ZoneriderZonerider Premium Member join:2004-12-01 united kingd 3 edits |
possibly for fixed wirelessBut if used for mobile it may well cause interference. | |
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JeffConnoisseur of leisurely things Premium Member join:2002-12-24 GMT -5 |
Jeff
Premium Member
2008-Oct-28 9:47 am
That's who they got?That's like someone picking Sarah Pali...err, nevermind. (C'mon, people. It's a joke.) I'm now putting up the countdown clock for whoever starts the mini thread on the obvious issue related to this story. | |
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intellerSociopaths always win. join:2003-12-08 Tulsa, OK
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oh you just wanted an excuseto show dolly's big boobs. | |
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Re: oh you just wanted an excuseand we thank you for that. | |
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| JeffConnoisseur of leisurely things Premium Member join:2002-12-24 GMT -5 |
to inteller
said by inteller:to show dolly's big boobs. And a winner! | |
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| | TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus join:2001-06-20 Cheyenne, WY |
Re: oh you just wanted an excuse You don't suppose Dolly objects to the Broad in Broadband. | |
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support from scofflaws?it's funny how the NAB is enlisting the support of all the groups that illegally use unlicensed wireless mics.
of course the people using wireless mics don't pose a threat to NAB's business like widespread, affordable broadband would. | |
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| ArrayListDevOps Premium Member join:2005-03-19 Mullica Hill, NJ
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ArrayList
Premium Member
2008-Oct-28 10:11 am
Re: support from scofflaws?said by nasadude:...widespread, affordable broadband... what? you have to be kidding... | |
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| | ropeguru Premium Member join:2001-01-25 Mechanicsville, VA |
ropeguru
Premium Member
2008-Oct-28 10:24 am
Re: support from scofflaws?said by ArrayList:said by nasadude:...widespread, affordable broadband... what? you have to be kidding... Not at all... Once Obama is elected, taxes will go up so he can redistribute wealth bring broadband to all. | |
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| | | ArrayListDevOps Premium Member join:2005-03-19 Mullica Hill, NJ 1 edit |
ArrayList
Premium Member
2008-Oct-28 10:35 am
Re: support from scofflaws?said by ropeguru:said by ArrayList:said by nasadude:...widespread, affordable broadband... what? you have to be kidding... Not at all... Once Obama is elected, taxes will go up so he can redistribute wealth bring broadband to all. considering that I don't pay income taxes(disabled vet pulling disability while I go to school on the post 9/11 GI bill » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Po ··· _of_2008) i dont give a rats ass about raising taxes. so if thats what it takes to get more competition in the broadband markets then by all means bring it on! | |
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| | | | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2008-Oct-28 11:24 am
Re: support from scofflaws?said by ArrayList:considering that I don't pay income taxes(disabled vet pulling disability while I go to school on the post 9/11 GI bill » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Po ··· _of_2008) i dont give a rats ass about raising taxes. so if thats what it takes to get more competition in the broadband markets then by all means bring it on! You might someday if you ever end up working and paying taxes. | |
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to ArrayList
said by ArrayList:considering that I don't pay income taxes(disabled vet pulling disability while I go to school on the post 9/11 GI bill » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Po ··· _of_2008) i dont give a rats ass about raising taxes. so if thats what it takes to get more competition in the broadband markets then by all means bring it on! Interesting, I was thinking that instead of raising taxes we could just make some of these sorry, so called disabled people and some of these lazy adults hiding in school ( that don't know how to use apostrophes ) get out and go to work and contribute to society, instead of just sitting around sucking it dry, then we wouldn't have to ever raise taxes. Since I'm neither I think that would be a grand solution! | |
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| | | | | fiberguy2My views are my own. Premium Member join:2005-05-20 |
Re: support from scofflaws?Watch what you say about "so called" disabled people especially in responding to a post from a self described disabled vet. For what ever reason he's a DV, they pay a lot more than any tax can do by serving in the military.. which by the way, has protected your rights to spout off like an ass as you did. Served in the military have you? (Please don't answer yes.. I already know the answer because you wouldn't have posted such trash even though I DO agree on you with point about lazy adults.)
