 480i and 720p to 1080i. 720p & 1080i are broadcast formats, not transmission schemes. So, the carriers (i.e. DBS, cable) don't alter the native format broadcasted by the content provider. It is your STB that has the ability to convert 720p to 1080i or vice-versa, before the format is presented on your HDTV display monitor.
Usually, the subscriber has the option to set the receiver either to (i) native format, so what comes into the reciever is delivered to the display in the same format, or (ii) pre-set format so whatever come into the receiver is set to whichever format the sub prefers (720p or 1080i). | |
| | | Foxbat121
join:2001-04-25
Herndon, VA
| Both DirectTV and Dish Network down sample the full 1080i (1920x1080) to HD Lite (1280x1080) to save bandwidth. On the cable side, some pass original 1080i untouched. Some re-compress them to save bandwidth. Even within the same cable co, it changes from market to market. On top of that, local HD broadcasting channels also may add additional compression to its network program to save bandwidth for sub channels. So, no body can really calim who's the absolute leader nation wide. But one thing is clear, both DTV and Dish are on the bottom as far as HD quality concerns. | |
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supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL | Gee Cable sued Sat now Sat is suing Cable. Who pays over a stupid ad? The consumer in a higher price eventually.
How about:
Consumers suing both for NOT providing a decent picture? | |
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marcelle19
cross
Premium,MVM
join:2002-03-02
Phelan, CA
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Gee said by supergirl :Cable sued Sat now Sat is suing Cable. Who pays over a stupid ad? The consumer in a higher price eventually. How about: Consumers suing both for NOT providing a decent picture? Yeah!!!
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Some people think they gain through dishonest means, never realizing that in lying, cheating, and other dishonesty, they are losing pieces of themselves, which they can never recover. SPECIAL | |
| rantou
join:2002-06-04
Richardson, TX
| IMHO Cable wins over DTV... Dish wins too. I tend to believe that based on what I saw, putting the two side-by-side and viewing them, the cable in my area (Time Warner) does exceed DirecTV by a long-shot on HDTV content. The picture on DTV just looked rancid compared to what cable was putting out. I went over to my boss's house where he uses Dish, didn't put it side-by-side, and on the content we viewed, it was nowhere near as pixelated as DTV was.
I am sure a lot of it also has to do with the hardware that's being used too, but if that's the case, DTV needs to look into other options for HDTV before they go any further with new channels.
If HDTV doesn't look good, there is something SERIOUSLY wrong. | |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs: 
| Well, I guess direct tv can kick and scream and sue..but in reading the survey it sounds like Comcast took pains to insure it was done fairly.
Personally, I've seen hd on both satellite and cable and would have to agree that Cable's look better.
Obviously though, it's going to vary based on ones connection and provider.
Satellite does seem to provide a better overall value though when it comes to their tv packages.
Comcasts really need to come down IMHO.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! | |
| | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Well, I guess direct tv can kick and scream said by Rick :and sue..but in reading the survey it sounds like Comcast took pains to insure it was done fairly. Where did you get a copy of the survey to "read"?
The sticking point is their qualification of "65.60% of those who expressed a preference". That could be any number, even as low as 10%. Meaning that 90% really don't give a shit.
Since the actual survey has not been released, nobody knows what those percentages represent.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| Re: Well, I guess direct tv can kick and scream My post should have read.."in reading the press release from Comcast which describes the survey results, they also described how the survey was conducted and it sounds like they took pains to insure it was done fairly".
»biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070502/new0···tml?.v=1
At the bottom of their press release they described the companies that were involved.
"Methodology and Results
Frank N. Magid Associates, a leading research consulting organization, conducted the survey; Accenture, a management and technology consulting company, oversaw the technical aspects of the test; and Loeb & Loeb, a national law firm, provided legal guidance on the survey process. Participants were asked if they felt there was a difference in quality between the HD television pictures displayed on three identical, unlabeled television sets (one set displaying a picture from Comcast, one from DirecTV and one from Dish Network).
Among satellite customers in the survey, 65.60% of those who expressed a preference between Comcast and DirectTV chose Comcast, and 69.92% who expressed a preference between Comcast and Dish Network chose Comcast. Among all participants in the survey, 60.3% of those who expressed a preference between Comcast and DirectTV chose Comcast, and 65.6% of those who expressed a preference between Comcast and Dish Network chose Comcast. The survey has a 5%-7% margin of error."
