  ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4 |  What is "Good Faith" & what is a fair price?
It was inevitable that the opposing sides in this wouldn't agree on what is a fair price. So what is the next step? The FCC getting in to fixing a price? Assigning an independent mediator with power to mandate a price?
And, of course, the inevitable lawsuits when the 2 sides don't agree.
Look for the Phillies, Sixers, & Flyers on DirecTV some time a couple years from now.
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Are you happy with your rep in Washington, DC? | |
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 | ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4 | Re: What is "Good Faith" & what is a fair price? In case anyone is interested, here is the 84 page order mandating the players involved negotiate a contract. I didn't read all 84 pages, but did do some searches and I couldn't find what the FCC will do when the 2 sides don't come to an agreement. Maybe someone else can find that info.
»hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/a···17A1.pdf
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Are you happy with your rep in Washington, DC? | |
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 gar187erI do this for a living
join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE
kudos:1 | pot meet kettle what good faith?!!? they own the channel, the building, a tea,, etc......there is no reason they need to grant another company access.....if thats the case, cable cos should have access to the sunday ticket.... | |
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| | | Re: pot meet kettle said by gar187er:what good faith?!!? they own the channel, the building, a tea,, etc......there is no reason they need to grant another company access.....if thats the case, cable cos should have access to the sunday ticket.... Go cry to the NFL. DirecTV doesn't own Sunday Ticket. | |
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| |  BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Re: pot meet kettle said by digitalfreak:said by gar187er:what good faith?!!? they own the channel, the building, a tea,, etc......there is no reason they need to grant another company access.....if thats the case, cable cos should have access to the sunday ticket.... Go cry to the NFL. DirecTV doesn't own Sunday Ticket. No but they make sure no one else can offer it. Once again DirecTv is being hypocritical. If it's ok for DirecTv to hog Sunday Ticket it's OK for them to be shut out of SportNet Philly. I have ZERO sympathy for DirecTv. fuck 'em. | |
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| | |  espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2
 ·Clear Wireless
| Re: pot meet kettle said by BF69:Once again DirecTv is being hypocritical. If it's ok for DirecTv to hog Sunday Ticket it's OK for them to be shut out of SportNet Philly. I have ZERO sympathy for DirecTv. You do realize the news story was about Dish Network, not DirecTV -- right? | |
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1 edit | Directv has nothing to do with whether it is exclusive other than ASKING the NFL to allow it to be exclusive. It is 100% up to the NFL as to whether the contract becomes exclusive. If the NFL doesn't want it exclusive then they can choose not to make it exclusive. The NFL CHOOSES to do so because that means they get more money from Directv. But, it is still 100% the NFL's decision.
Using this as a competing argument about Comcast is just wrong. | |
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| | | | axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC Reviews:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: pot meet kettle I doubt DirecTV is only asking. They are probably paying a premium to be anti-competitive.
I think this is more in the FTC's line of work. Agreements that exclude competitors should be prohibited. Since it's gone on for so long, we must need another law. It's fine that the FCC is trying to do us some good, but to me it seems out of their jurisdiction. | |
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| | |  56403739Less than 5 months leftPremium
join:2006-03-08
Naples, FL
kudos:2 | There is a massive difference between Cablevision and Comcast--who directly compete with DirecTV and Dish--withholding local sports programming from competitors than the NFL--which is an independent programming producer--negotiating an exclusive contract with DirecTV for which DTV pays dearly.
And as noted earlier, this story is about Dish Network. | |
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1 edit | You have some impressive observation skills. This is about Dish Network not Directv | |
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| | | | | said by BF69:said by digitalfreak:said by gar187er:what good faith?!!? they own the channel, the building, a tea,, etc......there is no reason they need to grant another company access.....if thats the case, cable cos should have access to the sunday ticket.... Go cry to the NFL. DirecTV doesn't own Sunday Ticket. No but they make sure no one else can offer it. Once again DirecTv is being hypocritical. If it's ok for DirecTv to hog Sunday Ticket it's OK for them to be shut out of SportNet Philly. I have ZERO sympathy for DirecTv. fuck 'em. said by BF69:said by digitalfreak:Problem for Comcast: 1. They are trying to own NBC 2. They own that sports network said by gar187er:what good faith?!!? they own the channel, the building, a tea,, etc......there is no reason they need to grant another company access.....if thats the case, cable cos should have access to the sunday ticket.... Go cry to the NFL. DirecTV doesn't own Sunday Ticket. No but they make sure no one else can offer it. Once again DirecTv is being hypocritical. If it's ok for DirecTv to hog Sunday Ticket it's OK for them to be shut out of SportNet Philly. I have ZERO sympathy for DirecTv. fuck 'em. Yes, they should sell access. Sure Dish is trying to get it for nothing but I bet Cox, Directv, etc. would pay for the channel at a fair price.
Personally, I don't get the NFL Directv thing either but Directv doesn't own NFL Ticket. | |
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| | | | | | Re: pot meet kettle There are several other important points here.