And mods, trust me, I'm being VERY nice on this one and biting my tongue as a Iraq War 1 vet. | |
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| | | | | | ArrayListDevOps Premium Member join:2005-03-19 Mullica Hill, NJ |
ArrayList
Premium Member
2008-Oct-29 10:21 am
Re: support from scofflaws?thanks for the post brother. | |
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to callihn
said by callihn:said by ArrayList:considering that I don't pay income taxes(disabled vet pulling disability while I go to school on the post 9/11 GI bill » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Po ··· _of_2008) i dont give a rats ass about raising taxes. so if thats what it takes to get more competition in the broadband markets then by all means bring it on! Interesting, I was thinking that instead of raising taxes we could just make some of these sorry, so called disabled people and some of these lazy adults hiding in school ( that don't know how to use apostrophes ) get out and go to work and contribute to society, instead of just sitting around sucking it dry, then we wouldn't have to ever raise taxes. Since I'm neither I think that would be a grand solution! i would've thought that serving 8 years in the military with 6 of them being deployed I'd deserve some time off. forgive me for not going right into blue collar work. I kind of want to get into the white collar field myself(hence the college). I will be working. someday. If more people went to college, served, either public office or military, and then went to work we'd have a far more intelligent workforce, probably even more technically skilled. Giving someone a hard time for going to college is such a bastardly thing to do. | |
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said by ropeguru:Not at all... Once Obama is elected, taxes will go up so he can redistribute wealth bring broadband to all. At least one of the candidates is being somewhat honest about the fact that his programs cost money and that to pay for them, he will have to raise taxes on the people who dodge most of their taxes anyway. McCain will just continue the last eight years of driving the government further into debt, as evidenced by the way he talks about his budget. Just a side note, both of the candidates suck, so don't mistake me for Obama supporter. | |
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| | | | ropeguru Premium Member join:2001-01-25 Mechanicsville, VA 1 edit
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ropeguru
Premium Member
2008-Oct-28 11:00 am
Re: support from scofflaws?said by NetAdmin1:said by ropeguru:Not at all... Once Obama is elected, taxes will go up so he can redistribute wealth bring broadband to all. At least one of the candidates is being somewhat honest about the fact that his programs cost money and that to pay for them, he will have to raise taxes on the people who dodge most of their taxes anyway. McCain will just continue the last eight years of driving the government further into debt, as evidenced by the way he talks about his budget. But the fact of the matter is that it will be raise don those that hire people to work for them. When this happens, it will just force more companies to downsize and move overseas which will kill the economy even more. said by NetAdmin1:Just a side note, both of the candidates suck, so don't mistake me for Obama supporter. Afraid I have to agree with you there. Can't we just vote none of the above and start over? | |
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Re: support from scofflaws?said by ropeguru:But the fact of the matter is that it will be raise don those that hire people to work for them. When this happens, it will just force more companies to downsize and move overseas which will kill the economy even more. I have heard that claim made many times - that raising the tax rates on the PERSONAL incomes of CEOs, other overpaid execs and people with high incomes would result force companies to downsize - but have yet to see anyone prove that higher tax rates on PERSONAL income and unemployment rates are linked. I would believe high corporate tax rates might affect employment numbers, but not taxes on personal income. | |
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| | | | | | ropeguru Premium Member join:2001-01-25 Mechanicsville, VA 1 edit |
ropeguru
Premium Member
2008-Oct-28 11:08 am
Re: support from scofflaws?said by NetAdmin1:said by ropeguru:But the fact of the matter is that it will be raise don those that hire people to work for them. When this happens, it will just force more companies to downsize and move overseas which will kill the economy even more. I have heard that claim made many times - that raising the tax rates on the PERSONAL incomes of CEOs, other overpaid execs and people with high incomes would result force companies to downsize - but have yet to see anyone prove that higher tax rates on PERSONAL income and unemployment rates are linked. I would believe high corporate tax rates might affect employment numbers, but not taxes on personal income. I wasn't talking only about personal incomes. He stands to raise taxes and put other burdens directly on businesses too. That is where the issue will be in forcing them overseas. | |
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| | | | | | | knightmbEverybody Lies join:2003-12-01 Franklin, TN |
Re: support from scofflaws?said by ropeguru:I wasn't talking only about personal incomes. He stands to raise taxes and put other burdens directly on businesses too. That is where the issue will be in forcing them overseas. Spin on words, you forgot that the raise on taxes for business can be offset by keeping jobs here, good health insurance for employees, and many other tax breaks/perks for the business that would be in the same tax plan, etc. All of which their Accountant/Tax CPA will know about and certainly use come tax time. You should really read in depth of what both candidates want to do because you are just taking one part "he's going to raise taxes" and applying the chicken little sky falling effect to it. | |
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| | | | | funchordsHello MVM join:2001-03-11 Yarmouth Port, MA
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to ropeguru
TOPIC: Dolly Parton Hates White Space Broadband | |
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As opposed to the system now of redistributing wealth from people yet unborn to people living now.