Interestingly enough, when they sampled all participants and not just those who were already satellite users, the results weren't as good for comcast and actually, accounting for the margin of error..it was pretty evenly divided.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! | |
| | | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
1 edit | Re: Well, I guess direct tv can kick and scream A press release issued by Comcast does not equal a copy of the survey with all data.
The press release says nothing about how many of the people surveyed actually had a preference. That's my point. The percentages mean nothing.
It is also silent on how many Comcast customers preferred satellite.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Bridgeport, WV
clubs:
 ·VOIPo
| Re: Well, I guess direct tv can kick and scream In which DTV probably has seen the survey results and that is what they are basing their law suit on... If of all the people that took the survey, only 10% had a preference, and of that 10%, 65% liked Comcast, that is a really low number in the scheme of the entire survey.
I kind of support DTV on this in the realm of misleading information. Not like DTV wouldn't do the same thing, but this screwing around with statistics should really not ne allowed in advertising.
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FWD#: 223611 | |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| I agree with you on all your points. (imagine that.  )
Personally, I think the results really say they're just about equal. Not only do you have to factor in the margin of error and the points you raise..but really, there's much more to it than just this as I said in my original post.
Price..features..a persons individual provider..all certainly play a part in it.
I think that clearly, the sat. providers win on the price front. Comcast is flat out expensive compared to my former company they took over recently, which was adelphia.
In fact, on day one, they raised our prices.
I recently did a run down with them on the phone for their top end package and it priced out to be about 30.00 more per month than what adelphia used to charge.
And so, for me, their picture had BETTER be better to make that worth it, if i were to subscribe to it.
I see a lot more value in cable HSI than I do with cable TV versus the sat. providers. Some people however either can't have sat. equipment on their residences or simply don't want to deal with it. Cable is easier in that respect.
Anyways..to each their own.
It can go either way depending on who you talk to.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! | |
| | | | | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Well, I guess direct tv can kick and scream This is about false advertising, not who has what prices or what you perceive as value or a hassle. You said you had read the survey and tried to defend Comcast. You hadn't actually read anything but the press release, which contains the suspect claims. Thank you for at least fessing up.
Unless and until Comcast releases the full study, DirecTV is right to object in court if they see fit. That's one of the reasons for filing a lawsuit: Discovery.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| Re: Well, I guess direct tv can kick and scream I inadvertently omitted the word "results" from my original post...which should have read
"but in reading the survey (results) it sounds like Comcast took pains to insure it was done fairly. "
I would hardly deem that as being something that needed "fessing up" to.
Instead, it needed a simple clarification...which I did.
Also, contrary to your statement, I did not "defend" comcast.
I said that PERSONALLY, i've seen both and TO ME..Cables did look better. Which it did.
BUT..I added..that "obviously though, it's going to depend on ones provider".
Furthermore..I went on to support SATELLITE..instead of cable by saying that it does seem to be "the better value".
That's hardly a glowing commentary on Comcasts overall TV service versus satellites.
I'd hardly call it "false advertising" though. Even from a technical aspect, it's commonly known that satellite is compressed more than cables HDTV.
Why wouldn't cables picture then be better, at least on a technical basis?
Perhaps some can see that, and others can't.
The times I've viewed satellite, I could.
I don't think that DirectTV will be winning this suit.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! | |
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LeftOfSanity
join:2005-11-06
Felton, DE
| Re: Well, I guess direct tv can kick and scream said by Rick :I inadvertently omitted the word "results" from my original post...which should have read "but in reading the survey (results) it sounds like Comcast took pains to insure it was done fairly. " I would hardly deem that as being something that needed "fessing up" to. Instead, it needed a simple clarification...which I did. Also, contrary to your statement, I did not "defend" comcast. I said that PERSONALLY, i've seen both and TO ME..Cables did look better. Which it did. BUT..I added..that "obviously though, it's going to depend on ones provider". Furthermore..I went on to support SATELLITE..instead of cable by saying that it does seem to be "the better value". That's hardly a glowing commentary on Comcasts overall TV service versus satellites. I'd hardly call it "false advertising" though. Even from a technical aspect, it's commonly known that satellite is compressed more than cables HDTV. Why wouldn't cables picture then be better, at least on a technical basis? Perhaps some can see that, and others can't. The times I've viewed satellite, I could. I don't think that DirectTV will be winning this suit. Yea, don't waste your breath. Ol' RadioDoc seems personally biased against Comcast, so no matter what, Comcast is a big bad corporation.
