 
KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Banned for life? Good thing they have generous social welfare in Europe, when they start banning teenagers for P2P and then they become welfare for life recipients. Good plan. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| Re: Banned for life? said by KrK  :Good thing they have generous social welfare in Europe, when they start banning teenagers for P2P and then they become welfare for life recipients. Good plan. It is a 1 year ban. A year won't scar them for life. Maybe it will teach them to respect other's property and and become law abiding citizens.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Banned for life? Teach 'em to use others WiFi, you mean. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | The French law mentions the 1 year period. But the description says "Permanently."
Also, the articles don't mention anything about a limited term on the UK version. | |
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Pv8man999
@wideopenwest.com
| ya, teach those people not to use file sharing programs.
Kick everybody off, that will help their ISP's retain customers and to respect the RIAA, MPAA's loss in sales that they directly blame on P2P programs without any proof.
yes let's all respect the RIAA's "ART" that they leech from. | |
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jrobert69
How High?
Premium
join:2001-05-19
Rochester, NH | The almighty has spoken. Such a tool
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Spring at last | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
edit:
July 6th, @07:44PM
| Re: Banned for life? said by jrobert69 :The almighty has spoken. Such a tool And such a pathetic non-responsive answer. | |
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| | | | wispalord
join:2007-09-20
House Springs, MO | Re: Banned for life? lol i have another one "F*UCK THEM!" | |
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arafey
@snet.net | Respect other's property?! What the hell are you talking about? When people file share, they ARE NOT stealing from the developer since that original file was most likely (99%) bought legally and is being shared to other people LEGALLY. | |
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disconnected
@snet.net
 from:
ACompromiser
Nerdtalker
| Re: Need same law in U.S. as well "There ought to be a law!!!"
---famous cry for a more collectivist-totalitarian society. Save it for Europe. America was based on Individual Rights and is on a different track. And we can still bring it back on track, with a revival of the founder's principals. | |
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tater_gunz
Shoot to kill
Premium
join:2003-08-22
Toledo, OH | Wow. Just... wow.
- Tate | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| no the MPAA and the RIAA need to stop their hardline tactics and refusal to embrace the 21st century.
P2P isnt causing them any losses that could be noticed, making absolute shit that nobody wants to see/hear is.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| cornelius785
join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA | are you a paid shill for the MPAA or RIAA? | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
edit:
July 6th, @07:29PM
| Re: say... said by cornelius785 :are you a paid shill for the MPAA or RIAA? Every time the accusation of industry shill is trotted out, this will be the reply:
"This mode of reasoning is a logical fallacy known as ad hominem: attacking the person presenting the argument, instead of pointing out a flaw in their actual argument. It’s a fallacy because even if the criticism of the person is true, his argument may still be valid. You can only tell if the argument is valid by examining the actual argument to see if it is actually valid.
Attacking the person instead of the argument they present is intellectually lazy. It’s a substitute for thinking. It’s also 100% flawed reasoning: you don’t arrive at the conclusion from the argument presented."
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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| | | karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
Nashua, NH
 ·Fairpoint Communic..
| Re: say... "Shill" can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws. In this sense, they would be an implicit "shill" for the industry at large, as their income is tied to its prosperity.
The term is applied metaphorically to commentators who have vested interests in or associations with parties in a controversial issue. Usually this takes the form of pretending to be offering news when in fact they are simply repeating "talking points" offered by a corporate benefactor.
Do you deny the fact that you get income from **ASSASS members? Do you deny the fact that ALL your posts are pro **ASSASS supporing?
If so, then by all logical definition, you ARE a shill.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: say... said by karlmarx :If so, then by all logical definition, you ARE a shill. Every time the accusation of industry shill is trotted out, this will be the reply:
"This mode of reasoning is a logical fallacy known as ad hominem: attacking the person presenting the argument, instead of pointing out a flaw in their actual argument. It's a fallacy because even if the criticism of the person is true, his argument may still be valid. You can only tell if the argument is valid by examining the actual argument to see if it is actually valid.
Attacking the person instead of the argument they present is intellectually lazy. It's a substitute for thinking. It's also 100% flawed reasoning: you don't arrive at the conclusion from the argument presented."
