 | | FIOS Look at the Verizon FIOS on the Graph!
WTF is going on with Cablevision? | |
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 |  | | Re: FIOS said by DataRiker:Look at the Verizon FIOS on the Graph! They were pretty lucky to get special measurement / reporting (unlike U-verse and DOCSIS3.) I expect Verizon will play this up as an ISP vs the select/limited areas that FiOS is available. -- "Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy | |
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 |  |  | | Re: FIOS said by yt:They were pretty lucky to get special measurement / reporting (unlike U-verse and DOCSIS3.) Please elaborate on this statement. | |
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 |  |  |  | | Re: FIOS What other ISP got a special measurement category around a specific product / technology over a selected footprint? -- "Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy | |
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 |  |  |  |  CylonRedPremium,MVM join:2000-07-06 Bloom County | Re: FIOS What other large ISP has residential fiber??? | |
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 rudnickePremium join:2004-10-23 Rantoul, IL kudos:3 | MediaCom Looks like MediaCom fails on the download speeds. | |
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 |  | | Re: MediaCom said by rudnicke:Looks like MediaCom fails on the download speeds. That's no surprise, been there done that... | |
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 joakoPremium join:2000-09-07 /dev/null kudos:5 | Comcast Loves Packet Manipulation PowerBoost really fudges the numbers. Comcast customers see above 100% of the advertised speeds *on speed tests* -- PRescott7-2097 | |
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 |  | | Re: Comcast Loves Packet Manipulation Actually, they are pretty careful to take such shaping into account in the measurement:
The test is over 30 seconds of full rate, with three concurrent TCP streams. The bandwidth delivered is only measured in the last 5 seconds.
(There is also reporting on the first 5 seconds, which captures the boost effect). | |
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 |  |  BHNtechXpertBHN StaffPremium,VIP join:2006-02-16 Saint Petersburg, FL kudos:86 | Re: Comcast Loves Packet Manipulation said by nweaver:Actually, they are pretty careful to take such shaping into account in the measurement:
The test is over 30 seconds of full rate, with three concurrent TCP streams. The bandwidth delivered is only measured in the last 5 seconds.
(There is also reporting on the first 5 seconds, which captures the boost effect). Boost technology thresholds vary from provider to provider. It is IMPOSSIBLE for them to adjust for it and get meaningful data. The only way to work around it would be to test each time for an extended period of time attempt to detect the drop then start the benchmark...a very difficult task. Not only are the speeds skewed but also the consistency of service. In the case of consistency or QoS anyone using boost technology would have their connection QoS poorer than someone not using boost technology.
This is pretty much why this whole thing is waste of time because virtually all the majors are now using some form of boost technology on one or more tier offerings. -- "I cant give you a surefire formula for success, but I can give you a formula for failure: try to please everybody all the time." ~ Herbert Bayard Swope | |
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 |  |  |  iansltx join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO kudos:2 | Re: Comcast Loves Packet Manipulation Comcast, TWC and Cox use PB. Others don't. | |
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 |  |  iansltx join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO kudos:2 | PowerBoost may still be in effect 30 seconds after a multistream download starts. After PB dies speeds are roughly as advertised *shrugs* | |
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 |  |  |  BHNtechXpertBHN StaffPremium,VIP join:2006-02-16 Saint Petersburg, FL kudos:86 | Re: Comcast Loves Packet Manipulation said by iansltx:PowerBoost may still be in effect 30 seconds after a multistream download starts. After PB dies speeds are roughly as advertised *shrugs* It's not that simple my friend. I and many others have tried to work around PB in broadband benchmarking and it's extremely difficult and differs like I said earlier with each provider. It also tends to cause havoc with streaming and other applications where the streaming engine is inferior or intolerant of wide datarate fluctuations and/or slower or misconfigured PC's. Simply put PB is great for marketing and real crappy for real world performance where consistency of datarate is important. -- "I cant give you a surefire formula for success, but I can give you a formula for failure: try to please everybody all the time." ~ Herbert Bayard Swope | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | Re: Comcast Loves Packet Manipulation Comcast's implementation is a "leaky token bucket" shaper, which is over all flows on the user. Since the burst capacity is generally around ~20 MB of data, this should be gone after 10-15 seconds at the data rates we are talking about, so at least for Comcast the measurements are highly likely to exclude powerboost effects.
Additionally, this is data which, IIRC, is or will be made available, including packet traces, through Mlabs. If so, you can validate for yourself that the sustained data rate has dropped down, excluding the burst effects.