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Fighting on the Internet is like winning the Special Olympics. Win or lose, your still Retarted! | |
| | | | | | | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| But you didn't read the survey results, either. You read a press release.
Not sure what LeftOfSanity is mumbling about. Yeah I'm hard on Comcast. They deserve it for the absolute crap service they provide here. Especially when they try to hide behind "statistics".
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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pwn2009
Powdered Toast Man
Premium
join:2004-03-20
ComeByChance
| better HD image???? I thought HD programming is direct from the source, providers, sat or cable are just "rebroadcasting" the signal they get from FOX or NBC for example? Shouldn't the quality be exact same? Isn't 1080 lines 1080 lines, how is one better than the other? | |
| | 
embj
Premium
join:2003-09-12
Fayetteville, NC
clubs:
| Re: better HD image???? The cable/satellite companies compress it, so it doesn't look as good as what is being broadcast. The best HDTV picture is what you can get over-the-air with an antenna. It's simply amazing about the difference. The sound/picture quality from Time Warner down here is pretty good, but the quality you get from an antenna is better. The picture seems so much sharper. | |
| | LoftyDan
join:2002-10-22
Victoria, BC | The only company that does that, that I'm aware of, is Verizon with FiOS TV. Other companies, including cable down sample the source to fit the available bandwidth. | |
| | 
cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
| Sattelite resamples it to HD-Lite, explained here:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Lite
Downsampling on "1080i" signals only; 1920x1080i can be downsampled to 1440x1080i or 1280x1080i, with a corresponding reduction in transmission bandwidth. In contrast, over-the-air (ATSC) broadcasts of 1080i are fixed at 1920x1080. Temporal (frame-rate) reduction has not been attempted yet, as it unacceptably changes the character of motion video sequences.
Of course Comcast is going to have better PQ. It's not rocket science. Plus I've looked for myself, and agree, Comcast's HD was much better than Direct TV.
DirecTV is a bunch of hypocrites. I can't believe they are suing cable after they were insulted that TWC sued them. | |
| | 
paker
@mindspring.com
| said by pwn2009 :I thought HD programming is direct from the source, providers, sat or cable are just "rebroadcasting" the signal they get from FOX or NBC for example? Shouldn't the quality be exact same? Isn't 1080 lines 1080 lines, how is one better than the other?
The only way to get pixel free satellite reception is with a C-Band satellite system. It gets what the DBS and cable company gets before the signal is compressed and sent out. | |
| 
Lumberjack
Premium
join:2003-01-18
Newport News, VA
| Hmm First, the study would just be a count of opinions. Its doubtful that the firm doing the study is going to lie about what people say. In fact had it been reversed Comcast would have not published it vs. lie about it.
Second, I've heard that DTV does compress down to a lower quality. So technically it's possible that DTV is lower simply because it has a smaller pixel count and dithering/stretching.
Third, a lot of the picture quality goes into the equipment. I remember when I had Cox digital cable it looked nice and crisp (STV vs HDTV) and then I added a TiVo and bam easy to spot pixels blocks because MPEG-2 compression. Had the study been done with a crappy HD box or the TiVo version for DTV and best of line for cable then that might have merit for a suit. Even my older TiVo HD-DVR from DTV was pixel-ed like that. The new one seems to be a little better and HD looks great on my TV.
It's neat watching them fight over this. I wish they'd just hurry up and bring what they yap about to the table so the mass market can make a decision vs studies, random opinions, etc...
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»www.fairtax.org | |
| | njcellfreak
join:2006-12-28
Union City, NJ
| Re: Hmm LMAO!!! this is the best news I heard all day!
DTV suing Comcast??? BOO HOOOO HOOO WAAAA WAAAAAAAAAA. Well if DTV would get off their collective a$$es and stop using this HD-Lite B.S. then maybe they wouldn't have this problem!! The suit has no merit and if anything, people should be suing DTV for their false advertising of HD when it's really HD-Lite. Now theres a lawsuit that does have merit.
You don't sue another company due to their competitive practices. It's called competition. DTV has to learn that we wont settle for HD-Lite and their overly compressed SD channels. F*CK YOU DTV. STOP USING HD-LITE!!!!!!!! STOP OVERLY COMPRESSING YOUR CHANNELS!!! SD looks like $hit too. QUALITY NOT QUANTITY! I hope the judge laughs the case out of court. This is a hoot! | |
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Lumberjack
Premium
join:2003-01-18
Newport News, VA
| Re: Hmm said by Mike :I wonder how much money is being held back from network upgrades that is going into the lawsuit budget. None.
