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story category FCC Boss Not So Impressed With Comcast News
So yeah, why was it you can't stop throttling BitTorrent right now?
05:01PM Thursday Mar 27 2008 by Karl
tags: fcc · business · bandwidth · net-neutrality · Comcast
As we mentioned this morning, Comcast will be changing their traffic shaping practices. As already noted, it's too early to tell if Comcast's new practices will be any better than the old ones, or if Comcast plans to be any more forthcoming with its customers. One thing's clear: FCC boss Kevin Martin isn't particularly impressed. In a statement (pdf) released this afternoon, Martin had this to say about Comcast's supposed "protocol agnostic" epiphany:
I am concerned, though, that Comcast has not made clear when they will stop this discriminatory practice. It appears this practice will continue throughout the country until the end of the year and in some markets, even longer. While it may take time to implement its preferred new traffic management technique, it is not at all obvious why Comcast couldn’t stop its current practice of arbitrarily blocking its broadband customers from using certain applications. Comcast should provide its broadband customers as well as the Commission with a commitment of a date certain by when it will stop this practice.
FCC Commissioner Robert McDowell, who recently told rural America that the FCC's inaccurate data says they don't actually have a broadband problem, was far less critical. He was, in fact, "delighted" with Comcast and took the opportunity to wax poetic on the luminous brilliance of the free market -- even though it was the threat of regulation that partially forced Comcast's hand. Other Commissioners took a wait and see position.

Perhaps Comcast will expand on their plans at the upcoming April 17 hearing in Stanford, but it's pretty clear that a single, vague press release (or Q&A sessions with Comcast lawyers where nothing is actually said) aren't going to get the FCC boss off the cable giant's back.

Related:
  1. Markey Added to FCC Meeting
  2. NY Attorney General Investigating Comcast
  3. FCC Boss Calls Comcast Traffic Shaping 'Troubling'
  4. Comcast Tells FCC To Butt Out
  5. Comcast VP: We've Admitted Nothing
  6. University of Colorado Researchers Retract Claims
  7. FCC Net Neutrality Meeting at Stanford Today
  8. FCC's Martin: No Net Neutrality Laws Needed
Forums » FCC Boss Not So Impressed With Comcast News

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zed260

join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN

now

looks like fcc boss may be a lot stricter on this then i thought but im not counting on it

gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:

Re: now

I just hope they don't forget about all the other providers who are doing the same things.
--
Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240

Karl
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Re: now

I continue to think it's strange that Cox has avoided absolutely all fallout when we documented last fall how they're doing the exact same thing to P2P traffic...

Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
clubs:

Re: now

Comcast is a larger target and is in the media a lot more because of the sheer size and the mentality of anything large being evil. More microscopes (or in this case opening your eyes a bit) more dirt.

Skeedatl
To Provoke and Annoy
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Re: now

Plus they initially denied everything and only after getting caught finally owned up to what they were doing.
zed260

join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN
cox is honest at least when you ask them

Skeedatl
To Provoke and Annoy
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Re: now

And on their site they clearly state their monthly caps (unlike Comcast).

RadioDoc
Put Out The Cat
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest

said by zed260 See Profile :

cox is honest at least when you ask them
I think that is the reason right there. The coverup is always worse than the act being covered up.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.
zed260

join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN

Re: now

in my opinion id rather pay 300 dollors a month for an honest internet provider then a penny for a dishonest one

Skeedatl
To Provoke and Annoy
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Re: now

For a penny, I'll take the dishonest one, but $46-$56? No way.
LeftOfSanity

join:2005-11-06
Felton, DE


edit:
March 28th, @08:03AM

said by zed260 See Profile :

in my opinion id rather pay 300 dollors a month for an honest internet provider then a penny for a dishonest one
Said the pirate. lol

Edit: Not saying you are personally, just thought that was funny.
VariableARK

join:2003-03-17
USA

agreed, if you don't like comcasts practices, go to another provider, there are plenty of providers out there that DONT block traffic, or that are honest. Vote with your dollars, thats how capitalism is supposed to work, not with constant government intervention.