That's exactly why deficits matter.
You're naive if you think your taxes are not going up; there's trillions of dollars to be paid back. Where do you think the money is going to come from? You, that's who. They'll get it two ways by either taxing you directly, or inflating the money supply and stealth taxing you through inflation. | |
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| | | | chriskern Premium Member join:2007-10-19 Hudson, FL |
Re: support from scofflaws?BINGO!!!!! Give that man a CIGAR!!!!! | |
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| | | 88615298 (banned) join:2004-07-28 West Tenness |
to ropeguru
said by ropeguru:said by ArrayList:said by nasadude:...widespread, affordable broadband... what? you have to be kidding... Not at all... Once Obama is elected, taxes will go up so he can redistribute wealth bring broadband to all. Unlike McCain right? I mean in order to give people too "poor" to get their own health insurance a $5000 government check for health insurance he's going to tax the insurance premiums of those that currently get their insurance through their job. Not only is that redistributing wealth it's also a tax hike on WORKING Americans. But go ahead and bash Obama. | |
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| | | | ropeguru Premium Member join:2001-01-25 Mechanicsville, VA |
ropeguru
Premium Member
2008-Oct-28 1:07 pm
Re: support from scofflaws?said by 88615298:But go ahead and bash Obama. Thank you. I will exercise my First Amendment right. | |
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| | | | | knightmbEverybody Lies join:2003-12-01 Franklin, TN |
Re: support from scofflaws?Me too with my Icon. | |
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| | | | | 88615298 (banned) join:2004-07-28 West Tenness 1 edit |
to ropeguru
said by ropeguru:said by 88615298:But go ahead and bash Obama. Thank you. I will exercise my First Amendment right. Your right to be ignorant of the facts. I'm not even an Obama supporter, but if you insist calling out Obama you better look at YOUR candidate because he isn't any different despite WTF he says. George Bush Sr said in 1988 "read my lips, no new taxes" them promptly raised them anyways. So sorry if I take McCain's BS with a grain of salt. | |
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| | | | | | ropeguru Premium Member join:2001-01-25 Mechanicsville, VA |
ropeguru
Premium Member
2008-Oct-28 1:50 pm
Re: support from scofflaws?said by 88615298:said by ropeguru:said by 88615298:But go ahead and bash Obama. Thank you. I will exercise my First Amendment right. Your right to be ignorant of the facts. I'm not even an Obama supporter, but if you insist calling out Obama you better look at YOUR candidate because he isn't any different despite WTF he says. George Bush Sr said in 1988 "read my lips, no new taxes" them promptly raised them anyways. So sorry if I take McCain's BS with a grain of salt. That is why Obama is letting all the current tax cuts Bush put in place expire. So I guess some are right as he will not be raising taxes. Another spin on words WhooHoo!!! | |
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| | | knightmbEverybody Lies join:2003-12-01 Franklin, TN |
to ropeguru
said by ropeguru:said by ArrayList:said by nasadude:...widespread, affordable broadband... what? you have to be kidding... Not at all... Once Obama is elected, taxes will go up so he can redistribute wealth bring broadband to all. Ha, taken right from the Republican spin machine, well copied/pasted Republican tax plan would make more sense if they also included a top level tax CPA for free that would do your taxes every year. Somehow I don't think top companies or private business that make enough to be affected are really worried about the tax increase that much. | |
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88615298 (banned)
Member
2008-Oct-28 1:47 pm
Re: support from scofflaws?said by knightmb:Ha, taken right from the Republican spin machine, well copied/pasted Republican tax plan would make more sense if they also included a top level tax CPA for free that would do your taxes every year. Somehow I don't think top companies or private business that make enough to be affected are really worried about the tax increase that much. Obama = tax and spend McCain = borrow from China with interest and spend. | |
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to ArrayList
said by ArrayList:said by nasadude:...widespread, affordable broadband... what? you have to be kidding... naw, just dreaming. | |
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They are not illegal. These are Part-15 devices and require no licensing. | |
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| | MrMoodyFree range slave Premium Member join:2002-09-03 Smithfield, NC Netgear CM500 Asus RT-AC68
