 
Skeedatl
To Provoke and Annoy
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | If you can't beat them... ...sue them. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·Cox HSI
 ·AT&T Southwest
| Re: If you can't beat them... Nice slant.
Ergen doesn't like to get ripped off on content--- DISH CUSTOMERS WIN. We get content, prices stay lower. DISH didn't rip off TIVO--- TIVO just got some broad patents granted on DVR features which happened to apply to DISH's DVR's that they developed on their own. And TIVO is no saint... ReplayTV, prior art anyone?
Now TIVO is free to go after Cable and Telco DVR type boxes. We shall see. And as for your expectations that DTV kills DISH.... DISH has been profitable. Has DTV ever turned a profit yet?
You know what happens when you assume...
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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| | | gopnick
join:2005-01-07
Benton, AR | Re: If you can't beat them... Exactly! I for one appreciate that Dish fights content distributors to keep the prices down while shareholders still have ROI. This is how a business OUGHT to work!
I'm paying $70/mo on Dish for what I paid $150/mo for on cable+TiVO. | |
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fred 12
@nyack.edu
| Sorta like that Satellite Radio that is slowly going in the toilet--never seen a profit and probably never will. Why? The radio in your car is free
Satellite radio rules.. TV is free too. but everone seems to have cable or satellite tv.. if you want to listen to the same old crap keep your free car radio | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | the main thing is TiVO wont go after say comcast, for one they are working some deal and two im pretty sure Comcast could just crush tivo with lawyers.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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jt44
@comcast.net | i am sorry tivo dvr beats dish dvr any day of the week. | |
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Skeedatl
To Provoke and Annoy
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: If you can't beat them... Yeah right. | |
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MooJohn
join:2005-12-18
Milledgeville, GA
·Windstream
| Tivo blows Yep, apparently only one company is supposed to be allowed to offer an onscreen guide with recording ability. I'm sure Tivo has patented nearly every button on the remote control and the order and manner by which they're accessed.
I'll take my Dish recorder over a Tivo box any day.
For my non-satellite sources, I use a multi-tuner box running GBPVR 
It's absurdly easy to get a patent -- you just need a concept, not a method!
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John M - Cranky network guy | |
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| wanderance
join:2002-07-09
USA
| Re: Tivo blows Doesn't have anything to do with the guide, has to do with the "time warp". At the time that TiVo patented it, it was a very revolutionary idea.
If you look at the history of TiVo / Dish it is pretty clear that Dish simply stole the tech inside the dev box TiVo sent to them. This entire thing is from the Series 1 days.
TiVo didn't just go after Dish because they felt like it (and not every other DVR manufacture out there), they went after them because it is obvious they ganked the tech. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Golf season has returned - hurrah
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: Tivo blows said by wanderance  :Doesn't have anything to do with the guide, has to do with the "time warp". At the time that TiVo patented it, it was a very revolutionary idea. If you look at the history of TiVo / Dish it is pretty clear that Dish simply stole the tech inside the dev box TiVo sent to them. This entire thing is from the Series 1 days. TiVo didn't just go after Dish because they felt like it (and not every other DVR manufacture out there), they went after them because it is obvious they ganked the tech. I agree. Not all patents are bogus. TIVO did create the original DVR and Dish flat out stole out. They SHOULD have to pay royalties.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Tivo blows said by TK Junk Mail :I agree. Not all patents are bogus. This one is. Obviousness is supposed to be a consideration. And TIVO was well behind ReplayTV.TIVO did create the original DVR and Dish flat out stole out. They SHOULD have to pay royalties. So says TIVO. I seriously doubt it. Ergen is not stupid. The patent is.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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| | | | Jaghar
join:2001-01-30
Painesville, OH | Re: Tivo blows How is the patent stupid? | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Tivo blows It shouldn't exist, for reasons including prior art, and obviousness. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Golf season has returned - hurrah
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: Tivo blows said by KrK :It shouldn't exist, for reasons including prior art, and obviousness. The court evidently disagrees with you. In fact now 2 courts disagree, because the appeals court upheld the trial court.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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Siryak
join:2005-11-26
 ·WildBlue
| Re: Tivo blows said by TK Junk Mail :said by KrK :It shouldn't exist, for reasons including prior art, and obviousness. The court evidently disagrees with you. In fact now 2 courts disagree, because the appeals court upheld the trial court. The court also approved a lawsuit to McDonalds for having their coffee too hot. *rolls eyes* | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Yes, the Court disagrees with Justice and what is right all the time. As for the Appeals Court, that means little because all they rule on is if an error was made in the procedure of the first trial, and don't actually deal with the issue at hand. | |
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| | | | Thespis
join:2004-08-03
Keller, TX
 ·Verizon FIOS
edit:
April 12th, @06:07PM
| said by KrK :This one is. Obviousness is supposed to be a consideration. And TIVO was well behind ReplayTV. Both companies were created in 1997.
