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Just when I thought DTV couldn't sink any further.......Maybe they should just merge with Time Warner instead. Then they could bill us per viewing, and per gigabyte. | |
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| tomkb Premium Member join:2000-11-15 Tampa, FL |
tomkb
Premium Member
2008-Aug-7 12:11 pm
Re: Just when I thought DTV couldn't sink any further.......What ever happened to ala-carte subscriptions. Maybe a merger should only be considered if we can buy our channels one by one. | |
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| | burner50Proud Union THUG Premium Member join:2002-06-05 Iowa |
burner50
Premium Member
2008-Aug-11 8:48 am
Re: Just when I thought DTV couldn't sink any further.......said by tomkb:What ever happened to ala-carte subscriptions. Maybe a merger should only be considered if we can buy our channels one by one. Because al-a-carte would cost you the same or more monthly. Simple concept really... | |
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Rob_ Premium Member join:2008-07-16 Mary Esther, FL |
Rob_
Premium Member
2008-Aug-6 3:33 pm
no more satellite radio competition, why not tv?xm and sirius are now one company, why can't dish and direct.
it's all about pushing the little folks (us) wallet's even shorter and shorter.
the service fades out in the rain due to the fact the dishes are too small and, their is nothing on tv worth watching anymore.
if i want satellite, i'd get a free to air system that covers both the c and ku spectrum.. over 500 channels there and FREE
-Rob | |
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| Dogfather Premium Member join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA 1 edit |
Re: no more satellite radio competition, why not tv?Because neither satellite radio company was profitable, not even close.
Both Dish Network and DirecTV are profitable and despite the subscriber losses, profit for Dish Network is up in the 2Q as was DirecTV. | |
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| | Ammler Premium Member join:2005-04-19 Pittsburgh, PA |
Ammler
Premium Member
2008-Aug-6 4:08 pm
Re: no more satellite radio competition, why not tv?I'm not buying that. I believe the same argument Sirius and XM used to merge (competition from terrestrial radio, CDs, MP3s, etc.), can be applied here as well (competition from cable, terrestrial tv, internet, iTunes, dvd, blue-ray, etc.). | |
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| | | Dogfather Premium Member join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA 1 edit |
Re: no more satellite radio competition, why not tv?Satellite radio has much more competition from far more independent sources that DBS has. And unlike satellite radio, DBS is highly profitable and leads their industry in content, price and service.
As far as mobile competition, they again can't be compared because of the cost of movies and the listening/watching patterns of people.
In general, you will listen to the same song over and over and over again while there are few if any individual movies you will watch that many times. So for the $1 you may pay for a song, you get far more value and it's far more competitive than an $8-$15 DVD you may watch a few times. | |
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SliiyBoy to Ammler
Anon
2008-Aug-6 7:52 pm
to Ammler
said by Ammler:I'm not buying that. I believe the same argument Sirius and XM used to merge (competition from terrestrial radio, CDs, MP3s, etc.), can be applied here as well (competition from cable, terrestrial tv, internet, iTunes, dvd, blue-ray, etc.). I totally agree with them. Let these two merge as well. This would give the cable companies real competition for a change. | |
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not to Ammler
Anon
2008-Aug-6 7:53 pm
to Ammler
said by Ammler:I'm not buying that. I believe the same argument Sirius and XM used to merge (competition from terrestrial radio, CDs, MP3s, etc.), can be applied here as well (competition from cable, terrestrial tv, internet, iTunes, dvd, blue-ray, etc.). so much Not so much, xm and sirius used am/fm as their reason yes, however when they tried this merger in 01 they used Cable TV and terrestrial tv and it got shot down, chances are FCC isn't going to let them happen, remember terrestrial tv doesnt get you PPV and HBO and the sorts, and people who live in areas were there isn't cable (yes there are still these places) Are aloud to have a choice in who they pick, remember these are the only 2 players in the park on this one, and a monopoly will screw these folks out of a choice of who has got the best deal. | |
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| | DaveDudeNo Fear join:1999-09-01 New Jersey |
to Dogfather
said by Dogfather:Because neither satellite radio company was profitable, not even close. Both Dish Network and DirecTV are profitable and despite the subscriber losses, profit for Dish Network is up in the 2Q as was DirecTV. If Dish and Direct are profitable and sustainable they shouldnt be allowed to merge. Satellite radio wasnt and it needed to merge to survive. Why doesn't Dish buy Sirius XM ? | |
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| | | Dogfather Premium Member join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA |
Re: no more satellite radio competition, why not tv?said by DaveDude:Why doesn't Dish buy Sirius XM ? I doubt Mel would be that interested. Sirius XM now has more subscribers than any company other than Comcast. | |
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| | | | DaveDudeNo Fear join:1999-09-01 New Jersey |
Re: no more satellite radio competition, why not tv?wait read this ! dang » www.fmqb.com/article.asp ··· pid=1314
Would Mel Sell Sirius XM Radio? August 6, 2008 In a new interview with the New York Times, Sirius XM CEO Mel Karmazin floats the idea that once the merged satcaster turns a profit, he could flip the company and sell it off. Karmazin says that his goal is to turn Sirius XM into a profitable company, which could happen in just a year or two, "then we can argue about what the company is worth."Karmazin suggests that he could then sell off the satcaster once it is profitable. "Im not a visionary; Im an operator, he told the Times. "And Ive been a seller. The bankers all want the next transaction." Discussing the upcoming cost cutting at the merged satcaster, Karmazin said he aims to cut approximately $400 million in annual costs and half-jokes that "When I became the CEO of CBS, the first thing I did was sell the artwork." Karmazin also discussed the recently completed merger, saying that the outcry from terrestrial radio and the NAB against it was "the best thing that happened," because it proved his argument that satellite radio was indeed their competition.