And this may make consistent datarate apps unhappy (OTOH, constant datarate apps need to adapt anyway because of cross-traffic), but it makes bursty-interactive apps, like web surfing, very happy. | |
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 |  | | said by joako:PowerBoost really fudges the numbers. Comcast customers see above 100% of the advertised speeds *on speed tests* Read the report a bit more. That data is for sustained speeds and taken after the Powerboost effect. If you add PowerBoost back in they exceed Fiber as much as 150% (130%-200% over provisioned speed for upload) -- "Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy | |
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 |  | | I totally agree with you! When I saw Comcast over 100% I thought it's a joke! There is no way Comcast is delivering over 100%!! | |
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 |  |  | | Re: Comcast Loves Packet Manipulation said by Scuty :I totally agree with you! When I saw Comcast over 100% I thought it's a joke! There is no way Comcast is delivering over 100%!! I think the facts show different and they are. -- "Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy | |
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 |  |  |  jlivingoodPremium,VIP join:2007-10-28 Philadelphia, PA kudos:1 | Re: Comcast Loves Packet Manipulation said by yt:said by Scuty :I totally agree with you! When I saw Comcast over 100% I thought it's a joke! There is no way Comcast is delivering over 100%!! I think the facts show different and they are. Indeed - the facts do show otherwise. These results ran tests on end points that SamKnows and the FCC controlled, to M-Labs servers. There were 1,109 test units in our network. The average peak period and 24-hour sustained (i.e. without PowerBoost) speeds met or exceeded advertised speeds - both upstream and downstream. This is on page 15 of the FCC report.
The numbers with PowerBoost are on page 20 and 21 of the report. One of our tiers achieved 152% of the advertised download speeds, and all were over 100%. In the upstream, one of the tiers delivers over 220%. On a related note, the recent ShaperProbe paper shows similar data, and demonstrates how regularly PowerBoost is delivered. -- JL Comcast | |
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 |  |  | | Why not, since they hardly let their transfer any data? | |
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 |  plat2on1 join:2002-08-21 Hopewell Junction, NY | comcast customers see above 100% because they over-provision. standard 12/2 is actually 13.2/2.2. | |
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 |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK | That's the cool thing about this method of data collection.
It's not being faked out by caching or packet shaping. This is real time, long term data. -- "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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 n2jtx join:2001-01-13 Glen Head, NY | Cablevision Yes, OOL is not what it used to be. I remember back in 2001 when 10/1 speeds were the envy of everyone. -- I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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 |  MxxCon join:1999-11-19 Brooklyn, NY | Re: Cablevision I am one of the test subjects with SamKnows router on CV's network. I had CV install Docsis3 modem and ever since then my speeds have been advertised 15/2 any time of the day, any day of the week. It's the vast majority of Docsis2 modems that still suffer during peak hours. -- Check out my awesome city of MxxTopia »mxxtopia.myminicity.com/ind or »mxxtopia.myminicity.com (the more people visit, the bigger it is) | |
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 |  dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ kudos:4 | said by n2jtx:Yes, OOL is not what it used to be. I remember back in 2001 when 10/1 speeds were the envy of everyone. And the terajet was *the* modem to have! -- Oh YES! let me drop everything i'm doing regardless of who it affects to deal with your petty little problem! | |
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 |  |  Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Cablevision What's going to happen when lots more 15/2 customers switch to docsis 3 modems? Do "new" customers on the entry level package still get Docsis 2 modems? I'm shocked Comcast fared so well.. with their soft caps, they've gone a long way to throttle usage so that the network is delivering high speed bandwidth, but everyone consumes less or will be kicked off the network-- same kind of deal with AT&T and many other cablecos, so those caveats need to be defined.
Can't wait until The Islanders leave Long Island... can't happen fast enough. | |
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 |  | | Re: Satellite I agree. I guess Hughesnets zero percent during peak hours would have ruined the headline. | |
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 | | Fairpoint? Why isn't Fairpoint in there? Are they below 50% or something? | |
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 |  Smith6612Premium,MVM join:2008-02-01 North Tonawanda, NY kudos:22 | Re: Fairpoint? They probably didn't have too many people with Fairpoint to be able to give results. I think SamKnows/The FCC was looking for a large test subject for particular ISPs. | |
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 | | Interesting to see how many Cablevision subs Cablevision looks way out of the norm . My guess is that sample size had to be out of wack for CV.
Now my isp, Windstream they just suck all the time so no suprise in their numbers and yes I have one of those SamKnows routers. | |
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 | | FCC commisioners should get 80% of their pay I like how report takes the tone that 80% of what you pay for is ok. | |
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 |  See 7 replies to this post |
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 Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
| Time Warner Must be nice to live in markets where Time Warner actually invests money into their infrastructure. I don't know anybody in my area that receives 90% of their download speeds from 8pm to 10pm.
