 rudnickePremium join:2004-10-23 Rantoul, IL kudos:1 | Ugh. I'm to the point now that I just hate Verizon and AT&T. | |
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 |  | | Re: Ugh. said by rudnicke:I'm to the point now that I just hate Verizon and AT&T. I gots mines - Great 3G coverage from AT&T, and FiOS at my home, the best of both worlds...  -- .:|:. Go Wheatley or Go Home! | |
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 |  |  HangmnDon't Fight It...It's InevitablePremium join:2000-04-08 Philadelphia, PA | Re: Ugh. I PRAY that was sarcasm... -- »davescustompc.com | |
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 |  |  |  | | Re: Ugh. Note for me, it isn't. I have both as well and they both work beautifully. Helps to have a AT&T tower 200 yards from the house, of course, but in general, AT&T has worked fine and FiOS has been nearly perfect. | |
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 |  |  |  |  HangmnDon't Fight It...It's InevitablePremium join:2000-04-08 Philadelphia, PA | Re: Ugh. I guess...glad your happy. I'm just not quite sure what you are rubbing in... say it out loud..maybe THAT will clear it up for you..you are HAPPY with ATT and Verizon... -- »davescustompc.com | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | Re: Verizon Vader "I find your lack of faith disturbing." - Vader | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Verizon Vader "I find your lack of faith on our copper plant network disturbing." - Verizon | |
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 |  | | I agree, tired of hearing their bullshit! How they complain and complain about this and that. People need to start banding together and come up with a plan to increase competition. I think here, at DSL Reports, we should send emails to our Congressmen. For example, even though I don't live in Iowa, a fellow DSL Report member does. I help him/her by including my email to push his/her Congressmen to do something to increase competition. This can happen to state to state. Have some automated version of this, so you don't have to do it manually for each state. If someone has a better idea, I'm all ears! | |
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 |  |  | | Re: Ugh. Why would the congressman do that? He will lose so much money AT&t and Verizon are paying him. | |
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 |  |  | | sure ...write the congressman will do no good. If u have not fig out yet that gov't and their lined pockets of cash from lobbyist has casued most of this B.S. | |
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 |  |  CorydonCultivant son jardinPremium join:2008-02-18 Denver, CO | Haven't you heard? Corporations are people now, so they can buy off as many Congressmen and Senators as they need to get their own way.
(Thanks Republicans for stacking the Supreme Court with anti-free market, anti-liberty corporatist oligopolists!) -- "Religion allows people who would otherwise be arguing about whether the Death Star could beat a Borg Cube to have a place of respect within society." | |
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 |  |  |  TonyKl join:2010-04-08 San Antonio, TX | Re: Ugh. change that from anti-"free" market to anti-"fair" market and you would be more correct. This IS a "free" market where powerful corporations like AT$T and Verizon are free to become kings of their market. | |
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 |  |  |  | | I did hear that and we have morons running the country!! | |
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 |  NyNexit join:2009-11-01 Huntington, NY | I agree, It's disgusting. I refuse to subscribe to Verizon Fios, no matter how many flyers I get in the mail! | |
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 |  C0deZer0Oc'D To Rhythm And PolicePremium join:2001-10-03 Davenport, FL | I know what you mean. Here, we dropped the FiOS phone service; we previously had the Triple Play with a 20/5 plan.
Now, no landline, but more channels on the TV service, plus an upgrade of the internet to 25/25... and paying $50/month less, to boot. 
Just today, we finally ditched AT&T and went with MetroPCS. Though this means I won't be able to use the phone in Puerto Rico, I think I could simply get away with buying a cheap Boost Mobile phone and paying for the one odd month that I am down at the island to cover my proverbial bases should suffice. -- Front Line Force Fortress Forever | |
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 |  |  | | Boost mobile don't work in puerto Rico tmobile best option Tmobile is your best option for coverage in puerto Rico boost mobile not operational | |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD | Unexpected?
What did these politicians expect? If you make too many unreasonable demands of a private business it is simply going to say "Screw you" and set up shop in a more favorable locale.
