  mrchris Stop deleting my posts Premium join:2002-10-01 North Babylon, NY
·Optimum Online
edit: July 22nd, @12:48PM
| Lies! That's complete bullshit, Embarq...and you know it. How would you feel if I sold the browsing habits of your employees (normal joes, managers and execs) that off the clock/at home?
I'll just make some lame excuse the way you are doing with your customers. | |
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 |   cdru Go Colts Premium,MVM join:2003-05-14 Fort Wayne, IN
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Lies! said by mrchris :How would you feel if I sold the browsing habits of your employees (normal joes, managers and execs) that off the clock/at home? Corporations don't have feelings. The company itself could care less employee's browsing habits were tracked. The actual person you might be asking the question to probably cares, but official company stance is determined by one or more individuals that collectively doesn't have a soul to care about things like this. | |
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  zach_lloyd
join:2006-04-10 Greenwood, SC | Empowering...? Being an Embarq customer, I must say that I feel quite "empowered" by having behavioral advertising shoved down my throat whether I like it or not.
Hell, it even reduces my monthly bill. Oh...wait a minute...... | |
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 |  Kearnstd Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: Empowering...? Ads increase monthly profit for the ISP, they also raise rates. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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 |   N3OGH It's Biden Vs. the Biscuit. Sarah's hot Premium join:2003-11-11 Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
| Behavioral advertising is about "empowering violating individual and business internet users by making their experience more accessible and relevant to advertisers so we can line our pockets."
100% NOT ACCEPTABLE -- Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power
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 MASantangelo Premium join:2004-07-19 Pittstown, NJ | Curious... I'm curious to see if any of these ISPs raised rates/prices/fees in order to pay for NebuAD hardware/software and then proceeded to pocket the profit.
Seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do if I were a money-grubbing ISP. | |
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 |   TK Junk Mail Go ahead, make my day Premium join:2002-03-03 Margate City, NJ clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Curious... said by MASantangelo :Seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do if I were a money-grubbing ISP. Ah, the demand that ISPs don't make a reasonable profit. Of course, to some, any company that actually makes money is by definition "money grubbing".
Check out their income statements: »finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=EQ&annual They are only making 14%, 12.3%, & 10.6% the last 3 years. Just enough to keep investors interested enough in their company to fund capital improvements.
Income last 3 years 683,000,000 784,000,000 878,000,000
Capital expenditures last 3 years 829,000,000 923,000,000 828,000,000
So the last 2 years they actually had to borrow money to fund improvements. Sure doesn't sound like a money grubbing operation to me. But I am sure it does to those who think they should get everything for free and other people should invest and not get a return(except for themselves of course). -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
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 |  |   funchords Robb Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Hillsboro, OR
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
·Comcast
| Re: Curious... said by TK Junk Mail :said by MASantangelo :Seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do if I were a money-grubbing ISP. Ah, the demand that ISPs don't make a reasonable profit. Of course, to some, any company that actually makes money is by definition "money grubbing". When I pay them to ship my bits across the Internet, and they betray my best interests by reselling my data to a third party, that's money-grubbing.
Check out their income statements: » finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=EQ&annualThey are only making 14%, 12.3%, & 10.6% the last 3 years. Just enough to keep investors interested enough in their company to fund capital improvements. Only 14%, 12.3% or 10.6% -- in today's economy? -- that's pretty damned good return on investment.
Like it or not, Broadband is a commodity. It's not the place to invest if you want 20%+ growth. It's slower and more assured, like a utility.
Also, Investors don't fund capital improvements. Investors authorize the seeking of new funding or fire boards of directors. But Investors are investors because they have already invested. What they then want to see is return on their investment either in increased stock prices or dividends. -- Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon Comcast: We never did anything wrong, and we'll never do it again...
