 
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA | What? Dramatic decreases in prices?
Where? | |
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yzerman
Premium
join:2001-12-04
Grand Rapids, MI | Re: What? I don't think he will ever get it. | |
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| Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| said by Anonymous  :Dramatic decreases in prices? Where? How about Verizon Fios:
Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps $34.95 - $39.95
Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps $44.95 - $49.95
BellSouth's Ultra tier (1.5mb/256k) for $32.95/month when back in 1998 when it was initially rolled out at $69.99/month.
SBC Yahoo "DSL Express" for $16.99/month
Just a few examples.... | |
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| | JonR800
Premium
join:2003-08-06
Farmington, MI | Re: What? Ahh.. so by HERE you really mean.. NOT HERE.
SBC doesn't count, I'd be tied to phone service that I wouldn't use for another $20-$25/month. | |
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| | | Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| Re: What? said by JonR800 :SBC doesn't count, I'd be tied to phone service that I wouldn't use for another $20-$25/month. We weren't discussing telephone service. We're talking about broadband price decreases which have steadily declined in the last 5-6 years, atleast in the Telco/DSL world. And I would attribute that decline directly to cable company competition. | |
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packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs: | Re: What? WOW.
when you mentioned SBC that brought telephone into the picture.
Sadly in most areas Verizon doesn't compete against SBC. | |
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| | | | | Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| Re: What? said by packetscan :WOW. when you mentioned SBC that brought telephone into the picture. Sadly in most areas Verizon doesn't compete against SBC. What the hell are you talking about? This thread is about price decreases. Where did I ever say Verizon competes with SBC??? They don't compete in any areas as far as residental service goes. Man, your posts never make sense.
Oh, I thought you added me to your ignore list...Please do. | |
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packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs:
 ·Optimum Online
| Re: What? First you start out talking about pricing on Verizon fios which is POTs independent.
Then you mention SBC dsl which requires a POTS line.
However you don't state the price. So your comparison is Flawed.
Then when JonR800 makes a valid comment that sbc doesn't count and you correct him by saying "We weren't discussing telephone service. We're talking about broadband price decreases"
I was surprised that you corrected him even though you still fail to see the Link between Fios and SBC and the Pots requirement that Drives up the price.
Frankly You need to stop correct people when you are not providing a valid or correct argument/statement.
Lastly i will ignore no one.
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Who do you want to pay off today? | |
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| | | | | | | Eek2121
Lovin Verizon FIOS
join:2002-10-12
Flanders, NJ
| Re: What? REGARDLESS of if it drives up the price, that makes no difference, prices have still come down. 2 years ago 1.5 mbit speeds were $60 or more, AND you needed phone service. With cable you need cable TV or you pay a premium. The absolute cheapest you can get a cable internet connection for through comcast for instance, is $60. 42.95 (plus tax) for the internet, $15.00 or cable TV OR 57.95 for internet (plus tax). | |
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| | | | | | psychomf
join:2000-06-01
Silver Spring, MD
| i think the connection here to telephone services that this person is making is the fact that you have to purchase a home phone line BEFORE you can sign up for DSL....that way the cost of the phone line factors into the cost for the broadband since you cant get it without that. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| said by JonR800 :SBC doesn't count, I'd be tied to phone service that I wouldn't use for another $20-$25/month. The majority of homes still have some form of POTS service. While cellphone-only, VoIP, and/or cableco provided telco services are increasing in popularity, I think they are still in minority. Also don't forgot to treat the competion fairly as well. Many cablecos charge extra for HSI if you don't subscribe to cable as well. Same deal.
Even if you take that into account, Verizon's $15 plan plus basic POTS service is still about $15 cheaper in my neck of the woods then the cheapest Comcast offering (standard list prices are presumed for everything).
If you don't want to go the cheap route and FiOS is available, a 5/2 plan is available with no phone service for $35/month with a 1 year commitment.
