FCC Approves Verizon Frontier Deal With Wimpy Conditions 4 Mbps DSL by 2015? How about ISDN by 2030? Carrier pigeon by 2040? With a late Friday announcement (the kind PR folk generally hope get lost in the weekend), the FCC has announced (pdf) that they've approved Verizon's $8.5 billion sale of more than 6 million DSL and landline customers to Frontier Comunications. Despite opposition by unions and consumer advocates who say the deal is good for Verizon only, West Virginia last Friday was the last state needed for deal approval. So what was the lofty conditions the FCC affixed to the deal? 4 Mbps broadband to 85% by 2015: 3 Mbps downstream to at least 85 percent of transferred lines by the end of 2013, and actual speeds of at least 4 Mbps downstream to at least 85 percent of the transferred lines by the end of 2015, with all new broadband deployment offering actual speeds of at least 1 Mbps upstream... Hopefully Frontier doesn't pull a muscle trying to deploy last-generation broadband technology to what will ultimately constitute a handful of additional households. In a statement (pdf), FCC boss Julius Genachowski proclaimed he was "pleased" by Frontier's willingness to play nice with regulators and their dedication to slow, last-generation DSL technology: I am pleased by Frontiers robust commitments to increase private investment in broadband in rural America; to deploy broadband with actual speeds of 4 Mbps downstream and 1 Mbps upstream, consistent with National Broadband Plan targets, to more than 4 million homes; to launch an Anchor Institution Initiative to provide fiber solutions of at least 1 gigabit per second to unserved and underserved libraries, hospitals, and public buildings; to direct new broadband universal service funding to households with no other option for broadband; and to make available to the Commission an unprecedented level of detailed data regarding Frontiers deployment... I am pleased by Frontiers robust commitments to increase private investment in broadband in rural America -Easily pleased FCC Boss Julius Genachowski |
Of course more than a few people (including an Illinois Judge) have noted that the deal infuses Frontier Communications with so much debt that next-generation upgrades probably won't be possible anytime soon. As it stands, Frontier Communications isn't exactly know for cutting edge connectivity anyway -- delivering 3 Mbps DSL to most markets. What's more, the company recently launched a new over-charging "trial" that could result with those user paying up to $250 a month for last-generation broadband. Such aggressive billing schemes are only made possible by a lack of competition in a carrier's markets. The company of course also has to suddenly deal with a huge influx of new customers that will triple its size. Companies like Comcast can generally attest to how that impacts your customer satisfaction rankings. Unions and consumer advocates alike are worried the entire deal could wind up like Fairpoint Communications, who acquired Verizon networks in New England -- and then subsequently imploded. For whatever it's worth, Genachowski says he takes these concerns "seriously" -- but found that the benefits of the deal outweighed the risks: I take seriously concerns that have been expressed about the risks this transaction poses for consumers, employees, and competitors. The Commission has conducted a rigorous, data driven, transparent, and thorough review of the transaction, including a close look at potential transaction-specific harms and benefits. No transaction is without risk, and this one has its fair share. But based on our review, considering the issues and concerns with the status quo path and Frontiers enforceable commitments to be good stewards of this vital infrastructure on behalf of consumers in its regions, we conclude that on balance the likely public-interest benefits outweigh the potential public-interest harms. In other words, the FCC thinks these users are better off with a debt-crippled, marginally competent phone company that overcharges users but at least wants these users. As opposed to keeping these users under the control of Verizon, who has pretty clearly shown they couldn't give a damn about rural American broadband infrastructure. Still, the FCC could have taken the opportunity to impose a few conditions that raised the bar just a little (gosh, bonded ADSL2+ to 35%? 6 Mbps to 75%?). Instead, as with all U.S. mergers, they timidly assumed bigger was better, and chose conditions that were largely for show. The last two Verizon efforts to offload unwanted markets (Fairpoint, Hawaiian Telcom) involved using a complicated financial trick (legal since 1996) known as a Reverse Morris Trust to thrust debt, angry regulators and annoyed unions onto fairly stupid small telco executives -- debt free. We use the editorially-aggressive term "stupid" because Verizon plans to return to these markets later and win these users back with LTE wireless broadband. That should work out nicely, given the partners involved will be so debt-crippled -- most users will still be on sluggish DSL by the time Verizon has their LTE network built out. Frontier has continually insisted this deal won't end like these previous deals did (bankruptcy, users crying, carrier inability to answer the god-damned telephone). Users will soon get to see if that's true -- as Frontier expects the deal to close by July 1. Enjoy your ridiculously expensive 3 Mbps DSL, everyone.
