  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Banned for life? Good thing they have generous social welfare in Europe, when they start banning teenagers for P2P and then they become welfare for life recipients. Good plan. | |
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 |  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | Re: Banned for life? said by KrK:Good thing they have generous social welfare in Europe, when they start banning teenagers for P2P and then they become welfare for life recipients. Good plan. It is a 1 year ban. A year won't scar them for life. Maybe it will teach them to respect other's property and and become law abiding citizens.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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| | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Banned for life? Teach 'em to use others WiFi, you mean. | |
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| | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | The French law mentions the 1 year period. But the description says "Permanently."
Also, the articles don't mention anything about a limited term on the UK version. | |
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| | | | ya, teach those people not to use file sharing programs.
Kick everybody off, that will help their ISP's retain customers and to respect the RIAA, MPAA's loss in sales that they directly blame on P2P programs without any proof.
yes let's all respect the RIAA's "ART" that they leech from. | |
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| |  jrobert69How High?Premium
join:2001-05-19
Rochester, NH | The almighty has spoken. Such a tool
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Spring at last | |
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| | | Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4
2 edits | Re: Banned for life? said by jrobert69:The almighty has spoken. Such a tool And such a pathetic non-responsive answer. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Banned for life? lol i have another one "F*UCK THEM!" | |
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| | | | Respect other's property?! What the hell are you talking about? When people file share, they ARE NOT stealing from the developer since that original file was most likely (99%) bought legally and is being shared to other people LEGALLY. | |
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Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 |  Need same law in U.S. as well
And ignorance should not be an excuse for those households caught. No "my grandchildren or children did it". No "I thought I was only downloading and didn't know P2P uploaded as well". No "But I need it for my job" or other lame excuses. You get caught, you get disconnected.
And those caught should have their name & address added to a database so that other ISPs won't accept an account from them.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
|
|
approval from:
ACompromiser 
Nerdtalker
| Re: Need same law in U.S. as well "There ought to be a law!!!"
---famous cry for a more collectivist-totalitarian society. Save it for Europe. America was based on Individual Rights and is on a different track. And we can still bring it back on track, with a revival of the founder's principals. | |
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| KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | no the MPAA and the RIAA need to stop their hardline tactics and refusal to embrace the 21st century.
P2P isnt causing them any losses that could be noticed, making absolute shit that nobody wants to see/hear is.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | | are you a paid shill for the MPAA or RIAA? | |
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| | Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4
2 edits | Re: say... said by cornelius785:are you a paid shill for the MPAA or RIAA? Every time the accusation of industry shill is trotted out, this will be the reply:
"This mode of reasoning is a logical fallacy known as ad hominem: attacking the person presenting the argument, instead of pointing out a flaw in their actual argument. It’s a fallacy because even if the criticism of the person is true, his argument may still be valid. You can only tell if the argument is valid by examining the actual argument to see if it is actually valid.
Attacking the person instead of the argument they present is intellectually lazy. It’s a substitute for thinking. It’s also 100% flawed reasoning: you don’t arrive at the conclusion from the argument presented."
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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| | | | | Re: say... "Shill" can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws. In this sense, they would be an implicit "shill" for the industry at large, as their income is tied to its prosperity.
The term is applied metaphorically to commentators who have vested interests in or associations with parties in a controversial issue. Usually this takes the form of pretending to be offering news when in fact they are simply repeating "talking points" offered by a corporate benefactor.
Do you deny the fact that you get income from **ASSASS members? Do you deny the fact that ALL your posts are pro **ASSASS supporing?
If so, then by all logical definition, you ARE a shill.
--
The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity! | |
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| | | | Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | Re: say... said by karlmarx:If so, then by all logical definition, you ARE a shill. Every time the accusation of industry shill is trotted out, this will be the reply:
"This mode of reasoning is a logical fallacy known as ad hominem: attacking the person presenting the argument, instead of pointing out a flaw in their actual argument. It's a fallacy because even if the criticism of the person is true, his argument may still be valid. You can only tell if the argument is valid by examining the actual argument to see if it is actually valid.
Attacking the person instead of the argument they present is intellectually lazy. It's a substitute for thinking. It's also 100% flawed reasoning: you don't arrive at the conclusion from the argument presented."