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| | | | | Dogfather Premium Member join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA 1 edit |
Re: no more satellite radio competition, why not tv?Crap. Hopefully the next company won't ruin it like Infinity got ruined with the lame Free FM and Jack FM cookie cutter formats. | |
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| | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2 Zoom 5341J
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to DaveDude
said by DaveDude:If Dish and Direct are profitable and sustainable they shouldnt be allowed to merge. Hmmm. SBC and Bellsouth was profitable. They merged. Citi merged with Travellers.... etc etc. I don't think profitable is really a standard they use. They weigh in on competition. A merger of DBS would create one provider for rural subs--- not so good.... *but* DBS is facing STRONG competion from Telco and Cable offerings that they have a hard time competing with due to the fact they cannot offer other services to sweeten the pot. (IE Bundles.) A stronger DBS competitor here would be good for these consumers. SO, the argument could go either way. | |
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| | | | CorydonCultivant son jardin Premium Member join:2008-02-18 Denver, CO |
Corydon
Premium Member
2008-Aug-6 6:45 pm
Re: no more satellite radio competition, why not tv?I don't see how a merger would do much of anything to change your analysis. The DBS company would still face competition from cable (and more and more, telcos).
Sure they could save some money by eliminating positions. Sure they might make a bit more by putting more of a squeeze on rural customers who have nowhere else to go.
But they still will not be able to offer a viable bundle alternative and would end up getting squeezed by triple play companies who can. | |
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| | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2 Zoom 5341J
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KrK
Premium Member
2008-Aug-6 6:49 pm
Re: no more satellite radio competition, why not tv?The advantages I see are:
1) Bandwith. They would gain control of both companies satellite spectrum. Result: They could dump duplicate services and use the bandwidth to bring more channels, more HD, less compression, etc etc
2) Numbers of subscribers. With a larger group of subscribers, it gives them more clout with the content providers--- ie puts them in a better position to negotiate on prices. If they can keep programming costs lower, then they can compete better on price. (And still remain profitable.) | |
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to KrK
DirecTV does have bundles of a sort; they have partnered with Verizon (Triple play - phone, DSL and DirecTV). But it's true that won't last long-term; Verizon only uses it as a stopgap measure to prevent subscriber loss to the cable companies. Once FIOS is expanded to a certain coverage percentage we can look for Verizon to end their partnership (and customer discount). From what I've heard from Verizon contacted call center employees, they've already made the bundle an "honor do not offer" deal. | |
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| | | fiberguy2My views are my own. Premium Member join:2005-05-20 |
to DaveDude
Profitability has nothing to do with it. There is competition issues at hand.. They have cable and phone to compete with, and sometimes small muni systems. | |
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| | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK |
to Dogfather
Is DTV finally making money? It lost money for years. | |
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| | | Dogfather Premium Member join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA |
Re: no more satellite radio competition, why not tv?said by KrK:Is DTV finally making money? It lost money for years. This is according to news items about their latest results "profit up 10%". Dish Network's profit was up 50%. | |
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to Rob_
said by Rob_:the service fades out in the rain due to the fact the dishes are too small and, their is nothing on tv worth watching anymore. I have to disagree with the first part. I've been with DirecTV for almost 7 years now. I have no shortage of complaints about various things, but as long as the dish is PROPERLY lined up, you won't get rain fade. I had mine working during 2 hurricanes back in Florida, and only lost the signal for about 30 minutes in each. I've had 0 problems here in Austin. Mind you I said when the dish is PROPERLY lined up, and most of the DTV sub-contractors don't bother to make sure it actually is. They shoot for a signal of any kind on a clear sunny day, and call it a day. I will agree however that there is little worth watching these days, certainly little worth paying the price for. | |