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MrMoody
Premium Member
2008-Oct-28 12:45 pm
Re: support from scofflaws?said by clickie8:They are not illegal. These are Part-15 devices and require no licensing. Incorrect. Part 15 specifically excludes the TV bands. Microphones in the TV bands technically require a license, which the FCC has not been enforcing because no one complains. Their very narrow bandwidth signal, low power, the facts that (up until DTV) it was easy to set them to an unused channel and they aren't generally used in residential areas, all mean TV interference was minimal. None of this is true of WSDs except the low power (until the WSD is hacked, amplified or connected to a high-gain antenna). | |
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| | funchordsHello MVM join:2001-03-11 Yarmouth Port, MA |
to clickie8
said by clickie8:They are not illegal. These are Part-15 devices and require no licensing. Clickie, these conflicting mics aren't the Part 15 wireless mics. These are the ones lower in the spectrum that do require licenses -- and some operators do have them, but many do not. | |
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to nasadude
said by nasadude:of course the people using wireless mics don't pose a threat to NAB's business like widespread, affordable broadband would. How does broadband compete with the NAB members' FREE, AD-SUPPORTED service? They are genuinely concerned with interference and loss of spectrum, and with good reason. As far as widespread, affordable broadband goes, this will only be it if you define broadband as wireless dialup. At best it will be a much larger area version of an open WiFi point on a university campus. It will have thousands of users crowded onto a few dozen Mb of available bandwidth. At worst, it will be another overcrowded WiFi with more range (bad), with everyone using it to try to create private links to their office, their buddy's house, etc. And if the cheap devices don't interfere right out of the box (likely), hackers will see to it that they do by using high-gain antennas, boosting power and forcing operation on interfering channels. WiMAX is far better, capable of serving broadband to all users and can serve the same purpose WSDs supposedly will. WSDs have too much likelihood of causing unsolvable problems; we CANNOT allow them. | |
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| | funchordsHello MVM join:2001-03-11 Yarmouth Port, MA |
Re: support from scofflaws?said by MrMoody:said by nasadude:of course the people using wireless mics don't pose a threat to NAB's business like widespread, affordable broadband would. How does broadband compete with the NAB members' FREE, AD-SUPPORTED service? If you don't think that the Internet competes with broadcast TV for time and attention, then you're starting the game hopelessly lost. said by MrMoody:They are genuinely concerned with interference and loss of spectrum, and with good reason. ? said by MrMoody:As far as widespread, affordable broadband goes, this will only be it if you define broadband as wireless dialup. At best it will be a much larger area version of an open WiFi point on a university campus. It will have thousands of users crowded onto a few dozen Mb of available bandwidth. At worst, it will be another overcrowded WiFi with more range (bad), with everyone using it to try to create private links to their office, their buddy's house, etc. At worst. At best it works great! said by MrMoody:And if the cheap devices don't interfere right out of the box (likely), hackers will see to it that they do by using high-gain antennas, boosting power and forcing operation on interfering channels. I can't say this won't happen sometimes, but by and large people will buy a cheap device and it will either work or not work. Only a teenie-tiny portion have the knowledge or desire to spend significant time and effort on it. said by MrMoody:WiMAX is far better, capable of serving broadband to all users and can serve the same purpose WSDs supposedly will. This is not a choice between WiMAX and WSD. said by MrMoody: WSDs have too much likelihood of causing unsolvable problems; we CANNOT allow them. Sure we can. We allowed cordless phones, and they generally worked. They even worked in several different modes. They even worked even though hackers could modify them. You're spreading worry. | |
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MrMoody
Premium Member
2008-Oct-28 2:00 pm
