FCC Audit Shuts Off Navajo Nation's Satellite Internet Government and provider can't resolve double billing issue Tipped by alanhdsl 
Due to a problem with billing and payment, the Navajo Nation is likely to see their Internet service shut off on Monday. The 27,000 square mile reservation has been using satellite-based Internet provided by OnSat Network Communications. The tribes pay for about 10%-15% of the cost and the U.S. Government covers the rest of the bill. As a result, the government was none too happy when they found out through audit that OnSat had double-billed the tribes for the service last year. The FCC program which doles out this money is withholding it at the current time. In response, the satellite provider says the audit isn’t valid. Furthermore, it says it can’t pay its subcontractors without the cash and won’t continue providing Internet service to the Navajo Nation without payment. The tribes eventually planned to have a wireless network that wasn’t based on satellite but have intended to use this current network for at least a few more years.
|
  BK
join:2001-09-10
Chicago, IL | hmm sounds like OnSat has other problems besides their double billing..
anyone have them want to share their story? | |
|  | | | Re: hmm Sounds like we will be seeing OnSat in court. I bet they full well knew what they were doing. Hell, I've read stories where people inflate costs to the government astronomically. For instance, this one company was billing 100,000 dollars for parts like screws and such. It went on for a long time before someone happened to notice it. Basically, our government and its payouts are so inefficiently run, no one noticed fraud. Makes you feel like your tax dollars are well spent, ay? My guess, this company figured they'd tap the cash cow and are upset they got caught. Tough. I say make them give a year free to compensate for the double billing, or send the ceo / owner to jail. | |
| | | | | Re: hmm I have read articles that stated that the registration for the procurement process, especially with the Pentagon, is so costly that the companies add those costs to the price of whatever they are selling to the government.
The whole process, from registration to bid to R&D to milestones to completion is so complicated it HAS to be beastly expensive. Just reading the specifications on a bid has to require a very specialized ability. Too bad none of it results in savings and cost-overrun oversight, which I think was the initial objective. | |
| | | | | | Re: hmm A family friend worked for the Pentagon for many years. Now he has retired and does subcontracting. His current project (last I spoke to him), was to find ways to save the government money. It's odd how that works. The government is SO INEFFICIENT it has to literally hire people to find ways to cut cost. Instead of making smart choices beforehand, we're left with hiring people to clean up the mess. It's good for him. They pay well to their subcontractors. Still, our government's waste and irresponsible spending is ridiculous. They spend like money grows on trees. No wonder our dollar is so devalued. I said it before, and I'll say it again. The only difference between Democrats and Republicans are Democrats tax, and Republicans print more money and borrow to pay the debts. IE devalue our dollar. Right now, this country has added 5 trillion to it's deficit. I wonder how much of that was legit spending and how much of that were billion dollar contracts (Haliburton) that went unmet. | |
| | | |  marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:2 | The reasons for the ridiculous specs are the companies who weasel their ways around vague specs.
Unlike a private company, government has to award to the lowest qualified bidder even if they know that bidder will cut corners and deliver an inferior product. So, the only way to avoid the inferior product is to tighten the specs.
As an example, I was recently involved in a RFP writeup for county government. I wrote the spec pretty tightly including a requirement for the proposal to include measurements of accuracy for the product being delivered. One of the major bidders, Company A, then contacted us and said "Our product description states it fits inside these tolerances, our production methods should fit these tolerances, and our customers state from their experience that it fits these tolerances. Actually measuring the tolerances will create unnecessary extra expense that will greatly increase the price of the contract so you should remove the measurement requirements." Without going into what this product is... if it does not meet specs than a series of analysis based on the product will come out wrong (and unless you know the product is not in spec, you do not know the analysis are wrong) and the product must be created at a specific time frame. If you get an inferior product, you have no chance to go back and get a better one since the time frame is gone.
So, I contacted a company that I know does those measurements but was not competing on the bid to find out just how much it costs to make those measurements. Turns out that it is pretty cheap, they even just did it for Company A, but Company A was not happy about it and did not pay them. The answer was pretty obvious... turns out that Company A's product comes nowhere close to the required specs and they count on customers who do not have the expertise to realize the product is off spec or who simply will take an inferior product over no product at all (remember the time frame problem). To top it all off, Company A throws in a licensing clause that makes it a violation of the product license to hire a 3rd party to measure the accuracy of the product!!
And that was the real reason they wanted the supposedly unnecessary expense of accuracy measurements taken out of the RFP.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher | |
| | | | | | | Re: hmm Don't doubt you in the least. Seems sociopathic behavior is at epidemic levels these days. | |
| | | | | kherrPremium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL | I have a friend that's retired Navy, and he said that in chocolate chip cookies for the service, there has to be at least 26 chocolate chips in each and every cookie, not average. Imagine the quality control that takes place at the bakery. | |
| | | | | | | | Re: hmm Not to mention how much sugar our troops end up ingesting
Can you spell dentist?
