  Camelot OnePremium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Greenwood, IN
kudos:1 | not being honest? I understand quitting, now that CBS has made Cnet a biased news source. But it seems to me Cnet has been very open and honest about that fact, so his statement seems strange. | |
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| KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | If he was going to quit, he could have told the suits he would have his team revote and then publish the original anyway. At the same time as giving his notice.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | Reviews:
 ·DIRECTV
| Re: not being honest? said by Kearnstd:If he was going to quit, he could have told the suits he would have his team revote and then publish the original anyway. At the same time as giving his notice.
Yes, it would have made him look like he had a great deal of integrity. | |
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| | |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: not being honest? Would have also cost other people their jobs as well, however. | |
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| | | | said by Kearnstd:If he was going to quit, he could have told the suits he would have his team revote and then publish the original anyway. At the same time as giving his notice.
That is a textbook definition of burning a bridge. Wouldn't surprise me if he found it hard to obtain employment afterward either.
IMHO, he handled it the right way - listen to management and then resign. | |
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| | | | | Re: not being honest? He did do the right thing, and I hope he finds work with another tech outfit (The Verge, Engadget, Ars Technica, etc..). | |
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| ecoPremium
join:2001-11-28
Wilmington, DE | Did you not read the article? CBS tried to make it sound like it was just being removed from consideration for an award when in fact it had won the top award and was stripped of it. That is not dishonest to you? | |
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| | Camelot OnePremium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Greenwood, IN
kudos:1 | Re: not being honest? said by eco:Did you not read the article? CBS tried to make it sound like it was just being removed from consideration for an award when in fact it had won the top award and was stripped of it. That is not dishonest to you?
That is CBS being dishonest, not CNet. That was my point.
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Intel i7-2600k /ASRock P67 Extreme4 /4x 4Gb G.Skill /2x Intel 510 series 250Gb SSD /3x WD20EADS 2TB /2x PNY GTX 260 /Silverstone 850W /Custom water cooler /Antec Twelve-Hundred | |
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| | | ecoPremium
join:2001-11-28
Wilmington, DE | Re: not being honest? The dishonest info was posted on the CNet website by a CNet employee.Therefore, it is dishonestly on the part of CNet. | |
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| | | | Reviews:
 ·WOW Internet and..
 ·AT&T Midwest
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: not being honest? said by eco:The dishonest info was posted on the CNet website by a CNet employee.Therefore, it is dishonestly on the part of CNet.
True, albeit coerced dishonesty / done under duress. | |
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| | | | |  elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO | Re: not being honest? "I was just following orders" was ever a good excuse | |
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| | | | | | Camelot OnePremium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Greenwood, IN
kudos:1 | Re: not being honest? said by elios:"I was just following orders" was ever a good excuse
When the order comes from the people who write your paycheck, and it doesn't require breaking the law, there is nothing wrong with following it. | |
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| | | | | | | elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO | Re: not being honest? said by Camelot One:said by elios:"I was just following orders" was ever a good excuse
When the order comes from the people who write your paycheck, and it doesn't require breaking the law, there is nothing wrong with following it. no its not you tell them go fuck them selves | |
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: not being honest? said by elios:said by Camelot One:said by elios:"I was just following orders" was ever a good excuse
When the order comes from the people who write your paycheck, and it doesn't require breaking the law, there is nothing wrong with following it. no its not you tell them go fuck them selves This sounds like the opinion of someone who either doesn't work, has never worked, or doesn't have to support or provide for anyone but themselves.
If it doesn't involve anything illegal or grossly immoral, one shouldn't make blanket judgements on how others act when faced with an ethical dilemma. The "good German just following orders" you are alluding to doesn't apply here as this doesn't involve genocide.
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Jay: What the @#$% is the internet??? | |
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| | | | | | | | | elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO | Re: not being honest? it would seem in this case at lest one editor agrees with me
and not you...
ethics is just as important as every thing else you listed
maybe you wouldnt but then not every one is a coward | |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: not being honest? said by elios:it would seem in this case at lest one editor agrees with me
and not you...
ethics is just as important as every thing else you listed
maybe you wouldnt but then not every one is a coward
One who insults others on an anonymous message board is the very definition of a coward. I was not personally insulting you.