Replay TV launched two months before Tivo.
I'll let others judge if two months is "well behind". | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Tivo blows said by Thespis :I'll let others judge if two months is "well behind". True, but prior art is prior art, and once the first DVR features were being created, the so called "Time-warp" feature becomes an obvious extension of the technology. In reality, all these DVR's (ReplayTV, TIVO, Echostar's) were being developed with similar features by different people at the same time. Nobody "stole" anything. TIVO just got the patent on a "feature" and is going sue happy.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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| | | | | | Thespis
join:2004-08-03
Keller, TX
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Tivo blows Echostar?
E*'s first DVR (they actually called it a PVR) was the DishPlayer 2400. It came out about the same time as Tivo. It was a piece of crap that ran Microsoft software and had to be babysat daily. It also had a whopping 8 hours of record time. I sold mine on Ebay for a tidy sum.
The DVR that E* was sued over was the one they developed in house well after Tivo was established with DirecTV. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Tivo blows Yes, I stated that already.... However, the feature the patent and lawsuit is based on was already in use and had been developed by other DVR's.
I'm not disagreeing that TIVO got the patent, I just think the patent should be invalidated... which of course would end the lawsuit. Unlikely to occur as well. Echostar is getting ripped off.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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| | | | | | | | Thespis
join:2004-08-03
Keller, TX | Re: Tivo blows Echostar violated a valid patent. Period.
They are not getting ripped off.
Corporations can't just disregard patent law because they think a patent should never have been given. | |
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| | | | wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Springdale, AR
·Cox HSI
| said by KrK :said by TK Junk Mail :I agree. Not all patents are bogus. This one is. Obviousness is supposed to be a consideration. And TIVO was well behind ReplayTV. If they were "well behind" replay, then how on earth did they make it to market several months ahead of Replay?
BTW, many of TiVo's patents were "stupid," hence their being lost on patent office re-examination. The "time warp" patent wasn't obvious, or they would have lost it, too.
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It's wierdo, not weirdo. Yes, I know that's not the 'proper' spelling of the similar english language word.  | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Tivo blows said by wierdo :If they were "well behind" replay, then how on earth did they make it to market several months ahead of Replay? Well, they must of used that Patented Time-Warp feature to leap ahead, ReplayTV came out in January 1999, and Tivo's first unit was April, so in a non-time warped universe, ReplayTV was first.
Once the DVR was out, and time-shifting, pausing, jumping forward to real time, etc were all out the so-called "time warp" feature becomes an obvious extension of the technology.
Echostar's first DVR's were built on Microsoft software and didn't actually get released until a few months after TIVO, however Echostar had been showing off the hardware while waiting on the software for months.
The simple fact is these DVR's were developed at the same time. Nobody stole or copied someone else's code, but TIVO was granted a patent on a feature that was common to them all, and now is going sue-happy.
It's a common problem.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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insomniac
Oh Yeah
Premium
join:2002-09-22
Naperville, IL
clubs: | Re: Tivo blows What about them? TiVo had units in customers' hands before they did. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Tivo blows ReplayTV beat TIVO to market. They both came on the scene pretty close together. TIVO was second, a few months behind ReplayTV. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Golf season has returned - hurrah
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: Tivo blows said by KrK :ReplayTV beat TIVO to market. They both came on the scene pretty close together. TIVO was second, a few months behind ReplayTV. 1st to market is not relevant to patent law.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Tivo blows said by TK Junk Mail :1st to market is not relevant to patent law. Nope.... but prior art or obviousness is... supposed to be. | |
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| Jaghar
join:2001-01-30
Painesville, OH
| I find it completely reasonable that 2 companies can create different technologies to complete the same task (Replay/Tivo).
When a 3rd party comes along and uses any of that technology, without prior arrangement, that's patent infringement.
Either way, it would be nice if Tivo and Directv had some adequate competition to keep my Directv prices down.