Re: support from scofflaws?said by funchords:If you don't think that the Internet competes with broadcast TV for time and attention, then you're starting the game hopelessly lost. You can't seriously think that a new wireless internet is going to take many eyes away from broadcast that aren't already on the internet some other way. At worst. At best it works great! There's no way it CAN "work great," it's physically impossible. It's a poorly thought out model being rammed through by companies who think they can make a killing with wide-area hotspots (maybe) and PAY portable wireless service (definitely). It doesn't have enough bandwidth available to serve the area it would cover with any reasonable broadband. I can't say this won't happen sometimes, but by and large people will buy a cheap device and it will either work or not work. Only a teenie-tiny portion have the knowledge or desire to spend significant time and effort on it. It only takes 1 guy in the right spot to cause a problem for someone else, a problem they shouldn't by all rights have to have, and with DTV won't even likely suspect the source of his trouble. How many cantennas do you think are out there being used to steal WiFi? And they had to build that antenna, with WSD they will be able to walk into Radio Shack and buy a $40 yagi. It also only takes 1 hacker to hack the firmware and release it, then every pirate wannabe on the internet has it with NO effort. This is not a choice between WiMAX and WSD. Says you. They both will provide the same service (or so the WIA claims: this is a lie of course), but WiMAX can do it much better without destroying free TV. Sure we can. We allowed cordless phones, and they generally worked. They even worked in several different modes. They even worked even though hackers could modify them. Cordless phones are much harder to hack than a computer network device (hardware vs soft/firmware), they aren't operating in the TV bands and there's not much incentive for anyone to boost the signal. Apples to oranges. WiFi already runs in some of the cordless phone bands. WiFi is hacked routinely. Luckily (or rather due to existing rules putting them where they are in the spectrum), they don't cause problems with other services, only each other. | |
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to nasadude
said by nasadude:it's funny how the NAB is enlisting the support of all the groups that illegally use unlicensed wireless mics. What I think is funny is that it's supposed to be persuasive that a small, niche use should stand in the way of widespread public benefit. I understand it's subject to debate whether whitespace broadband will be widespread. But, the potential is that it could benefit every household. That's hard to compare to a relative handful of people with a special use. Mark | |
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to nasadude
Every professional wireless microphone system I've seen is at or below the FCC limit for unlicensed broadcasting, which in that case I think is 50 mW. They're completely legal unless someone has jacked up the output above the manufactured threshold. | |
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jjoshua Premium Member join:2001-06-01 Scotch Plains, NJ |
jjoshua
Premium Member
2008-Oct-28 10:26 am
So if...If I say that I don't particularly care for Dolly Parton, does that make everything even. | |
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so apparently when money doesn't get the job done...just find the nearest sex toy (or celebrity, bonus if they are both) to seduce the politicians and other government officials to get them to vote the way you want? it is actually pretty scary how much extensive a celebrities influence can be. is a wrestler qualified to be a politician? how about a former actor/body builder? | |
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Re: so apparently when money doesn't get the job done...and if that doesn't work, the next step is to say white spaces broadband will spread child pornography - that should stop WSD in it's tracks | |
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Lortab jones
Anon
2008-Oct-28 10:27 am
Mic DouglasTell me more of these unlicensed wireless mics. I am unaware of the issue, but I always enjoy hearing of fresh contention. | |
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Nice choice of spokespersonI have to say, choosing Dolly Parton to talk about whitespace broadband is like picking Brittany Spears to warn people about the "dangers" of the LHC. Neither of them know anything about either issue, but of course clueless people everyone are going to take them seriously because they are famous. | |
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Competition is DeadThe only people who are going to be able to afford to a big wireless role out like this are going to be the big guys anyways. This isn't going to increase competition at all just give ATT and the like another avenue to deliver service. | |
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corrector
Anon
2008-Oct-28 1:05 pm
that's not a picture of Dollythat's an dolly impersonator. cripes. | |