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Re: no more satellite radio competition, why not tv?I second that. I rarely lose Directv. The only times I can remember were a hurricane and a couple of bad electrical storms. For that matter my power goes off about every month or two so directv is more reliable than my power company. | |
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| | | rawWar Eagle Premium Member join:2001-01-17 Madison, AL |
raw
Premium Member
2008-Aug-6 5:46 pm
Re: no more satellite radio competition, why not tv?said by Corehhi:I second that. I rarely lose Directv. On the flip side, my parents had to drop DirecTV because their house backs up to thick woods in the due southwesterly direction (from Knoxville, TN), and eventually the tree growth got so thick that signal strength was in single digits on a clear sunny summer day. Sad day indeed, because they certainly enjoyed it while it lasted. | |
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| | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2 Zoom 5341J
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KrK
Premium Member
2008-Aug-6 6:19 pm
Re: no more satellite radio competition, why not tv?There's some options. Relocate the dish to the front of their property, or, elevate the dish so it can see clearly above the trees. I had trees behind my property for years, and I found that if I checked around the property there was several places I could get clear signal... surprisingly. I went with a TV antenna style pole on the roof with the dish mounted to the pole. It gave me elevation that I needed and still the dish was out of sight. | |
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| | | | | rawWar Eagle Premium Member join:2001-01-17 Madison, AL |
raw
Premium Member
2008-Aug-6 9:21 pm
Re: no more satellite radio competition, why not tv?The dish was on the front of the property, and the trees shoot up a solid 40-50 feet over the house (excluding the older, taller trees). The pole thing might have worked... if it were 100 feet tall. The back yard is all of 30 feet deep. When I say backs up to woods, I mean it in the most literal sense possible. Thanks for the tips, though. | |
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| | | | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK
1 recommendation |
KrK
Premium Member
2008-Aug-6 10:38 pm
Re: no more satellite radio competition, why not tv?Chainsaw... | |
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| KrK |
KrK to Rob_
Premium Member
2008-Aug-6 6:09 pm
to Rob_
I've never had the rain fade issue on Dish. I've only had the "extremely severe thunderstorm outage" and even then I think the longest outage I remember was 15 minutes.
Course, your Dish needs to be perfectly aligned for strong signal strength. I knew some friends who had DirecTV and their dish was mounted on the corner rail of a large wooden deck. I think the deck would move a little with heating and cooling, wood swelling, etc. They had signal problems a lot. They went with cable eventually though. | |
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| | cbrigante2Wait til Next Year Premium Member join:2002-11-22 North Aurora, IL |
Re: no more satellite radio competition, why not tv?I wonder if rain fade happens more up north? I have my dish on my roof with a very clear view of the southern sky and I get rain fade for just a minute or two every time a heavy lightning or rain storm passes the sky to the south. | |
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| jt4 @comcast.net |
jt4 to Rob_
Anon
2008-Aug-6 6:58 pm
to Rob_
its not free. you have to buy all the equipment. so you still pay for it. | |
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| fiberguy2My views are my own. Premium Member join:2005-05-20 |
to Rob_
Satellite isn't its only competitive market, rather, satellite (both of them) are considered to be "video providers" period. If that wasn't the case, then they're going to have some hard times explaining what happened in the L.A. area.. In LA, satellite penetration raise to a percentage of that of cable to allow for cable to escape the rule of franchise as they were no considered a monopoly.
Satellite is either a video provider, or not... to clear it up, satellite IS simply another video provider. I don't care to see the two merge, however, in reality, people talk like satellite is in it's own classification when it's not. | |
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to Rob_
heya rob,
cant say about the fta stuff but you know, dish size has nothing to do with service fade. if you got crappy service, it is due to the fact that your technician was lazy, dumb, or high. take your pick. either way, your dish was not peaked in correctly. | |
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| | fiberguy2My views are my own. Premium Member join:2005-05-20 |
Re: no more satellite radio competition, why not tv?HUH? Dish size DOES affect rain-fade. Larger dishes, while do experience rain fade on a lower powered sat system, larger dishes will sustain longer. However, I've installed and maintained MANY dishes as a vendor and had signal in the 90's that still experienced rain fade.
