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FBI: Copper Thefts Threaten U.S. Infrastructure
Reason number 1,237 to deploy Fiber to the home?
by Karl Bode Friday 05-Dec-2008 tags: business · networking
A 500% spike in the price of copper since 2001 has resulted in thieves grabbing it wherever possible -- even if it's sometimes still in use. That means a flood of stories each year about idiots being electrocuted as they try to strip wire from live utility poles, or phone and broadband outages galore when the thieves target telco poles. In 2006, I was a victim of the flooding in upstate New York, and while people were busy fleeing for their lives and trying to salvage what remaining possessions weren't destroyed by water and mud, many thieves moved in to strip vacated homes of copper piping.

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Years after repeated stories of this type, a new study by the FBI says that copper theft is now officially threatening the country's infrastructure.

According to the FBI, 4,000 residents in Polk County, Florida, were left without power after copper wire was stripped from an active transformer at a Tampa Electric facility. The agency also notes how five tornado warning sirens in Jackson, Mississippi did not warn locals of an April tornado, because thieves had stripped the siren of its copper. Farmers in Arizona saw $10 million in damages after the theft of copper from water irrigation wells and pumps resulted in the loss of crops and high replacement costs.

"Organized groups of drug addicts, gang members, and metal thieves are conducting large scale thefts from electric utilities, warehouses, foreclosed and vacant properties, and oil well sites for tens of thousands of dollars in illicit proceeds per month," says the report.

One marginally helpful solution could be of course for more telcos to deploy more last mile fiber, migrating away from traditional copper. Another solution may just be happening organically in the market: copper prices are plummeting amidst a sour economy, making theft slightly less profitable. Arizona's Freeport-McMoRan Copper & Gold, the world's largest copper supplier, is slashing costs to help deal with falling prices.

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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

3 edits

Metal prices will come down with the economy


From kitconet.com : copper price in freefall
Copper, unlike Gold isn't a big 'hedge against inflation' metal and it's price is largely tied to industrial (not investor) demand. As the price continues to collapse so will the thefts. No other 'factors' will be necessary to drastically cut theft.

ThrowDemsOut
If you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4

1 edit

Re: Metal prices will come down with the economy

said by Dogfather:

Copper, unlike Gold isn't a big 'hedge against inflation' metal and it's price is largely tied to industrial (not investor) demand. As the price continues to collapse so will the thefts. No other 'factors' will be necessary to drastically cut theft.
You are right. The FBI warning has failed to recognize the collapse in copper prices. The demand for stolen copper will drop accordingly.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?

Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Re: Metal prices will come down with the economy

Karl did mention it.

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

Blame it on China

Part of the reason why copper thefts are so rampant is because much of the world's supply of it is being diverted to China for the Three Gorges Dam project. This was driving prices higher. But like a previous poster said, the souring economy could lower them.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)

ninjatutle
Premium

join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

Re: Blame it on China

Blame it on China!

I thought the thieves looked Chinese.

Word on the street is that they're coming over here on junk boats in the middle of the night and using bamboo ladders to scale these poles. These fly by night Chinese thieves can be found all over the United States, from Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe.

Gary A

join:2008-03-02
Odessa, FL
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

On The Decline

According to this article in today's St Petersburg Times, copper thefts are on the decline (at least around here) due to dropping prices.

»www.tampabay.com/news/courts/cri···6897.ece
racer6019

join:2008-06-13

Isn't it even a shame that

Some people have no good or a conscience at all,especially when they would rip apart a church's heating/AC system just to get the copper, many church's & other business's & homes owners are now starting to have to put a locked bolted down dog cage over & around their outsdie heating/ac units,,,

SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

Re: Isn't it even a shame that

Most churches out here are just tax-exempt money making machines. I wouldn't use them as an example of conscience.
SilverSurfer1

join:2007-08-19

Re: Isn't it even a shame that

said by SLD:

Most churches out here are just tax-exempt money making machines. I wouldn't use them as an example of conscience.
++5
carolx79

join:2007-05-04
Frankfort, IN
how bout a food bank
»www.usatoday.com/news/topstories···78_x.htm
wrad

join:2003-09-11
Fort Pierce, FL

Bronze

The latest thing in South Florida is to steal urns from grave markers. One would think that the scrappie would be curious when someone brings in a pick-up truck load.
Gunner

join:2004-01-29
Carmel, IN

Motivated thieves

Motivated thieves aren't going to be stopped by a dogcage over your AC unit. They'll steal the dogcage also. Theft of A/C units has become a problem around here...usually happening to businesses or homes under construction.
racer6019

join:2008-06-13

Re: Motivated thieves

Motivated thieves aren't going to be stopped by a dogcage over your AC unit. They'll steal the dogcage also. Theft of A/C units has become a problem around here...usually happening to businesses or homes under construction
=============================
but the good thing here is: we can shoot to kill when catching them in the act.thats a hig proce to pay for stealing someones copper.
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

Want to fix this problem?

Start going after the metal dealers that take this stuff in.

Make them take ID and photos of everyone bringing in this stuff. Also, if they knowingly violate the new rules, shut them down.