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| MrMoodyFree range slave Premium Member join:2002-09-03 Smithfield, NC |
MrMoody
Premium Member
2008-Oct-28 2:16 pm
Re: that's not a picture of DollyLOL, good spot. | |
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Dolly just wants the best "technoogy" Technoogy? |
Either she needs to spell check, or she wants the best spectrum sensing "technoogy" she can get. | |
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Sammer join:2005-12-22 Canonsburg, PA 3 edits |
Sammer
Member
2008-Oct-28 3:37 pm
Untrue Statement by WSD engineers."While most engineers we've spoken to in the industry do admit that White Space will be tricky to implement (the initial low power of devices in particular may hamper usefulness) most agree that after half a decade of debating the idea that it's time to at least give it a shot." These are not low power devices in relation to Wi-Fi. Even 40 milliwatts at TV frequencies will have considerably more range than Wi-Fi. For their claimed intended purpose 10 milliwatts on adjacent channels and 50 milliwatts on non-adjacent channels for unlicensed mobile white space devices would probably be adequate and would certainly reduce any unintentional interference. Some of the WSD proponents have made it very clear they want all of TV channels 21-36,38-51 eventually. They won't say this but the way to accomplish that is to make sure the devices have enough power to interfere. Why is there such an insistence on such an aggressive start to WSDs? It will be impossible to get rid of any such devices that interfere once they're out there in numbers but it will always be possible to increase the power of future devices if the technology to diminish interference improves. | |
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DavePR join:2008-06-04 Canyon Country, CA
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DavePR
Member
2008-Oct-28 4:04 pm
White Space Devices won't workIn big cities there are too many TV stations to be able to find interference-free spectrum. In rural areas they would cause way too much interference to weak TV signals from the big cities. Bill Gates and Google will have to go elsewhere besides UHF 470-698 mHz. I suggest they try 54-72, 72-88 MHz. This propagates better than UHF anyway. | |
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ummmlike this whole point is dsl/cable dont want a new point of access to the home in rural areas, cause they know THEY WILL NEVER be able to compette and it just breaks there heart, im betting the 700mhz will be fixed like current wispa 900mhz instalations. | |
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lalalalalalala
Anon
2008-Oct-29 1:24 am
about poloticiansIf Obama will raise taxes to improve broadband and they're such polar opposites that must mean McCain would probably tell the companies to get off their asses and clean up their act(corruption)! He's already going on about the people behind the current finacial crisis and how he's gonna make them pay and we will know their names. If true BRAVO i say. | |
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DavePR
Member
2008-Oct-29 3:56 pm
Re: about poloticiansThat should be easy for Mr. McCain as most of the perpetrators work for him. | |
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White Space Broadband = no TVThey can't avoid interfering with TV. First, TV tuners have relatively wide front-end filters. So it's not just devices on the channel which cause problems, it's adjacent and in come cases 2nd adjacent channels which cause problems. You can get away with 1st adjacent if the transmitting antennas are co-located and the power of the signal is similar, but that's simply not true with white space devices.
Second, people in these rural areas where this white space broadband stuff is proposed often need to use a pre-amp to get their TV reliably. A pre-amp amplifies across the whole band (or bands). A nearby white space transmitter anywhere within the band will overload the pre-amp and result in loss of reception.
It's just not feasible to run white space devices in the same spectrum as the current TV infrastructure without degrading the latter significantly. | |
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Raioku
Anon
2008-Oct-30 12:22 am
give us whitespaceWhite space would be really beneficial to alot of people including myself using windstreams low ass internet speed (1.5 mbps) and having to pay some 40-50$ for it. If white space comes download speeds would be rocket fast 30-50 mbps. Dolly parton doesnt even know what the hell she is talking about. I support whitespace 300%. If the people at the FCC have a brain they will allow this. And as for watching TV: look on the internet and I am sure you will find your favorite shows. | |
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