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@comcast.net | So what's new This is going to get interesting. | |
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nutcr0cker
join:2003-04-02
Chandler, AZ
| They got what they invested in They invested in technology and got ahead in broadband we invested in GW and we have war and a looming depression. Isn't it you get what you pay(vote) for and sometimes you get more than you bargained for  | |
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Rob
In Deo speramus, God Bless the USA
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
 ·Comcast
| Re: They got what they invested in said by nutcr0cker  :They invested in technology and got ahead in broadband we invested in GW and we have war and a looming depression. Isn't it you get what you pay(vote) for and sometimes you get more than you bargained for Congratulations. Only took the 2nd post to mention Bush.
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www.rr.cx - My Blog
YourIP.US - It's Your IP .. and more!
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·T-Mobile US
| Re: They got what they invested in said by Rob :said by nutcr0cker :They invested in technology and got ahead in broadband we invested in GW and we have war and a looming depression. Isn't it you get what you pay(vote) for and sometimes you get more than you bargained for Congratulations. Only took the 2nd post to mention Bush. I congrat too because he's actually absolutely correct.
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Matt
Gone playing Dragon Age Origins
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
 ·North State Commun..
| Re: They got what they invested in said by Dogfather :No he's not. Verizon got billions in taxpayer benefits in PA and didn't deploy crap. Gov't screws up everything they do and spend 10X the money trying to do it. I have no interest in broadband by DMV. There is good reason Congressional approval is in the teens, they're 'tards. The DMV is state run, not federal.
The feds can do things right is properly motivated. Look at the military technology. | |
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floepie
join:2005-12-01
| That's because we as Americans have become afraid of our government. The government should fear us instead.
Once we elect those who are truly not beholden to special interests, then we can start to get things done. Don't hold the bar so low for them up there. | |
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floepie
join:2005-12-01
| Re: They got what they invested in You're a dying breed. The revolution is coming where we ALL will make the government do what is in the interest of the common man. It's high time the government fear us, and that we become more vigilant of what is actually going on.
Now's not the time to cower in fear! | |
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| | | | | | | | Mordhem
Love it, Hate it.
join:2003-07-10
Baltimore, MD
·Comcast
| Re: They got what they invested in Vary well said brother, me and my boss was talking about this a few days ago.
Dark days are soon to come for the working class. The hardest people hit will be us that represent the small company's, and medium size company's. I can't say all employers are good, I can also say I wont miss some of them. But it makes no sense to hurt the people who are providing the jobs. All this will cause is employers to fire and release people because they can no longer afford them.
As the saying goes when it rains it pours but if there is no rain there will be a drought. The only thing we can do is plan for the worst and invest with your company if they offer anything to invest in that is.
Many people don't see if you hurt the small company's they will just close there doors and not reinvest there money.
The Gov just takes my money and I don't get a reach around, its just sad I don't what they do offer Only thing I really use of the Gov's is the road ways they built.... My company pays my benefit's, I pay for my house, I pay for my electric, I pay for my car, Hell I pay the gov. This will never end though and I think we all know this, but I still hope for the day a true man of his word gets in office and cleans house, until that day I just hope people are careful where they put there trust. Anyways I will end this rant here. | |
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ureihcim
Freshly made
join:2007-12-16
Miami, FL | The BS ignorance continues with all of you, it never ceases to amaze me. | |
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| | etaadmin
join:2002-01-17
Dallas, TX
| said by Rob :Congratulations. Only took the 2nd post to mention Bush. For a bushie you appear to be too smart quoting Julius Ceasar.