In an ideal world, the voters in these jurisdictions would be smart enough to vote out their elected officials that pushed Verizon away. -- "Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service. | |
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 |  ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium join:2005-03-14 Putnam, CT kudos:4 1 edit | Re: Unexpected? Depends on who is calling it "unreasonable". | |
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 |  |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD | Re: Unexpected? said by ptrowski:Depends on who is calling it "unreasonable". If Verizon says it is unreasonable then it is. If a city wants FIOS then perhaps it should play nice with Verizon. -- "Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service. | |
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 |  |  |  | | Re: Unexpected? If a company is dodging taxes (WHICH IS ILLEGAL BTW), I don't really give a shit what they think is unreasonable. | |
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 |  |  |  |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD | Re: Unexpected? said by Metatron2008:If a company is dodging taxes (WHICH IS ILLEGAL BTW), I don't really give a shit what they think is unreasonable. If the law allows for Verizon not to pay a particular tax then how is what they are doing illegal. -- "Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
1 edit | Re: Unexpected? Technically, the original law gave Verizon exemption from property taxes with the understanding that they provide phone service to everyone. So, Mass. was trying to upgrade the law...I believe the money owed was less than Verizon's annual lobbying budget. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD | Re: Unexpected? said by Karl Bode:TSo, Mass. was trying to upgrade the law...I believe the money owed was less than Verizon's annual lobbying budget. True, but it is still a bargaining chip anyway. If Verizon tells MA that changing the law will jeopardize FIOS deployments, and if MA cares about FIOS being available to as many people as possible, then MA should listen to Verizon. -- "Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Unexpected? I'd love to see Wilmington try and build their own muni network. You can bet Verizon would be screaming bloody murder. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Unexpected? said by digitalfreak:I'd love to see Wilmington try and build their own muni network. You can bet Verizon would be screaming bloody murder. of course after giving them the big middle finger verizon won't be able to do much will they? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  axus join:2001-06-18 Washington, DC | Re: Unexpected? It wouldn't be the first time that competition has made them abruptly change their tune. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | | I wish we all could do this, this blasted economy isn't helping!! | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium join:2003-11-11 Philly burbs kudos:1 | said by digitalfreak:I'd love to see Wilmington try and build their own muni network. You can bet Verizon would be screaming bloody murder. News flash. I would love to see Wilmington try and build their own muni network as well. Seeings as they can barely run the city as it is, much less a municipal fiber optic network, well it would be pretty darn funny.
Wilmington is a pretty (pardon my French) fucked up place. As the banking industry tanks, and DuPont circles the bowl, one has to wonder how they will keep things afloat.
Would Verizon scream bloody murder? They might. They might not. But I can tell you from personal experience the REAL bloody murder in Wilmington is at the corner of 22nd and Lamonte. Of course a lot of the "bloody murder" has moved south to Sparrow Run (Er, I mean Brookmont Farms) Newark, and Bear.
No lack of bloody murder in New Castle County (where Wilmington is), though. It seems as though the thugs have branched out to the county and set up franchises.... -- Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  nonymousPremium join:2003-09-08 Glendale, AZ Reviews:
·Callcentric
| said by pnh102:said by Karl Bode:TSo, Mass. was trying to upgrade the law...I believe the money owed was less than Verizon's annual lobbying budget. True, but it is still a bargaining chip anyway. If Verizon tells MA that changing the law will jeopardize FIOS deployments, and if MA cares about FIOS being available to as many people as possible, then MA should listen to Verizon. Why. There will be another company along to wire the town with something. Fiber or cable or something equally as fast. Plus Verizon wants to cherry pick. Then keep out any competitors that might cover more people. An exclusive deal saying they can do what they want and supply only what they want. How is that competitive. So some people would get fiber and other left with nothing and an agreement with Verizon locking anyone else out. When the economy improves and another new or existing competitor has taken away these places Verizon really doesn't want it will be too late for Verizon. | |
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 |  |  |  jslikThat just happenedPremium join:2006-03-17 | said by pnh102: If Verizon says it is unreasonable then it is. If a city wants FIOS then perhaps it should play nice with Verizon. You can't be serious. So if Verizon, for example, wanted to tear up a bunch of streets without going through basic permitting because they thought that was "unreasonable", that would be ok? Is there any requirements you could see as being reasonable for a city to ask? -- If they told you wolverines make good house pets, would you believe them? | |
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 |  |  fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium join:2005-05-20 kudos:3 | said by ptrowski:Depends on who is calling it "unreasonable". Right now, in this uncertain economy, I don't blame Verizon (and I hate that company) for going where it's going to be the easiest to roll out this expensive new service to consumers. Look at what politicians largely did to cable for so long... in trade for getting the franchise agreement, cable had to pony up money for "community television" which is largely unwatched? All this money going into a program so a few people can make completely stupid TV shows that 10's of people actually watch? Some franchise authorities placed restrictions on the operators to answer their phones in 30 seconds or less... just a bunch of stupid things like that.