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»www.fairtax.org | |
| | rahvin112
join:2002-05-24
Sandy, UT
| There's lies, lies and damned lies.
There are also liars, statisticians and politicians.
Those who know anything about statistics know that the numbers can be twisted to say anything, and that twisting is often what makes it apparent that they are misleading the audience. As pointed out already, the study could have been 10 people with 7 expressing no opinion and 2 saying Comcast is better than Satellite. AND the two that said that about Comcast could have been Comcast's CEO and Chairman for all we know about the survey.
If you are intelligent you don't believe statistics unless you trust the source 100% or you can review the study yourself to check things such as if the method was biased, the questions were loaded or even if it's a statistically significant sample. | |
| | 
dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by Lumberjack :Second, I've heard that DTV does compress down to a lower quality. So technically it's possible that DTV is lower simply because it has a smaller pixel count and dithering/stretching. They not only compress the stream they also downrez it, thats why it looks so bad. its whats known as "HD-LITE".
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
|
No to ESPN
@sbcglobal.net
| If you can, Get an Antenna! If you are within the 40 or so mile radius of a transmission tower try a set of rabbit ears and an amp. Remember the higher the better. It is amazing how good the picture is. However, when the weather turns bad, as recently here in Houston, the signal goes bad for a bit and then recovers.
If you don't live close enough then I would be interested to see what is the best. My brother in law has Direct TV with HD and his picture is not that bad but it is a CRT type HDTV about 38 inches in size. It appears that his TV processes out some of the noise. To really see something a 50+ inches of LCD would be useful. I know that in bad weather the cable will go out for a while (no connection to TVs but use RoadRunner). Interesting thing is that Houston is now Comcast instead of TW. I wonder if things will improve, degrade or remain the same. | |
| | 
JeepMatt
Delaware Fios
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Wilmington, DE | Re: If you can, Get an Antenna! Verizon should run this ad - because after witnessing all 3 sources - FIOS TV's HD picture is the best of all of them. Hands down.
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"ONE team - ONE city - ONE dream!!" | |
| fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| The new future.. Business needs to keep their marketing out of the court system. This is where it goes too far.
Time Warner sues DTV, DTV wants to sue Comcast... what's next? Comcast sues Dish because Dish claims they have the most HD even though comcast says most of it sucks?
I think the people should sue big business for abuse to the system.
The mere fact that DTV wants to sue someone over a "survey" that was "allegedly" conducted opens up yet another whole new breed of sue crazy corporations. IF this goes to court, and IF this has a judgment in favor of InDirectTV, then ANYONE that conducts a survey of their own should watch out.. because if the person or entity who is not favored doesn't like the outcome, they'll just sue.
I've said this in MANY posts in the past.. society today has TOTALLY lost it's mind. Unless and until things change, society will continue to head in that same spiraling direction right down the poop shoot.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy..." | |
| | rahvin112
join:2002-05-24
Sandy, UT
| Re: The new future.. Misleading and downright false advertising is a serious problem in this country since the FTC stopped enforcing anything as a result of the current administrations policy of head in the sand method of enforcement.
I would personally love to see a hundred of these brought to court, maybe it would cause enough uproar that the FTC would get off their asses and actually start fining companies for lying or misleading advertising. Hell I heard a RADIO commercial for that stupid FreeIPOD scam site. Those people should have been out of business a long time ago due to FTC action, let alone running RADIO commercials that are the blatantly false and misleading.
Some of you that aren't old enough or have no long term memory might not remember what it was like when government actually tried to work to protect the people and meet the mandates that have been on the books since the 1930's. The FTC actually used to fine companies for misleading or false advertising (except for Tobacco).
I actually think it's obscene that people think it's ok to get up on the public airwaves and lie about products or services. Remember Blockbusters no late fee campaign, where rather than charging late fees they just charged you for the whole movie? That was actually probably the only real incidence of FTC action in this administration against a major corporation. As I said earlier, maybe a dozen or so major lawsuits like this will spring them back into action.
Deliberate misrepresentation of products, deceptive advertising and false and misleading statistics should be criminally infractions by corporations and business that engage in them. In fact, persistent abuse in this manor should result in revocation of the corporations charter and license and a dissolving of the company regardless of size with all copyrights, trademarks and patents automatically passing into the public domain in the most severe of cases of deception. In fact I would also advocate short prison terms and disbarment from corporate leadership for the executives involved along with the advertising firms that participated. | |
| Eric Martin
join:2005-06-19
66308 | I wish I could add a photo. BIG DISH IS STILL KING.
