 | | Rationing So now they're rationing bandwidth. Excellent. | |
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approval from:
SrsBsns 
| Re: Rationing The private sector profiteers are rationing??? I THOUGHT ONLY THE GOVERNMENT DID THAT WHEN THEY'RE PLANNING OUT HOW TO KILL GRANDMA! | |
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| | | said by fifty nine:So now they're rationing bandwidth. Excellent. Omg, there isn't enough bandwidth to go around! I know what I must do to my bittorrenting neighbors now.... | |
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| | | | Re: Rationing said by k1ll3rdr4g0n:said by fifty nine:So now they're rationing bandwidth. Excellent. Omg, there isn't enough bandwidth to go around! I know what I must do to my bittorrenting neighbors now.... That statement reminds me of the DSL vs Cable adverts run earlier on in the decade. | |
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|  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| They always have.
Sell 50 connections to consumers.
Purchase 1 T-1 line. Call it good, smile at the massive profits.
Soon as congestion occurs, blame "Bandwidth hogs" and institute filtering/blocking/capping/overcharges etc etc
It's called a scam. As usual though when done by corporations upon people it's 100% legal. If a user should try to get what they pay for from a Corporation however, then that's a CRIME.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | i am really fed up with these large corporate assholes.
wish we could take big business down and build it up fairly. | |
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Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Do the math.. Headline says 8 hours per day, but later story says "from noon to midnight". That's 12 hours, not 8.
ISPs really hate their customers for actually using bandwidth. As long as there is no alternate ISP they can pretty much do what they want to annoy customers.
On one hand ISPs advertise higher and higher speeds, but then turn around and block you from using it. | |
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| | | Re: Do the math.. Agree! For me the only reason for having higher speeds is to use download, stream and gaming... bandwidth intensive apps... if I just wanted to browse and check my email I will just pay $15 for basic DSL no freaking $45+ HSI cable. | |
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| Reviews:
·MSN
·Brand X Internet
·DSL EXTREME
1 edit | said by old_wiz_60:ISPs really hate their customers for actually using bandwidth. As long as there is no alternate ISP they can pretty much do what they want to annoy customers. On one hand ISPs advertise higher and higher speeds, but then turn around and block you from using it. Yeah, ISPs really hate to provide the service you PAY THEM FOR!
I wish I could be paid for NOT providing something! | |
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| | | | Re: Do the math.. "I wish I could be paid for NOT providing something"
You can, Pay me 500 bucks a month and I won't have Vito provide you with broken knee caps.......
OK, so it's illegal, but you can get paid for not providing a "service". | |
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 morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | rationed for 12 hours a day? I expect my bill to be half If ISPs ration connections for half a day, consumers should only pay half what they pay now. | |
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 ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4
3 edits |  Link to original story mentioned here
Under the proposals all protocols but HTTP will be capped to a third in peak times, and even some web sites that do use HTTP will be restricted if they take up too much bandwidth.
She added that the changes would be finalized in the "coming weeks".
The question of whether broadband operators should be allowed to restrict access to services and applications at their discretion has been a subject of hot debate between the European Parliament and Council this year.
During a vote in May on new European telecoms legislation, the Parliament refused for the second time to sanction any restrictions on net neutrality.
The Council and Parliament are currently trying to reach a compromise, and have scheduled a meeting to discuss the issue on 29 September.
So, this hasn't been implemented YET and may be modified based on customer reaction. And EU rules may prevent it before it is ever implemented.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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| openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:1
1 edit | Re: Link to original story mentioned here And it doesn't block non-HTTP traffic as Karl mentioned, but instead caps limits throughput at by 2/3. | |
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|  rsa0
join:2003-01-25
Birmingham, AL | Man, I want their business model !!! must be great: screw your paying customers and get away with that !!!!
But then I guess , being Europe, one won't have much of a choice if they want to go with some other ISP... | |
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| | ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4 | Re: Link to original story mentioned here said by rsa0:Man, I want their business model !!! must be great: screw your paying customers and get away with that !!!! But then I guess , being Europe, one won't have much of a choice if they want to go with some other ISP... The EU has many ISP competitors for internet access, just like the US does. So customers can go elsewhere. And I expect their throttling plan will be modified BEFORE it is implemented.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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| | |  funchordsHelloPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5 | Re: Link to original story mentioned here said by ThrowDemsOut:The EU has many ISP competitors for internet access, just like the US does. So customers can go elsewhere. And I expect their throttling plan will be modified BEFORE it is implemented. That's what I was wondering: how competitive is this? Who could make such a policy in a competitive environment. They have to have some lock on their market or the users will flee.