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 | | We'll see We'll see how it shapes out starting in July, I'm more than willing to go back to DirecTV if need be. | |
|  |  | | Does the sell void our contracts?
I have been wanting out of my Verizon contract for several months, but I'm unwilling to pay the ETF. Does anyone know if the sale will void our contracts and allow us a way out?
Thanks! | |
|  |  |  1 edit | Re: Does the sell void our contracts? said by Smokey99:I have been wanting out of my Verizon contract for several months, but I'm unwilling to pay the ETF. Does anyone know if the sale will void our contracts and allow us a way out? Thanks! Yes, your contract can be void once the deal goes through if you want to...Frontier can also raise the price on you as a result, but they're going to honor all existing contracts as is. If you want out, then you can leave whenever you want. I'm going to give them a few weeks to see if everything transfers properly. | |
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 Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium join:2002-03-03 USA kudos:4 | Alternative to sale is worse than the sale
This is the key:
FCC thinks these users are better off with a debt-crippled, marginally competent phone company that wants these users -- as opposed to keeping these users under the control of Verizon With a sale the FCC and the states got to make some demands about service. Without it they had no leverage at all.
And even if Frontier goes bankrupt, that will just lower costs to Frontier & allow Frontier to meet promises to the states and the FCC at lower cost; though the unions won't be real happy as their leverage for high paid contracts and benefits goes up in smoke. -- Are you happy with your rep in Washington, DC? | |
|  |  DolganPremium join:2005-10-01 Sun Prairie, WI Reviews:
·Charter
| Re: Alternative to sale is worse than the sale quote: And even if Frontier goes bankrupt, that will just lower costs to Frontier & allow Frontier to meet promises to the states and the FCC at lower cost; though the unions won't be real happy as their leverage for high paid contracts and benefits goes up in smoke. --
And the execs will keep all of their bonuses and pensions, while the average worker will lose theirs and will suffer along with the customers who will get poor service. It is pretty ironic at how easy it is to abrogate a contract that covers thousands of people, yet the contracts that cover one person are held sacred.
The service levels are already eroding and will only get worse. Garages have already lost 50-75% of their seasoned techs as they are smart enough to know to get out under Verizon so their pensions{vested at 5 years} will not be lost when Frontier files for bankruptcy. Their positions are now being filed by CSRs, who are given 1 month of piss poor training and thrown in the field. This will be worse than either the Fairpoint or Hawaiin Tel Bankruptcies as it covers many more people across more of the country.
Maybe it will be the wake up call the FCC and Governemnt needs to get them to act on real Telecom/Broadband reform. It is time that the Cable Cos and Telcos are held to the same exact standards for all of their services. The semantics of POTS vs VOIP being different classes of services when provided by the Telcos and Cable Cos is tired and should not apply. Cable service is delivered thru a combo of Fiber and coax to to the premise--it is still a landline as it would not work without the premise connection. The migration to pure wireless service is still decades away due to limitations of distance, signal interference, bandwidth, and latency issues. | |
|  |  |  AMDUSERPremium join:2003-05-28 Earth kudos:1 Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Alternative to sale is worse than the sale said by Dolgan: ".. The service levels are already eroding and will only get worse. Garages have already lost 50-75% of their seasoned techs as they are smart enough to know to get out under Verizon so their pensions{vested at 5 years} will not be lost when Frontier files for bankruptcy..." That is not surprising... in exGTE northern WI, Frontier is going to find out they bought some very shoddy copper. How very fortunate for the techs to leave to save their $$ though. In most of Verizons WI operations areas cable VoIP / internet are available- Charters 8 Meg is much more widely available than the VZ 7.1 Meg DSL. Most of Frontiers current telephone areas do not have cable phone or internet- which is why they can charge what they do.. | |
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 |  | | At least West Virginia got 70+ million to improve the outside plant before Frontier takes over. | |
|  |  |  herdfanPremium join:2003-01-25 Hurricane, WV | Re: Alternative to sale is worse than the sale said by ashworth:At least West Virginia got 70+ million to improve the outside plant before Frontier takes over. And Frontier's SE HQ. It seems WV imposed some of the strictest conditions on the deal of all the states. But if Frontier is bankrupt, those conditions won't matter. | |
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 |  Mark F join:2007-08-01 Fort Wayne, IN | Alternatives? We live in one of three areas (Portland and Seattle are the others) where Verizon is selling off it's FIOS TV and FIOS high speed internet service to Frontier. And, they have no experience in delivering us anything close to what we've gotten from Verizon.
We don't want to return to Comcast, as they haven't changed much since we left, and we can't get satelite TV due to trees.