DOES anyone know why they died out? Too much hassle to move the dish? Local regulations on big dish users? | |
| | robertfl
Premium
join:2005-10-10
Mary Esther, FL | Re: I wish I could add a photo. Big dish is still alive and well. We have a group of people who will never give up their big dishes. (I wish I had one)
The propaganda from Destruct and Dirt Network drew people out from C-Band
Rob | |
| Zerny
join:2007-05-04
Fort Gratiot, MI | Honestly I think as a business you shouldnt be able to publish anything with your competition's name on it. Stick to your product, instead of bashing other peoples. | |
| | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | Re: Honestly When you have no superior product features to highlight, all you are left with is bashing the competition. Pretty much has been cable's MO for years.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
| trailtreker
join:2006-06-08
Mcgaheysville, VA
| Comcast wins Depends on you area, when we lived outside of Wash DC Directv seemed to be a bit better than the Cox feed(not by much). We got tired of the city life, did very well with the inflated real estate market,and moved the family to Massanutten Va. Kept the Directv account in the suspend mode while we were moving in, had cable installed for the HSI and thought that we would get cable tv(since there is no contract) until the dish was back up. That was 16 months ago,dish is in the garage and cable is still hooked up, I did hook the dish up to compare but Adelphia/Comcast(now) HD programming and thier SD programing is far above Directv. No contract, constant equipment upgrades, equipment that you pay for but lease etc,etc and the Comcast customer service that I had you use once was more helpful than Directv had ever been in the 8 years that we were with them | |
| 
ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Then stop with the BS HD-Lite DirecTV would have a better chance if they didn't cheat their customers with HD-Lite. | |
| 
battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000 | They all Lie. Does this mean that DSL providers can sue Comcast for their "Twice as fast as DSL" campaign? Where 6Mb Cable is compared to 3Mb DSL when 6Mb DSL is available. | |
| | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: They all Lie. I think that's pretty much a given, unfortunately. They always qualify any claim (there is a battery of lawyers these ads have to pass through) with enough obscuring language to make the claim itself meaningless. But, the headline impact remains. That's how negative advertising works...unringing the bell is impossible.
Funny part is when they advertise something they can't provide, which is the case in this system. They can't even hit six megs or provide any HD content. My 6016/768 DSL and OTA HD antenna, on the other hand, are solid performers.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
| | Finger2208
join:2001-04-07
Lindale, TX
| I'm presently using DirecTV and a 40' antennae for HD/SD reception. Really I have more issues with the antennae HD reception than I do with DirecTV. Not that the quality on the antennae isn't good, but on some channels I do get the occasional "freezing" with pixels. I don't get this with the satellite programming.
One thing to keep in mind in antennae reception is that not all channels broadcast "over the air" are output in 1080i. CBS and NBC do output at 1080i, while Fox and ABC output at 780p over the air.
The only real side by side comparison I have, same channels on both antennae and satellite, are pro football games in the Fall. When watching my favorite team I can watch on Fox on either the antennae or on the satellite via NFL Ticket Superfan. I always watch on the satellite because the picture is slightly sharper and I never get the random freezes with pixels. It's always great!
I have no way to compare Comcast versus DTV. However, my next door neighbor has Suddenlink HD (formerly Cox). I can say that my picture on the satellite is always better than his! I can't honestly say what Suddenlink is outputting at. We also have different TV's (his is DLP....mine is LCD). I can say that his SD reception is absolutely horrid!! Many times his colors in SD aren't correct, and it's almost unwatchable. It is so bad that he is switching to DTV this Fall. It was that way with Cox, so I'm not sure if it's a Cox/Suddenlink issue, a TV issue, or a cable issue, or what. I just know he's not very happy with what he's getting. Cox/Suddenlink have been out countless times to work on it, with no success.
On the pixels some of you are experiencing on DTV-HD. I don't have Tivo, so have nothing to offer there. But you should check the signal strength you are getting on each satellite, depending on what dish you have (oval 3 or 5). You really need to be at 95% or higher on each satellite for HD, as it is much more sensitive than SD....digital or analog. Mine are all at 98 to 100%, and I rarely ever have any pixels going on.
BTW....I do not use DTV for internet.....cable here baby!! | |
|
ill_sue
@rr.com | Cool! So now we can sue someone for having a better product!