1. Sunday Ticket is a true exclusive. Only one owner (NFL) and one seller (DTV). Neither CSN Philly nor MSG and MSG+ HD feeds are exclusive.
2. Sunday Ticket is an out of market package that has zero impact on local markets. Nobody misses their local team because they can't or won't buy ST.
3. Everyone who's saying the ST should be sold to all distributors misses out on the fact that NFL doesn't want to. They want one seller to keep the price high (if they sold to everyone they'd get less in total than they do now) and to keep network affiliates from getting angry.
It amazes me how little understanding of these issues people are willing to exhibit. Comcast is using a smokescreen by bringing this into play hoping the FCC and perhaps even the courts will be just as uninformed. Something that';s not all that likely. | |
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| espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
| said by gar187er:if thats the case, cable cos should have access to the sunday ticket.... The cable companies had a crack at Sunday Ticket, but they didn't bid high enough for the NFL to grant them access. Also, it's the NFL who owns the game broadcast rights who is interested in keeping access to Sunday Ticket somewhat limited so that it doesn't erode the value of their local market broadcast contracts. | |
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| | BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Re: pot meet kettle said by espaeth:said by gar187er:if thats the case, cable cos should have access to the sunday ticket.... The cable companies had a crack at Sunday Ticket, but they didn't bid high enough for the NFL to grant them access. Also, it's the NFL who owns the game broadcast rights who is interested in keeping access to Sunday Ticket somewhat limited so that it doesn't erode the value of their local market broadcast contracts. WRONG. Cable hasn't had a chance to bid on Sunday Ticket in well over a decade. Every few years DirecTv asks how much to keep Sunday Ticket exclusive the NFL quotes them a price and DirecTv pays it. If that's the only way DirecTv can get and keep customers says A LOT about their overal product. It must really suck. | |
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| | | espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
| Re: pot meet kettle said by BF69:WRONG. Cable hasn't had a chance to bid on Sunday Ticket in well over a decade. They were in contract negotiations just last year, as this post alludes -- it's just that the cable companies didn't want to pony up a competing $1bn/year bid for access to Sunday Ticket.
said by BF69: If that's the only way DirecTv can get and keep customers says A LOT about their overal product. It must really suck. DirecTV owns the sports broadcasting market. I couldn't care less about NFL and Sunday Ticket, but for HD coverage for NHL Center Ice and MLB coverage there isn't a better provider out there.
This is a competitive advantage, no different than AT&T giving Apple truckloads'o'cash for iPhone exclusivity. Apple pitched the phone to all the carriers, but only AT&T was willing to accept the device on Apple's terms. | |
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| | | | | said by BF69:said by espaeth:said by gar187er:if thats the case, cable cos should have access to the sunday ticket.... The cable companies had a crack at Sunday Ticket, but they didn't bid high enough for the NFL to grant them access. Also, it's the NFL who owns the game broadcast rights who is interested in keeping access to Sunday Ticket somewhat limited so that it doesn't erode the value of their local market broadcast contracts. WRONG. Cable hasn't had a chance to bid on Sunday Ticket in well over a decade. Every few years DirecTv asks how much to keep Sunday Ticket exclusive the NFL quotes them a price and DirecTv pays it. If that's the only way DirecTv can get and keep customers says A LOT about their overal product. It must really suck. I don't think comcast even has the room for 15 HD part time channels and one of the NFL rules for biding was all games in HD.
And what about other cable co's SEE 2-4 HD* games a week on NFL sunday ticket from in demand. With no HD games on NBA LP, MLB EI, NHL CI, or any PPV HD events at the same time.
* Late games are HD JIP. | |
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| | gar187erI do this for a living
join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE
kudos:1 | said by espaeth:said by gar187er:if thats the case, cable cos should have access to the sunday ticket.... The cable companies had a crack at Sunday Ticket, but they didn't bid high enough for the NFL to grant them access. Also, it's the NFL who owns the game broadcast rights who is interested in keeping access to Sunday Ticket somewhat limited so that it doesn't erode the value of their local market broadcast contracts. and guess what?!?! comcast has the rights to comcast sportsnet! so they should be able to dictate who can broadcast it | |
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| | | espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
1 edit | Re: pot meet kettle said by gar187er:and guess what?!?! comcast has the rights to comcast sportsnet! so they should be able to dictate who can broadcast it Each team franchise negotiates their TV broadcast rights for their local market. There are really only 2 places in the country that this dispute is taking place:
New York -- The Dolan family owns CableVision, the Madison Square Garden Building, MSG Broadcast networks, and they own the Knicks (NBA) and Rangers (NHL) sports teams.
MSG has expanded to regional coverage including NJ and upstate NY, so they actually distribute the SD version of their channel relatively fairly, but they have been keeping close distribution of their HD channel to CableVision and cable providers who don't have a competing service footprint.