So we wait and pray. Really hard. Mark F | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Alternative to sale is worse than the sale said by hottboiinnc:just because Frontier doesn't have experience running a FiOS network doesn't mean they can't. Com'om damn Why knock a company before they even get a chance to run it.  You also must have seen that the local field techs will be Fronter's as well. The local field techs can't do anything about the master hubs (or whatever they're called) if that quality turns to crap. | |
|  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Alternative to sale is worse than the sale and thats when VZ will take care of those data centers well at least in FL they will. | |
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 |  |  david_a join:2010-05-24 Beaverton, OR | Fios in the Portland area has been rock-solid since day 1!
The only broadband alternative is Comcast, and I definitely don't want to go back to their nightly slowdowns. | |
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 acadielPress fire to beginPremium join:2002-06-22 Bloomington, IL kudos:1 | Aw crap. Nuff said. --
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|  | | Don't mess with my FiOS I live in Washington State and I swear if they mess with my FiOS.....either CAP me or BLOCK me.....oh....it's on!  | |
|  |  | | Re: Don't mess with my FiOS said by SirChaos:I live in Washington State and I swear if they mess with my FiOS.....either CAP me or BLOCK me.....oh....it's on! Agreed. I'll not want to move to Comcast for internet but everything else I can change with ease to something else. | |
|  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | Just in, Frontier is upgrading your FIOS to new and improved Wildblue. | |
|  |  |  |  |  Mark F join:2007-08-01 Fort Wayne, IN | Re: Don't mess with my FiOS People like us who have Netflix, Itunes, Amazon, Rhapsody or any similar download/streaming service, or download a lot of files and software updates etc, are the ones who will be hurt by the ridiculous caps. My FIOS internet download speed is 25 Mbps, can/will Frontier match that or even come close?
And, can they guarantee that we'll keep the stellar picture quality, our favorite channels, the multiroom DVR, and other niceties we got from Verizon?
Very few forner Comcast subscribers would go back, and if satelite TV isn't an option, then what?
Our local TV news did a story about the Verizon/Frontier deal, but, like most similar stories, they only mentioned landlines. Not FIOS. Are we being lost in the shuffle? Mark F | |
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 Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| MMDS Maybe Frontier will be smart and kick the copper to the curb and start building out using a real network such as MMDS? WiMax? or something else. Would be cheaper in the long run and could do tripple play over it- IPTV, Digital Voice, and Internet and pass the savings onto the customer since they're won't be a last mile network to maintain. -- www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products! | |
|  |  iansltx join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO kudos:2 Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast
| Re: MMDS 1. Wireless can't cover every hollow. 2. Wireless is rather iffy on triple play (not enough capacity). TV takes a lot of bandwidth so unless you keep your subscriber to sector ratio really low it'll be hard to work out. 3. Who uses MMDS any more? Also WiMAX is expensive.
OTOH if Frontier can do what CenturyLink is doing (bonded ADSL2+) they might be able to hold on to their subscribers. Otherwise they can kiss them goodbye. | |
|  |  |  Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| Re: MMDS MMDS is still well alive: www.watchtv.com www.comwavz.net
Wireless is the only way to increase their cash flow and increase the services they offer. Even if they didn't use IPTV wireless would still be the best option in terms of cutting the major costs of the network.- the last mile copper. -- www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products! | |
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 |  |  | | Re: Frontier buys a Blivet! Well, you know, it's a NICE blivet. | |
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 | | Hey Karl this is totally random but, do you have FiOS? I've always wondered that eternal question.... | |
|  |  Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
| Re: Hey Karl I do have FioS. It's technically quite good. No outages in 2 years, relatively good pricing (thanks to competition here near NYC from Cablevision and Comcast).
But the billing is AWFUL (which you'll see reflected in my opinions, given I'm only human). Multiple instances of billing for services never ordered, several instances of being moved to a different price/tier after signing a long-term contract.
It's quite ridiculous. There's a very nasty ghost in the Verizon billing machine. I think their support systems have not kept pace with their fiber to the home advancements. | |
|  |  |  japPremium join:2003-08-10 038xx | Re: Hey Karl said by Karl Bode:There's a very nasty ghost in the Verizon billing machine. I've difficulty attributing it to ghosts. VZ is too competent in all areas of profit maximization: rapæge of municipal contracts, peering agreements, regulators, customers, and state & federal political infrastructures. Honest persistence of broken back office tasks looks implausible.