Bis interimitur qui suis armis perit
Anyway the 2nd post is right | |
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| | | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | Re: They got what they invested in Ughhh...I thought natural selection would've taken care of the people who think anyone not afflicted with BDS is a "bushie". | |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | I'd rather not be in the 80% tax bracket and buy my own service. | |
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| bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | Man....that has to be the best start and worst finish I've ever seen on DSLR. | |
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Dagda1175
join:2001-06-17
Goleta, CA | Dipshit! they also have taxes we'd never stand for. | |
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firephoto
KDE
Premium
join:2003-03-18 | 504,000,000,000 reasons Surely some domestic investment wouldn't have hurt our own country? | |
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Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Sarasota, FL
clubs:
1 edit | Studies and more studies Ok, so 8 countries top us. And just yesterday the study released was that more than 50% of those customers were unhappy with the service. So while they have better penetration, it seems the penetration is in an uncomfortable place. (no, not like the back of a VW) | |
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| Bill03
Premium
join:2007-11-26
Richmond, VA
clubs: | Re: Studies and more studies To put even more perspective on flyingjoey's comment you could pretty much fit those 8 countries into Texas. I think a more useful statistic would be how many people have a broadband connection opportunity and hook up. | |
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EU citizen
@as9105.com | Re: Studies and more studies hey big American boy, Texas is big but not so much.... and it is certainly less populated than the UK or France. It's high time US citizens learned there's not just them in the world... | |
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| | | Bill03
Premium
join:2007-11-26
Richmond, VA
clubs:
| Re: Studies and more studies Let's keep the insults out of it, shall we? I arrived at that statement by looking those countries up in Wikipedia, adding their square kilometers and then comparing that sum to the square kilometers given for Texas.
I didn't make that statement just because I live here. I made it because those are the facts. My opinion on articles such as these is that they are implying a lack of broadband deployment in the US. I think these sort of articles miss the mark since geographic considerations are in play here.
I would ask that in future comments you leave out what appears to be a rather provincial anti-American attitude. | |
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Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Sarasota, FL
clubs:
| Re: Studies and more studies There is really no point trying to discuss anything with an anon poster several days after the fact. This portion of the news comments has long been buried, and only registered users would get the thread update.
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Premium
join:2007-11-26
Richmond, VA
clubs: | Re: Studies and more studies Point taken. | |
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flyingjoey
join:2005-11-07
Jersey City, NJ | .... and now what? It does help that all of this countries are 1/4 of the size of the US and that EU countries tend to help out each other. | |
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JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL | Taxes- How much are you willing to pay. Denmark- 38-59% + VAT 25%
Finland- 10-48% + VAT 22%
Netherlands- 0-52% + VAT 19%
Sweden- 0-56% + VAT 6-25%
USA- 0-35% NO VAT
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
3 edits | Re: Taxes- How much are you willing to pay. said by JSRoman :Denmark- 38-59% + VAT 25% Finland- 10-48% + VAT 22% Netherlands- 0-52% + VAT 19% Sweden- 0-56% + VAT 6-25% USA- 0-35% NO VAT 1. Are you high? Do you even know WTF VAT means actually?
Stop posting false info, pls.
For cvlueless trolls: value-added tax equals to our sales tax.
Here in NYC we have 8.38% and AFAIK it's between 4% and 10% in US states.
2. They all have top-notch universal healthcare, included in taxes, most also include quality basic and secondary education as well (not worthless one like we have here). We have BS and parasitic war industry costs included, not healthcare or any social services in our taxes.
Somehow we keep financing this giant, megalomaniac, parasitic military-industrial complex - exactly the one Eisenhower, the five-star general and later President warned about: "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex... Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together." | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: Taxes- How much are you willing to pay. said by Dogfather :VAT is a national sales tax and it's massive. He knows exactly what it is. Apparently neither of you do.:P VAT and sales tax belong to the the same taxation concept: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_tax
And no, they don't have top-notch healthcare. They have endless wait lists for even the most basic procedures and the gov'ts are going bankrupt from it.
Classic BS from some right-wing nutcase propaganda brochure - have you lived there? Of course not otherwise you wouldn't parrot this false crap. I did and I know exactly why French or Spanish healthcare system and quality is far ahead of this mess we have here. Funny part that UK one is also a really good one and it is entirely gov-run, like in a Communist state.