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We will always be much more human than we wish to be. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by MooJohn :Yep, apparently only one company is supposed to be allowed to offer an onscreen guide with recording ability. I'm sure Tivo has patented nearly every button on the remote control and the order and manner by which they're accessed. I'll take my Dish recorder over a Tivo box any day. For my non-satellite sources, I use a multi-tuner box running GBPVR It's absurdly easy to get a patent -- you just need a concept, not a method! tivo sucks. thumbs up
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
West Chester, PA
edit:
April 13th, @01:39PM
| said by MooJohn :It's absurdly easy to get a patent -- you just need a concept, not a method! You've clearly never applied for a patent. Not that i'm defending the USA's shit patent system, but I can assure you it's a little more difficult then just having a concept | |
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Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
clubs: | just great... More space junk... | |
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| dks7
join:2004-05-31 | Re: just great... God i hate the patent system. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: just great... Dish network doesn't own it. SES does. Echostar was going to lease capacity on it. Which obviously they won't be doing now. And "being retired" probably means it will be de-orbited soon. | |
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| | | papi4baby
join:2008-01-19
Callaway, MD | Re: just great... Thank you, glad to see someone here is well informed, and to repeat what you said, Dish does not own the satellite people, they were just going to lease access to it. That's is all. | |
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firephoto
KDE
Premium
join:2003-03-18
·Verizon west (ex G..
| Dish!= SES Americom owns AMC-14. Boeing claims a patent on the process that SES can use to recover the satellite and there's a lawsuit between the two involving other crap so Boeing is playing the patent card. Most likely because of this patent no one else is going to want to buy the bird and it will make someones wish soon.
Dish is not Echostar, separate companies.
The software infringing on the Tivo patent(s) was on old Dish recorders and has been updated to something different. It's also a good example of something stupidly obvious being allowed to be patented. Should we have patents on manipulating {future desirable content delivery} in a way that allows the user to enhance their {future buzzwordy named action} experience? (we will with the idiots approving patents now)
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~~This is not The Greatest Sig in the World without annoying urls, no. This is just a tribute.~~ | |
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brooklynman4
join:2004-09-07
Nyc | Re: Dish!= Dish has stated they revamped the way they record if they settle in court then there is a possibilty they can share the patent. | |
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Snakeoil
Remember Those Who Serve
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
| Correction:
»www.dishnetwork.com/content/abou···ex.shtml
quote:
Headquartered in Englewood, Colorado, EchoStar Communications Corporation is a public company with approximately 21,000 employees. The Company and its subsidiaries deliver Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS) television products and services to customers worldwide.
Dish and Echostar are the same company.
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Say no to the IRS.. Yes to the Fair Tax! This beer is for: 464th bat. 98th div. Combat engineers. Hillside Ave schenectady NY. | |
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firephoto
KDE
Premium
join:2003-03-18
·Verizon west (ex G..
| Re: Dish!= quote:
EchoStar Corporation (EchoStar), formerly EchoStar Holding Corporation, will operate two primary businesses: digital set-top box business and a fixed satellite services business. EchoStar had a spin-off from DISH Network on January 1, 2008. The Company’s set-top box business designs, develops and distributes set-top boxes and related products for direct-to-home satellite service providers. EchoStar’s set-top boxes are sold to DISH Network, but it also sold a number of set-top boxes to Bell ExpressVu and other international customers. EchoStar’s fixed satellite services business is developed using its eight owned or leased in-orbit satellites and related The Federal Communications Commission licenses, a network of seven full service digital broadcast centers, and leased fiber optic capacity with points of presence in approximately 150 cities.
quote:
EchoStar Corporation (EchoStar), formerly EchoStar Holding Corporation, will operate two primary businesses: digital set-top box business and a fixed satellite services business. EchoStar had a spin-off from DISH Network on January 1, 2008. The Company’s set-top box business designs, develops and distributes set-top boxes and related products for direct-to-home satellite service providers. EchoStar’s set-top boxes are sold to DISH Network, but it also sold a number of set-top boxes to Bell ExpressVu and other international customers. EchoStar’s fixed satellite services business is developed using its eight owned or leased in-orbit satellites and related The Federal Communications Commission licenses, a network of seven full service digital broadcast centers, and leased fiber optic capacity with points of presence in approximately 150 cities.
»finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:SATS
»finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:DISH | |
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Just Lil Ole Me
@comcast.net
| Dish Yeah baby!