Philadelphia -- In the case of Comcast SportsNet Philly, the channel is owned 66% by Comcast and 33% by the Phillies MLB team. Comcast owns the Flyers (NHL) and 76ers (NBA), so with all 3 franchises having a financial stake in Comcast SportsNet Philly obviously they all have exclusive carriage with just that network.
So you have cable companies that own sports teams that in turn develop exclusive broadcast contracts on the sports network owned by the same parent company. | |
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| | | | | | Re: pot meet kettle But that's the issue. They don't have exclusive contracts. MSG and MSG+ are sold to Comcast, TWC, RCN and even DirecTV.
CSN Philly is sold to RCN and FiOS.
If both companies had refused to sell to anyone, they'd have a much better case for withholding the channels. | |
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| Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA | said by gar187er:what good faith?!!? they own the channel, the building, a tea,, etc......there is no reason they need to grant another company access Cablevision and Comcast don't own the ROW. If they are not willing to give fair access to the sports channels they own then they shouldn't be allowed to use the ROW. | |
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Reviews:
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·Clearwire Wireless
| Comcast Gets Away w Murder No other provider has this problem. Comcast is the only provider that gets in between this negotiating bologna. No one, and I mean no one should be able to own content and then limit it or be the ones who put a price on it.
And now Comcast is going to be able to buy NBC! Gee i wonder how much they're going to charge to let anybody else access that one. But the FCC is just going to let this go through. Ridiculous! | |
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| | | Re: Comcast Gets Away w Murder DirectTV did the same crap when Comcast was trying to negotiate for Big Ten network access. DirectTV is part owner and they tried to put the screws onto comcast. It's a constant power play both companies do this. | |
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| | 56403739Less than 5 months leftPremium
join:2006-03-08
Naples, FL
kudos:2 | Re: Comcast Gets Away w Murder What "crap" was that? I don't remember DirecTV saying Comcast couldn't have access to the network. What I do remember was Comcast whining about the price, which is hilarious considering Comcast's history of bending their competitors over.
And really, BTN? What a waste of bandwidth. | |
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| | | I hear that comcast also f* with other cable co over TCN comcast network Philly that has CSN + / over flow games on it and RCN cable just misses out on some of the games.
It's good that they only own 20% of csn Chicago or that may of been cable / comcast only as well and the other guys got CSN + games that where on CLTV (long time comcast only) and mojo HD (cable only) later TLN and comcast network Chicago 101 for CSN + 2 | |
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| | Like four year olds..... 'MOMMY MOMMY! Janie won't share her candy with me!'
'Now Janie... share your candy with your little brother.'
'MOMMY MOMMY! Janie took a bigger piece than she gave me!'
'Oh for heavens sake do I have to go over there, take the candy away from you two and make you stand in the corner?' | |
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| | NFL Sunday Ticket Directv has the rights for sunday ticket "the out of market games" and the cable companies and Dish, Directv have the rights to the local broadcasts. In the case with MSG HD and CSN. Nobody can get the access to the local broadcast. Thats the issue | |
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| | Until content owners of all types... Until Content owners of all types are forced to sell at the same price to everyone regardless of ownership the system is going to be broken.
I've said it a thousand times but there need to be Four simple rules to sell content.
1. They sell it to everyone without discrimination.
2. That there are no conditions on the purchase of other content (in other words they can buy ESPN and not have to buy every other Channel)
3. That the channel is sold for the same price to everyone. No group discounts, no exclusive arrangements, etc...
4. There are absolutely no rules on where the channel lands or how it's delivered.
As soon as Congress enacts these rules prices for all services will drop or at least level off. The single biggest reason your Cable or Satellite goes up every year is because Disney, ABC, and all the other Force the providers to buy every channel at exorbitant prices, provide exclusivity deals and generally do everything they can to limit competition between content providers.
When Comcast and DirectTV can pay for channels separately and dump channels they don't want or cost to much and they can decide themselves which packages include which channels prices will finally level off. Today there is no competition between channels because there is little to no incentive for competition. When Disney can force every provider to carry 20 niche channels simply so the provider can carry ESPN, well that's why the system is broken and prices keep going up.
Most people don't realize this but ESPN is included in every single package because Disney requires them to do so and it's the most expensive channel available. Without the restrictions Disney imposes there would be a package available from every provider without ESPN that was at least $5 cheaper a month. Not only that but it would be a fairly popular package because regardless of what the press touts ESPN's appeal isn't universal. | |
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| | | Re: Until content owners of all types... Nice little spiel, but does nothing to address the issue at hand. Comcast could still just charge $50/subscriber for CSN to everyone including themselves. | |
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| | | said by rahvin112:Most people don't realize this but ESPN is included in every single package because Disney requires them to do so and it's the most expensive channel available. Without the restrictions Disney imposes there would be a package available from every provider without ESPN that was at least $5 cheaper a month. Not only that but it would be a fairly popular package because regardless of what the press touts ESPN's appeal isn't universal. In Canada they have a la carte and theme packs. | |
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| | | | Re: Until content owners of all types... in the US they do too. It's called C-BAND. | |
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