Verizon is taking a huge hit in the pocket by rolling out fiber which costs a butt-load of money and the politicians want to go over board... I personally don't blame verizon for this.. they're going to go where setting up shop is easiest. Sometimes I think government likes to make up rules just to make up rules.
Since they're technically an overbuilder, I think that should be enough... set up the basic rules for providing service, keep your hands out of their business, and let competition decide. I think they need to move away from these "agreements" and simply regulate the business to a degree - same rules for everyone. And really, if they set up a bunch of demands, it's no wonder why Verizon is saying "thanks, but no thanks"... | |
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 |  |  |  See 7 replies to this post |
 |  | | I agree with you, but what is unreasonable about Vz paying property taxes just like you and me?
What's the problem with a 5 year build out timeline for Fiber Services?
There are reasonable assurances and then there are unreasonable demands. The above two examples are neither. | |
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 |  woody7Premium join:2000-10-13 Torrance, CA | why don't we let all corporations run this country, oh wait the do, never mind  -- BlooMe | |
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 |  Mark HPremium join:2008-05-18 Sterling Heights, MI | The government just wants to use these companies for a tax collector.
Any property taxes they collect from these companies will merely be another expense the customers have to cover. | |
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 baineschile2600 ways to livePremium join:2008-05-10 Sterling Heights, MI Reviews:
·Comcast
·magicjack.com
1 edit | Not so bad....for Verizon If I was in charge of Verizon (or any other fiber/cable company), why would I waste time and money wiring a part of town that will have a high probability of bad debts and high churn. Maybe that seems "unfair" to people that live in lower income areas, but to me, its a solid business decision.
Verizon has a product people wants, and the means to deliver it. If a city council made demands that verizon didnt want to meet, I expect it was more of a business decision of profitibility margins, as opposed to the city being unreasonable.
Remember, Verizon is a publicly traded corporation, and finds a balance between profit and customer service, not a fiber municipality that the local city council is in charge of. | |
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 |  | | Re: Not so bad....for Verizon I can agree with you to a point, but the problem here is that the government has given Verzion a franchise covering both rich and poor areas and wants the entire footprint wired with fiber, not just the profitable ones. I would guess that under that system, one would need to profitable areas profitable enough to cover the losses in another area. Companies are used to figuring that sort of thing out all of the time. I can see both sides of the argument, though. | |
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 |  dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ kudos:4 | said by baineschile:If I was in charge of Verizon (or any other fiber/cable company), why would I waste time and money wiring a part of town that will have a high probability of bad debts and high churn. Maybe that seems "unfair" to people that live in lower income areas, but to me, its a solid business decision. maybe, but there are rich areas that are also being shunned. -- When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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 | | Muni-Fiber Look, Verizon is a private company, and can do as it pleases with it's investment dollars. If it chooses to pass over a city, then it's their decision, and they lose the potential revenue (as well as the potential headaches) that come with doing business in that city.
If these cities don't like it, there isn't much else they can do except roll-out their own muni-fiber network. If they feel that the demands they were placing on Verizon were too high, then they should pony up some muni-bonds and build it themselves. They they can set the standards for build-out times, customer service standards, ect ect. | |
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 |  See 14 replies to this post |
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 MadnessLike a flea circus at a dog show join:2000-01-05 Quincy, MA kudos:1 | Lovely... ...no Fios! Don't even think 7Mb DSL is available, either! | |
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 dforan join:2000-12-09 Willoughby, OH | Just lile the Federal Gov -- If your credit score is too low you are fired and denied FIOS
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 |  | | Re: Just lile the Federal Gov -- said by dforan:If your credit score is too low you are fired and denied FIOS When fios came to my area, I had no problem getting it installed at my home with a recent Chapter 7 Bankruptcy with Verizon debt discharged, delinquent student loans and essentially no equity in a 100k mortgage. | |
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 | | Rather have comcast I don't give a crap about FIOS anymore. Comcast has been doing a much better job I'm getting 15dl/5up now, free Norton 360 v4(FYI the past 2 versions of Norton have been awesome, much better then the crap they were putting out for the past 10yrs previous), free online backup, and the new online TV through fancast has been great since I'm on the road a lot. Verizon on the other hand charges for everything I think it's $5 or $10 a month extra for their Verizon Internet Security which is absolutely horrible. | |
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 |  1 edit | Re: Rather have comcast said by jasondhsd:I don't give a crap about FIOS anymore. Comcast has been doing a much better job I'm getting 15dl/5up now, free Norton 360 v4(FYI the past 2 versions of Norton have been awesome, much better then the crap they were putting out for the past 10yrs previous), free online backup, and the new online TV through fancast has been great since I'm on the road a lot. Verizon on the other hand charges for everything I think it's $5 or $10 a month extra for their Verizon Internet Security which is absolutely horrible. I would agree if I didnt have to deal with Comcrap though. If thats true about your current situation with them, then more power to you. I had nothing but misery with Comcrap.