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"What gives them the right to come in and do this?" she said. - Lady complaining that she was getting FIOS in her backyard. | |
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| | CyberTrip
join:2004-11-22
Ridgecrest, CA
| said by Cod :said by Anonymous :Dramatic decreases in prices? Where? How about Verizon Fios: Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps $34.95 - $39.95 Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps $44.95 - $49.95 BellSouth's Ultra tier (1.5mb/256k) for $32.95/month when back in 1998 when it was initially rolled out at $69.99/month. SBC Yahoo "DSL Express" for $16.99/month Just a few examples.... What about cable internet? Prices aren't budging on that. Prices from what I've seen still average between $39.95 - $59.95 not counting multi-package discounts. | |
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| | JonR800
Premium
join:2003-08-06
Farmington, MI | One more thing. "back in 1998", which is where speed packages like 1.5/256 should stay. | |
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| | | Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
1 edit | Re: What? said by JonR800 :One more thing. "back in 1998", which is where speed packages like 1.5/256 should stay. Your way off base here and are comparing apples and oranges.
said by Anonymous :Dramatic decreases in prices? Where? That was the initial question. I gave an answer in the example of 3 products that have decreased in price or are cheaper then would have been 5 years ago.
Argue all you want about speed packages, etc. Were talking about price decreases. | |
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| | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| I agree, what decreases in prices?
Comcast hasn't budged for me in 3-4 years, except when they started charging me the "non-bundling" fee. Used to be $45/mo, then they said "get CATV or your price will go up anyway", price went to $60/mo and there it has stayed.
The telcos have rolled out "incentive" pricing, like 29.95 for first 3 months, then up to 39.95 or whatever. When you look at these rates over 2-3years there is very little saving over paying full rate for the whole time. And, the only reason the telcos are giving these temporary discounts is because they're getting scared of falling behind the cablecos. Just not scared enough to permanently lower prices. | |
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| | | Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
1 edit | Re: What? said by nasadude :The telcos have rolled out "incentive" pricing, like 29.95 for first 3 months, then up to 39.95 or whatever. When you look at these rates over 2-3years there is very little saving over paying full rate for the whole time. And, the only reason the telcos are giving these temporary discounts is because they're getting scared of falling behind the cablecos. Just not scared enough to permanently lower prices. If you look at the first post of mine with the three telco examples, they are not promotional rates but regular pricing. BellSouth has come down over 50% in price since introduced (from $69.99 to $32.95) and I'd estimate SBC somewhere in the same neighborhood percentage wise. FIOS hasn't been out long enough to see substantial price decreases but they have had some decreases on their 30mb/5mb product. I'd say this is a very large price decrease on the telco side of broadband as a whole. | |
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n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
| said by Anonymous :Dramatic decreases in prices? Where? Agreed. WTF? Decrease in price? Optimum Online is still $49.95/mo for me though I have to say they did upgrade my speeds recently to 15/2 from 10/1. Kind of like the cellphone companies; they will keep throwing in more minutes but they don't reduce the price. I can only talk so much or download so much.
Personally I would be willing to take 5/1 or 3/512K for $29.95/mo. I am hard pressed to use the extra speeds I am getting too many servers out there that do not have uploads capable of feeding a 15Mbit download.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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jpl931
join:2001-02-22
Herculaneum, MO |  In the land of make believe | |
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Hipjones
join:2004-05-14
Smithfield, VA | Deployment? Deployment is at a standstill exceptfor new housing projects in the city.Give it to everyone and then we will talk!! | |
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wilbilt
Pronto Resurrected
Premium
join:2004-01-11
Oroville, CA
| Re: Deployment? Quote-" I think we're going to see quite dramatic changes, but what's critical for all of those changes is increasing connections, increasing connection speeds and making sure it's ubiquitously and affordably done for everyone in the country."
Yeah, right.
Somebody wake me up when that happens...