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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myosh
join:2001-05-03
Cupertino, CA
edit:
July 7th, @05:26PM
| Re: say... So I guess that means you are an RIAA/MPAA shill?  | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: say... said by myosh :LOL! Obviously, you didn't see the at the end of my post. I guess my attempt at sarcasm failed. Oh well. But seriously, you *are* a shill aren't you? OK, OK, I won't say it anymore. Have a nice day! The smiley character doesn't come across well on text.dslreports.com when using a Nokia N810 internet tablet. Sorry for missing it. I am sitting outside on the deck and not using my desktop right now.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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| | NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| What do you do about folks, such as I, who haven't bought an RIAA, or MPAA property in two, or three years? It isn't that I am not spending my money, nor that I am "pirating" what I listen to, or watch. But my money follows the good stuff. If the **AAs had stuff half as good as J-Pop, I'd be spending half as much money as I am; and spending it here in the USA, instead of sending it off to the Land of the Rising Sun.
Losses due to piracy my ass; they are losing because they are publishing stuff which isn't worth shit.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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Nightshade
My political statement
Premium
join:2002-05-26
Salem, OR | And why should it be the ISPs responsibility for what I CHOOSE to download or upload?
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True Happiness Must Come From Within | |
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JokerCPoC
join:2005-11-21
Yermo, CA
·Verizon west (ex G..
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by TK Junk Mail :The U.S. needs a similar law so that ISPs are forced to dump those who repeatedly get caught UPLOADING copyrighted material. It is the ISPs who know what account is tied to what IP address and are in the only position to identify the abusers. And ignorance should not be an excuse for those households caught. No "my grandchildren or children did it". No "I thought I was only downloading and didn't know P2P uploaded as well". No "But I need it for my job" or other lame excuses. You get caught, you get disconnected. And those caught should have their name & address added to a database so that other ISPs won't accept an account from them. I agree the US needs a law, But getting Congress to act may take a while. And to others out there I don't work for anybody in the RIAA, MPAA or otherwise, Theft is Theft that's all, Just cause You can download something possibly stolen doesn't mean one should.
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(26.04GHz crunching for SETI with the PC Perspective Killer Frogs) | |
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RedXII1234
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-26
localhost | Re: Need same law in U.S. as well If we don't behave, they'll reduce our chocolate ration. | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| The US doesn't need a law because it would never be operated properly and people would loose internet because of Illegally collected "evidence" by Goonsquads like Media Defender.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by TK Junk Mail :The U.S. needs a similar law so that ISPs are forced to dump those who repeatedly get caught UPLOADING copyrighted material. It is the ISPs who know what account is tied to what IP address and are in the only position to identify the abusers. Have you ever been wrongfully accused of a malicious act? Any law requiring imposition of sanctions (i.e., cutting off Internet access) should also require a standard of proof akin to, "beyond a reasonable doubt". As contrasted with merely recovering damage for a tort.
The MPAA/RIAA has a poor track record for presentation of accurate data in their allegations.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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inferno
join:2008-07-06 | o god... I hope that doesn't come to the US... | |
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| ja2007123
join:2007-10-06 | Re: o god... oh god, i hope it does. | |
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metalhawk
join:2007-02-06
Nepean, ON
| Re: o god... said by ja2007123 :oh god, i hope it does. Just wait until the day you're accused despite not having done anything, like many people getting those warnings for no reason. I'm sure you'll still like it then, right? | |
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zipjay
join:2003-03-11
Louisville, KY
| lol LoL, if it came to the US.. i can see it now... grandmas getting banned cuz of grandkids, neighbors getting banned because joe smith next door used their connection for p2p, not to mention.. if lets say i got banned then we get internet under different household member names everytime we get banned, then parents, then other relatives... eventually the whole country is banned LOL plus how is lets say insight gonna tell another isp like charter that i was banned on their network? so if its only per isp theres ALOT of chances to get banned over and over and over.. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: lol Not really. And once you're banned from one option, the other option can just rip you and rape you.
All this would do, much like the War on Drugs and the like, is make more people into criminals, and make them more opt to drop out of being productive members of society.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
|  The proposed amendments
Amendment K2 authorises the automatic processing of traffic data without the consent of the user, if this treatment is practiced to ensure "the safety of a public service of
electronic communication, a public or private electronic communications , a service of the information society and electronic communicating equipment.
Amendment H1 gives the European Commission the power to give recommendations about restrictions on "lawful content" access and distribution, or on execution of "lawful applications or services".
Amendement H2 introduces the concept of cooperation between ISP and producers under the control of national regulation authorities.
Amendement H3
Members state shall ensure that national regulatory authorities oblige the undertakings
referred in paragraph 4 to distribute public interest information to existing and new
subscribers when appropriate. Such information shall be produced by the relevant public
authorities in a standardised format and may inter alia cover the following topics :
(a) illegal uses of electronic communications services, particularly where it may
prejudice respect for the rights and freedoms of others, including infrigement of copyright and
related rights ;
(b) the most common illegal uses of electronic communications services, including
copyright infrigement, and their consequences; and
(c) means of protection against risks to personal security, privacy and personal data in
using electronic communications services.