Do you know assessments of billing histories have been performed? Things like over vs. under charging, overcharge patterns by customer profiling, regional differences, etc.? Seems a consumer advocacy group could sample customer-supplied records with assurances of non-disclosure and come away with a good idea about the likelihood of VZ profits taking via bogus billing.
For most companies I would attribute such issues to incompetence. Verizon is too wealthy, able and consistently criminal. | |
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 n2ubp join:2007-07-13 Middletown, NY | I sure am glad I pulled out of Frontiers annual contract
Two weeks ago after suffering another 24 hour crash of blazing fast Frontier 3 mps ADSL speed (so they say) that took out the entire block I called them up and told them not to renew my "loyal customer" contract. There are other choices in my area, not cheap, but still choices. Free at Last, Free at Last, Thank &diety, Free AT LAST !!! | |
|  1 edit | One of the "unlucky" ones I guess I am unlucky enough to be in an area where it is Frontier, (possibly DSLExtreme), Comcast or nothing for any sort of broadband (sorry, I don't consider data cards (verizon wireless, et.al.), clearwire (wimax), or satellite to be real choices for broadband). Depending on what DSLExtreme has to say about caps I end up going to their service, I just don't like supporting a company with such a low cap. -- Computer: PIII/733, 512MB DDR RAM, ATI Xpert2000, 60&320GB HDDs, Windows XP PRO SP3, KIS 2010 AV/FW, Creative SB Live, Samsung SyncMaster 2443BWX, Verizon DSL 768/128 w/ Westell 6100 C90 & Linksys WRT120N | |
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·WOW Internet and..
| Re: One of the "unlucky" ones weather you support the telco directly or through a 3rd party ISP you still support the telco and much of that money you pay them goes directly to the telco for their services. -- www.twopugsbrand.com Kosher, Vegan, and Organic Certified Dog and Cat treats/foods and other products! | |
|  |  iansltx join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO kudos:2 | Have you used Clear WiMAX? Might not be a cable alternative speed-wise but can definitely best DSL in many cases (if you've got signal). | |
|  |  |  | | Re: One of the "unlucky" ones he doesn't count Clear as an option.  | |
|  |  |  |  iansltx join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO kudos:2 | Re: One of the "unlucky" ones I know, I'm just challenging his assumption that it isn't an option. | |
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 |  |  | | said by iansltx:Have you used Clear WiMAX? Might not be a cable alternative speed-wise but can definitely best DSL in many cases (if you've got signal). I have not personally, but I know people in my area who have and based on feedback from them I do not consider Clear/ClearWire to be a real option. -- Computer: PIII/733, 512MB DDR RAM, ATI Xpert2000, 60&320GB HDDs, Windows XP PRO SP3, KIS 2010 AV/FW, Creative SB Live, Samsung SyncMaster 2443BWX, Verizon DSL 768/128 w/ Westell 6100 C90 & Linksys WRT120N | |
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 | | hello Career politicians do not vote for the people. They would loose there career if they vote against the companies paying them. | |
|  |  | | Re: hello said by JamesPC:Career politicians do not vote for the people. They would loose there career if they vote against the companies paying them. I know, money talks and all that. Guess I am thinking it may be better for some to loose their career. -- Computer: PIII/733, 512MB DDR RAM, ATI Xpert2000, 60&320GB HDDs, Windows XP PRO SP3, KIS 2010 AV/FW, Creative SB Live, Samsung SyncMaster 2443BWX, Verizon DSL 768/128 w/ Westell 6100 C90 & Linksys WRT120N | |
|  |  Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Politicians and government agencies are in debt to the telcos for campaign contributions and "gifts". We have the worst government money can buy. I bet you cannot find one honest elected official in the entire federal government. The agencies are now being staffed with people that either used to work for the areas they are supposed to oversee or have guaranteed jobs waiting for them when they leave the agencies. | |
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 plat2on1 join:2002-08-21 Hopewell Junction, NY | customer satisfaction customer satisfaction can't possibly get any lower for frontier, so at least they have that going for them | |
|  |  BF69Premium join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN | One thing to consider If Verizon still owned those lines those 85% that will have "only" 4 Mbps DSL by 2015 most likely would have had zero DSL by 2015. I have friends that would take 4 Mbps DSL right now in a heartbeat. And there's no guarantee they'll have any DSL by 2015, 2020 or ever. At least these people have a guarantee. | |
|  |  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM join:2003-05-14 Fort Wayne, IN kudos:5 Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
| Re: One thing to consider said by BF69:At least these people have a guarantee. What good is a guarantee if the company can't deliver it? What are regulators going to do, fine them if they don't make it? Yeah, that will help them out financially. | |
|  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | 85% of those people already have 4mbps broadband, courtesy of a future Frontier Wildblue bundle. | |
|  |  |  BF69Premium join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN | Re: One thing to consider said by patcat88:85% of those people already have 4mbps broadband, courtesy of a future Frontier Wildblue bundle. Wildblue is NOT capable of providing 4 Mbps. In fact wildblue isn't even taking any more customers form east of the mississippi river. | |
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 | | Telecom Island I wish somebody would guarantee my area with DSL by 2015. I live in Central California in Fresno County where Verizon has an Island surronded by ATT.
