 marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO kudos:1 | Can anyone find the order? Has anyone been able to find the text of the order? Based on the various comments, is sounds as if they term "unreasonable" still remains undefined. I am particularly interested in how an unreasonable buildout schedule was defined. | |
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 |  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium join:2002-03-03 USA kudos:4 | Re: Can anyone find the order? said by marigolds:Has anyone been able to find the text of the order? The only things published so far on the FCC web site are the Press Release & the statements by the Commissioners. The actual order may not show up for awhile yet. -- -- My BLOG My Web Page | |
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 |  Old_GrouchDon't just sit there silly DO somethingPremium join:2004-05-26 Greenwood, IN kudos:1 | I have not read the order, I suspect you will remain interested but not satisfied.
If comments by the individual Commissioners are any indication, the ones made by the Chairman should be most telling for you.
If you read slowly, you'll note that he believes it would have been appropriate to include examples of reasonable requirements. And, he gave an example that would allow a petitioner at least 10 years and likely more ... again, if you read slowly.
The end of Chairman Martin's statement said:
"Addressing build-out requirements was particularly difficult. This item seeks to strike a balance between encouraging as widespread deployment of broadband as possible while not deterring entry altogether. I believed it would have been appropriate to provide examples of build-out requirements that would be reasonable in addition to illustrating those that could not be.1
1 For example, I would have been willing to find that it would seem reasonable for an LFA to require that, beginning five years after the effective date of a new entrants franchise and every 3 years thereafter, if in the portion of the franchise area where the new entrant has chosen to offer cable service at least 15 percent of the households subscribe to such service, the new entrant increase by 20 percent the households in the franchise area to which the new entrant offers cable service by the beginning of the next 3-year interval, until the new entrant is capable of providing cable service to all households in the franchise area."
If you are curious, the statements are found HERE under Headlines . -- I want to die in my sleep just like grandpa did. Not screaming and yelling like the other people riding in the car with him. | |
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 |  |  marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO kudos:1 | Re: Can anyone find the order? Wow, against that type of schedule, a new entrant starting at 20% coverage (which is a high coverage for a new entrant) could take 23 years to build out half a system even if they hit 50%+ penetration every year, 32 years to build out 90% of the system. | |
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 | | The only time I wax conservative... ...is here -- I'm tired of greedy 'lil 'burbs holding up progress. Yeah baby. | |
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 |  jslikThat just happenedPremium join:2006-03-17 | Re: The only time I wax conservative... said by Anoni :
...is here -- I'm tired of greedy 'lil 'burbs holding up progress. Yeah baby. If you truly 'wax conservative' you'd be mad at this decision as another federal government preemption of local authority.
The 10th Amendment was written for a reason. | |
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 |  |  | | Re: The only time I wax conservative... So was the commerce clause and the delivery of data (including a dtv signal) that originates in CA and is piped to Nebraska (or anywhere else) is obviously interstate commerce.
The 10th amendment is inapplicable since the power was already granted to congress.
The cable companies should have thought of this approach years ago. Don't fault the telecoms for pursuing an efficient approach to avoid municipality power-grabs. | |
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 |  |  |  jslikThat just happenedPremium join:2006-03-17 | Re: The only time I wax conservative... Local control of the local right-of-way is a power grab? | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | Re: The only time I wax conservative... Once the ROW has been granted (which it has to the telecoms since they are running the data over existing cables) to require some sort of service to the city, e.g., filming the city's arrival of santa clause, is certainly a power grab.
How is this not interference in interstate commerce? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  jslikThat just happenedPremium join:2006-03-17 2 edits | Re: The only time I wax conservative... AT&T and Verizon are stringing all sorts of new infrastructure in the ROW.
Where is the precedence for existing infrastructure to give unlimited access for anything new for all time, especially service which is under a different title in the Communication Act?