Significant additional costs incurred by an undertaking in complying with these obligations
shall be reinbursed by the national regulatory authority.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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| | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: The proposed amendments Perhaps you missed the "recommendations" word in there. | |
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bigunk
Gort, Klattu Birada Nikto
join:2001-02-10
Santa Clarita, CA | I want my PORN!!! Bad government!! Bad bad!! You have no right to restrict my porn downloads!! | |
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metalhawk
join:2007-02-06
Nepean, ON
| It's gonna get ugly Now the question is, how accurate is the detection and how much proof is necessary to count as a strike? How many people will be banned despite not having downloaded a thing? In North America, there's no accountability for the MAFIAA. They accuse you, that's good enough in their books.
Also, do you deserve to be banned because you are not a tech geek and didn't know that you need to secure your wireless connection? I'm sure that grandma doesn't know that.
Let the false accusations begin! | |
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DOStradamus
MVM
join:2003-11-04
Santa Rosa, CA
| Re: It's gonna get ugly said by metalhawk :Now the question is, how accurate is the detection and how much proof is necessary to count as a strike? Detection? Let me show you two excerpts from an actaal DMCA letter that show what the content industry considers "evidence" enough, to demand immediate action from an ISP that could severly interfere with an innocent wreronlgy accused person's ability to engage in his trade and earn his living:
Dear (ISP):
We are writing this letter on behalf of Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.
> ("Warner
> Bros.").
>
> We have received information that an individual has utilized the
> below-referenced IP address at the noted date and time to offer downloads of
> copyrighted motion picture(s) through a "peer-to-peer" service, including
> such title(s)
> as:
>
> The Fountain
>
> The distribution of unauthorized copies of copyrighted motion pictures
> constitutes copyright infringement under the Copyright Act, Title 17 United
> States Code Section 106(3). This conduct may also violate the laws of other
> countries, international law, and/or treaty
> obligations.
>
> Since you own this IP address (AAA.BBB.CCC.DDD), we request that you
> immediately do the
> following:
>
> 1) Disable access to the individual who has engaged in the conduct described
> above;
Now, look at the four lines snipped from the "Infringement Detail" summary:
Infringing Work: The Fountain
> Filepath: Rush.torrent
> Filename: 03 - Caress of Steel (1975)_05 - The Fountain of Lamneth.flac
Filesize: 112,349k
Accurate? ... Evidence?
The file was too small to hold the paylaod they were claiming it to be, and the file extension was not for a file format capable of holding same.
Two words was all it took. Two words in a long filename. That's enough to "convict" in their opinion.
This means, their detection algorithm could concievably generate a complaint from the righs holder of the movie "Firefox" (1984, w/Clint Eastwood), for someone completely innocent -- Ever hear of an app named "Firefox"?
-NK | |
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| | jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
 ·ViaTalk
| Re: It's gonna get ugly Err... there's a very simple solution to this, as spelled out in the law -- notify the complaining party that they do not own the copyright to the file in question. There's nothing in the law saying the ISP has to "disable access to an individual".
Most companies don't do everything that's asked of them in fancy legalese-sounding letters, or they aren't in business long. | |
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LilYoda
Feline with squirel personality disorder
Premium
join:2004-09-02
Mountains
| Actually the Hadopi law in France includes a "non-securitazion of internet access" misdemeanor... It also places a burden on the ISP to provide "approved security systems" to their users. So yeah, as long as the ISP has sent an email to grandma telling her there is a approved prgram she must install, and that grandma doesn't, then yeah, grandma is legally responsible in court for whatever happens on her network. Nice huh?
I can see from a mile away that those systems provided by ISPs will only work on windows, and might even be trojan type loggers installed on the PC.
Now what's funny is when those systems are going to be hacked, and that the users will be charged with the misdemeanor anyway.
Oh, and in the plans, if you refuse to use those systems, good luck trying to defend yourself in court if you get caught (whether it is your fault or not)
WiFi hacking is going to be a sport this side of the pond. And I foresee the number of hotspots dropping dramatically over the next 2 to 3 years.
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Nicotine reaches and triggers the reward circuits of the brain in 7 seconds. Beat THAT, Work! | |
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id_deleted
join:2003-05-01
Salt Lake City, UT
| It's a losing battle Sooner or later the RIAA will succeed in their goal to prevent illegal file downloading of copyrighted songs.
That is why it may be important for you to support new technology like HD RadioPC, that allows you to easily record songs that HD Radio stations broadcast to mp3 files. HD Radio is a digital version of the radio broadcast and the recordings are near CD quality (better than the mp3's you buy).