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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| | | | |  myosh
join:2001-05-03
Cupertino, CA
1 edit | Re: say... So I guess that means you are an RIAA/MPAA shill?  | |
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| | | | | | Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | Re: say... said by myosh:So I guess that means you are an RIAA/MPAA shill? No. I'm not.
Every time the accusation of industry shill is trotted out, this will be the reply:
"This mode of reasoning is a logical fallacy known as ad hominem: attacking the person presenting the argument, instead of pointing out a flaw in their actual argument. It's a fallacy because even if the criticism of the person is true, his argument may still be valid. You can only tell if the argument is valid by examining the actual argument to see if it is actually valid.
Attacking the person instead of the argument they present is intellectually lazy. It's a substitute for thinking. It's also 100% flawed reasoning: you don't arrive at the conclusion from the argument presented."
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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| | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | Re: say... said by myosh:LOL! Obviously, you didn't see the at the end of my post. I guess my attempt at sarcasm failed. Oh well. But seriously, you *are* a shill aren't you? OK, OK, I won't say it anymore. Have a nice day! The smiley character doesn't come across well on text.dslreports.com when using a Nokia N810 internet tablet. Sorry for missing it. I am sitting outside on the deck and not using my desktop right now.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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| | NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:4 Reviews:
 ·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| What do you do about folks, such as I, who haven't bought an RIAA, or MPAA property in two, or three years? It isn't that I am not spending my money, nor that I am "pirating" what I listen to, or watch. But my money follows the good stuff. If the **AAs had stuff half as good as J-Pop, I'd be spending half as much money as I am; and spending it here in the USA, instead of sending it off to the Land of the Rising Sun.
Losses due to piracy my ass; they are losing because they are publishing stuff which isn't worth shit.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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| |
| | | And why should it be the ISPs responsibility for what I CHOOSE to download or upload?
--
True Happiness Must Come From Within | |
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| Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
| said by Romney2012:The U.S. needs a similar law so that ISPs are forced to dump those who repeatedly get caught UPLOADING copyrighted material. It is the ISPs who know what account is tied to what IP address and are in the only position to identify the abusers. And ignorance should not be an excuse for those households caught. No "my grandchildren or children did it". No "I thought I was only downloading and didn't know P2P uploaded as well". No "But I need it for my job" or other lame excuses. You get caught, you get disconnected. And those caught should have their name & address added to a database so that other ISPs won't accept an account from them. I agree the US needs a law, But getting Congress to act may take a while. And to others out there I don't work for anybody in the RIAA, MPAA or otherwise, Theft is Theft that's all, Just cause You can download something possibly stolen doesn't mean one should.
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(26.04GHz crunching for SETI with the PC Perspective Killer Frogs) | |
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| |  redxiiPremium,Mod
join:2001-02-26
Sherwood, MI | Re: Need same law in U.S. as well If we don't behave, they'll reduce our chocolate ration. | |
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| KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | The US doesn't need a law because it would never be operated properly and people would loose internet because of Illegally collected "evidence" by Goonsquads like Media Defender.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:4 Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by Romney2012:The U.S. needs a similar law so that ISPs are forced to dump those who repeatedly get caught UPLOADING copyrighted material. It is the ISPs who know what account is tied to what IP address and are in the only position to identify the abusers. Have you ever been wrongfully accused of a malicious act? Any law requiring imposition of sanctions (i.e., cutting off Internet access) should also require a standard of proof akin to, "beyond a reasonable doubt". As contrasted with merely recovering damage for a tort.
The MPAA/RIAA has a poor track record for presentation of accurate data in their allegations.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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| | o god... I hope that doesn't come to the US... | |
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| | | Re: o god... oh god, i hope it does. | |
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| | | | Re: o god... Just wait until the day you're accused despite not having done anything, like many people getting those warnings for no reason. I'm sure you'll still like it then, right? | |
|
zipjay
join:2003-03-11
South Williamson, KY Reviews:
 ·Suddenlink
| lol LoL, if it came to the US.. i can see it now... grandmas getting banned cuz of grandkids, neighbors getting banned because joe smith next door used their connection for p2p, not to mention.. if lets say i got banned then we get internet under different household member names everytime we get banned, then parents, then other relatives... eventually the whole country is banned LOL plus how is lets say insight gonna tell another isp like charter that i was banned on their network? so if its only per isp theres ALOT of chances to get banned over and over and over.. | |
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| KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: lol Not really. And once you're banned from one option, the other option can just rip you and rape you.