Meanwhile, time to make everything on the net use HTTP, web site or not.
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Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
Evil does seek to maintain power by suppressing the truth, or by misleading the innocent. --Spock and McCoy stardate 5029.5 | |
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| | | |  jlivingoodPremium,VIP
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA
kudos:1 | Re: Link to original story mentioned here I believe this is actually a fairly common network management practice in European (and possibly other) markets. For example, "SamKnows" did a study of UK ISPs last summer that revealed this behavior in a some UK ISPs. (SamKnows is used extensively by Ofcom, the UK equivalent of the FCC.) You can find this study here if you are interested: »www.samknows.com/broadband/pm/PM···r_08.pdf - see page 43's conclusions.
A year and a half ago when we developed our new congestion management system, we looked at this style of system, where all non-HTTP traffic is throttled to a set speed at certain peak hours -- and we took a different path as many of you know.
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JL
Comcast | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Link to original story mentioned here The UK is significantly different than the leading countries of Europe. like Sweden. | |
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| | | | | | jlivingoodPremium,VIP
join:2007-10-28
Philadelphia, PA
kudos:1 | Re: Link to original story mentioned here said by sonicmerlin:The UK is significantly different than the leading countries of Europe. like Sweden. No doubt. The Swedish IPRED law seems to have had interesting effects on traffic patterns, and has helped to invigorate apps like Spotify and other services. »torrentfreak.com/anti-piracy-law···-090402/
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JL
Comcast | |
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1 edit | said by rsa0:Man, I want their business model !!! must be great: screw your paying customers and get away with that !!!! But then I guess , being Europe, one won't have much of a choice if they want to go with some other ISP... You want to hear about rationing? My dad lives in the Caribbean. No, not the touristy parts that Americans see.
He pays quarterly water bills at a flat rate. At first he was getting a full supply of water every day, then that changed to twice a week, now the water doesn't even make it up to his house. Yet the water bills are still due no matter what. And if you don't pay? The water utility has the right to seize your property, sell it and take the proceeds.
And no, you can't opt out. If you live within a certain distance (I think it's 2km) of a water pipe you have to take or pay for service.
The Government owns the water utility so they have the full force of the law behind them. How pathetic is that?
I think that ISPs are definitely headed in that direction. "best effort" service really means half assed. Then they start with caps, then throttling, then rationing. Pretty soon they'll promise one thing and deliver maybe 10% of it, then gradually close to 0% of it. All in the name of "network management" or some other lousy excuse. | |
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|  IgnitePremium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK | They've been testing for a while.
It is not, however, charging customers extra for certain sites and protocols contrary to V3's first paragraph. | |
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| KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| said by ThrowDemsOut:So, this hasn't been implemented YET and may be modified based on customer reaction. This kind of reaction?
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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bigjimc
join:2003-04-21
Middleboro, MA | The Tubes The tubes are all full..... They have to do something for the good of the tubes. | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: The Tubes That will just dissolve all those bad packets away. | |
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binded2
join:2009-08-11
Providence, RI | without the flaming they advertise those higher speeds knowing that more then 90% of the time they will NEVER ERVER provide you that speed.
when you sign your contracts they only put speeds UPTO*
to cover there asses.
i think that we should hold them to a miniume speed say 10/5
if you cant provide that 24/7 then screw them.
and if people continue to allow these companys to play these games thats what it is how high and low can we go
meaning how much more can we charge for providing less? | |
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| | | Re: without the flaming What I would like to see is a 90/90/90 rule.
Basically my idea is that an ISP should be required to provide 90% of their advertized speed to 90% of their subscribers, 90% of the time.
So for example, let's say your ISP advertizes 20mb download and 5mb upload and has 1000 subscribers. They should be required to provide a minimum of 18mb download and 4.5mb upload to a minimum of 900 subscribers for a minimum of 21.6 hours a day.