My personal opinion is that one should stand behind the ethical choice, but I have been around long enough to understand that choices are not really that simple and that one must have food and shelter to survive, and others may be depending on you to provide that. Many people may agree with your opinion, but many will also agree with my view that everyone's circumstances are different - a decision that is right for one person is not necessarily right for everyone.
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Jay: What the @#$% is the internet??? | |
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 LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 | CBS suing Dish;makes sense to not play up product suing over CBS is suing Dish over the Hopper product. It makes sense that a CBS subsidiary not play up the product involved in the lawsuit. Whether Cnet likes it or not they are owned by CBS and have to follow corporate policy. Cnet touting the Hopper would prejudice CBS's case in court against Dish.
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A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. | |
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|  skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | Re: CBS suing Dish;makes sense to not play up product suing over Fine but don't call an article "best of CES" when it obviously isn't. | |
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1 edit | Re: CBS suing Dish;makes sense to not play up product suing over Saying something it best in this sense is a matter of opinion. Hopper or not, I don't think the title is any more incorrect. | |
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| | | skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
1 edit | Re: CBS suing Dish;makes sense to not play up product suing over Yet in CNET's opinion, hopper was THe best. | |
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| | | | ecoPremium
join:2001-11-28
Wilmington, DE
1 edit | Re: CBS suing Dish;makes sense to not play up product suing over Exactly. And this wasn't just a couple of guys deciding this. CNet sent 90 editors to CES and the award is voted on by those editors.
The award had already been issued behind the scenes anyway. Dish can now just subpoena any number of those editors and have them testify under oath that it won the best in show award and CBS corporate made them change it. That will make them look equally bad in my opinion. | |
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| | | | | skeechanAi OtsukaholicPremium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2 | Re: CBS suing Dish;makes sense to not play up product suing over CBS has a long history of being petty. | |
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| | | | | | Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA | Re: CBS suing Dish;makes sense to not play up product suing over said by skeechan:CBS has a long history of being petty. In which case, we should discard CBS in favor of superior product. | |
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| rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | Do a product's technical merits or an opinion regarding positive consumer features affect the legal proceedings that are arguably dealing not with the popularity of a product but whether or not Dish has violated their content distribution contract with CBS (sling) or Dish is harming CBS (ad-skipping)?
I'd argue that Hopper winning Best of CES could strengthen the "harm" aspect of a CBS suit because more people will want it and use it meaning greater probability for harm. | |
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| | | said by Linklist:CBS is suing Dish over the Hopper product. It makes sense that a CBS subsidiary not play up the product involved in the lawsuit. Whether Cnet likes it or not they are owned by CBS and have to follow corporate policy. Cnet touting the Hopper would prejudice CBS's case in court against Dish.
No, it wouldn't prejudice anything. The technical merits of a product don't impact its legality. If, say, I built a piece of hardware that I could attach to any ATM and then withdraw all the cash from said ATM while also disabling the security camera would be a technical marvel, but it'd be illegal as hell.
Plus, if it was sound editorial practice for a news organization not to report on any company involved in a lawsuit with their management, then any organization would have an easy way to avoid being reported on in a negative light. Don't want the New York Times to report that your company just dumped a load of toxic waste into the ocean? Then sue them for libel related to something they published in the past. Doesn't matter if there's any merit, since all you're after is shutting them up until the latest story dies down.
Let's just call this what it is. CBS didn't want the Hopper to win that award, especially not from one of their subsidiaries, so they ordered that subsidiary to vote again. Did they have the right to do that? Sure, but it was a scuzzy, underhanded move, and it's going to hurt them more in the end. I've read CNET stories since the mid-'90s, and, although I've sometimes disagreed with them, I've never thought they were intentionally biased...until now, and I really can't see myself visiting them very often anymore as long as they're owned by CBS. I doubt I'm the only person who feels this way. | |
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| | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: CBS suing Dish;makes sense to not play up product suing over quote:
Its family of writers is unbiased, focused, bright, and true. CNET will continue to do excellent good work. Of that I am certain.*
*Except our Corporate masters reserve the right to over-ride all this and force us to publish biased, untruthful, lies and propaganda. They sign the paychecks, so we'll shut up and do it.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | | | I read it, and she's either too scared of losing her job, or she has no integrity.