King P
Don't blame me. I voted for Ron Paul
Premium
join:2004-11-17
Inman, SC

Re: now

especially when comcast is one of your TWO choices for internet providers, with the other being AT&T. Yep capitalism at it's finest right here...
VariableARK

join:2003-03-17
USA

Re: now

I nearly guarantee that there are other smaller providers in your area, you just need to look. And on the very off chance that there isn't, if you care enough and there is a market for it, start your own ISP. Simple, capitalism is a self-regulating system; a Ron Paul voter should know that

funchords
Robb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Hillsboro, OR
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast


edit:
March 28th, @02:54PM

Re: now

said by VariableARK See Profile :

I nearly guarantee that there are other smaller providers in your area,
the FCC killed that possibility in 2005.

While you're right that nothing prevents new companies from joining the fray, any new carrier has to lay its own redundant infrastructure, tearing up the rights-of-ways just to place their fiber on top of Verizon's fiber, or their copper along side of AT&T's copper, or their coaxial cable atop Comcast's.

And after they're done tearing up the town, let's watch the companies fight it out as they blame each other for cutting wires or interfering with signals on wet crossed lines.

Dumb way to go -- there are plenty of rich people who could be investors, but there's not a lot of dumb rich people who would invest in such a perilous venture.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
FCC Public Hearing on the Future of the Internet - Thursday, April 17th - Stanford Univ., Calif.

funchords
Robb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Hillsboro, OR
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast


edit:
March 27th, @07:15PM

said by Karl See Profile :

I continue to think it's strange that Cox has avoided absolutely all fallout when we documented last fall how they're doing the exact same thing to P2P traffic...
I think it's strange that anyone believes a word that Comcast says. This is the Comcast that:

1. Told the FCC in 2005 that they would not degrade traffic in order to convince the FCC that network neutrality regulations were not needed.

2. Started degrading P2P traffic the very next year, and failed to tell anyone what they were doing.

3. Used a system that utilized forgery, and successfully placed blame on the other peer instead of Comcast.

4. Denied it when caught.

5. Then changed their story when the denials were not believed, but still never came out and said what they were doing.

6. Then they justified their actions by throwing their other Cable-Internet brothers and sisters under the bus with their "they do it too!" defense

7. Then stealthily changed the AUP days before an FCC filing where they referred to the new provisions.

8. When the changed AUP started getting press attention, they stated that a prominent story on Comcast.net alerted millions of visitors of the change and accused Marvin Ammori of crying wolf. (Google cache proved that nothing alerted users to the changed AUP until the day after the press started asking questions.)

9. Then they packed the Harvard FCC hearing.

This company has not demonstrated that you can trust its promises, nor can you believe its assertions. Comcast just used BitTorrent Inc. as a tool to try and defang the FCC.

BitTorrent Inc. is a content provider. Vuze, who actually DID make a complaint and petition to the FCC, is a competitor. Neither BitTorrent, Vuze, nor Comcast represents the interests of 12 million Comcast users nor the The Internet Society nor the public. And this middle-of-the-night deal was made without their input.

Nothing has changed. The RST interference continues. It was a wrongful act. BitTorrent Inc. has no right making a deal with Comcast allowing it to continue to commit wrongful acts until it finally decides it is ready to stop. The correct relief is to stop the interference immediately and to FULLY DISCLOSE what it did and to accept responsibility for those actions. (Even today, Comcast's Policy VP refused to answer questions about the interference.)

Their word is worthless. Until the interference stops, I have no reason to believe it will. Until either meaningful competition returns to broadband, or until sufficient government regulation enforces Network Neutrality, we have no reason to think that this agreement will last through the night.

Robb Topolski
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
FCC Public Hearing on the Future of the Internet - Thursday, April 17th - Stanford Univ., Calif.

BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
clubs:
·Cox HSI

Its simple Karl See Profile, Cox never denied it and has been more open about it. Nobody can accuse them of a cover up, conspiracy theories, etc, it takes the wind right out of the fall out sails.
--
"Don't steal. The government hates competition."
brandpc

join:2003-08-25
Canton, CT
·Sprint Mobile Broa..