Also, with the drive to install more and more dishes, techs are allowed to install dishes with laxed conditions.. I've seen dishes pointed right through trees, and I've seen them pointed at another building, all with reduced signal.. can they install with lower signal levels now over the past? yes.. do you see more fade? yes.
Another example.. in Iowa, a friend's house, he has Dish Net.. if you've ever been in rural Iowa there really isn't anything to block the line of sight. Even with mid 90's, a SLIGHT, and I do mean slight, rain storm has caused fade.
Lazy, dumb or high.. that's a hiring issue.. but it's not 100% of the reason rain/snow (we'll just say storm) fade happens. | |
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to Rob_
said by Rob_:the service fades out in the rain due to the fact the dishes are too small Wha-what? Have the system re-installed. Rain should NEVER cause satellite TV to go out if it's installed properly. The ONLY weather that's ever knocked out my DirecTV is snow, and that's because the snow packs in on the dish, obstructing the feedhorn. This is the biggest misconception of satellite TV. I can see hurricanes, tornadoes, or thunderstorms killing the TV, but not rain. Never. | |
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to Rob_
I've had free to air for almost 8 years now. Will never be without it again. While there are a lot of foreign channels, galaxy 10 has a pile of network TV on the KU side. | |
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| Splitpair Premium Member join:2000-07-29 Cow Towne |
to Rob_
said by Rob_:if i want satellite, i'd get a free to air system that covers both the c and ku spectrum.. over 500 channels there and FREE -Rob Good idea if you have the area to place a few 4 meter dishes. Wayne | |
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MrMoodyFree range slave Premium Member join:2002-09-03 Smithfield, NC |
MrMoody
Premium Member
2008-Aug-6 3:33 pm
Strong opposition in 2001That was then, this is now. Monopolies are encouraged.
Really though, satellite TV is no more a monopoly than satellite radio. | |
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HA! Funny that I mentioned this exact idea....In the discussion on Dish losing customers.
Either way, if these two companies want to do this, then I say go ahead...hopefully, if this happens, then it'll be a speedy merger, and not a drug out one like Sirius+XM. | |
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Dogfather Premium Member join:2007-12-26 Laguna Hills, CA 2 edits |
TOTALLY different than Satellite RadioIn the issue of satellite radio you had 2 companies that were bleeding cash and both could have gone under leaving customers with nothing. Meanwhile satellite radio had intense competition from other mobile audio providers whether it was portable music players or OTA radio.
DBS only has cable and each other as competitors in any market and in some rare instances telco and both DBS companies are doing very well. Despite subscriber losses and a sagging economy, Dish Network profits are up 50%. DirecTV's profits are up as well. | |
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| TMMerlinThe Devil made me do it join:2003-06-19 Oxford, MI |
Re: TOTALLY different than Satellite RadioI agree ! | |
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elray join:2000-12-16 Santa Monica, CA |
elray
Member
2008-Aug-6 3:47 pm
Oh GreatAnother opportunity to claim they'll "offer better and competitive service", then raise their rates after approval claiming "costs of merger" followed by "increased programming costs".
They'll claim that they compete with Cable, Fios, and U-Verse, while they wink at each other and raise rates, "because they haven't been raised recently".
Lets hope the FCC and the Justice department hold firm.
Of course, if they offered true ala-carte programming again (yes, again, remember DishPix?), I probably wouldn't mind. | |
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plat2on1 join:2002-08-21 Hopewell Junction, NY |
i don't see the pointtheir systems are so different and incompatible i don't see why this makes sense. | |
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Spin ControlI'm am certain the Charlie Ergan (Dish Network) floated this rummor to provide cover for the fact that DISH is loosing customers back to cable or others. They know it would never be approved. Again, just a smoke cloud so the stock doesn't continue to slide | |
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kfsutops Premium Member join:2002-08-19 Lutz, FL |
kfsutops
Premium Member
2008-Aug-6 4:27 pm
They waited to longThey should have been talking about this a while ago.
It won't go through because administrations are getting ready to change from Republican to Democratic. Their best chance would have been with Duh-bu-ya in the office. | |
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Re: They waited to long Speaking of ignorant posts, it's "too" not "to." | |
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newviewEx .. Ex .. Exactly Premium Member join:2001-10-01 Parsonsburg, MD |
newview
Premium Member
2008-Aug-6 4:31 pm
I wouldn't have a problem . . .with a DISH/DirecTV merger as long as the monthly prices go DOWN substantially and each subscriber has an opportunity to renew their contract at the new lower prices for a period of two years. | |
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MooJohn join:2005-12-18 Milledgeville, GA |
I'm sick of the mergersI didn't want XM. I wasn't tricked into buying Sirius equipment; I compared both and chose Sirius. I still don't want XM even if they're going to force it on me.