All this would do, much like the War on Drugs and the like, is make more people into criminals, and make them more opt to drop out of being productive members of society.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | The proposed amendments
Amendment K2 authorises the automatic processing of traffic data without the consent of the user, if this treatment is practiced to ensure "the safety of a public service of
electronic communication, a public or private electronic communications , a service of the information society and electronic communicating equipment.
Amendment H1 gives the European Commission the power to give recommendations about restrictions on "lawful content" access and distribution, or on execution of "lawful applications or services".
Amendement H2 introduces the concept of cooperation between ISP and producers under the control of national regulation authorities.
Amendement H3
Members state shall ensure that national regulatory authorities oblige the undertakings
referred in paragraph 4 to distribute public interest information to existing and new
subscribers when appropriate. Such information shall be produced by the relevant public
authorities in a standardised format and may inter alia cover the following topics :
(a) illegal uses of electronic communications services, particularly where it may
prejudice respect for the rights and freedoms of others, including infrigement of copyright and
related rights ;
(b) the most common illegal uses of electronic communications services, including
copyright infrigement, and their consequences; and
(c) means of protection against risks to personal security, privacy and personal data in
using electronic communications services.
Significant additional costs incurred by an undertaking in complying with these obligations
shall be reinbursed by the national regulatory authority.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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|  dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | Re: The proposed amendments WTF?
"Amendment H1 gives the European Commission the power to give recommendations about restrictions on "lawful content" access and distribution, or on execution of "lawful applications or services".
So, they can restrict "lawful content"?
Restrict "lawful applications or services"?
They don't like... Youtube - and they can hit you with a strike? 
They get a hardon for Pandora and El Strikeo? 
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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| |  jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: The proposed amendments Perhaps you missed the "recommendations" word in there. | |
|
 bigunkGort, Klattu Birada Nikto
join:2001-02-10
USA | I want my PORN!!! Bad government!! Bad bad!! You have no right to restrict my porn downloads!! | |
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| | It's gonna get ugly Now the question is, how accurate is the detection and how much proof is necessary to count as a strike? How many people will be banned despite not having downloaded a thing? In North America, there's no accountability for the MAFIAA. They accuse you, that's good enough in their books.
Also, do you deserve to be banned because you are not a tech geek and didn't know that you need to secure your wireless connection? I'm sure that grandma doesn't know that.
Let the false accusations begin! | |
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| | | Re: It's gonna get ugly said by metalhawk:Now the question is, how accurate is the detection and how much proof is necessary to count as a strike? Detection? Let me show you two excerpts from an actaal DMCA letter that show what the content industry considers "evidence" enough, to demand immediate action from an ISP that could severly interfere with an innocent wreronlgy accused person's ability to engage in his trade and earn his living:
Dear (ISP):
We are writing this letter on behalf of Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.
> ("Warner
> Bros.").
>
> We have received information that an individual has utilized the
> below-referenced IP address at the noted date and time to offer downloads of
> copyrighted motion picture(s) through a "peer-to-peer" service, including
> such title(s)
> as:
>
> The Fountain
>
> The distribution of unauthorized copies of copyrighted motion pictures
> constitutes copyright infringement under the Copyright Act, Title 17 United
> States Code Section 106(3). This conduct may also violate the laws of other
> countries, international law, and/or treaty
> obligations.
>
> Since you own this IP address (AAA.BBB.CCC.DDD), we request that you
> immediately do the
> following:
>
> 1) Disable access to the individual who has engaged in the conduct described
> above;
Now, look at the four lines snipped from the "Infringement Detail" summary:
Infringing Work: The Fountain
> Filepath: Rush.torrent
> Filename: 03 - Caress of Steel (1975)_05 - The Fountain of Lamneth.flac
Filesize: 112,349k
Accurate? ... Evidence?
The file was too small to hold the paylaod they were claiming it to be, and the file extension was not for a file format capable of holding same.
Two words was all it took. Two words in a long filename. That's enough to "convict" in their opinion.
This means, their detection algorithm could concievably generate a complaint from the righs holder of the movie "Firefox" (1984, w/Clint Eastwood), for someone completely innocent -- Ever hear of an app named "Firefox"?