Dishnetwork completely SUCKS in every catagory. Their equipment is way over engineered to simply watch TV with so many damn dishes and switches and converters and complex DVR functions, most consumers can't figure how to operate them anyway....
Dishnetwork will soon be called "Deathnetwork" as they slowly die and dissapear. And when they do (die) I will be the first to dance at their funeral.
So now all you guys can sit back and say I have no idea what I'm talking about and how wrong I am and Dishnetwork is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but.... in two years, just remember you heard it here from me first. And when it DOES happen you can sit back and say, "yeah I remember that guy sayin that". | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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sanfranson
Norm, The Enourmous Basset
Premium
join:2001-02-08
San Francisco, CA
·SONIC.NET
·AT&T Yahoo
| License to Sue Attorneys in this country call a patent a "license to sue". Like every other decision in the justice system, the outcome is determined by the depth of the pockets of the antagonists. I would guess that TiVo and DishTv have similar resources to throw at the question of ownership, so real justice may be done here after the expenditure of $10sM in attorneys' fees.
"General" David Sarnoff of RCA managed to delay the debut of television for two decades by spurious, but continuous patent actions against Philo T. Farnsworth, the actual inventor of the cathode ray scanning tube, thus ensuring the dominance of radio, whose patents were in his pocket. He caused Edwin Armstrong, the inventor of FM, (specifically, the amplification technology that made it stable and useful), to commit suicide by his unrelenting, unfounded patent suits.
This perversion of the justice system is uniquely American. It is, in fact, "The American Rule", which states that, unlike every other country in the world, litigators pay their own costs, win or lose. Everywhere else, the loser pays the winner's costs. So, if you have the money, you can prolong cases indefinitely by filing "procedures" until your opponent goes bankrupt or until everyone who cares is dead.
Guess which professional class made up the rule?
What was the topic of this thread?
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| Re: License to Sue the problem is the idea of the patent is a great thing, but today such broad patents are allowed that you could devlop something totally different in design and still get sued. i mean the edison lightbulb patent today would be filed as "Device for illuminating by electric power" basicly making sure that all forms of light bulbs would have to pony up a license or the company would get sued.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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RoguePimp
join:2001-01-31
Phoenix, AZ
·Cox HSI
| Wow! there is a lot of mis-inforamtion out there It is just amazing how many people out there claim to "Know" what is going on. How many of you work for Dish or Echostar and really know whats up?
Lets see a show of hands? Anybody.....
Many of you did state things that were correct, But a lot of you guys need to pay attention to the facts and stop spreading stupid rumors. | |
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TuPaK
join:2002-07-21
San Gabriel, CA | I love my VIP-722 Dish DVR f*** tivo, I will never purchase or subscribe to any of their products. | |
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mahermusic
join:2001-07-06
Chesterfield, NJ
 ·Vonage
| Re: I love my VIP-722 Dish DVR said by TuPaK :f*** tivo, I will never purchase or subscribe to any of their products. You won't? Where will TiVo get their future income from if you don't? Oh yeah... from the $100 mil from dish network.
HAHAHAHAHA
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Don't blame me... I voted for KERRY. | |
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| | Couch Potato
What?
Premium
join:2004-08-29
Evansville, IN
·Insight Communicat..
| Re: I love my VIP-722 Dish DVR said by mahermusic :said by TuPaK :f*** tivo, I will never purchase or subscribe to any of their products. You won't? Where will TiVo get their future income from if you don't? Oh yeah... from the $100 mil from dish network. HAHAHAHAHA lol | |
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TuPaK
join:2002-07-21
San Gabriel, CA | i'll quote you on that | |
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floydb_1982
join:2004-08-25
Kent, WA | Cables a much better choice Oh well were all better off with high definition from Comcast cable anyhow. | |
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| martyp
join:2004-01-30
Vallejo, CA | Re: Cables a much better choice Well come on folks in this day when you can get a patent for one click shopping and such . Tivo should win and dish just pay up | |
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belawrence
It's All About The Games
join:2000-08-06
Santee, CA
·Cox HSI
| Re: Cables a much better choice said by martyp :Well come on folks in this day when you can get a patent for one click shopping and such . Tivo should win and dish just pay up It's just as bad as having patents on digitizing voice into data packets and routing it over an IP based network, as in Verizon vs. everyone else.
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Obviously you're not a golfer - Jeffery "the dude" Lebowski | |
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Dish Loses TiVo Appeal and Takes Loss on Satellite