I was having problems with congestion on Cablevision but ever since I got a Docsis 3.0 modem, speeds have been consistent and I'm happy with Cablevision now. I'd say if you can't get or don't want fios, Cablevision is the next best thing. Better than dealing with Time Warner, thats for sure | |
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 |  | | Many people will disagree because FIOS offers alot of HD that Comcast doesnt. I have Directv and Charter internet and will never see FIOS.
As for the Security Suite, what a waste. Use Avast or others and the protection is the same if not better for free. Not to mention it doesn't slow your PC like Norton and McAfee do. Check out the stats. | |
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 | | F You Verizon! Take your fios and stick it where the sun don't shine! I'll get my internet and voice service from Clearwire and my TV services from DirecTV! | |
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 | | fios i love how the telco must cover the "poor areas" those people can barely pay their rent or their light bill on time (and usually taking subsidies from the govt anyway). So yea lets tempt them with high speed internet and all other sorts of stuff they cant afford.
its ridiculous.
I'm no fan of the telephone or cable companies, but its ridiculous the stuff they want them to do. | |
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 ddg4005Premium join:2001-08-22 Bronx, NY Reviews:
·Optimum Online
| Don't demand anything of Verizon Verizon isn't exactly in a position to deny anybody anything. According to their 2009 numbers they've passed 12 million homes with fiber yet only half of those households have signed for either Fios internet or television service. That's nothing to brag about when you consider they've been offering the Internet service since 2004.
If the greedy bastards that run the company don't watch themselves tactics like this will compel municipalities to offer their own fiber services. And for those who don't think it can happen think again because it damn sure can. -- A man must have a code -Bunk | |
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 |  watice join:2008-11-01 New York, NY | Re: Don't demand anything of Verizon said by ddg4005:Verizon isn't exactly in a position to deny anybody anything. According to their 2009 numbers they've passed 12 million homes with fiber yet only half of those households have signed for either Fios internet or television service. That's MORE of a reason to deny a city a buildout. Why spend more money expanding when you haven't capitalized off ur current footprint? | |
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 |  tim_kButtons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, KaseyPremium,VIP join:2002-02-02 Stewartstown, PA kudos:13 | said by ddg4005:Verizon isn't exactly in a position to deny anybody anything. According to their 2009 numbers they've passed 12 million homes with fiber yet only half of those households have signed for either Fios internet or television service. That's nothing to brag about when you consider they've been offering the Internet service since 2004. If the greedy bastards that run the company don't watch themselves tactics like this will compel municipalities to offer their own fiber services. And for those who don't think it can happen think again because it damn sure can. And the execs didn't learn from this. Many people that I know who won't sign up for FIOS feel their present service works just fine and they don't want to spend more money on FIOS service. Verizon still won't offer a basic, low cost FIOS internet tier. Their billing problems are legendary. Now Ivan has dollar signs in his eyes thinking about how he's going to get all these people to sign up for even more expensive LTE service while he pulls the plug on FIOS and copper plant. How many people who have to wait weeks to get POTs or DSL service restored are going to give even more money to Verizon for Ivan's latest brain storm? -- RIP my babies Buttons 1/15/94-2/9/07, Beamer 7/24/08, & Bows 12/17/94-10/11/09 | |
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 | | those dots You may not like the dots being connected, but I'm happy that BBR is here to connect them long-term.
I'm very lucky to live in a neighborhood with Optimum Online and FIOS available, but am always excited to have more competing systems going head to head.
Yes VZW is a business, but they're not exactly creating friends in those bypassed cities and states when it comes time to twist arms and keep network neutrality from growing pointy pointy teeth.