Like a pawn shop that takes in stolen equipment, scrap yards that take in illegal materials are part of the problem.
racer6019

join:2008-06-13

Re: Want to fix this problem?

Start going after the metal dealers that take this stuff in.

Make them take ID and photos of everyone bringing in this stuff. Also, if they knowingly violate the new rules, shut them down.

Like a pawn shop that takes in stolen equipment, scrap yards that take in illegal materials are part of the problem.
========================================
here again NOW (for last year or so,when somone brings in load of coper,metal dealers make then the person sign a paper & add a finger print to it.
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

Re: Want to fix this problem?

said by racer6019:

here again NOW (for last year or so,when somone brings in load of coper,metal dealers make then the person sign a paper & add a finger print to it.
Big deal. Criminals already stole the wire and you expect them to tell the truth when signing a meaningless document?

In addition to their fingerprint, take their photo too.

Gary A

join:2008-03-02
Odessa, FL
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by moonpuppy:

Start going after the metal dealers that take this stuff in.

Make them take ID and photos of everyone bringing in this stuff. Also, if they knowingly violate the new rules, shut them down.

Like a pawn shop that takes in stolen equipment, scrap yards that take in illegal materials are part of the problem.
The one and only time I brought in a bunch of copper to a scrap dealer, he took my drivers license (with photo) and made a copy of it. He said the state of Florida requires him to do so. But, who compares the license info later on, from all scrap dealers to see if maybe I'm bringing lots of copper to a dozen different scrap yards?

SHABAZZ

join:2008-07-13
Seattle, WA
My thought exactly.
bogey780

join:2004-03-19
Here
kudos:1

Don't count on intelligence

After having heard of fiber optics being stolen by thieves who thought it was copper, I wouldn't count on them realizing what is fier and what is copper. It seems they avoid fiber mainly because there's fatter cables to cut and not because they can tell the difference.

DarkLogix

join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

Awhile ago

Here in houston there was a story about the copper theifs would steal from a copper scrapyard and then try to sell it back to the same scrapyard WTF

the scrapyard thus has to invest in security
RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1

Theft

Out here the 800 MHz public safety towers have been hit, they use 1-5/8 inch heliax which contains a lot of copper. I hope the next time the thieves do that, the tower goes dead as the fire truck is being routed to a house fire in THEIR house.

As far as moonpuppy's comment, requiring proof of identity to sell scrap metal is a violation of privacy, it is just one more step toward more taxes when doing business and gives the government more power over your life (the folks who do scrap metal transactions use the same arguments that people against internet and phone monitoring do).

Personally, I am all for positive ID of people selling high value scrap metal and identification of the type and form of the metal. But those within a few hundred miles of the southern border will still have the problem since the thieves just take it across and sell/trade it.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time.

OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH

Re: Theft

then perhaps customs and border protection needs to start assessing a fee if someone is crossing to mexico with scrap metal.

DarkLogix

join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

Re: Theft

Why would they go "TO" Mex with the scrap?
They'd get more money here

they might be Crossing "From" mex to here with it though
RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1

Re: Theft

said by DarkLogix:

Why would they go "TO" Mex with the scrap?
They'd get more money here

they might be Crossing "From" mex to here with it though
Context: if they were being id'ed in the US. It is easy to cross over with a few hundred pounds of copper since the last time I went across the southern border, the only real checking was coming back this way.

You are correct, for now, it is not worth it.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time.
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
said by RayW:

As far as moonpuppy's comment, requiring proof of identity to sell scrap metal is a violation of privacy, it is just one more step toward more taxes when doing business and gives the government more power over your life (the folks who do scrap metal transactions use the same arguments that people against internet and phone monitoring do).

Personally, I am all for positive ID of people selling high value scrap metal and identification of the type and form of the metal. But those within a few hundred miles of the southern border will still have the problem since the thieves just take it across and sell/trade it.
How is it a violation of privacy? The people choose to make money recycling metal. If they don't want to show ID when they turn in stuff for cash then they need to find something else to do.
RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1

Re: Theft

said by moonpuppy:

How is it a violation of privacy? The people choose to make money recycling metal. If they don't want to show ID when they turn in stuff for cash then they need to find something else to do.
Hey moon, I said what I have heard. There are otherwise honest people who do not want to be monitored by the government when they sell, buy, talk, or for other aspects of life.

My take is, if you go outside your house, you have no expectation of privacy, especially with today's accelerating technological miniaturization and processor enhancements, and that is even dubious.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time.
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

Re: Theft

said by RayW:

Hey moon, I said what I have heard. There are otherwise honest people who do not want to be monitored by the government when they sell, buy, talk, or for other aspects of life.

My take is, if you go outside your house, you have no expectation of privacy, especially with today's accelerating technological miniaturization and processor enhancements, and that is even dubious.
I still do not see where it is a violation of privacy.
RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1

Re: Theft

said by moonpuppy:

I still do not see where it is a violation of privacy.
The Gov knows what you are doing.....A lot of people think that what you do is private business and not the Gov's, talk on the phone, buy something, sell something, no one else needs to know.