Who's going to pay the cities to defend themselves from the cable companies who will sue the city violating the Cable Act by not granting a franchise? | |
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 |  | | said by Anoni :
...is here -- I'm tired of greedy 'lil 'burbs holding up progress. Yeah baby. Yeah, until they don't deploy in your area.  | |
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 | | Expect this to be overturned Come jan, the dems will most definitely overturn this godawful ruling. The local communities have every right to demand the telco's play by the same rules the cableco's do. -- Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. | |
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 |  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium join:2002-03-03 USA kudos:4 2 edits | Re: Expect this to be overturned said by karlmarx:Come jan, the dems will most definitely overturn this godawful ruling. Even if the Dems can pass new laws on the subject, there is little likelihood they can override a Bush veto. And even if so inclined, this would not be a Dem priority in a new Congress and it would be many months at a minimum before new laws would be crafted. They will be busier addressing a larger military and Iraq issues. TV will be far down the list.
Much more likely that it would go to the courts where it could take years to resolve. -- -- My BLOG My Web Page | |
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 |  cwh join:2006-05-14 San Antonio, TX | said by karlmarx:Come jan, the dems will most definitely overturn this godawful ruling. The local communities have every right to demand the telco's play by the same rules the cableco's do. The current franchise agreement only insure that cable stays a monopoly. Build requirements keep small investors completely out of play and greatly slow the big boys. This is good news for consumers. | |
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 |  |  | | Re: Expect this to be overturned How do the current ones keep cable a monopoly. So making them have a certain amount of the town wired by a certain date, or have public access channels helps keep cable a monopoly? wow | |
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 |  |  |  cwh join:2006-05-14 San Antonio, TX | Re: Expect this to be overturned said by majortom1029:How do the current ones keep cable a monopoly. So making them have a certain amount of the town wired by a certain date, or have public access channels helps keep cable a monopoly? wow Build out requirement rules both time and area will greatly discourage investors against competing with a incumbent cable company. This is what protects the cable company from competition. Is is one thing to have a build out rules when there is no competition but it is quite a different rule when an incumbent exists. | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | Re: Expect this to be overturned Still , how does that protect the monopoly. Those rules protect the people in the not as rich areas so that the whole town will get wired. ! village out of a whole town is not competition. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  cwh join:2006-05-14 San Antonio, TX 1 edit | Re: Expect this to be overturned said by majortom1029:Still , how does that protect the monopoly. Those rules protect the people in the not as rich areas so that the whole town will get wired. ! village out of a whole town is not competition. How does it protect them? It discourages investors from creating competition. It makes the build out risk too high for investors.
In simple terms, how much money are investors willing to spend to possibly take 15-20% market share away from the incumbent. The franchise agreement keeps the bar high and investors away. It is that simple.
But answer this, how well are the poor(if you call poor being able to afford cable tv poor)served by living under monopoly conditions? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium join:2002-03-03 USA kudos:4 | Re: Expect this to be overturned said by cwh:[ In simple terms, how much money are investors willing to spend to possibly take 15-20% market share away from the incumbent. The franchise agreement keeps the bar high and investors away. It is that simple. And demands that new franchisees do a full build-out in 3 to 5 yrs when the incumbent cable company took a couple decades to do so is ludicrous and the reason for the FCC rules. -- -- My BLOG My Web Page | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Expect this to be overturned said by Romney2012:And demands that new franchisees do a full build-out in 3 to 5 yrs when the incumbent cable company took a couple decades to do so is ludicrous and the reason for the FCC rules. Wrong. It has been done before.
Baltimore City signed a franchise agreement in 1984 with United Cable and was required to have 100% build-out in 4 years. They came close save for a few pockets here and there.
Now, if you think this will spur innovation, again I bring out Baltimore City. They just recently got cable modem service 3 years ago (16 years after they first started.)
So the 3 to 5 year build out rules are not ludicrous but very obtainable.  | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  CableToolPoorly Representing MYSELF.Premium join:2004-11-12 | said by cwh:But answer this, how well are the poor(if you call poor being able to afford cable tv poor)served by living under monopoly conditions? Extremely well, because the incumbant cable provider was held to build out contracts and provided them with cable as they did the rest of the town.
Now, statewide franchise..whole different ball game. No one is running fiber past Cabrini Green. But there is cable there. -- CableFAQ.org/Technicians Unplugged
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 |  | | "Come jan, the dems will most definitely overturn this godawful ruling. The local communities have every right to demand the telco's play by the same rules the cableco's do."