Bankrupt? ROFLMAO!!! Did you check the balance sheets of the any industry here i.e. auto? US is completely wrecked by these artificially cosmical healthcare costs which only make HMOs rich. Most EU countries of have different problems - immigration - but even so Spain is enjoying 10+ years of continuous 3.5%+ GDP growth, France has the #1 healthcare system of the world AFAIK and their problem is their laziness - 35 hours week? - and other things, not really healthcare is their main issue.
No amount of liberal wishful thinking can change the disaster that socialized medicine in Canada and Europe is.
ROFLMAO - do you watch news?  I mean REAL NEWS, not some FauxNoise-like BS outlet.
I doubt otherwise you'd be aware of the CRISIS this country is in, thanks to the rightwing-nutcase agenda you're apparently praising.
Their schools are better because they aren't crippled by the corruption of the NEA.
I don't know about that but IMO they are better because they run the schools differently than we do and they DO require much more work and they DO NOT downplay the importance of basic, lexical knowledge. In other words: less chit-chatting BS teaching, more serious hard work and real science and knowledge. I think American public schools are worthless. I'm sure there are examples but the amount of knowledge you get out of these schools with is simply laughable. HS knowledge requirements are on pair with those I had acquired by the time I was ~12. We need a complete turnaround in public elementary and secondary education here, the current system is utterly broken.
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Cuda
@sbcglobal.net
| Exactly right Carbidyne. The liberal conspiracy freaks don't generally read beyond the CNN headlines that teach them. "US bad... EU good". I've been to 27 countries and seen these wonderful services, they didnt seem so great to those thousands of rioters every couple months in France. It don't seem to keep 9 EU countries out of the top for murders list (US is 24th btw). Most EU countries pay well over 40% of there earnings in taxes. Almost all the top 25 most corrupt countries (source - Transparency International) are EU. US rated #1 highest Civil and Political Liberties (Freedom House). US is ahead of all but 1 EU country in Economic Freedom (Heritage Foundation). Spain, UK, Russian, Poland, Canada and 121 other countries all have higher population of poor (CIA worldbook facts). Literacy rate in France, Italy, Spain is lower than US and Germany, Denmark, UK, Sweden, Belgium, Ireland, Japan, Australia, Canada, Switzerland are all equal to US (CIA Worldbook facts). US has a lower infant mortality rate then all EU countries. Most EU countries (and Canada, Australia, New Zealand) have a higher unemployment rate than the US. All EU countries scored lower then US on "total Happiness Rating" (World Values Survey). US ranked #1 in average years of schooling per adult (UNESCO). I have many more facts for you liberal sheep if you need them. See... thinking for yourself and researching really isnt that hard. You guys should try it sometime. | |
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factchecker
@cox.net
| Re: Taxes- How much are you willing to pay. said by Dogfather :Shhhh, truth is Kryptonite to Liberals. When you say "truth", do you mean "truth" is it appears to Conservatives? Of the same line as the "truth" that religious folk speak about... As in, I BELIEVE it to be true.
Or do you mean "truth" as in supported by facts?
Because if you mean the later, anyone can easily demonstrate that conservatives are JUST AS BAD as liberals with respect to the "truth". | |
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HotRodFoto
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO
| said by Dogfather :VAT is a national sales tax and it's massive because it can happen with EACH exchange (where as our sales tax is only levied on the final sale). He knows exactly what it is. And no, they don't have top-notch healthcare. They have endless wait lists for even the most basic procedures and the gov'ts are going bankrupt from it. No amount of liberal wishful thinking can change the disaster that socialized medicine in Canada and Europe is. Their schools are better because they aren't crippled by the corruption of the NEA and our greedy teacher unions. They don't have top notch healthcare?? Really? I was treated better in Germany than I ever was in any doctor office here LOL | |
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| | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here
| "top-notch" does not mean basic access. Americans have access to top-notch healthcare. Actually on par, better healthcare. It's just expensive for the end-user.