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 |  |  |   TK Junk Mail Go ahead, make my day Premium join:2002-03-03 Margate City, NJ clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Curious... said by funchords :Also, Investors don't fund capital improvements. Investors authorize the seeking of new funding or fire boards of directors. Of course they do. Thru new stock offerings and reinvestment of money that could have gone for bigger dividends is reinvesting by the shareholders. Borrowing is mostly used to fund improvements, but that isn't the only way. -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
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 |  |   supergirl
join:2007-03-20 Pensacola, FL
·Skype
·Cox VOIP
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southeast
·magicjack.com
| said by TK Junk Mail :said by MASantangelo :Seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do if I were a money-grubbing ISP. Check out their income statements: » finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=EQ&annualThey are only making 14%, 12.3%, & 10.6% the last 3 years. Just enough to keep investors interested enough in their company to fund capital improvements. Income last 3 years 683,000,000 784,000,000 878,000,000 Capital expenditures last 3 years 829,000,000 923,000,000 828,000,000 So the last 2 years they actually had to borrow money to fund improvements. You forget cash flow, which funds infrastructure (pays all the bills then some is great cash flow). The OCF is $1.74 billion. Their EBITA is $2.67 billion. Their operating margin is nearly 26%. I'd say Emarq has become a nice little investment. The only have $5.67 billion in debt as well. Cash Flow is always a key number. Their book value is $29.98 billion. And, their dividend number would make some companies drool. -- Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton. -Supergirl | |
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 |  |   Ian Premium join:2002-06-18 Fremont, CA
| said by TK Junk Mail :So the last 2 years they actually had to borrow money to fund improvements. Sure doesn't sound like a money grubbing operation to me. But I am sure it does to those who think they should get everything for free and other people should invest and not get a return(except for themselves of course). A company needing to borrow money, particularly a young one, to fund improvements is hardly unusual. And making 10-15% NET profit, even after paying interest on that debt is financial performance to envy.
Which is not to say that I'd buy Embarq stock. Their entire sleazy business model is under a microscope now. That enviable revenue figure could plummet by 50% or more in short order should they be required to need an opt in and the debt would soon bankrupt them. -- Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency. David Wong | |
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 |  Kearnstd Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ | when they make their profits off selling a product that is one thing, when they make profits off selling out their customers that is money grubbing. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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 |  |   Dezbend Premium,MVM join:2001-04-20
| Re: Curious... Just out of curiosity (and I don't want to put myself in the position of defending this) is it ok for Embarq to put a google search bar on the myembarq.com home page (they get revenue from google everytime someone uses that search option)?
If so how is that different?
If not why? -- DSLr Mafia Member. | |
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 |  |  |  |   Dezbend Premium,MVM join:2001-04-20
| Re: Curious... That is the answer I was expecting, and that is basically the answer I would give... so the issue isn't really about money-grubbing (via finding new revenue streams) but indeed privacy. -- DSLr Mafia Member. | |
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  inteller Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08 Tulsa, OK
·Cingular Wireless
| well but... "Interesting, considering I've yet to see a free or reduced rate NebuAD funded ISP."
and hence is the crux of their argument. They will tell you that you are getting a discount because if they didn't sell your data they would have to raise your rates. | |
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 |  PrntRhd
join:2004-11-03 Fairfield, CA
·Comcast Formerly ..
·Comcast
| Re: well but... said by inteller :"Interesting, considering I've yet to see a free or reduced rate NebuAD funded ISP." and hence is the crux of their argument. They will tell you that you are getting a discount because if they didn't sell your data they would have to raise your rates. No raise your rates MORE.  | |
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 DoRight
join:2007-07-20 Mechanicsburg, PA
·Comcast
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Verizon FIOS
edit: July 22nd, @01:18PM
| Reminds me.. This reminds me of those Direct TV commercials.. Let's make something up so it sounds good 80% of the time for 20% of our customers.. Something like that.. lol... This has nothing to do with customers getting a better service.. More money in Sprint, I mean Embarq's pocket.. | |
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  JasonOD
@comcast.net
| Welcome to marketing in the digital age boys....... There are pluses and minuses to increasing technology. Just like your connection at work, there can be no expectations of privacy when using your home connection. In this case though, your employer can use your habits against you, while your home ISP uses your browsing to make money. | |
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 |  tshunter
join:2007-06-10 Cedarpines Park, CA
·Charter Pipeline
| Exactly!