If memory serves (and it usually does) The cable franchise thing was the result of an FCC order creating it many moons ago. Which means that the FCC has the authority to modify the terms and abilities of local governments in implementing franchises. | |
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 Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium join:2002-03-03 USA kudos:4 2 edits | New rulings don't apply to statewide franchise areas
One thing I found interesting is that the new rules DO NOT apply to places where statewide franchising laws have been passed, like Texas, California, & NJ among others. What I take from that is that the FCC(at least the 3 Republicans) see the local franchise authorities as the biggest roadblock to telco video rollouts and most in need of FCC oversight. »hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/a···11A1.pdf
The Commission concluded that although the record allows it to determine generally what constitutes an unreasonable refusal to award an additional competitive franchise at the local level, the Commission does not have sufficient information to make such determinations with respect to franchising decisions made at the state level or in compliance with state statutory directives, such as statewide franchising decisions. As a result, the Order addresses only decisions made by county- or municipal-level franchising authorities. Link to story with comments by telco and cable representatives: »news.tmcnet.com/news/it/-fcc-cab···8472.htm
-- -- My BLOG My Web Page | |
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| Re: New rulings don't apply to statewide franchise areas said by Romney2012:... What I take from that is that the FCC(at least the 3 Republicans) see the local franchise authorities as the biggest roadblock to telco video rollouts and most in need of FCC oversight. You are certainly entitled to that take away.
However, I doubt the 3 republican commissioners see it that way at all - what they see is a big business with lots of lobbying clout that wants something done, so they did it. There doesn't appear to be anything more than anecdotal evidence about the "roadblocks" that local authorities are to the franchise process - an executive at Verizon was even quoted as saying this process wasn't slowing them down.
My take away is that the republican commissioners have a reflexive, knee jerk reaction to grant anything big business wants, without any regard to the wants or needs of consumers.
They must have really agonized about the cablecos opposition to this, but I am sure they consoled themselves with the thought that they are deregulating and all deregulation is good. | |
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 |  |  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium join:2002-03-03 USA kudos:4 | Re: New rulings don't apply to statewide franchise areas said by nasadude: an executive at Verizon was even quoted as saying this process wasn't slowing them down. The Verizon response today was a little different: »news.tmcnet.com/news/it/-fcc-cab···8472.htm
Responding to the FCC ruling, Susanne Guyer, Verizon (News - Alert) senior vice president for federal regulatory affairs, issued the following statement:
Todays action will fast-forward the delivery of new choices, lower prices and better services to consumers. The FCC is standing up for consumers who are tired of skyrocketing cable bills and want greater choice in service providers and programming. Verizon has an aggressive schedule to deploy FiOS TV. This order will enable us to reach agreements with local franchise authorities more quickly so we can deliver the benefits of competition to consumers faster. The FCC has taken strong steps to increase consumer choice and spur investment in broadband and video deployment. -- -- My BLOG My Web Page | |
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 |  |  |  jslikThat just happenedPremium join:2006-03-17 | Re: New rulings don't apply to statewide franchise areas said by Romney2012: The Verizon response today was a little different: The quote referenced from Verizon in September (linked in the post):
"Franchising is not holding us back," said Virginia Ruesterholz, president of Verizon Telecom. "I really dont see that as a necessity, to have nationwide relief on that." ...and people wonder why folks like me don't believe anything coming from the telcos? | |
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 |  |  |  | | said by Romney2012:said by nasadude: an executive at Verizon was even quoted as saying this process wasn't slowing them down. The Verizon response today was a little different: » news.tmcnet.com/news/it/-fcc-cab···8472.htmResponding to the FCC ruling, Susanne Guyer, Verizon (News - Alert) senior vice president for federal regulatory affairs, issued the following statement:
Todays action will fast-forward the delivery of new choices, lower prices and better services to consumers. The FCC is standing up for consumers who are tired of skyrocketing cable bills and want greater choice in service providers and programming. Verizon has an aggressive schedule to deploy FiOS TV. This order will enable us to reach agreements with local franchise authorities more quickly so we can deliver the benefits of competition to consumers faster. The FCC has taken strong steps to increase consumer choice and spur investment in broadband and video deployment. Sorry, Verizon never said that the current franchising wasn't slowing them down. They said it wasn't holding them back. | |