Same with Dish. I picked Dish over DirecTV. I preferred Dish then and I still prefer it now. I don't want some kind of hybrid rammed down my throat because some suits think it's more profitable.
If their service isn't good enough to be profitable, they should go out of business. Making some watered-down new company ruins it for everybody. | |
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GlaiceBrutal Video Vault Premium Member join:2002-10-01 North Babylon, NY |
Glaice
Premium Member
2008-Aug-6 4:47 pm
Enough!Enough with these mergers, as it is anti-competitive and anti-consumer choice! | |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2 Zoom 5341J
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KrK
Premium Member
2008-Aug-6 6:04 pm
Charlie's dreaming.... this FCC is Telco owned and operated... You really think DBS competitors would allow DirecTV and Dish to merge?
In the long run, DBS is going to have problems keeping profitable subs due to bundling deals from their Telco and Cable competition. DBS may find itself limited to only rural areas where neither cable or Telco services are available--- and this would hurt long term growth and profitability. With a merger however, they could be in a strong position to provide the very best TV service available. They need something, something compelling, to make people eschew the cable or Telco TV deal and go with Dish. The best HD, the most channels, the best DVR's, and excellent service, combined with good pricing, maybe what it will take.
If they could only offer broadband they'd be in good shape, but they really can't. | |
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dvd536as Mr. Pink as they come Premium Member join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ |
dvd536
Premium Member
2008-Aug-6 7:39 pm
Dish hackers[testers]this is definately something that people getting free charlie would hate. after the merger, dish subs would most likely go P4. | |
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What new Competition and when?I get a kick out of "there is more competition now than in 2001"
Really? Where? 3 towns in Kentucky with FIOS?
Since 2001 we have LESS competition in the Twin Cities. Time/Warner was bought out by "Satan", I mean Comcast, excuse me.
At least you could move around town.
Where is all this NEW competition?
So, assuming you don't live in an apartment and have a southern view.
2001...
Dish, Direct, Comcast/TimeWarner
2008
Dish, Direct, Comcast
Big Diff, I'm glad for the new competition. | |
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ohiyouoh
Anon
2008-Aug-6 8:44 pm
I'm starting to put on my dancing shoesHonestly I don't see that should try to survive. Merging with DTV is a last ditch effort to avoid dying. Dish has been slowly dying for a couple of years now and when they do I wil be the first to dance on their grave.
DTV is doing it right. Having been an installer Dish and DTV.... I can tell you that Dish equipment is plauged with problems. Their equipment is WAYYY over engineered for something as simple as TV and most consumrs can't operated their equipment anyway resulting in stupid service call, an unhelp techincal support group and lousty customers service.
And what I don't understand is this. Dish here in the San Fran Bay Area just sis a massive recruitment for installers citing higher than normal amounts of new subscribers. Now if that wre true why would they want to merge? Because they're dying that's why. | |
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Doesn't matter either wayI really don't care...what matters to me is I'm with Dish, I have HD through them but I can't just have ONLY HD channels..instead I'm pushed into buying to regular packages just to have HD channels and thats damn dumb!
I only want HD and whoever or which ever gives me the channels i have now all in HD and only HD I'll jump ship real quick. Everyone needs to get out of the Standard TV viewing and jump on the clearer HD train! | |
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Re: Doesn't matter either waysaid by sava700:I really don't care...what matters to me is I'm with Dish, I have HD through them but I can't just have ONLY HD channels..instead I'm pushed into buying to regular packages just to have HD channels and thats damn dumb! I only want HD and whoever or which ever gives me the channels i have now all in HD and only HD I'll jump ship real quick. Everyone needs to get out of the Standard TV viewing and jump on the clearer HD train! What about the networks that are not in HD? What about espn classic that some times shows live sports and acts like espn3? comedy Central? Fox Reality? tcm? Fox movie channel? History International? discovery health channel? trutv? NASA? tvland? GSN? BET? G4? the news channels that not in HD yet? The non HD local channels? the local sub channels? and more? | |
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shane349 Premium Member join:2005-03-21 Delta, OH |
shane349
Premium Member
2008-Aug-7 1:02 am
welli say att buys everything and we call it even. then we can just bend over and take it. | |
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Re: wellatt has there TV over VDSL thing but you only get 2 HD streams. | |
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So whats it gonna be called then after the merger?Direct-Dish? | |
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Dish Discussing Merger With DirecTVI hope that they don't merge! That would not be a good thing at all!!! | |
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