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Rural users don't need broadband. We're just a bunch of hicks on Welfare. How about outsourcing your call centers to us? | |
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| bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: FCC Dereg efforts are succeeding said by GOLFnSUN :Regulation only leads to stagnation and higher costs as companies spend huge amounts of money dealing with and buying off bureaucrats and politicians. They "spend huge amounts of money dealing with and buying off bureaucrats and politicians" regardless of whether there is regulation or not. Deregulation will never solve that problem. As well, deregulation creates new problems itself.
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Support "W"
Axial tilt is the reason for the season... Happy Solstice! | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: FCC Dereg efforts are succeeding said by KoolMoe :... I like Free Market in principle, but a Free Market with no government oversight breeds monopolies, which in turn stagnates innovation. ...
Amen to that. The bells sat on DSL technology for years, terrified that it would eat into their vastly overpriced DS-1 "private line" business. To this day, they throttle one direction of the connection to preserve the artificially high price point of private line services.
Martin thinks we have competition now? What if he and his cronies had preserved line sharing and reasonable rates for unbundled loops and collocation space? Rhythms, NorthPoint, and Covad might be right out there with cable and incumbent telco.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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| nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| I think I already asked you this on another thread Road Warrior, but what telco do you work for?
Honestly though, do you consider the U.S. falling from 1st in the world to 16th in the world in broadband a success on the FCC's part? That's what has happened while this FCC has been on the job.
I do give credit to comcast for upgrading their plant for HSI and digital TV, but what the heck! when you're a monopoly with a 35% or so rate of return, ya gotta do something with all that money! | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
3 edits | Re: FCC Dereg efforts are succeeding said by nasadude :I think I already asked you this on another thread Road Warrior, but what telco do you work for? Never worked for a telco. I was Dir Telecomm/Datacomm at a large multi-state corporation and negotiated contracts(along with a passel of lawyers, which explains why I hate lawyers) with major telcos and network equipment vendors before I retired. During my tenure, in a 5 yr period, we cut our telecomm budget from $20 million/yr down to $5 million/yr and did that without outsourcing the work. So for us the 1996 dereg worked great.
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: FCC Dereg efforts are succeeding ...and how much of that savings was LD savings, from the competition in LD which developed when the ILECs were kept out and competition developed nicely without Ivan, Ed, and the other monopolists controlling the business?
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: FCC Dereg efforts are succeeding said by calvoiper :...and how much of that savings was LD savings, from the competition in LD which developed when the ILECs were kept out and competition developed nicely without Ivan, Ed, and the other monopolists controlling the business? calvoiper Most of that was in Long Distance voice savings and in reduced private line data costs. But a good chunk was in lower costs for PBXs/CBXs as well. And in a switchover from an old IBM SNA network to an intranet setup with routers, switches, etc.
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Re: FCC Dereg efforts are succeeding Well, the LD and private line data costs all dropped because of "managed competition". PBXs exist only because the Bells were required to allow them as competition for Centrex service. So, except for the direct Internet savings over the SNA, it was all due to "managed" or "regulated" competition, not total free market yee-hah.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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rbrugman
join:2002-09-22
Marquette, MI | !!! I think Martin was smoking crack or something....that or the telcos and cable companies cut him a deal. If the article would have read "dramatic increases in prices, sub-par speeds and halting deployment" he would have been a little closer. | |
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jimbo2150
join:2004-05-10
Youngstown, OH
| Competition? What competition?
I am fortunate enough to live close enough to the inner part of a rather large township where SBC has deployed DSL probably due to the fact that there are generous helpings of rich neighborhoods in the area. "Competing" with SBC is the local cable company which I no longer see as competition.
The local cable company has upped everyone's 3Mb/s tier to 5Mb/s (for a similar price to to SBC's 3Mb/s tier), and also converted their 5Mb/s tier to a 10Mb/s tier for the same price as SBC's 6Mb/s tier. Unfortunately, Im stuck in a year contract with SBC (another one of their 'non-competing' strategies).