Americans take trips to get cheap healthcare. Foreigners come here when they want some of the finest healthcare. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: Taxes- How much are you willing to pay. said by BillRoland :said by kamm :Stop posting false info, pls. Good advice. You should take it. Do you have anything to say or just keep trolling...?
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| | JimF
join:2003-06-15
Allentown, PA
| said by kamm :Somehow we keep financing this giant, megalomaniac, parasitic military-industrial complex - exactly the one Eisenhower, the five-star general and later President warned about: It is good that you spelled out his name. I don't think the current generation knows who Ike is. He was a real conservative, and the world's expert on the military-industrial complex, long before the Republican party was hijacked by the Neocons who think that conservatism is invading the wrong country. | |
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HotRodFoto
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO
| said by kamm :said by JSRoman :Denmark- 38-59% + VAT 25% Finland- 10-48% + VAT 22% Netherlands- 0-52% + VAT 19% Sweden- 0-56% + VAT 6-25% USA- 0-35% NO VAT 1. Are you high? Do you even know WTF VAT means actually? Stop posting false info, pls. For cvlueless trolls: value-added tax equals to our sales tax. Here in NYC we have 8.38% and AFAIK it's between 4% and 10% in US states. 2. They all have top-notch universal healthcare, included in taxes, most also include quality basic and secondary education as well (not worthless one like we have here). We have BS and parasitic war industry costs included, not healthcare or any social services in our taxes. Somehow we keep financing this giant, megalomaniac, parasitic military-industrial complex - exactly the one Eisenhower, the five-star general and later President warned about: "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex... Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together." Let us not forget that they also get a PAID 30 day vacation a year and have a Pension! (Denmark is now at 45 days PAID vacation a year) | |
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Bellundo
@teksavvy.com | Where does the bloke come up with 0 to 35 percent for America? If that was true no one with an income above 63 thousand in Canada would live in Canada. Please correct your tax figures. | |
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| godmachine12
join:2004-04-06
Johnson City, TN
| said by JSRoman :Denmark- 38-59% + VAT 25% Finland- 10-48% + VAT 22% Netherlands- 0-52% + VAT 19% Sweden- 0-56% + VAT 6-25% USA- 0-35% NO VAT You obviously aren't aware what VAT is, its scope, and I won't bother to explain. Better to learn for yourself. I'll stick strictly to the Scandinavian countries and Finland, for they are all I have personal experience with. The tech saviness and infrastructure of these countries is staggering. They are far, far ahead of the US as far as that goes, but like someone mentioned before, size and population play a factor. The population of all of those countries combined pales in comparison to many of our states. That said, I still think we can do better. It will never be perfect and there are rural areas with such sparse populations that it is not economically feasible, but with the technology we have here, we should definitely strive to be towards, if not on, the top. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: Taxes- How much are you willing to pay. said by Dogfather :The VAT is the worst, largest and most punitive type of tax there is. I'll keep my cable and heath insurance (that I pay for), they can keep their huge income tax rates and VAT. People and business know how to spend their hard earned money better that the corrupt douchebags in Washington do. ROFL, you're more clueless than I thought - you pay more for your healthcare ALONE per MONTH than all your VAT would be in Europe.
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: Taxes- How much are you willing to pay. Wrong. You obviously don't understand the VAT or how much I spend on my heath insurance or the heath insurance for my employees. | |
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| | JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
2 edits | You should stop assuming what someone knows or does not know. Try staying focused on what I posted instead of attacking the messenger. I'm fully aware of what is a Value Added Tax.
The question was are you willing to pay more in overall taxes to have greater penetration of broadband?