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 |  |  |  |  jslikThat just happenedPremium join:2006-03-17 | Re: New rulings don't apply to statewide franchise areas said by SD6: Sorry, Verizon never said that the current franchising wasn't slowing them down. They said it wasn't holding them back. Huh? Please explain the difference between 'slowing them down' and 'holding them back'. Also, why did she specifically say national franchising relief wasn't necessary? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  RJ44 join:2001-10-19 Nashville, TN | Re: New rulings don't apply to statewide franchise areas said by jslik:said by SD6: Sorry, Verizon never said that the current franchising wasn't slowing them down. They said it wasn't holding them back. Huh? Please explain the difference between 'slowing them down' and 'holding them back'. Also, why did she specifically say national franchising relief wasn't necessary? Is it really so hard to grasp the concept that Verizon said they could do ok under the present rules, then said they could do even better now that the rules are more lenient? How hard was it in the first place to figure out that having to deal with thousands of municipalities is less efficient than dealing with 50 states or one national franchise, regardless of what Verizon was telling their investors? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  jslikThat just happenedPremium join:2006-03-17 | Re: New rulings don't apply to statewide franchise areas Then quite frankly, she is plain dumb to state so clearly that local franchising isn't a problem, regardless of the audience.
If they can 'do ok' under present law, and this keep local governments in control, how is that bad?
Why is Verizon's (and the other telcos) lack of planning in the 10 years since the '96 Act now local government's problem? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  | | said by RJ44:said by jslik:said by SD6: Sorry, Verizon never said that the current franchising wasn't slowing them down. They said it wasn't holding them back. Huh? Please explain the difference between 'slowing them down' and 'holding them back'. Also, why did she specifically say national franchising relief wasn't necessary? Is it really so hard to grasp the concept that Verizon said they could do ok under the present rules, then said they could do even better now that the rules are more lenient? How hard was it in the first place to figure out that having to deal with thousands of municipalities is less efficient than dealing with 50 states or one national franchise, regardless of what Verizon was telling their investors? Yea, it really is not that hard to understand that Verizon said it was not going to hold back from deploying FIOS even if there is no national franchising law.Here is the link:
»telephonyonline.com/home/news/ve···_092706/
National franchising, of course, is different than FCC reforms of the local franchising process, and Verizon is not being inconsistent. Somehow the original quote of "not holding us back" and national franchising is "not a necessity" has been transformed to "Verizon has admitted Fios deployment has gone well under under the existing system" in this news item. | |
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 |  jslikThat just happenedPremium join:2006-03-17 | Maybe, maybe not. You could read the 'not have sufficient information' as saying that the statewide franchise system(s) in place are so new that their impact is not known.
This is a really crappy decision by the FCC, not so much as what it says or does not say, but rather the FCC doesn't have this kind of authority to basically amend Title 47 of federal law. Like it or not, that's Congress' role.
As stated before, this is going to court. | |
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 | | Interesting. I thought that more local control, in everything, was a hallmark conservative argument. That huge mandates from Washington were A Bad Thing. That "The People Know Best".
I guess all that is now suspect, in the face of increased corporate profits. They know from whom the campaign contribution blessings flow, apparently. Intimately, too. | |
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 |  See 18 replies to this post |
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 | | Great News! This is good news for many reasons:
1. If I build a fiber network, I shouldn't have to share my network.
2. Why should I be forced to say network all the city's stoplights to monitor traffic as part of my agreement to offer service. If I open a pizza place, I'm not forced to offer free pizza to the mayor.
3. It will increase competition and lower costs. | |
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 |  See 10 replies to this post |
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 PlaceboPremium join:2005-12-14 Huntley, IL | Torn! I'm a social and fiscal conservative. That being said, I recognize the need for, and am supportive of, responsible regulation in the telco/cable arena. I'm not a lawyer. I don't lay (lie?) awake in bed reading FCC reports.