26 per COOKIE? | |
| | | | | | |
1 edit | Re: hmm Ay, I guess if your life involves being shot at, you take comfort in small things. However, I hate to see how long it takes to count out the chips. Somehow, I would hope that the guy was joking and pulled a fast one on you. Sadly, I don't know whether or not he actually was. That's pretty bad, isn't it. | |
|
| | | | | | Doubt you can answer, but this wouldn't be power tools would it? Just wondering.... | |
| | | | | Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA | said by marigolds:The reasons for the ridiculous specs are the companies who weasel their ways around vague specs. Unlike a private company, government has to award to the lowest qualified bidder even if they know that bidder will cut corners and deliver an inferior product. They don't have to. They need to rewrite any rules that cause that. | |
|
|  birdfeedrPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
kudos:8 | said by BK:sounds like OnSat has other problems besides their double billing.. From the article:
"because of the possible overbilling and because the tribe didn't comply with federal rules that require it to select the most cost-effective service or equipment through a fair, open and competitive bidding process."
Possible overbilling, and documented compliance with federal rules. Hmmm. Both parties have some explaining to do. You know, everything the feds do require paperwork.
It's a case of the government giving out the money and then asking for verification of compliance with the process. "Hey, you know that money we gave you last year? Were we supposed to do that?" 
The money that's being withheld is for services in 2006-2007. So yeah, I'd be shutting them off for non-payment too. | |
| | | tantivy
join:2007-03-17
Palo Alto, CA | Re: hmm Based on the information provided, it's hard to tell what time period the payment is for, or how much the monthly bill is per chapter house. We can make a rough guess..
2.1 million is being withheld, if we assume that is the overpayment for 12 months service to 70 chapter houses, that works out to $2500 per month per chapter house.
Not knowing the level of service provided, I have no idea if that amount is high or low compared to other satellite providers. Given the lack of wired infrastructure, they have a choice between building their own distribution network, or using satellite.
Not knowing the geography of the area, I have no idea how much it would cost to provide wireless or microwave distribution to those chapter houses, and microwave backhaul to a ISP or peering point. | |
|
| | Sock it to 'em! OnSat should use the same tactics the credit card companies use.
When a satellite customer's payment is 1 nanosecond late, tack on huge late fees and some usurious interest charges to the balance owed. If the customer chooses to dispute the bill, make them call an offshore call center where they dump your call after a couple hour wait.
That would teach 'em to pay their bill on time! | |
| | emptywigHuh? What?Premium
join:2002-08-05
Pasadena, TX | Re: Sock it to 'em! RTFA
OnSat is accused of double-billing. Its not about anyone being late on their payment.
wig
--
Please keep your f---ing religion to yourself. | |
| | Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA | said by MasterCuffs :
OnSat should use the same tactics the credit card companies use.
When a satellite customer's payment is 1 nanosecond late, tack on huge late fees and some usurious interest charges to the balance owed. Better yet, do what most companies (like Capitol One, etc.) do: delay crediting on-time payments for up to three weeks, to make *SURE* they can charge the late penalties. | |
|
 r81984Fair and BalancedPremium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX | The real question is.... Why are we paying for the Navajo Nation's internet connection???
--
»www.ryanoneill.us | |
| |  Jim_in_VA
join:2004-07-11
Cobbs Creek, VA
kudos:4 | Re: The real question is.... maybe its because we ran them off their land in the first place?
--
=== evdotips.blogspot.com === | |
| | | | | Re: The real question is.... said by Jim_in_VA:maybe its because we ran them off their land in the first place? Who's "WE", paleface? | |
| | | | | | Re: The real question is.... Paleface? Do we have a racist amongst us? Are we stuck on something thats happened in the past? Everyone has been slaves in the past at one time or another, DarkFace people appear to be unable to realise and get over this simple fact.. I suppose the rebel flag is a sign of the KKK to you as well?  | |
| | | | |  antwanpBeyond FM, Beyond AM, XM Satellite RadioPremium
join:2002-05-14
Cedar Hill, TX | Re: The real question is.... It's not my fault that jackasses decided to use the Confederate battle flag as they're symbol of hatred. I'm more likely to assume you are klan if you "proudly display" it. Just like the Swastika used to be a symbol of peace. Well, Hitler ruined that one too (and the Charlie Chaplin mustache)
-Antwan L. | |
| | | | | | | said by Cracker01 :Paleface? Do we have a racist amongst us? Are we stuck on something thats happened in the past? Everyone has been slaves in the past at one time or another, DarkFace people appear to be unable to realise and get over this simple fact.. I suppose the rebel flag is a sign of the KKK to you as well? Actually, I'm Irish. My family immigrated here in the late 1700's. But thank you for disseminating your own racist views. | |
|
| | | |
| |  LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 | said by Jim_in_VA:maybe its because we ran them off their land in the first place? BS It is liberal guilt syndrome. | |
| | | |  Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:2
 ·Bright House
1 edit | Re: The real question is.... said by Linklist:BS It is liberal guilt syndrome. So, when I look up LGS in the dictionary, what will I find?