F O C U S
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Alexodia
| Actually we have VAT its just a state controlled sales tax. some states have one some dont some states have income tax some dont. and before you say i dont understand VAT I live in the UK for 3 years. 20 meg service from virgin media has anything stateside beat. Albiet higher tax *about 50%* but in the US were some states have an income tax you get about the same tax cant compare a country to the united states cause we dont even have set tax except federal income tax. | |
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| eakenn
join:2005-02-20
Smyrna, GA
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southeast
1 edit | said by JSRoman :Denmark- 38-59% + VAT 25% Finland- 10-48% + VAT 22% Netherlands- 0-52% + VAT 19% Sweden- 0-56% + VAT 6-25% USA- 0-35% NO VAT Last time I checked my taxes are as follows:
Federal 23% income tax + 15.3% payroll taxes (e.g. SS, FICA)
GA Income Tax: 6%
Total percentage of taxes taken from my wages: 44.3%
Sales tax for my locale: 6% (state is 4%, county is 2%)
My county charges tax on food: 2% (yes, milk, bread, etc)
I'm no liberal, but i'm no neo-con either. I'm in the middle of the road like a lot of Americans. I have no problems paying my fair share of taxes, but I want to see a positive result from paying those taxes.
The only thing I believe I get out of my taxes is pretty much nothing. Yeah, my community has police, fire & rescue and paramedic services. Great! What I don't see is an investment is in decent public transportation and better roads, I would like clean streets, too. Cops and fire fighters getting paid what they're worth instead of getting shafted would be nice. Affordable health care would be awesome - instead I get a crap HMO from my employer and have to pay out the arse for it ~ I guess I could technically call that a "tax", too.
So, less money that I see in my paycheck because I have to pay for the bulk of my healthcare because the employer *cough* is too cheap to help pay for it. Oh, I forgot, the CEO, COO, etc, etc has to have their $100,000+ bonuses for a job well done. screw you slave, err I mean employee.
I don't think the government should subsidize broadband, but I do think they should have some say as far as the lack of competition in most areas of the US. Cable & telco are not competition, this is a duopoly. I'm mainly referring to metro areas (e.g. Atlanta) where the infrastructure is there and the ROI is higher.
Edit: see URLs:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_···he_world
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_In···_Act_tax
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAT | |
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rit56
join:2000-12-01
New York, NY | Non Disclosure I've read here how the FCC won't release actually penetration figures. So if they did a true accounting with honest numbers we would be near the bottom. | |
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StillLearn
Premium
join:2002-03-21
Streamwood, IL | Spin You spin. If I compute correctly, that same data could also have been written as US tops 70% of EU countries in broadband. | |
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dlewis23
join:2005-04-18
Boca Raton, FL
| Who Cares.... Last I checked European countries are very small when compared to the physical size of the USA.
And we also have these massive rural areas where is kinda hard to bring broadband because 4 people will use it, and no body will make any money off it. | |
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| smokarz
join:2006-07-24
West Hartford, CT | Re: Who Cares.... I love this thread. Just the word PENETRATION alone is more than enough to get me excited. | |
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Jwobot
join:2002-08-14
Sterling Heights, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| said by dlewis23 :Last I checked European countries are very small when compared to the physical size of the USA. And we also have these massive rural areas where is kinda hard to bring broadband because 4 people will use it, and no body will make any money off it. B.S. They build a ton of houses in the rural areas. Then 5 years later they are fully function mini cities. Walgreen's on every street corner, Your standard large corporation shopping centers and restaurants | |
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firephoto
KDE
Premium
join:2003-03-18
·Verizon west (ex G..
| said by dlewis23 :Last I checked European countries are very small when compared to the physical size of the USA. And we also have these massive rural areas where is kinda hard to bring broadband because 4 people will use it, and no body will make any money off it. Some pick a well off broadband state in the US and compare it to these EU countries. Do you get better results? | |
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rovernet
Premium
join:2004-02-11
Richardson, TX | Yeah, right Well, yeah, if they measure broadband penetration by the number of easyInternet cafe's strung around, well, yeah.
Very entertaining. | |
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dumb sob
@pdf.com
| Carbi is a hater. :) The broadband penetration level in Europe has nothing to do with taxes, and a whole lot more with competition. France, as an example, has forced (i.e. the regulatory body) players to unbundle the last mile and competition appeared. Bottom line, in most European countries (maybe all, don't know them all), it's good old fashioned capitalistic competition that made broadband cheaper and more available. In the states, we're stuck with a monopoly/duopoly depending on where you live and that's limiting growth.