My uncle, who lives about 5 miles from my abode, only has cable available to him. He is 'just' out of range of the CO and I have not seen any RTs out his way. Yet heading the other direction there are a few new housing developements being built out that way and I see SBC trucks and RTs everywhere.
I will consider it competition when at least 98% of america has a choice of either, contracts are not involved, and the speeds offered are the same/very similar.
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dg2
Premium
join:2004-01-22
Lowell, AR
·Cox HSI
| Re: Competition? Good point.
Two pipes? Sorry. Only one broadband pipe is available in our neighborhood. We're 18,000 to 28,000 feet from the CO (I guess the wire length changes with temperature  ). RTs? Yes, we have one. No, DSL is not available from it. Nor can we have our phone circuit switched to it. I guess it's for "other people."
I agree with you - "competition" doesn't exist in many parts of the country. | |
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tatbh
| What competition? Talk about the black hole! There are many backwater towns in this country without so much as a DSL line, was that the kind of 2 pipe coast to coast competition he was talking about, or only metropolitan cities, some of which are barely getting dsl, and small, antiquated fiber nodes just rather recently (2-3 years).
What about next generation GPON fiber to the home!! Where the hell is it? Why hasn't it arrived YESTER_FRIGGEN_DAY!!!
Greed, foot dragging, and other nonsense,
We should have 100/100mbit coast to coast already, while countries like S. Korea laugh at our 768kbit dsl lines.
Oooh, 768kbit faxmodems V.Stupid modulation
There will be a generation cycle (10-20 years) before broadband really gets going again, by that time the 40yr olds generation who was the key demographic in the '90s will just about be heading for the old age home. The sense of urgency to build things in this country has stopped, we'll have to outsource it to other contries, and import it back in, pre-fabricated fiber strung on telephone poles all ready to stomp into the ground, and then hire undocumented workers to come and install it. Si' fiber node go here.. | |
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Obliteration
Premium
join:2005-09-18
Somewhere
| Who exactly makes the broadband laws? I can't remember who is in charge of that but even the damn FCC understands that more competition equals better service and prices. If the FCC can understand that then why the hell ISN'T there more competition?
I got 1 choice.... Comcast and Comcast. I wonder who I will buy service from for my HSI. | |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
| PRESS Why is it impossible to get a reporter that can actually ask the "right" questions to conduct one of these interviews? Someone actually versed in the damn subject to start with, not just some newb that believes all the BS the Bells and Cable cos throw their way.
Someone that knows enough to, say, stop Martin when he starts talking about BPL like it's actually a viable solution.
Someone that stops Martin when he spins "a la carte" into family safe programming.
Someone that will ask Martin why the hell he doesn't stand up and tell the sponsors of these obviously ridiculous pro-cable/pro telco bills to take a flying leap?
It's bad enough to have stupid politicians, but just as bad to have press that won't call these tools out.
If you're going to take the time to investigate something for a story, actually do some investigation.
End of rant....
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»www.tricitybroadband.com | |
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| Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO | Re: PRESS It's usually because in order for them to get the interview they have to agree NOT to ask tough questions. Or the interviewed person gets to see the questions that are going to be asked first and strike those they don't want to answer. | |
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| OnTheNet
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Broadview Heights, OH
| said by batageek :Someone that will ask Martin why the hell he doesn't stand up and tell the sponsors of these obviously ridiculous pro-cable/pro telco bills to take a flying leap? End of rant.... Because he can't. Just follow the money and look at the past two years plus of regulatory policies giving the telco's back what was broke up for competition.