Yet all of the above can be done for nefarious reasons, do you violate privacy for them or do you lock down privacy for the honest and ignore the bad?
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time.
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

Re: Theft

said by RayW:

The Gov knows what you are doing.....A lot of people think that what you do is private business and not the Gov's, talk on the phone, buy something, sell something, no one else needs to know.

Yet all of the above can be done for nefarious reasons, do you violate privacy for them or do you lock down privacy for the honest and ignore the bad?
O.k. the loss of privacy has been gone for several decades now. Your phone records, your financial statements, your day to day life is available with the click of a mouse and it is not always the government doing it. Living "off the grid" is very close to impossible. You have a house, the government and private business knows about it. You have a job, they know what you make. Get the picture?

Because a few bad apples (scrappers and scrap yard owners both), we now need a way to track where all this stolen copper is going.

Once you do business with someone who does have to report to the government, you lose that privacy.
RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1

Re: Theft

said by moonpuppy:

O.k. the loss of privacy has been gone for several decades now. Your phone records, your financial statements, your day to day life is available with the click of a mouse and it is not always the government doing it. Living "off the grid" is very close to impossible. You have a house, the government and private business knows about it. You have a job, they know what you make. Get the picture?

Because a few bad apples (scrappers and scrap yard owners both), we now need a way to track where all this stolen copper is going.

Once you do business with someone who does have to report to the government, you lose that privacy.
Yup, and all the folks can sue away saying "rights violations", but you basically have stated what drives it all, a few bad apples. Unfortunately, it is a fine line between "get security, give up freedom", and as I found out years ago, those who value freedom are vulnerable to those who exploit it, especially when laws are passed prohibiting you from taking actions by well meaning, but clueless, hot house flowers.

Oh well, have a good day, it is sunny and hit 46 today (snow forecast for Monday if you believe the weather guesser).
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time.

FastiBook

join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA

Abandoned......

There are abandoned 3 phase lines along the amtrak ROW in the meadows wetlands in NJ. Why not steal those instead?

- A
--
LETS GO METS!
EPS

join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

Re: Abandoned......

I don't know if this is true, but I've heard Amtrak keeps electricity running through abandoned lines long after they've been abandoned.
Airwolf7
Premium
join:2004-12-12
Franklin, KY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast
said by FastiBook:

There are abandoned 3 phase lines along the Amtrak ROW in the meadows wetlands in NJ. Why not steal those instead?

- A
Do you have any more good tips about where thieves could steal copper?

There might be some unfinished subdivisions where you live that you could point out for them. Try to post up a Google map for them if you can.
--
Apathy is on the rise, but nobody seems to care.

FastiBook

join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA

1 edit

Re: Abandoned......

The lines are connected to derelict utility poles that have toppled over in the swamp. The wires are mostly just under the water or up and over the top of the support insulators. They were/are not related to amtrak aside from proximity to rail infrastructure. They are not in use and will never be again, the utility company that used them said to me when i called & asked around last year that it's not worth the money, risk, and effort to retrieve these lines or the poles. Since the land around them is owned by amtrak & near a vital rail link in the country it is monitored around the clock & no one would be able to get to them anyways as the area was drained & let to flood again when they were installed.

- A
--
LETS GO METS!

DeeplyShrouded

@comcast.net
What abandoned Amtrak ROW? I used to live in NJ and know that
the line running along west of Tonnele Avenue/West Side Avenue
is still in use, and it's a Conrail line.
Is that the line you're talking about?
(Rail fan and MS Train Sim fan)

--Deeply Shrouded & Quiet
--Central Control! D-Dial #49

themonkeyz

join:2007-11-24
Quebec, QC

A person would have to show ID

They can put up any rules to control persons and ask ID when they want to do anything. As long as they don't restrict responsible human being from doing what they want anonymously I'm all for it.

And on another note, I wonder if it would be profitable for telcos to sell their copper to pay for the fibre?

Zen6

@rr.com

storms and thieves

After ice storms the thieves used to drive around with cutters and hundreds of pounds of wire in or on their vehicles. The power company would be hampered by the fact that instead of hanging the lines back up they would have to leave us out of power till these big spools of wire could be brought in to replace what thieves took.
mdbrozik

join:2002-08-09
Fredericktown, PA

The day before T-Giving..woke up to no phone or dsl

11/27/2008 3:30 AM Email this article • Print this article

Copper theft disrupts phone service
This article has been read 746 times.
Some residents in the southeastern part of Washington County went without phone service Wednesday after copper thieves broke into a communications site and cut through wires, county emergency officials said.
The 377 and 632 exchanges were offline most of the day in parts of East Bethlehem Township, Centerville, Richeyville, Fredericktown, Deemston and Denbo, according to Ron Sicchitano Jr., deputy director of the county's Department of Public Safety. However, some people were still able to use their cell phones, Sicchitano said.

Windstream Communications were expected to reconnect the phone service by Wednesday night. Until then, emergency dispatchers were notified of the problem and local fire and police departments were put on standby and conducted neighborhood patrols.


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