The RIAA cannot stop this technology due to laws that protect your right to record radio station broadcasts that use our public airwaves. | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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trent25
join:2005-11-28
Philadelphia, PA | what's next? Chop the offender's hands and poke their eyes out, so that you can make sure they'll never download an illegal file ever again!
This is just becoming crazy! | |
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metalhawk
join:2007-02-06
Nepean, ON | Re: Time to give the copyright holders heart burn. I like it! | |
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| Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL | Re: France is still standing? Remind me to cut the cheese, frequently, the next time I am visiting France. | |
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| Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
·Comcast
| Re: The provlem with three strikes anti-p2p laws like this one  The ISP's and copyright control agencies flunkies such as MediaDefender and MediaSentry need to be held accountable if they make mistakes. The copyright agencies flunkies must be held accountable and subject to fines if they incorrectly identify an IP address as being used to share copyrighted materials when it in fact is not. The ISP's must be held accountable and subject to fines if they identify the wrong subscriber as using the IP address in question to share copyrighted material. Careful tracking of copyright sharing violations must be maintained. That will prevent the copyright control agencies from puffing the number of incidents in order to weasel the Federal Legislative Branch into passing more draconian laws that will reduce or eliminate Fair Use. Historically the RIAA and ASCAP has always been against home recording of copyrighted materials. During the recession of 1980 the music industry pointed to home taping as the major cause of the slow down in music sales. In fact the music industry attempted to have a law passed to require that all consumer recorders to contain a copyrighted music signal (tone) detector to disable the recording process. In 1986 the National Bureau of Standards evaluated the technology and determined that the tone could not be removed without unacceptably distorting the music the customer was purchasing. The government in a brief moment of rational thinking rejected the music cartel's efforts to pass the law. | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Mission Viejo, CA
clubs: | Tools Every Where Rejoice!! You know who you are. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| Three strikes is fine. If you got caught and convicted of file sharing 3 times, you probably pawned your computer long ago and could never again afford to pay a 20 dollar monthly fee. At that point all your assets are probably gone and you are either on welfare or working at some small business for cash under the table. | |
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a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Corona, NY | Re: Three strikes is fine. Geez... I'm soo scared that I won't have teh interwebs for 1 year... I guess they don't have unsecured WiFi in France? How about paid coffeshop WiFi? This is pathetic............ | |
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AlexNYC
join:2001-06-02
Edwards, CO
edit:
July 7th, @11:07AM
|  Few problems ...
ISP's are responsible for the infrastructure just like for example the DOT (Department of Transportation). Enforcing the law is better left to the appropriate Law Enforcement agencies.
Just like the Police issues traffic citations on the roads and not the car manufacturers or the DOT agents to private vehicles. (Yes, I know DOT has some enforcement roles when it comes to commercial vehicles, but lets not get into this.)
... And another thing ... people need to learn how to encrypt their P2P traffic. It is super easy on most modern torrent client applications. | |
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id_deleted
join:2003-05-01
Salt Lake City, UT
| What would P2P encryption accomplish? I have never used P2P to download any file, let alone an illegal one, so please forgive my ignorance here. I am bit confused as to what good encryption would do to protect the identity of the person serving the file?
So far the RIAA lawsuits have conentrated on those making the files available for download for the most part, rather than those downloading the files. I am sure their idea is to eliminate the supply, and consumption will follow.
I would assume that somewhere in the process there would be a clear text listing pointing to the files available for download on a particular system? | |
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randomness
@cox.net
| Re: What would P2P encryption accomplish? And if we look at the news the current president in france isnt winning over anyone of the 'common' man. Laws really are a joke they arent made to protect people most are made for political gain or because goverment officals are paid to play.
Keep in mind the MPAA and RIAA are in the news for wanting courts to agree to their belief that your "guilty untill proven innocent" and have stated that if they say your guilty then you must be.. proof isnt required.
Goverments expect people to 'obey' laws they dont want and to do and act like others expect them to. But, in the end all the goverments are suceeding in doing is helping to create and expand turning people into self defined criminals. Because anything can be defined as illegal... thats the same mess why the DMCA is causing so much trouble for people ... you can call it any name you want.
People who try to sit on this high and mighty pedestal saying "file sharing is bad" sadly dont live in reality. And if the best they can do is post on the board about how high and mighty this law will be needs to be beaten with a big reality stick...
For every law made that works against mankind 4 more laws will be created by the people to protect them...
The cycle never ends untill the goverment works to serve the people not the corperations. | |
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Europe Drafts Law To Stop Filesharers From Accessing Web
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The provlem with three strikes anti-p2p laws like this one