-NK | |
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| | jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL Reviews:
 ·voip.ms
| Re: It's gonna get ugly Err... there's a very simple solution to this, as spelled out in the law -- notify the complaining party that they do not own the copyright to the file in question. There's nothing in the law saying the ISP has to "disable access to an individual".
Most companies don't do everything that's asked of them in fancy legalese-sounding letters, or they aren't in business long. | |
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|  LilYodaFeline with squirel personality disorderPremium
join:2004-09-02
Mountains | Actually the Hadopi law in France includes a "non-securitazion of internet access" misdemeanor... It also places a burden on the ISP to provide "approved security systems" to their users. So yeah, as long as the ISP has sent an email to grandma telling her there is a approved prgram she must install, and that grandma doesn't, then yeah, grandma is legally responsible in court for whatever happens on her network. Nice huh?
I can see from a mile away that those systems provided by ISPs will only work on windows, and might even be trojan type loggers installed on the PC.
Now what's funny is when those systems are going to be hacked, and that the users will be charged with the misdemeanor anyway.
Oh, and in the plans, if you refuse to use those systems, good luck trying to defend yourself in court if you get caught (whether it is your fault or not)
WiFi hacking is going to be a sport this side of the pond. And I foresee the number of hotspots dropping dramatically over the next 2 to 3 years.
--
Nicotine reaches and triggers the reward circuits of the brain in 7 seconds. Beat THAT, Work! | |
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| | It's a losing battle Sooner or later the RIAA will succeed in their goal to prevent illegal file downloading of copyrighted songs.
That is why it may be important for you to support new technology like HD RadioPC, that allows you to easily record songs that HD Radio stations broadcast to mp3 files. HD Radio is a digital version of the radio broadcast and the recordings are near CD quality (better than the mp3's you buy).
The RIAA cannot stop this technology due to laws that protect your right to record radio station broadcasts that use our public airwaves. | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
|
 trent7
join:2005-11-28
Philadelphia, PA | what's next? Chop the offender's hands and poke their eyes out, so that you can make sure they'll never download an illegal file ever again!
This is just becoming crazy! | |
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| | | Re: Time to give the copyright holders heart burn. I like it! | |
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| | France is still standing? France is still standing, because of this ruling? No protests, no riots. No plundering or pillaging before burning cities down. I guess the French have become soft, are in jail or just too damn busy downloading to notice new three-strikes-and-you're-out laws. Touche'
They really know how to throw a protest. Americans, with pad and pencil take notes on how the French protest, especially when they tell their own government stick it up your azz concerning a law or rule they disagree with.
BTW:If fine wine and aged cheese can go perfectly with a violent protest in France... Budweiser and Jack Daniels would do well to serve as refreshments here, should a mellow whine protest breakout or is that a type-out event happen here. 
--
It's easier to manipulate non-religious people, Ever hear of Communism?
With out religion your are more suceptable to manipulation. Look at china, they banned religion. It's much easier to manipulate people who don't have any religious convictions. | |
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| Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1 | Re: France is still standing? Remind me to cut the cheese, frequently, the next time I am visiting France. | |
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 Doctor FourMy other vehicle is a TARDISPremium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX |  The provlem with three strikes anti-p2p laws like this one
and MediaSentry, all use inaccurate detection methods for
identifying infringing material on filesharing networks. As
noted by that University Of Washington study where even
networked printers received DMCA notices, their methods are
flawed at best.
And what happens if a corporate IP address is wrongfully
flagged in this manner?
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
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 major marcoRes Firma Mitescere NescitPremium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA | Tools Every Where Rejoice!! You know who you are. | |
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| | Three strikes is fine. If you got caught and convicted of file sharing 3 times, you probably pawned your computer long ago and could never again afford to pay a 20 dollar monthly fee. At that point all your assets are probably gone and you are either on welfare or working at some small business for cash under the table. | |
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|  a333A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY | Re: Three strikes is fine. Geez... I'm soo scared that I won't have teh interwebs for 1 year... I guess they don't have unsecured WiFi in France? How about paid coffeshop WiFi? This is pathetic............ | |
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3 edits |  Few problems ...
ISP's are responsible for the infrastructure just like for example the DOT (Department of Transportation). Enforcing the law is better left to the appropriate Law Enforcement agencies.