As for VAT, the end result is exactly the same as sales tax, it's paid by the end user. | |
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| JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
| Re: Carbi is a hater. :) It is a combination of taxes and government regulation, both of which most americans do not like very much. Now the conversation needs to be, is greater penetration worth having higher taxes and government regulation?
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| EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA
| Though there's a trade-off between this and speed- in Europe, most of these connections are DSL, as it states in the article. Now, this is a huge advantage for densely populated areas, where there are more COs (helps to negate that pesky distance thing), for one. But also note that I believe a majority of US connections are via cable, which is a faster medium.
VAT tends to be higher than most sales taxes, however... and really all taxes on corporations are paid by the end user. (Who else is supposed to pay for them? The end user is their source of income) | |
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neufuse
join:2006-12-06
Indiana, PA
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | Smaller... So 8 EU countries are massively smaller then the USA and take massively less resources to deploy stuff into... the USA is HOW big again? and what 70%+ is rural and very spread out in the middle of the country? not an easy place to deploy broadband in... heck lots of them dont even have cable! Now if you compared a country say switzerland to something about the same size lets say New Jersey (just pulled out of my head) whats the comparision there? NJ has how much Fiber in it? how much DSL and how much cable? probably the majority of the state... comparisions like this are unfair because they do not account for size or how populated a area is... | |
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Alexodia
| Re: Smaller... US has 300 Million
EU has 700 Million
those 8 countries probebly amount to a higher pop density than the US easily.
UK alone has 60-80 million people and no less than 8-9 ISPs. I say UK is far better off than any single state easily. and despite Taxes *Which vary depending on you area of the UK scotland has far lower tax than England. HOnestly having lived in both US and UK and suffering road runner id stick with EU broadband. | |
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Faram
Premium
join:2002-03-27
Sweden
clubs:
1 edit | Posted wrong delete please Posted wrong delete please | |
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jansson_mark
Markus Jansson
Premium
join:2001-08-05
Finland
| nice... Not only is Finland in the top countries list, we also have very good cover on WiMax and 3,5G networks. It is speculated, that soon people will simply dump their ADSL:s for 3,5G networks (of if they live in countryside, for WiMax).
You might think about the effects and problems of good WiMax/3,5G cover when you concider that Finland is BIG country with only 5 million people living here.
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My computer security & privacy related homepage »www.markusjansson.net
Use HushTools or GnuPG/PGP to encrypt any email before sending it to me to protect our privacy. | |
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden | In Other News:::: In other news, I heard that the larger percentage of African Americans in America has increased the mean size of the American penis compared to Europeans.
-Tzale | |
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factchecker
@cox.net
| Much ado about nothing on this news item... It is a shame statistics and experimental design classes aren't required for every American, otherwise all of the comments on this thread would have said "So what!"
The comparison of the EU states to the US is worthless. It is like saying that there is a much higher rate of crimes committed by people in prison than those outside of prison. Prima facia it looks like it makes a point, but in reality, it is a comparison that is pointless.
Buy hey, posting it boosts the post count on the site and lets the conservatives and liberals engage in mental and verbal masturbation, which unfortunately leaves the floor nice and sticky for those of us with a clue on how to read studies. | |
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Teddy69
join:2007-09-09
1 edit | IMPEACH GW american nation shud kick off GW and all of mason jewish agressors before they started a new war against Iran | |
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Amicus
@plus.net
| Tax some bullshit numbers flying around here.
I'm in the UK, earn about 30K pounds, all my earnings and tax I log, Excel tells me my tax is about 16%ish.
Top tax band is 40% after 34K6 pounds.
»www.hmrc.gov.uk/rates/it.htm | |
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European Study Says 8 EU Countries Top U.S. In Broadband
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