That means there would be no peak slowdowns lasting more than 2 hours and 24 minutes which I think is reasonable because inevitably there will be some unforeseen problems that may be beyond the carrier's reasonable control. Of course the rule would only apply to the connection between the ISP and subscriber as traffic on the internet itself is beyond the carrier's control.
This model would mean cable companies cannot oversell nodes, and telcos will have to provide more reliable dsl service or hasten their upgrade to FTTH. Or the other option would be the isps would have to actually advertize what they are able to provide. The only problem is that advertized speeds would dramatically decrease, and I think most users would still rather get 20mbps some of the time hit or miss rather than get let's say 1.5mbps all of the time.
The only service imo capable of living up to the 90/90/90 rule is probably Verizon's FiOS, as I've actually seen 105% of my advertized speed 100% of the time. | |
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 BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Not very logical UPC claims that the system, which will run from noon to midnight and will cut users' bandwidth by two thirds when accessing bandwidth-intensive services, will enable it to solve network problems and provide customers with faster access...."
I'm not sure how SLOWING down one's connection gives them FASTER access. I guess the whole point is to make sure those not on bandwidth intensive sites get faster speed, BUT if you're on a site that's strictly HTML and doesn't use any bandwidth intensive application then you don't need fast speed. Fact is 512 kbps is more than fast enough for a strictly HTML only page. | |
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| | | Re: Not very logical "Dutch ISP reverts to Gopher... film at 11!" (but you'll have to wait till after midnight to see it) | |
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| | | Call me crazy.... but I would think that when you are on those bandwidth-intensive services is the EXACT time you actually need that bandwidth.
Without it, they are pretty much killing the use of those services and thus dictating what can and can't be on the Internet for the Dutch citizens. But only during those given times of course. | |
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 HarddriveProud American and Infidel since 1968.Premium
join:2000-09-20
Phone Room
kudos:2
 ·Comcast
| 'Not in the office at the moment' seems to me that the upper management folks of this Danish ISP are spending too much time in their local 'coffee shops'. let's just punish everyone for the infractions of a few. i guess its true that one bad apple ruins the whole bunch.
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I've come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass and i'm all outta bubblegum. | |
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| | | Re: 'Not in the office at the moment' said by Harddrive:seems to me that the upper management folks of this Danish ISP are spending too much time in their local 'coffee shops'. let's just punish everyone for the infractions of a few. i guess its true that one bad apple ruins the whole bunch. If you believe their claims about 1% ruining it for everyone, then I have a bridge to sell you... | |
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| | HarddriveProud American and Infidel since 1968.Premium
join:2000-09-20
Phone Room
kudos:2 | Re: 'Not in the office at the moment' where's the bridge at? i'm in the market for some real estate. | |
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amungusPremium
join:2004-11-26
America Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| weak sauce I'm getting tired of saying this, but it must be too simple for ISPs to understand...
Stop raising "speed" if you can't freaking handle it!
I'd rather have a steady 3Mbps than, say, 12Mbps that can only be used sometimes... (Cable networks here, for example...)
And this ISP in question - »www.upc.nl/internet/ - if they can offer up to 120Mbps down via fiber... they should just offer what they can actually handle instead of this crap. | |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Stupid Why on earth would anyone consider this type of "service" to be something worth paying for? Unless my bill is also being throttled for 12 hours a day, then forget it.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
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| | Well you guys have your target... ...I would pretty much do whatever it took to leave this broadband provider ASAP. Companies pulling crap like this do not deserve to be in business.
I have a hard time believing that it is cheaper to do this horrible program than it is to just cancel service for the 1% abuser.
What is up with ISP wanting to punish everyone for a few people abuse?
Your choice should be simple, leave this ISP if you have another choice available to you. | |
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|  SLDPremium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA | Re: Well you guys have your target... Is it really "abuse" if people are using the service they purchased? | |
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1 edit | If bandwidth is expensive, low prices require rationing As usual, we see several commenters in this thread acting as if bandwidth were free -- and as if ISPs who did not provide infinite amounts of it for nothing were greedy.