I'm calling my layer right now. I should be able to win millions in damages. | |
| | 
brooklynman4
join:2004-09-07
Brooklyn, NY | Re: Cool! Lets all sue for bad service and fals advertisement lol. | |
| 
Rob A
Same Old Jets
Premium
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ | DTV>Cable That is all.  | |
| | 
BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: DTV>Cable said by Rob A :DTV>Cable That is all. HD>HD Lite | |
| JMoss
join:2007-05-11
Monroe, VA
|  Beware of DTV's Small Print
I agree that their picture quality is somewhat better than cable but I'll never deal with them again, they are just too greedy for me. | |
| | wayne8888
join:2005-10-16
Baltimore, MD
·XOHM WiMAX
·Cavalier Telephone
| Re: Beware of DTV's Small Print I have had one year of Comcast HD (May 2005-May2006) and one year of Dish HD (May2006-Present). I don't see a huge difference in picture quality. I think but would not bet my life on it that Dish is slightly better. One thing for sure, though Dish has the most HD stations. I am looking at 32 national HD stations and 6 more local HD stations (via off air antenna). I still have Comcast for HSI (you can bundle HSI with limited basic which costs $9.66 to save a little compared to unbundled HSI). From what I hear Verizon FIOS may be the true picture quality champion (SD and HD) but although they are in all the counties surrounding the city of Baltimore, we won't see FIOS for at least a couple of years inside city limits (Cherry pickers that Verizon is). I'll just make do with my Dish (love it ) Comcast high speed internet (love it too) ViaTalk VOIP (love it to death) and my Cingular (ATT) mobile service ( barely tolerate it).
Wayne | |
| | | JMoss
join:2007-05-11
Monroe, VA
| Re: Beware of DTV's Small Print Sorry, I should have been more specific with my comments, I was refering to DirecTV. Don't have any experience with Dish Network. Might give them a look later on but again, I'm going to avoid DirecTV like the plague! Don't need any more of their abuse! | |
| |
fuziwuzi
Not born yesterday
Premium
join:2005-07-01
Atlanta, GA
| said by JMoss :If you choose to go with DTV BE SURE to read the small print in their equipment lease agreement! If you disconnect early they will RAPE you in disconnect charges. Also, their DTV DVR is about as cheaply manufactured as a DVR can get. Reboots, looses recorded shows and takes DAYS to reload the program guide. I agree that their picture quality is somewhat better than cable but I'll never deal with them again, they are just too greedy for me. You're describing Comcast cable. The DVR they provide is incredibly unreliable, reboots frequently, takes forever to get a measly 3 days worth of guide data, might or might not record the shows you want... Plus, Comcast charges a disconnect fee and will "rape" you if you try to disconnect while still under one of their promotional contracts. | |
| | comp
Premium
join:2001-08-16
Concord, NC
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by JMoss :If you choose to go with DTV BE SURE to read the small print in their equipment lease agreement! If you disconnect early they will RAPE you in disconnect charges. Also, their DTV DVR is about as cheaply manufactured as a DVR can get. Reboots, looses recorded shows and takes DAYS to reload the program guide. I agree that their picture quality is somewhat better than cable but I'll never deal with them again, they are just too greedy for me. I dont know what you are talking about. My HR20 is the best DVR i have ever had. Destroys that POS Motorola crap comcast used. | |
|
maynardjames
@rr.com
| compressed Compression is the real problem for me. The HD content is super nice on cable here in nyc. The 90% of the NON HD channels svck. They squishy the pic quality with 6-1 8-1 compression to fit the content. The new DOCSIS hopefully opens up much needed bandwidth for less compression and as more HD content is added...However, in the meantime, Cable is leaning more towards a OnDemand service for less used content freeing up bandwidth for whatevers down the road not excluding more internet bandwidth.
I can't speak much for DTV Dish | |
|
MrBaron
@comcast.net
| Comparison I bet most people couldn't tell the difference in quality UNLESS they did a side by side comparison. If you run from your house to your neighborers who has a different TV and provider, I think it would be very hard to tell which is better. I think the argument is moot. | |
| | bman212121
join:2005-06-09
| Re: Comparison Agreed. Even using the same tuner (Samsung DTB-H260F) and having an A/B switch with one side OTA the other Comcast, I couldn't find a difference in the PQ. It is hard to say what DTV looks like compared to Comcast, but I would imagine neither are going to touch the picture of an HD-DVD/Blu-Ray disc. | |
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DirecTV Sues Comcast Over HD Claims
DirecTV will never win this type of lawsuit