Inventing a diagnosis to custom fit the result you desire may not be the most credible assessment of a problem.
But undoing your knee-jerk, and returning to the point, are you content with ALL of the transactions between the government and the American Indians?
I can live with expansion through conquest. But once the conquest was over, it should have ended then. The US Government (which is still in existence) made and then broke more treaties, contracts and promises than we can count.
We should have left them in Virginia, Florida, Tennessee, etc as we promised; not brutally relocate them each time we found a crappier piece of land than the one they already occupied.
The collective American Indian tribes are the only US minority group, with which we have an outstanding debt. I'm OK with paying for their internet.
NV
Edited for nOmission | |
|
| | | It's through a program that creates start up infrastructure to remote areas without any access to internet. Once an entity enters in the program, they have to also develop a plan to have access made permenent. This Federal program isn't soley for tribes, and reservations, it's for any area that can show that they are being denied internet access because of ISPs refusing to spend the capital costs to reach them. | |
| | marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:2 | Because the federal government holds a huge chunk of tribal money in trust. Since the tribes are not part of any state, federal money goes directly to the tribe instead of through state government. | |
| | | | | Re: The real question is.... Actually, that money, held in "trust" by the BIA is the source of great controversy and litigation. Seems the BIA has not been an honest trustee in that relationship. Lots of them there Billions of Dollars seem to have gone irretrievably missing. The BIA and Department of Interior have been doing some world-class stonewalling on this, to the point of the judge in the case having to find some very important folks in Interior in contempt. | |
|
| | Wow how we quickly turn this into politics bashing contest Can we just stick to technology and how a shiaty company farked our GOV and a large group of OUR people out of a large sum of money
/Can all the "LIBS and CONS" go to Dailykos and Freepress | |
| |  DownTheShoreThanks To All The Shore VolunteersPremium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
kudos:12 | Re: Wow how we quickly turn this into politics bashing contest Very true - and that company must be counting on all those types of sideway digressions with the hope that their swindle will be lost in the shuffle.
--
Life is simply one damned thing after another. | |
|
| |  (topic offline) No Problem
This entire topic was removed, either temporarily, or permanently.
stated reason was: OT | |
| | | (topic offline) Another Bush Nazi Attack
This entire topic was removed, either temporarily, or permanently.
stated reason was: OT | |
|  grcoreChallenge Accepted
join:2003-12-06
usa | Good Shut em off.
I have to pay my bills, why do Navajo's need subsidized internet anyway.
Cry me a river. | |
| |
1 edit | Re: Good They deserve Internet, because they were forced to the remotest areas of Nm and AZ, so that you could have your prime real estate, with all your other materialist amenities. Now getting basic utilities to some parts of the Navajo is either costly or impossible. Navajos pay their bills where there's utilities to pay for! Get a clue man!
And any of these bally-hoos saying cry me a river, or Liberal guilt, need to do some research, and understand why these programs exist. As I wrote earlier, its not just the Navajo, or tribes, its areas without access, including non-native areas, be it a county, municipality, village corp. what have you. Since you decide to "cry your own river" because this story is about Native people, I guess it shows where your sentiments and prejudices lie. If you were out in the middle of East BumFreak, and the chance of DSL or anything was zilch, you'd participate in this program as well. Anyone would. Its people like this, I wish they would drop in the middle of a reservation, pump a few drops of blood quantum in them, and let them live for a few years. He'd be singing a different tune then, without a doubt.
But you enjoy your own internet, AND ACCESS, and right to spread this intolerence. For that, I am happy, thrilled, you are paying for the Navajos internet? or do you? Hmmmmmmmmm................. | |
| | |
| | They need to The Navajo Nation is a very competant tribe that can provide electric service to every house on the res. They should start up their own internet service provider then they wouldnt have to worry. I used to work in Flagstaff as a cab driver and I frequently took navajos back to the res. They all have very minimal bills and could easily pay for internet .
--
What's that beeping noise? And where's that smoke coming from? | |
| | Reviews:
·Shaw
| Re: They need to said by baked247:The Navajo Nation is a very competant tribe that can provide electric service to every house on the res. They should start up their own internet service provider then they wouldnt have to worry. I used to work in Flagstaff as a cab driver and I frequently took navajos back to the res. They all have very minimal bills and could easily pay for internet . Don't you forget the Navajo langauge is the prime reason Allied forces in WWII were able to encrypt their communications and keep them secret thus contributing to one of the single most important components to winning the freedoms you very much enjoy today and defeating Hitler and winning the world war. So never forget we have a duty to show gratitude for what their fathers and mothers and grand parents did for us all, despite what some of us white monsters have done to them through out history.
Sincerely,
The White Guy!!! | |
|
| |
|
|