Yes, its intersting. This forum was complaining and complaining about Martin just a few months ago. Now it seems like he is perhaps doing something partically right (even if only in an attempt to screw over cable for the bells or perhaps just for PR)

Somnam
L33t.
Premium
join:2002-12-05
Mullica Hill, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast

why?

being a major p2per i'm against all traffic shaping that could impact my speeds

HOWEVER

why should the FCC tell a company what they can or cant do? if i were so dissatisfied with comcast's traffic shaping, i would switch to another ISP.

the fact that some regions dont have other ISPs is a direct result of FCC over-regulation! why not have the FCC serve all internet and television and regulate itself?
--
Somnambulator - t3h 5133pw41k3r


SEyE TF2 Server
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EPS

join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

Re: why?

Considering that most of the population has very limited choices for broadband internet:
- Massive Telephone Company
- Massive Cable Company
- Massive Wireless Company (perhaps owned by Massive Telephone Company)
The argument goes that the FCC should regulate practices because otherwise, there'd be nothing stopping every provider from doing the same- indeed, if said practices made the company money, there'd likely be little reason not to, as most people won't bother switching providers unless the violation is utterly massive.
The FCC's authority over cable companies comes I believe from the Cable Act and use of regulated frequencies over coaxial cable.
joker5656

join:2006-06-23
Greenville, SC
·Charter Pipeline

self regulation would help to a certain extent. the thing is that they would sign agreements saying you want come in this area and i want go in this area. And believe it or not that stays true even now. The only places where you would see two cable companies competing in the same city would be big city's. So either way you cut it, were still going to only have one ISP provider. sorry DSL just isn't an option especially when they sell you out to the NSA or FBI with no warrants
EPS

join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

Re: why?

I never understood all this criticism of DSL- I used it for years and never had a single problem with it... And the warrantless NSA thing is completely irrelevant, since that was about phone records- you really think that if the feds started asking for internet records, the big cable companies wouldn't fold just as fast as the telcos? Please...

RadioDoc
Put Out The Cat
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest

Re: why?

Not to mention that now that cable is a telco, that they'd waste no time delivering the goods to NSA if asked on that front, too.

The whole NSA fiasco needs to be reflected back onto the source...the NSA. I'm really sure all of the yappers would resist a covert government official knocking on their door.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.

TK Junk Mail
Drop dead to the DDos scum
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
·Comcast

Martin - get aclue

Martin:
While it may take time to implement its preferred new traffic management technique, it is not at all obvious why Comcast couldn’t stop its current practice of arbitrarily blocking its broadband customers from using certain applications.
Hey Kevin, how about if they stop the old way before being able to implement the new way, their network may become overloaded and make things worse for all their customers and not just the hoggish P2P'ers.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

Nightshade
Beware the Blue Rabbit
Premium
join:2002-05-26
Salem, OR


edit:
March 27th, @07:34PM

Re: Martin - get aclue

Yeah no kidding. He should of at least give time for Comcast to come up with the plan to transition to Comcast's protocol agnostic way (whatever the heck that is) before spouting off what the telcos tell him to speak.

Martin, meet foot in mouth and head in ass.
--
True Happiness Must Come From Within

digitalfreak
Frodo failed. Bush has the ring

join:2005-12-09
Blacklick, OH

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

Martin:
While it may take time to implement its preferred new traffic management technique, it is not at all obvious why Comcast couldn’t stop its current practice of arbitrarily blocking its broadband customers from using certain applications.
Hey Kevin, how about if they stop the old way before being able to implement the new way, their network may become overloaded and make things worse for all their customers and not just the hoggish P2P'ers.
Or how about they become proactive and upgrade their networks like Verizon instead of thinking only short term?