Here is a short list of things going on...
a) Line sharing was removed--- harming ISPs, CLEC.
b) closing of the cable networks to ISP
c) the closing of the UNE -p competitive service, thus the death of AT&T and MCI,
d) the premature entrance of the Bells into LD without stable competition
e) the Bells' getting the 'green-field' new fiber builds, and thus blocking competitors.
f) Bundling of LD, Wireline and DSL by the incumbents.
g) unchecked cross subsidization.
h) VOIP being taxed and surcharged ---
i) total lack of enforcement.
j) massive consolidation of the wireline, wireless and cable markets. | |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
| Re: PRESS And we know Martin can't....
But that's really only part of the problem.
The press is brain dead too...as brain dead as the consumers/elected/etc. that buy into all the crap the telco/cable cos shove down their throat.
I mean really...we have all these "John Stossel like" investigative reporters out there who are happy to rail on the bs of any given President/CEO, yet in the telco/tech/cable world, they don't stop and tell Martin/Whitacre/Roberts - "Hey wait a minute...You're full of sh1t!"
I suppose this is more of a hypothetical than anything, but damn I'm really sick of reading dumb@ss remarks that any high school kid knows are false or misleading. The Gov/Companies feed it out there and no one calls them on it.
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»www.tricitybroadband.com | |
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| | | OnTheNet
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Broadview Heights, OH
| Re: PRESS said by batageek :And we know Martin can't.... The press is brain dead too...as brain dead as the consumers/elected/etc. that buy into all the crap the telco/cable cos shove down their throat. I have been trying for quite sometime to get reporters and their editors, to look into the many screwed up policy fiasco's coming out of Washington. But when you get the WSJ giving Martin op-ed and none to others in rebuttal, it's hard to understand such motives.
As a former dialup ISP owner, I know first hand how our ability to provide our customers with broadband has been all but eliminated. Many of our customers are very disappointed when we can not continue to be their ISP.
Our only choice is to refer them to a DSL or Cable provider in their area. While this provides us with a one-off spiff from the provider, we still offer to provide other services, and mostly that is keeping their email account active.
»www.wbia.us | |
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JPGrimmace
join:2003-09-16
Pontiac, MI | Bullcrap "we're very fortunate that we've actually got two pipes"
His wife is fortunate to be getting two pipes. Although I doubt her husband is fond of the idea. | |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD | i don't have two pipes OK, Kevin, where the heck is my other pipe? All I got is the comcast monopoly.
What an @sshat. If he didn't have his head so far up the telcos/cablecos orifices, he would be able to see what kind of "competition" we have in the U.S. | |
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easymoney862
join:2002-06-08
Dallas, TX | Totally Clueless I think the Chief is totally clueless. | |
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packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs: | Re: Totally Clueless he knows exactly what he is doing. Following the script that was written for him.
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Who do you want to pay off today? | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
| Two monopolists make a duopoly, not competition... Somebody who's been around the FCC for a while needs to remind this doofus of a Chairman that when there were only two cellular companies offering service, they set prices at a level far above marginal cost--the common result in any duopoly.
Only after we got a third entrant (from either Nextel or PCS services) did we see cellular prices drop and see common benefits like free LD and free nights and weekends.
Time to catch this guy at some conference and lecture him.
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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| JohnSJ
join:2004-08-14
Lafayette, LA
| Re: Two monopolists make a duopoly, not competitio Thank you, Calvoiper, thank you. A duopoly is not competition and any elementary economics text you care to consult will echo your point. Duopolies save very little money; instead they segment the market in some stable way and continue to gouge at a point just below the point for monopoly rents.
The big debate is over how many companies it takes to have real competition and the answer is, of course, "it depends" but I've not seen a number below 5.
Your cellphone example is one of the best cases of this. Recent consolidations auger a rise in prices; the days of cheap cellular may be fading. The FCC will have blessed this loss of competition. These guys are supposed to know what they are doing! (I worry that they do.) | |
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CableConvert
Premium
join:2003-12-05
Atlanta, GA | Read MY Bill What idiots he must think we all are | |
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FCC Chief on Competition
FCC Dereg efforts are succeeding
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