One of the tasks of a journalist--the most important task--is to tell the truth. Not some of the time, not most of the time, but all the time. Because, if I know you lied to me once, how do I know you won't do it again? In fact, maybe you'll do it to me more times than you won't.
For some reason, this reminds me of the Saturday Night Massacre, when Richard Nixon ordered the firing of Archibald Cox, the special prosecutor investigating Watergate. First, Nixon ordered Elliot Richardson, the Attorney General, to fire Cox. Richardson refused and quit. Then Nixon ordered William Ruckelshaus to fire him. Ruckelshaus also refused and resigned. Finally, Nixon order Robert Bork to fire him. Bork did Nixon's bidding and fired Cox. Later, Bork said he considered resigning rather than firing Cox, but he didn't, and that act tainted his career for the rest of his life.
You can talk about being honorable, but you have to walk the walk. That moment of truth may never come during your career, but, if it does, you have to face it. | |
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|  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | said by Linklist:CBS is suing Dish over the Hopper product. It makes sense that a CBS subsidiary not play up the product involved in the lawsuit. Whether Cnet likes it or not they are owned by CBS and have to follow corporate policy. Cnet touting the Hopper would prejudice CBS's case in court against Dish.
There are many products were two companies are fighting over something in the court of law over a legal matter, yet the day to day operation of the companies continue on and may legitimately praise or otherwise comment on each other. This is especially true for editorial content in journalism. | |
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| KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Just remember these words every time you see stories on the news.
Big $$$ interests always trump the truth in the USA media.
Comforting thought, eh?
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA | Re: CBS suing Dish;makes sense to not play up product suing over said by KrK:Just remember these words every time you see stories on the news.
Big $$$ interests always trump the truth in the USA media. I've noted the only times we get truth is when (a) someone doesn't want to give a cut for falsifying their stuff (price squable) or (b) a "maverick". Typically I only listen to the "maverick" news sources. | |
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|  BootesPremium
join:2005-01-28
Palo Alto, CA | Yes, but how can you trust a CNet review to tell your if a product is good or not if they'll lie if they'll lie about products corporate doesn't like? They had similar issues a few years ago when there were claims of a reviewer at their Gamespot site being fired over giving a bad rating to a game that advertised heavily on their site.
There's supposed to be a wall between the journalists and other parts of the business. The journalists are supposed to report the news with the least amount of bias possible. | |
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| | | | Re: CBS suing Dish;makes sense to not play up product suing over said by Bootes  They had similar issues a few years ago when there were claims of a reviewer at their Gamespot site being fired over giving a bad rating to a game that advertised heavily on their site.
[/BQUOTE :Those claims were verified by the reporter in question (the editor in chief at the time) early last year. | |
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 AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1 | what a joke CNET has always been biased towards their advertisers.
What a load of hookey.
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* seek help if having trouble coping
--Standard disclaimers apply.-- | |
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|  BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Re: what a joke said by AVD:CNET has always been biased towards Apple
Fixed it for you. | |
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| | ecoPremium
join:2001-11-28
Wilmington, DE | Re: what a joke  | |
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| | It's Better/Worse Than That quote:
CBS has magically ensured not only that people are talking about Hopper far more than if it had just won a CNET prize, but that they'll also be talking about how idiotic and anti-consumer CBS is for injecting itself into CNET's editorial standards.
It may also clue people in to the value of dominant media's "entertainment presented as 'news'."
Jim | |
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|  jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA
kudos:1 | Re: It's Better/Worse Than That Can we trust any news today from the mass media? Is "60 Minutes" under similar constraints with regards to journalistic integrity? I'm guessing they won't be running a piece about this any time soon. 
Even "Myth Busters" was prohibited from airing anything about RFID chips because upper management was concerned about the credit card companies threatening to pull their advertising. | |
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| | KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: It's Better/Worse Than That There is impact from who owns a media outlet.
for example when ABC News reports anything about disney, they have to close the story mentioning that disney is their parent company.