Yeah no shite. Anybody that believes otherwise is a damn markerter or shister or spammer themselves. Amazing to me how many people don't think it is a big deal now but 20 years down the road they wonder why everything is "so hard" and "unfair". Take it from someone who has already been using the internet for 25+ years.. it doesn't get better, it gets worse with time, and so many big corps with no soul will sell all your data for a penny because it's not their personal info, it's yours. Oh yeah, and I already spend $59.99+ per month for high speed internet, so why exactly should I have to also pay with my personal data? Wake up people or you will have to whether you like it or not after it's way too late, right about the time your social security number is being used by someone else on the other side of the planet, and every email provider you try to jump ship to in the future because of all the spiders gets hijacked oh waah and now the internet's no fun anymore, so different from your television back before it started doing the same thing. Reconsider your stance because it's real hard to do "asshole-reallocation" when all the accepted norms say it's okay for the big corps to ignore that you have the right to choose whether or not all of your self can be bought or sold by them for whatever cost they conclude (and of course you don't get the royalties from it either). :O
tshunter | |
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  Skeedatl Ah, push it - push it real good Premium join:2007-12-26 The Cloud | Then make it opt in Is the service is so bitchen, then they'll have no problem suckering signing people up. | |
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  Richard B Fur It Up
join:2007-06-22 Portland, OR
·Comcast
| Much ado about Nothing Contextual advertising has been going on for some time, for example I was researching Hello Kitty items looking and bid history on Ebay to see what they were going for. as a result I getting plush and Hello Kitty suggestions from Ebay. The there contextual ads on Live Journal. IF there is anything I am bothered with is how business today are trying to see revenue outside their main buissness, be it internet or airlines.
"empowering individual and business internet users by making their experience more accessible and relevant."
This is true for the advertiser allowing them to target their ad on only on people who will buy their product. I would like to see more of it because I am sick and tired as a bible believing (reformed ) Christian getting ads for anti Christian programing and gay bear dating sites because I have the word bear and Christ in my Live Journal.
I do not see the need for grandstanding Congress critters or corporate wonks need to get involve in this issue. If any thing the free market shroud sort things out by letting a entrepreneur create a encryption service or router that can thwart deep packet scanning. I be first in line to buy it. | |
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 |   avd706 Premium join:2003-02-06 Great Neck, NY
| Re: Much ado about Nothing said by Richard B :free market shroud sort things out by letting a entrepreneur create a encryption service or router that can thwart deep packet scanning. I be first in line to buy it. Is there a anonymiser proxy which encrypts traffic from the browser to the proxy server? | |
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 |  lordofwhee
join:2007-10-21 Everett, WA
| A free market solves nothing. We've seen that time and time again. I'd be all for a totally deregulated market if companies weren't granted monopolies and allowed to continue unchecked in blatantly anti-competitive practices.
Telecommunications is one of the few markets where we need MORE regulation, or at least a branch of government with the power to enforce current regulations (and have those regulations written into law, unlike the FCC's 'rules'). | |
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 |  |   Richard B Fur It Up
join:2007-06-22 Portland, OR
·Comcast
edit: July 23rd, @03:45AM
| Re: Much ado about Nothing A fundament flaw is the Orwellian use of competition. Completion will allow other to install wire to the premises rather than forcing redistribution of bandwidth to companies who did build the physical network. I think of the Brand X / EarthLink case. IF we want true competition then do way with local franchising and force government to grant easements to any company who want run copper or fiber networks. | |
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 |  |  |   avd706 Premium join:2003-02-06 Great Neck, NY
| Re: Much ado about Nothing said by Richard B :A fundament flaw is the Orwellian use of competition. Orwell or Darwin? | |
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 |  |  |   funchords Robb Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Hillsboro, OR | I thought that was the case already. No? | |
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 |  SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| said by Richard B :I do not see the need for grandstanding Congress critters or corporate wonks need to get involve in this issue. If any thing the free market shroud sort things out by letting a entrepreneur create a encryption service or router that can thwart deep packet scanning. I be first in line to buy it. It's funny how those who worship at the altar of the free market see absolutely nothing wrong with direct invasion of privacy by entities who stand to make a lot of money from it at the same time they tell you how good it is for you. Since you're so happy with this sort of arrangement and don't see a need for government intervention to prohibit the practice and/or at least have regs in place that said entities must notify customers, why don't you just hand over all your personal financial info and such to me. I promise it's good for you and I'll send you a coupon for a free pint of Ben & Jerry's. | |
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 Shoreline Your Freedom Fries Are Stale
join:2003-09-29 Santa Clara, CA | Of course .. and stabbing me multiple times with a knife empowers the health care industry.