Just like the Police issues traffic citations on the roads and not the car manufacturers or the DOT agents to private vehicles. (Yes, I know DOT has some enforcement roles when it comes to commercial vehicles, but lets not get into this.)
... And another thing ... people need to learn how to encrypt their P2P traffic. It is super easy on most modern torrent client applications. | |
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| | What would P2P encryption accomplish? I have never used P2P to download any file, let alone an illegal one, so please forgive my ignorance here. I am bit confused as to what good encryption would do to protect the identity of the person serving the file?
So far the RIAA lawsuits have conentrated on those making the files available for download for the most part, rather than those downloading the files. I am sure their idea is to eliminate the supply, and consumption will follow.
I would assume that somewhere in the process there would be a clear text listing pointing to the files available for download on a particular system? | |
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| | | Re: What would P2P encryption accomplish? And if we look at the news the current president in france isnt winning over anyone of the 'common' man. Laws really are a joke they arent made to protect people most are made for political gain or because goverment officals are paid to play.
Keep in mind the MPAA and RIAA are in the news for wanting courts to agree to their belief that your "guilty untill proven innocent" and have stated that if they say your guilty then you must be.. proof isnt required.
Goverments expect people to 'obey' laws they dont want and to do and act like others expect them to. But, in the end all the goverments are suceeding in doing is helping to create and expand turning people into self defined criminals. Because anything can be defined as illegal... thats the same mess why the DMCA is causing so much trouble for people ... you can call it any name you want.
People who try to sit on this high and mighty pedestal saying "file sharing is bad" sadly dont live in reality. And if the best they can do is post on the board about how high and mighty this law will be needs to be beaten with a big reality stick...
For every law made that works against mankind 4 more laws will be created by the people to protect them...
The cycle never ends untill the goverment works to serve the people not the corperations. | |
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4 edits | guilty until proven innocent does not apply to civil court A totally different set of rules there, you really should at least know what you are talking about before you spew your thoughts. As far as file sharing of copyrighted material being "Ok" : its not, simple as that. It costs the rest of us law abiding citizens for the time and effort developers provide to add additional copy protection to their software, not to mention the time we have to spend jumping through the copy protection hoops. When we purchase a pack of writable CD's or DVD's, a portion of the cost involved is the direct result of copyright infringement activity.
Many developers simply discontinue offering or supporting a software package once they become aware that it is being illegally distributed. I dont like the idea that the activities of a few "low lifes without jobs" can have such an extreme effect on my software options and my wallet.
If you were to remove all protection of intellectual property rights, then there will no longer be intellectual property available, as intelligent people are against tossing their hard work into a gutter of scumbags. We do not live in a society where common ownership is the basis of our financial structure; we protect our innovation with trademarks, patents, and copyrights. If you disagree with that concept then your are simply a communist, so move to North Korea and bend over. | |
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| | LEGAL Don't anyone get it?! File sharing is LEGAL in every aspect. If your friend bought a movie and let you take it, should the government come and chop off his hands so he can't give people movies anymore?! I don't think so! If this law comes to the US, I'll make sure that no one I know ever EVER buys a movie ever again. Are we Communist Russia now? Next the government will tap your phones without...oh wait they already do that too. Stop and think people, are we too different than the "enemy" of just a couple decades ago if we've become this restricted? | |
|
| | Well now... As long as corps can bribe the political class to constantly modify copyright laws in their favour and against free expression, we don't have any ethical obligation to those companies beyond not profitting of the work ourselves. The entertainment industry can pay billions in lawyers and lobbyists to have laws changed in their favour whereas we can't. Life + 70 is corporate fascism! | |
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4 edits | What if the tables were turned a bit What if the three-stike law applied to illegal spammers rather than filesharing? You know, the ones that send viagra and porn spam to your kids email address, an extention of the "can spam" act. I doubt we would see even a single argument here against its implemenation on a world wide scale.
There would not be even a single post from a scumbag spammer trying to justify their right to an illegal activity, nope, the most dispicable spammer would not stoop that low. 
So, just how do you think your stupid posts trying to justify illegal infringement activities look to the normal law abiding citizen? Perhaps about the same as the scumbag spammer trying to justify their activites on a public forum?
Its actually looked upon a lot worse than that, since the spammer is just out to improve profit margins, whereas the copyright infringer is really nothing but a thief. | |
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