They won't do anything for us and nobody wants to buy us out because they can't Reverse Morris trust with ATT.
Be thankful if you have DSL. and not living in a Telecom Island that nobody wants. | |
|  toddbs98 join:2000-07-08 North Little Rock, AR | You get what you vote for. If these people in these states get screwed by Verizon and Frontier they have no one to blame but them self since they voted for the people that approved the deal. -- Patriots always speak of dying for their country never killing for it. Bertrand Russell
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|  |  Sammer join:2005-12-22 Canonsburg, PA | Re: You get what you vote for. Since when do the people get to vote for utility and FCC Commissioners? Also these these deals have received approval in states controlled by both Democrats and Republicans so the common denominator seems to be phone and internet customers get screwed no matter whose in power. | |
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 | | All I want... to kick hughesnet modem out the door.
If frontier can do better then I would have no problem paying them | |
|  |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | Re: All I want... said by yolarry:to kick hughesnet modem out the door. If frontier can do better then I would have no problem paying them You'll get a Directv, Hugesnet, Frontier POTS triple play bundle. Hope you like it. | |
|  |  | | bundle? no thanks. I dont watch tv. | |
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 SteveConIBEW 2222 Boston, MAPremium join:2004-09-02 Boston, MA | MA & RI are next.. MA & RI are the new "ME, VT & NH" (a.k.a. Fairpoint) and I'd be willing to bet my next paycheck that we're next. I can't begin to think that FairPoint could even afford postage to mail an offer, and Frontier is too busy with their new North Central Area (that's what VZ calls it), to look at us. But guess who the ILEC is in our CT neighbor? That's right - ATT! Now, that's a company that wouldn't be too bad to work for if VZ puts us on the block. Time will tell. -- UNIONS: The anti-theft device for working people. | |
|  |  | | Re: MA & RI are next.. I agree that VZ wants to dump MA & RI. But didn't AT&T announce to the FCC last November that it wanted to unload its landlines too? | |
|  |  |  SteveConIBEW 2222 Boston, MAPremium join:2004-09-02 Boston, MA | Re: MA & RI are next.. said by Rand Wilson:I agree that VZ wants to dump MA & RI. But didn't AT&T announce to the FCC last November that it wanted to unload its landlines too? Really?? hmm.. I must have missed that announcement, it wouldn't surprise me though I suppose.
Everyone seems to think that LTE is going to be the end all for problems / costs associated with TelCo deployments and fault repair. On paper I suppose it could do a great deal of it - but what new set of problems will the industry find themselves with? I guess these companies will do *anything* to get away from their unionized work forces. -- UNIONS: The anti-theft device for working people. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  SteveConIBEW 2222 Boston, MAPremium join:2004-09-02 Boston, MA | Re: MA & RI are next.. Thanks for the link! -- UNIONS: The anti-theft device for working people. | |
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 | | I live in Washington State And i have 7 meg DSL and for almost a year and a half i have been down to 1 meg at night i have had 5 techs to my house and they all say its the network my line is fine and wasted several hours on the phone with Verizon. I was told by the MCO not to call back because of slow speed because there was nothing they could do because the trunk line that feeds the area was congested. So if Frontier can at least fix this problem i will be happy. | |
|  |  | | Re: I live in Washington State I have the 7 meg DSL from Verizon as well. It is rock solid, but I can get 20/1 from Suddenlink for less. I have a dry loop DSL and was just waiting for my contract to expire before switching... looks like the wait is over. | |
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 cptmilesPremium join:2004-04-22 Swayzee, IN | British Police I like the FCC imitation of the British Police..."Stop! or I'll say Stop, again!" | |
|  Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| Unbelievable It just amazes me how they can let this go through. Who wins in this? Verizon and only Verizon. They must have lobbied for this thing 24/7 and then some, greased everybody they possibly could. I just feel sorry for the customers who will be affected by this and the employees who get screwed. But hey it seems like nobody gives a crap about people's jobs anymore. It still comes down to the executive making all the money for not doing shit! And the hard working guy who does all the work getting crapped on and losing their job after how many years of service. | |
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