TK Junk Mail
Drop dead to the DDos scum
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
·Comcast

Re: Martin - get aclue

said by digitalfreak See Profile :

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

Martin:
While it may take time to implement its preferred new traffic management technique, it is not at all obvious why Comcast couldn’t stop its current practice of arbitrarily blocking its broadband customers from using certain applications.
Hey Kevin, how about if they stop the old way before being able to implement the new way, their network may become overloaded and make things worse for all their customers and not just the hoggish P2P'ers.
Or how about they become proactive and upgrade their networks like Verizon instead of thinking only short term?
Maybe you missed the part where Japan, with their world renowned BB capability, hasn't been able to build their way out of congestion. P2P is drowning their network too.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
Nintendo

join:2007-03-17

Re: Martin - get aclue

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

Maybe you missed the part where Japan, with their world renowned BB capability, hasn't been able to build their way out of congestion. P2P is drowning their network too.
Have you ever been to Japan or lived there and used the internet? I would have to say not. Having a few fiber connections in Japan i can say this is absolutely not true. Never once saw local speeds in side of Japan drop not even for an instance. Speeds stayed at a constant 80+ mps, would have been higher with a better computer.

I think you should talk to some of current users who are in Japan now, as i am not. You will find the same story.

Sorry, but i think what ever news source you used is either outdated or simply wrong.

TK Junk Mail
Drop dead to the DDos scum
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
·Comcast

Re: Martin - get aclue

said by Nintendo See Profile :

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

Maybe you missed the part where Japan, with their world renowned BB capability, hasn't been able to build their way out of congestion. P2P is drowning their network too.
Have you ever been to Japan or lived there and used the internet? I would have to say not. Having a few fiber connections in Japan i can say this is absolutely not true. Never once saw local speeds in side of Japan drop not even for an instance. Speeds stayed at a constant 80+ mps, would have been higher with a better computer.

I think you should talk to some of current users who are in Japan now, as i am not. You will find the same story.

Sorry, but i think what ever news source you used is either outdated or simply wrong.
»blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=1078&page=2

»blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=1063

Check out the charts
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Nintendo

join:2007-03-17


edit:
March 28th, @03:47PM

Re: Martin - get aclue

mmm...I guess you missed my point. I have been there and have used the internet in person and have never seen a single slowdown. Sorry, don't need to see your links. What ever your gripe is with P2P, i probably agree with you, but suggesting Japan has a shortage of bandwith is just plain false.

Also, I'm highly suspect of any article that claims TCP is "unfair". Further, It is unclear which "network" they choose in the graph, as Japan has more than one "network".I had more than one provider there, and they were not on the same network.

Sorry, your flat wrong on this one.

If there really was congested network i would see slowdowns. Again, please find a user in Japan with this problem and get back to me, and good luck to you sir.
espaeth
Misanthrope
Premium
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Minneapolis, MN
·Embarq
·Comcast

said by digitalfreak See Profile :

Or how about they become proactive and upgrade their networks like Verizon instead of thinking only short term?
Verizon is deploying FiOS to get into the video distribution game -- that's what the ROI is based on. They're also limiting the markets of deployment of that technology; much of Verizon territory will rot away with aging DSL hardware for years to come.

Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
02101

Comcast has stopped throttling BitTorrent right now

As of today, all uploading and seeding is unimpeded here, encrypted and unencrypted.
zed260

join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN

Re: Comcast has stopped throttling BitTorrent right now

not right now it is not i think they still are just they say they will stop

JustTheFacts

@comcast.net

How about?

Maybe just throttle the p2p thieves way back to DSL speed and leave us honest people at 20,000/2,000.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs:

Re: How about?

said by JustTheFacts :

Maybe just throttle the p2p thieves way back to DSL speed and leave us honest people at 20,000/2,000.
Not all P2P users are thieves. Nice try though.

prestonlewis
Premium,MVM
join:2003-04-13
Sacramento, CA
·VoiceStick
·Comcast
·Pacific Bell - SBC
·DSL EXTREME
·Vonage
·VoicePulse

said by JustTheFacts :

Maybe just throttle the p2p thieves way back to DSL speed and leave us honest people at 20,000/2,000.
And what would you do with the newsgroups (usenet) which is vastly full of legal content but also has the occasional movie?

Besides, what does an honest person NEED with 20,000/2000? That's a lot of legal (or illegal) porn you're downloading.

digitalfreak
Frodo failed. Bush has the ring

join:2005-12-09
Blacklick, OH
said by JustTheFacts :

Maybe just throttle the p2p thieves way back to DSL speed and leave us honest people at 20,000/2,000.
LOL. This from someone with the screen name of JustTheFacts.
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