Hope springs eternal. | |
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 Jovi join:2000-02-24 Mount Joy, PA | Still waiting in PA Gave them rat bastards 4 billion and only a small portion has Fios. I'll demand all I want till I get it, or fork over the money you crooks!  -- "Some people have no respect for logic."  | |
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 cdbma join:2003-01-19 Bolton, MA | $$ Please do not confuse revenue with customer satisfaction, healthy competition and doing the right thing for the market. These days, it's all about the almighty dollar. If Verizon (and others) think they can satisfy their business plan with the current build-out, then they will. To hell with the customers.
I worked for a computer company that had the same elitist mentality - "WE'LL tell YOU what's good for YOU!" The company defined the market, owned the market, employed north of 100,000 tax-paying employees at its peak and then got greedy (and some say complacent). Needless to say, it was eaten alive in the late 90s. | |
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 | | Verizon.. do like google Verizon should do just like Google is doing. If your town wants Verizon's FiOS service then they need to contact Verizon and give them an incentive to deploy. If not, then make due with cable. If that's not satisfactory enough, then build your own muni-fiber network, and yes I agree that if a muni builds out fiber after Verizon passes on the chance to deploy FiOS then Verizon is not allowed to lobby, sue, or do anything to undermine the muni project.
I for one though do not want my municipality to build out a fiber network as much as I would rather they fix my roads and lower my property taxes. | |
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 |  rjk @ameritech.net | Re: Verizon.. do like google
EXACTLY. That is an excellent idea. | |
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 | | So remove them.... If they are unwilling to provide the services the city/town/state wants, then remove their rights to do business there. Give them 6 months to sell their assets and leave or take over their assets as it is in the best interest of the community and sell them to a company that is willing to provide services. | |
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 TomekPremium join:2002-01-30 Valley Stream, NY | Build Your Own Towns should invest in their own infrastructure. City-owned fiber would server better and offer "superior consumer service" and "protection" to VZ or any other (un)provider -- Semper Fi | |
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 h8verizonDSLHad fiber today join:2005-02-25 Middletown, DE kudos:1 | No FiOS ever in City of Wilmington Customer Service and reasonable response to customer concerns was not an issue for Big Red. The City of Wilmington wanted veriZon to build a studio to produce Public Access TV Programs. Big Red said no, but if the City or anyone who wanted to provide a tape for broadcast, Big Red would broadcast the tape.
So, the City of Wilmington denied the Franchise request. That's why there is no FiOS in the City of Wilmington, and there won't be. There are reasonable requests and some that are outrageous, and Big Red made a business decision no to pursue FiOS in Wilmington. | |
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 | | Taxes and Abatements When you build a new house, or new building, you're supposed to get a certain number of years of reduced (abated) taxes right? At least that's how it works in NYC. Oh I'm sorry, most of you have never built a house or a building before? Either way a time frame of reduced, or waived property taxes is a perfectly reasonable demand to make based on the major capital investment Verizon needs to make.
The economy, still trying to pull out of the recession is only more reason governments need to be operating in a more business friendly manner. I rent out commercial space, I don't like offering reduced security deposits, free 1st month's rent, extended rent reductions, re-negotiated lowered lease rents etc etc.. But you know what, its better than having a vacant space that costs me money to maintain every month.
Also, whoever says Verizon is only going to roll out FIOS where they can create a monopoly... They're here in NY, and most people who have FIOS also have a choice of cable at the very least. | |
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 | | No to underground I recall a town in MA that as part of the FIOS franchise, edict that all the fiber optic lines be put underground or there would be no franchise at all. Same town has ComCast who has their wires up on poles... | |
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 hernang7542Helpless In The Face Of Your BeautyPremium join:2001-04-25 Wilmington, DE | Wilmington resident here... Unfortunately, the News journal article is about 2 years past due. I've been living with this lack of service from Verizon for quite some time. It wouldn't be so bad if their copper dsl deployment was a little better but my neighborhood only gets 1.5Mb DSL...the alternative would be to go to Comcast for cable; which I refuse to do as a former Comcast customer whose been bit multiple times by their terrible customer service.
Verizon has those "sign me up" kiosks in multiple locations, but when asked about my area, they tell me to contact the Wilmington city government. I've read through the dispute memo, and it's fairly clear the major sticking point is the City insists on a universal deployment from Verizon. I agree that Verizon has the right not to agree to those terms, but it's their existing customers with low-grade copper that really get stuck. | |
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