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Ericsson Promises 500Mbps DSL
Though like other copper milking technologies, it may never arrive
It seems like at least twice a year, an engineer or company finds an innovative new way of milking some additional bandwidth out of copper -- though you'll note that none of these technologies ever see mass-market implementation. The latest, as explored by PC World, quotes Ericsson as saying they're developing new vectorized DSL technology capable of 500Mbps "soon." Ericsson says they're using six copper pairs to obtain these speeds at 500 meters, though they admit that extra pairs often aren't available at many locations -- and that fiber will still be a better bet in many situations:
quote:
Vectorized very high bit rate DSL2 will be used for enterprise and residential broadband, as well as backhaul for mobile base stations, according to McCullough. The introduction of vectoring, and the capacity improvements that comes with it, will help copper stay a viable option to fiber for broadband networks. The question when that will no longer be the case always gets the same answer: a couple of years from now, according to McCullough.
Ericsson also admits that you may as well go with fiber where "finacially viable." Keep in mind we're still waiting for mass hardware that supports even two bonded pair regular VDSL2 -- something AT&T hopes to use to offer U-Verse speeds faster than 18Mbps at longer loop lengths.
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Ignite
Premium Member
join:2004-03-18
UK

1 edit

Ignite

Premium Member

Selective Quote

Somewhat selective quote Karl, after that part of the quote comes 'Then stuff like this comes along, he said.' - isn't a good sales pitch if they quote a 2 year life span for the tech.

Ericsson are quite honest about what they're doing and they do admit fibre is the way to go, they also know a lot of companies don't want the CapEx involved, here's a nice bodge to sweat the copper some more.

Can't see it being huge though, bonded ADSL2+ was hardly huge...

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Re: Selective Quote

Let the phone companies start running trunks of cable.. like 1000 pairs to each sub. LOL.

Sad sad sad. Great idea.

Ignite
Premium Member
join:2004-03-18
UK

Ignite

Premium Member

Re: Selective Quote

said by ITALIAN926:

Let the phone companies start running trunks of cable.. like 1000 pairs to each sub. LOL.

Sad sad sad. Great idea.
Given the allergy some have to fibre it wouldn't surprise.

tschmidt
MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Consolidated Com..
·Republic Wireless
·Hollis Hosting

tschmidt

MVM

Why is this news?

VDSL2 has been around for several years. At 1500 feet speed is about 80 Mbps. Spec supports bonding two pairs to double data rate.

BBR article points out AT&T is planning to using pair bonding for U-Verse.
»telephonyonline.com/acce ··· uts_bet/

Vectorized VDSL sounds like a clever marketing term of little substance. 500/6 = 83 Mbps so all this seems to be is using six-pairs instead of two. For individual customers single pair is enough to deliver multiple HDTV channels along with Internet access. However this only works by installing Remote DSLAMs at substantial cost. One has to wonder at wisdom of continued massive investment prolonging life of copper plant vs overbuilding new fiberoptic outside plant optimized for data?

/tom
PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR

1 recommendation

PDXPLT

Member

Re: Why is this news?

said by tschmidt:

Vectorized VDSL sounds like a clever marketing term of little substance.
No, the "vectorized" part really is an additional technology tweak. The crosstalk coming from adjacent pairs is cancelled out, and that crosstalk is the major impairment that DSL has to overcome. It's akin to the MIMO technology used in 802.11n, and similar techniques used in 1G and 10G Ethernet.
me1212
join:2008-11-20
Lees Summit, MO

me1212

Member

Cool but 500 meters ain't much.

I can walk that in a few min.

hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium Member
join:2005-06-29
Florence, SC

hayabusa3303

Premium Member

sounds more like a pipe dream to att.

when will people give up on copper?

alchav
join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT

alchav

Member

Re: sounds more like a pipe dream to att.

said by hayabusa3303:

when will people give up on copper?
Amen Brother.....Put Wireless in there too, people keep wishing and praying to use old technology or something without wire. Fiber is the only way to go, just give in and let's get on with it!
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88 to hayabusa3303

Member

to hayabusa3303
said by hayabusa3303:

when will people give up on copper?
When the USF stops paying for its upkeep.

keyboard5684
Sam
join:2001-08-01
Pittsburgh, PA

keyboard5684

Member

May as well run ethernet?

300 meters is the "limit" for 100Mbps ethernet so why not just run ethernet if you were going to do something like this?

Problem is, they keep trying to use EXISTING copper/infrastructure when if we are down to 500 or 300 meters, run new cable... or FIBER!

This "technology" is not worth mentioning. I can get 600Mbps if I bond 12 pairs together! Geez.

Here is a link to just a few examples of the technology already there, just nobody cares except in a corporate building or something, not a carrier picking it up...
Patton 12.8 Mbps at 4,500 feet
Or the 155Mbps at 4000ft

Just Google it, there are tons of ways to do this.
The technology exists, just fiber makes more sense.

Ignite
Premium Member
join:2004-03-18
UK

Ignite

Premium Member

Re: May as well run ethernet?