The consumer in me wants: a statewide franchise in Illinois (NEVER going to happen), IPTV, a 25meg/25meg symmetric pipe, HD VOD movies on the same day as theater release, etc...
The conservative in me sees the push for statewide franchises as an intrusion on the rights of municipalities. Does my state representative or state senator know the minute details about my hometown cable franchise? Probably not. As long as I have a village/city council that I have confidence in, I'll continue to push for local franchises.
What if I lived on the edge of town and the franchise agreement with the cable company demanded that the cable company offer me service? Who do you think would be better prepared to fight for me if there was a disagreement between myself and the cable company? There is no doubt that my local govt. would respond faster than my state govt.
I'm all for the expansion of telco video services. What I don't understand is why all of a sudden the FCC thinks the local franchise system is inefficient. I know that it's all about money, so don't think I'm naive. I just wish politicians would realize how stupid they make themselves look. | |
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 |  | | Re: Torn! The Constitution reserves power not specifically granted the feds to the states. On the other hand, local government's right to even exist is at the whim of the state. There is a historical argument for "state's rights" not for local control for much of anything. | |
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 Michieru2zzz zzz zzzPremium join:2005-01-28 Miami, FL | ! I think this whole discussion will sooner or later break down into Federalist and anti-Federalist type of scenario.
Those who want a nationwide franchise system while those who want state and city franchise systems. But that's just my 0.02 cents | |
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 |  | | Re: ! What this means to me is that we gonna be seeing prices skyrocket all these companies work together here the poor stay poor and the rich get richer. Honestly they should have left it alone. | |
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 RR ConductorHappy 40th AmtrakPremium join:2002-04-02 Redwood Valley, CA kudos:1 | Okay then.... "unreasonable build-out requirements"
Oh, like actually providing service to more than 1% of the population? Or getting services in months and years and not decades? Yeah, totally unreasonable there...I smell Gwbuh in this somewhere. | |
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| The Rebublican FCC BENDS OVER to the telcos over and over! The FCC bends over whenever the telcos burp! Look at how they interpreted the telecom Act ofg '96 (which was supposed to serve for the next 50 years!) They claimed that the competitive items the telcos had to abide for (in return for the keys to the cookie jar a'la wide open long distance services) only applied to the copper plant in place as of 1996! In other words, the telcos get to HAVE their monopoly again!
BEND OVER FAR FCC...THIS ONE ISN'T GREASED!!! | |
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 XcceLL join:2004-03-16 Bethlehem, GA | Give consumers more ways to get entertainment. The way I see it is the more competition there is the more choice I will have for entertainment. | |
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 | | business licenses are managed local as well, why shouldn't the cable and telco's be managed local. Franchises don't guarantee a monopoly. anyone can start an operation if they can meet the requirements... Since it is way too expensive for anyone to actually compete, you need to make sure the monopoly behind is regulated in some way. | |
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 BF69Premium join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN | Lots of local authorities suck Most don't know anything about anything thus cable companies don't aren't require to do crap because the local authorities are run by ignornat people. Or the restraints are too much because of said ignorance. "Local control" of things like this and schools sounds great if you are in a big city where there is a huge pool of candidates to find qualified individuals from. But not in tiny little backwaters were all the smart students with potential successful futures go off to college and never come back. The few that would be qualified never get on these boards because they don't know the right people. That the way small towns are run. That's why they stay small and backwards. | |
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 |  CableToolPoorly Representing MYSELF.Premium join:2004-11-12 | Re: Lots of local authorities suck That being said with a statewide franchise what are the chances the small towns will ever see FIOS? Since they can pick wherever they want to go and even THEN not even build all of it out it limits GREATLY who will really get the service and competition. All this did was speed up how fast Verizon will alienate communitites. -- CableFAQ.org/Technicians Unplugged
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 marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO kudos:1 | How responsive are the states and feds?
Since this is a push to create more state and federal control of franchising....
Does anyone have any examples of receiving relief against franchisee actions from the state or federal level that was initiated by a consumer and not by a municipality? | |
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