The fact is that bandwidth costs a lot in many places. Here in Laramie, Wyoming, the typical wholesale price is $100 per Mbps per month. That means that a connection that uses an average of 768Kbps, 24x7, costs the ISP $76.87 just for the bandwidth (and then there are more costs for delivery to the customer, tech support, billing, maintenance, etc). So, to give a customer a connection that costs $20 or $30 per month without making Web pages painfully slow to load, one must indeed shape traffic, rationing the bandwidth in ways that are sensitive to usage patterns and the type of usage.
There's just no other way to manage it. To prohibit such management would, in fact, make it impossible to provide affordable high speed Internet and would very much harm consumers. | |
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See 23 replies to this post |
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 MurdocPremium
join:2009-02-08
Manitowoc, WI | Are they drilling through the ground to get more 1's and 0's Seems like they are treating bandwidth like oil. As we all know they make those 1's and 0's from oil byproducts  | |
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1 edit | Re: Are they drilling through the ground to get more 1's and 0's said by Murdoc:Seems like they are treating bandwidth like oil. As we all know they make those 1's and 0's from oil byproducts Come and listen to a story about a man named Karl
He dissed ISPs with a whine and a snarl
Then one day he was snipin' at Comcast
And up through the Net came a digital blast.
Bandwidth, that is. Electronic gold. A Texas T3.
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Shame it can't happen in real life. | |
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| | | | Re: Are they drilling through the ground to get more 1's and 0's said by SuperWISP:said by Murdoc:Seems like they are treating bandwidth like oil. As we all know they make those 1's and 0's from oil byproducts Come and listen to a story about a man named Karl He dissed ISPs with a whine and a snarl Then one day he was snipin' at Comcast And up through the Net came a digital blast. Bandwidth, that is. Electronic gold. A Texas T3. ----- Shame it can't happen in real life. Trust me, no one's laughing with you. They're laughing *at* you. | |
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| |  tmh
@maxonline.com.sg | said by SuperWISP:said by Murdoc:Seems like they are treating bandwidth like oil. As we all know they make those 1's and 0's from oil byproducts Come and listen to a story about a man named Karl He dissed ISPs with a whine and a snarl Then one day he was snipin' at Comcast And up through the Net came a digital blast. Bandwidth, that is. Electronic gold. A Texas T3. Too funny. | |
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| | | "Snake oil" is a more likely description. | |
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rayePremium
join:2000-08-14
Orange, CA | Time for some end of bandwidth counseling Perhaps it is time to pull the plug on that XP machine that has been spewing spam e-mails for the last six months... | |
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| | Freaky Dutch ISP If they know that it is 1% of thier users causing the problem, then they MUST know who the users are. Why not kick them off or just disrupt them.
I smell BS on the 1% of users being the issue. I think they are just trying to save costs by reducing bandwidth.
Vote with your wallets and move. | |
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| | | Re: Freaky Dutch ISP Hi,
According to research, about 25% all of broadband users in Holland use P2P or usenet.
That percentage is most likely much higher at UPC, since they advertise with really high (theoretical!) speeds.
But telling the press that you're giving 25%-50% of your internet customers the finger is going to result in a lot of negative newsitems.
It's much better to portray it like it's only 1% of their customers.
And that that small minority is ruining it for the rest.
And, of course, the dutch press is falling for this.
A US company would never get away with this. | |
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| | Freaky ISP UPC I'm one of the dutch upc customers. Our problem is that they advertise with their fastest speed of Holland. Their marketing line is " Fiberpower from UPC goes further where adsl stops.
I have the fiber 120mbit account. from 0:01 till 12:00 I can download whith usenet 14mbs. from 12:00 till 24:00 our speed is capped to 4,5mbs. But my invoice/bill is the same € 70,- a month. Ok when you cap 1/3 I can life with that. But capping 2/3 is f... illegal. | |
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| | | Re: Freaky ISP UPC You forgot to tell them you're locked in a 1-year contract.
A contract that allows them to provide you with 100 kbit ps service,even though you're paying for a 120mbit connection, and get away with it. | |
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| | | I don't get it bohr. You're paying for 120mbits but you get 14mbps even at the best of times? Does that not bother you? | |
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| | IgnitePremium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK | Re: Freaky ISP UPC He meant Mbytes I believe. | |
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| | Viva La Revolucion The revolution will be broadcast...
...on port 80. | |
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| | | Re: Viva La Revolucion LOL
I'm sure they'll cap that down too to a few bits per second | |
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