Have to love that the 155Mbps is 'up to' 155Mbps total throughput at 'up to' 4000ft. So long as you have the units near as damnit next to each other you can get 100M one way 55M the other.

The other is 12.5Mbit of DSL rate, and equals a 10Mbit data rate.

keyboard5684
Sam
join:2001-08-01
Pittsburgh, PA

keyboard5684

Member

Re: May as well run ethernet?

Yes, but my point is that you can keep milking the copper as long as you want, the technologies to do so are all over the place. The thing is, the people who own the copper are going to use DSL or run fiber at this point.

I just think these stories of achievements are nothing special, this article is just picking and choosing.

Everything over existing copper is "up to" because you cannot predict the quality of the copper. A T1 for example is run over existing copper, it is just repeated every 4,000 feet. You see the round small tub like things mounted on the telephone poles everywhere. A T1 can be stretched a lot farther, but they want to avoid that up to crap and just make sure it works.

And that is why DSL is so limited, quality of copper and why it has to be designed to scale back when needed. All xDSL modems will scale back when the copper is crappy, it has to or it will not work. A good example is heat, on a hot day your DSL speed may actually drop back because of resistance.

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena

Premium Member

6 copper pairs over 500 meters?

Are you kidding me? Most houses only have 2 pairs (for two lines) and 500 meters means you almost have have the CO in your line of sight from the livingroom.

This may be of interest for businesses with a lot of copper pairs for voice lines, that just happen to be NEIGHBORS of the local telco company.
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Sammer

Member

Re: 6 copper pairs over 500 meters?

Running those 4 extra pairs is going to be more expensive than fiber. How many pairs will they need to run out to 20,000 meters the approximate limit of one optical fiber?
me1212
join:2008-11-20
Lees Summit, MO

me1212

Member

Could they do this via wireless?

Like instead of running all that wire y not out up a tower that has signals that go farther than 500m?

keyboard5684
Sam
join:2001-08-01
Pittsburgh, PA

keyboard5684

Member

Re: Could they do this via wireless?

Fixed wireless? Here are a few.

But the cost is the same all said and done.

Really just run the fiber?

Coax also has more capacity than copper pairs over distance, if anyone likes that idea.
me1212
join:2008-11-20
Lees Summit, MO

me1212

Member

Re: Could they do this via wireless?

I know, I'm just saying if they want to use it like that wireless seems better to me. Fiber would work better. But if they want to have no cables to people's houses wireless is the way to go.

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium Member
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1

1 edit

Anonymous_ to keyboard5684

Premium Member

to keyboard5684
said by keyboard5684:

Coax also has more capacity than copper pairs over distance, if anyone likes that idea.
all ready being done by cable co's

have you ever heard of a cable modem?
csnyder3
join:2007-09-10
Grand Rapids, MI

csnyder3

Member

Better for in-building DSL

I've stayed at hotels that used DSL over their internal wiring to connect the rooms (rather than wifi or ethernet); I'm assuming that they had a CO-equivalent in the basement. This could be useful for those kinds of situations - office buildings, for instance, are often wired to the hilt with copper for multi-line PBX's.

keyboard5684
Sam
join:2001-08-01
Pittsburgh, PA

keyboard5684

Member

Re: Better for in-building DSL

The hotels that do this, at least the ones I was able to find out how they accomplished this, made a deal with the phone company or a local ISP.

Hotels really do not have an IT staff usually so they end up hiring an outside company to do it. If they make a deal with a telco, which will do DSL to the rooms, then the telco has to support it instead of the desk clerk.
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

who would be interested?

well, maybe AT&T is interested.. because running fiber to the home is just about the last thing they want to do for residential customers today in 2009 and beyond.. so they'll look to the mythical creature they call next generation DSL broadband technologies to deliver that magical disneyworld experience of future technologies that underperform and go through a vaporware existence... right next to the " it's a small world exhibit "
33358088 (banned)
join:2008-09-23

33358088 (banned)

Member

ericcison with a 10GB CAP

muahha bUT ITS SO FAST
green_ranger
join:2008-12-27
Indianapolis, IN

green_ranger

Member

AT&T DSL need to get their act together.

I can't even get the advertised 6Mbps down on a dryloop line (only get about 4-4.5 down.

Why don't AT&T invest in providing more DSLAMs in their supported regions so that we can at least get some decent speeds. I'm seriously thinking about returning to cable highspeed which is now at 10-16Mbps down.

CaptainRR
Premium Member
join:2006-04-21
Blue Rock, OH

CaptainRR

Premium Member

Re: AT&T DSL need to get their act together.

Your lucky I have AT&T and can't even get DSL. On a good day when at home I get 19.2 dialup.

Scatcatpdx
Fur It Up
join:2007-06-22
Portland, OR

Scatcatpdx

Member

Makes Sense

Think of it this way, bonded DSL is putting a still good resource to use. Even if one replaces a few circuits with fiber You go a load of already buried and paid for copper circuits ready to be used.