But that is also an example, if disney was doing something that would be horrible PR if it got widely reported. would the execs prevent an ABC reporter from going digging? I am guessing they certainly would.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | | | said by jmn1207:
Can we trust any news today from the mass media? Is "60 Minutes" under similar constraints with regards to journalistic integrity? I'm guessing they won't be running a piece about this any time soon.
You were under the impression that "news" presented in any form was anything more than about $$$$, naive.
News at least in the US is not about presenting "just the facts" and letting readers/viewers decide.. its about presenting ownerships bias and views on subjects, or many cases NOT presenting items.
This is not new.. its been that way for decades... If you think the Washington Post and Woodward were doing it for the public good, naive. It sold papers, and it was a media outlet which is typically biased against the party in power at the time.
said by jmn1207:
Even "Myth Busters" was prohibited from airing anything about RFID chips because upper management was concerned about the credit card companies threatening to pull their advertising.
When was this? I watch pretty religiously and follow them and don't remember this controversey... and I guess since I use it mainly for background viewing never noticed which, if any, of the card companies were advertisers...
I am not sure what the ruckus would be as in the US at least very few RFID based systems exist especially in cards.. few cards have them, and then you have to either request them and pay for them.. I see terminals for the mastercard system, but I've never seen any one use it or have a card with the RFID to use it.. Contrast with EU/UK and a many other areas they have RFID cards, and smartcards with chips embedded. In the US right now the biggest use of RFID payment and tracking (these are used for 'traffic monitoring' as well by many of the toll agencies) is the various toll prepayment transponders.
Hell VZW is blocking/blocked NFC on a nexus device, but amazingly now is allowing it on a HTC droid device... why? Because it was neutred of some offending payment program, so VZW could get a cut.
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| | | jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA
kudos:1 | Re: It's Better/Worse Than That This is not something that is too enlightening. I'm a steadfast skeptic and I'm one to always follow the money/power trail in search of an ulterior motive.
There was a bunch of noise on the internet a few years back with regards to RFID and Myth Busters.
»www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/09/03···banned/1
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| | CBS has truly fallen "And that's the way it is." | |
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| | | Re: CBS has truly fallen said by NotTheMama:
"And that's the way it is."
That probably went over 99.9% of the audience here..
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1311393600 - Back to Black.....Black....Black.... | |
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| | A Lesson This is why you don't allow so much integration. You don't think it compromises journalistic integrity?
What's funny is if CNET's reputation is compromised enough, they'll lose more money from its fall than they would from ads not being seen because of the Hopper. | |
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rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | The Media == Truth Tellers? While I applaud Greg Sandoval's resignation over what is clearly an intrusion by CBS into what little trust the public endears the press, they certainly aren't "Truth Tellers". The press is full of opinion and especially so the tech press. While writers may start with the truth, tech stories seem far more opinion once they are published. No system is perfect but never forget that most of the press isn't funded by guaranteed government funds. That means the press needs exposure to generate revenue. Exposure means ratings and ratings are often at odds with the truth.
Need an example: The Weather Channel is now naming winter weather fronts. Apparently attractive women in form-fitting attire and bald male characters that scream into a mic while leaning into hurricane force winds wasn't cutting it. They have also started a series on Deadliest Space Weather. | |
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| KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: The Media == Truth Tellers? This is why tech publications tend to favor stuff from their biggest advertiser even when its not the best available.
The Weather Channel is suffering from the same problem as many niche channels. It started off and was for a very long time doing as its name implied, the current and coming weather for 24/7/365. I am guessing though they got some new suits or got borged by a big media group who wanted to have it make more money. But I think the internet also impacted this channel, For years I remember before trips anywhere, by car or airplane the standard ritual was wake up and flip on the weather channel. today you go online.
This is why Scifi rebranded to SyFy and sold out its soul. I remember one of the new execs during rebranding stated they did it to shed the image of geeks in basements watching Star Trek reruns and cult films. Even though that is what made them famous. when the science fiction channel starts to fill empty slots with wrestling you know its done with.
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| | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | Re: The Media == Truth Tellers? After the DTV conversion, the Weather Channel also has competition from local broadcasters. In St. Louis, two broadcasters (the CBS and NBC affiliates) provide dedicated weather feeds on their extra digital streams. Within seconds, you can ascertain today's forecast and the current temperature. If I had to guess, this probably isn't exclusive to St. Louis. | |
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| | | | said by Kearnstd:
This is why tech publications tend to favor stuff from their biggest advertiser even when its not the best available.