Nothing new here. | |
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 |   rcdailey Dragoonfly Premium join:2005-03-29 Rialto, CA
| Re: Of course said by Shoreline :.. and stabbing me multiple times with a knife empowers the health care industry. Nothing new here. It's more like this: Being stabbed multiple times with a knife increases the probability of your getting emergency care, as opposed to just walking into an ER and sitting down to wait for a nurse. | |
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  Dezbend Premium,MVM join:2001-04-20
| Price Increases I don't support the use of NebuAD and especially the method Embarq chose to employ it, but it has been suggested that there have been no price decreases or even price increases in tangent with this. As it is true that no price changes were tied into the use of NebuAD, Embarq did lower the price of their DSL in January and has a history of dropping prices... I don't recall any price increase on the general price (some promotions were limited time).
8 years ago Sprint sold 512k DSL @ $52.99/month - technology has improved, Embarq has found more efficient ways of doing business including new revenue streams (google bar on the myembarq.com website, web packs with paid online services, etc.).
This latest attempt is definitely a failure, but I have seen the prices go down over the past few years, not up. -- DSLr Mafia Member. | |
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  Titus Pullo I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| There is no privacy once you leave your front door (and sometimes even when you haven't!).
The more the MBA generation insults my intelligence with corporate doublespeak, the more I steel my resolve not to buy. It's an action/reaction sorta thing. But they fail to get that part because to them we're all stupid asses with direct-pay.
Idiots -- | |
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  telcolackey The Truth? You can't handle the truth
join:2007-04-06 Death Valley, CA
| Privacy in general I agree this is a very slippery slope. When my ISP started this I immediately opted out and looked for an alternative.
Just as concerning is the level of private information collected by the Google browser pluggins, Gmail, Google desktop, etc. While to some extent this is user selectable (as ISPs are), Google does really own search on the Internet (~70%) and all the information that goes with it.
The growing monopoly and privacy issues Google does have are around the Adsense world. This should be even more concerning to the entire Internet population. Funny how there are no FCC or government limits on the level of ownership in this space. -- "Believe only half of what you see and nothing that you hear." - Dinah Craik | |
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 prack
join:2003-08-31 Columbus, OH
·WOW Internet and C..
| Soon the Class Action Law Suits I'm willing to bet that as soon as the use of Nebu-ad technology is deemed as an invasion of privacy, companies like WideOpenWest who used it will be caught in a court battle.
There's a reason that so many of these companies who were using this technology suddenly stopped it. The other shoe will drop and the ISP's will suddenly start acting like they were just innocent bystanders in all this. | |
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 SHABAZZ
join:2008-07-13 Seattle, WA | Reality check133; This is why I dont understand people who say Let private enterprise evolve and operate without government oversight. All industries need to be regulated! Because if they arent they pull this kind of sh**. | |
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  FastiBook
join:2003-01-08 Newtown, PA | It empowers them... To seek damages & file lawsuits. -- LETS GO METS! | |
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  CPUYODA
join:2003-01-25 Johnson City, TN | well.. The real problem is,..is that Embarq is the only DSL provider in alot areas,....and like me for example,..my only alternative is Comcast....so it's not like I have a real choice. -- "In God We Trust,All Others Pay Cash" | |
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 rob27 Premium join:2008-07-16 Mary Esther, FL
·Cox HSI
| block the ads take the time to block the ads. run ad filtering software such as admuncher
bingo.. PROBLEM SOLVED.
spend $24.00 and get rid of them.
(firefox extensions do NOT work on flash animated ads) -- »www.cband.info come join our IRC chat room and meet some new friends and listen to some good radio. We don't bite unless it's a piece of steak! | |
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 |   Phatbouy
@wideopenwest.com | Re: block the ads They do if you run the "flashblock" plugin. | |
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 |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02 | bingo.. PROBLEM SOLVED. Again, that stops ad delivery but not the sale of your browsing data for profit, which some users might prefer, especially considering that not giving them the choice could violate federal law. | |
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