DING! DING!
See PC Magazine...
said by Kearnstd:
The Weather Channel is suffering from the same problem as many niche channels. It started off and was for a very long time doing as its name implied, the current and coming weather for 24/7/365....... But I think the internet also impacted this channel, For years I remember before trips anywhere, by car or airplane the standard ritual was wake up and flip on the weather channel. today you go online.
I can remember twc having local MSO's put in wx stations and CG's so that it could display that wx data on the breaks, it mostly was nothing more than a NOAAWXWire feed... and thats really all twc ever was till it bought up all those shows cancelled off other channels..
As for the ritual to check twc for wx, never was mine, and never will be... as sort of a wx geek with multiple wx devices and info sources the info direct from NOAA or even WeatherMation via dialup was and still is my source.. I pull EMWIN in via internet as my local VHF retransmission got fubar'd by some dorq. Soon as I get a good setup for GOES I will pull it off sat direct.
twc suffers the same problem as local wx dolts... putting people on air to present information which needs no such puppet/monkey to present, then. With the internet even less so now..
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| | Finally the logo is appropriate! Has anyone else had the thought that after all this time, the choice of a black eye for the CBS logo finally makes sense? | |
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| | hot cakes. Well what CBS has done is increase mind-share for "The Hopper" three fold. That device is going to sell like hot cakes now. | |
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BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Should have voted for it anyway What would CBS have done, fire them? yeah the would be even worse PR than the shitstorm they are getting now. | |
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|  VanPremium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA | Re: Should have voted for it anyway said by BF69:What would CBS have done, fire them? yeah the would be even worse PR than the shitstorm they are getting now.
If it is true that this order came from the top (Moonves), then I have no doubt that he would have fired them and not given a you-know-what about the following storm, much like nothing will be done about the current one.
Anyone who has ever dealt with Les for even 1 week knows about his insane stubbornness and utter arrogance. It has helped him get to the top though....but I have a feeling something will have him fall off in the future | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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| | What about other products that CBS might not like later? So what happens in the future if there is another product that CBS doesn't like for some reason? Why would ANY company give any advertising money to CNET anymore if CBS has the ability to override CNET? | |
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| BootesPremium
join:2005-01-28
Palo Alto, CA | Re: What about other products that CBS might not like later? Advertises should love this (corporate doesn't want products of advertisers to receive bad reviews), but more importantly they want people to see their ads. It's the readers this hurts and why would they continue to read CNet if they can't trust them. | |
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| | elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO | Re: What about other products that CBS might not like later? sounds like how video game reviews work any more
pay for your 9.0 review no mater how bad your game is | |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | The Media is beholding to Corporate Masters and $$$ This is part of the reason our nation continues the downward spiral.
So called news organizations are actually propaganda arms for profit and the interests of their Corporate masters. This is why unethical, immoral and illegal behavior isn't exposed and the public gets to instead read about the Kardashians or Justin Bieber's new hair style or about other political red herrings and disinformation rather then see these corporations and their Government friends put to task. In the case of CNET you see a small example at work where $$$ triumphs integrity.
It's the modern American way.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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 newviewEx .. Ex .. ExactlyPremium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
kudos:1 | CNet can no longer be trusted How in the hell can we EVER trust C|Net after this?
From this point forward I will always have that niggling question ... Is this a real C|Net review on this product, or is this a bought-and-paid-for, under-the-table deal with advertisers & CBS?
You've lost a reader C|Net. | |
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|  TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
2 edits | I have been using Hopper for years I have been Hopping over CBS for more then 20 years. CBS could disappear of the face off the earth and I wouldn't realize it until is was reported on the news. | |
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| | And now, another action needs to be taken..... And that action is the Consumer Electronics Association needs to tell CNET and CBS that it no longer wants them giving out awards in relation to their Consumer Electronics Show. If CNET wants to be held to a high standard, then CBS needs to let the "chips fall where they may" and leave it alone. You cannot have this type of bias in awards (being so blatant) without causing some harm to the show itself. | |
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Why Does CNET Give Awards at CES?