At my last apartment I was lucky to get 3mbps during those hours on my 10/1 connection. | |
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 ssavoyPremium join:2007-08-16 Dallas, PA Reviews:
·Comcast
| Comcast fudges speed tests My downloading over the past 24 hours on Comcast. Only once did it spike over what I pay for. Of course I get 25mbps consistently on speed tests but the real speeds I get are about 40-50% of what I actually pay for (the dark black line in the image).
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 |  See 6 replies to this post |
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 MannusPremium join:2005-10-25 Fort Wayne, IN Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
| My monthly SamKnows stats for July I am currently in frontier's 15/5 FiOS speed tier. My stats have been like this for the past 6 months at least, consistently. | |
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 |  MxxCon join:1999-11-19 Brooklyn, NY | Re: My monthly SamKnows stats for July very interesting and accurate stats typed in notepad  | |
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 |  |  MannusPremium join:2005-10-25 Fort Wayne, IN Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
| Re: My monthly SamKnows stats for July said by MxxCon:very interesting and accurate stats typed in notepad  What's wrong w/ my stats? I took them directly from my webpage report.
My webpage report is here if it makes you feel any better. »reporting.samknows.com/reportcar···d1db651d | |
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 | | Actual / promise ration and FiOS Some people write that they don't get the actual/promised ratio as given in the report. Remember, the report uses a large database and an individual experience may vary from it. From Qwest VDSL, I get consistent upload / download speed >92 % of the advertised speed with a latency of 24 ms. Qwest's statistics in this report are far worse than that.
What struck me in this report is the superior performance of Verizon FiOS. Will some one educate me, why FiOS is far superior to other technologies ?.
I am waiting for a day when Fiber-to-home internet comes to Boulder, CO. | |
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 |  | | Re: Actual / promise ration and FiOS Because fiber does not suffer from line attenuation like copper does and it has a ton more capacity then copper thus they are not as effected by bandwidth constraints that a copper plant will experience. | |
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 |  |  UnnDunnPremium join:2005-12-21 Brooklyn, NY Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Actual / promise ration and FiOS said by Skippy25:Because fiber does not suffer from line attenuation like copper does and it has a ton more capacity then copper thus they are not as effected by bandwidth constraints that a copper plant will experience. Fiber does suffer from attenuation and distance limits. Fiber lines must be amplified and repeated at regular intervals. But what Fiber does not suffer from is interference. Fiber interference is so negligible, even over long distances, as to be non-existent. | |
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 |  |  | | Re: Actual / promise ration and FiOS Thanks a lot for sharing your insight. | |
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 Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Comcast
| ALL going down hill I noticed 1 thing ALL of them have in common (not so mcuh Verizon FIOS)..... They ALL are going down.
This either suggest 1 or 2 things.
1) Major American ISP's services are becoming poor. Through lack of development and over taxed networks.
Which would be ironic since ALL of them have been raising their rates 2,3, sometimes 4x a year in the name of wanting to improve their services. 
2) Something I have always suspected, but never could prove.... When you 1st sign up, you are given priority network access. And once you "get use to" having their services. They figure you'll be less likely to switch and will settle for less and / or will not notice. -- HP Pavilion a6750f (tweaked) Windows 7 Ultimate 64 * Mac OS Snow Leopard »www.SociallyUncensored.eu - Tired of feeling censored? | |
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 |  See 9 replies to this post |
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 | | AT&T LOL I love it - Not only do subscribers not get the advertised speeds ever, there is also very little slowdown during peak hours.
But, but, the metering! And the congestion! We need it so badly! | |
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 | | ATT I wonder if there are lawyers out there just waiting for someone to sue ATT. The last time ATT was sued for this, I didn't get anything out of it cuz the account was not in my name though i was paying for it. Bummer. | |
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 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Sam Knows Participant. I was one of the test subjects.. was nice getting the reports and seeing exactly what my bandwidth & Latency was during off peak and peak times. FIOS user here and the reports sure helped knowing during peak times playing Battlefield Bad Company 2 it was just me sucking at the game and not a bandwidth issue 
Received an email stating the test was over, and later this year they are going to do it again, which I guess means I get to keep this $139 netgear router they sent. Unless Sam Knows is planning on sending out an upgraded router. Nowhere could I find any statement saying I had to return it. | |
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 |  | | Re: Sam Knows Participant. I thought for a while whether to signup and get the free wnr3500L router. Decided not to, fearing that the company will live up to its name (Sam Knows what you are doing ). Also was worried that the test packets will eat up my monthly . Nice to hear that it went well for you. I think you can keep the box. Flash it up with dd-WRT to make sure that it is NOT sending your data without your knowledge. | |
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 |  |  MxxCon join:1999-11-19 Brooklyn, NY | Re: Sam Knows Participant. Your tinfoil hat fell off. SK's testing module is opensource. Netgear firmware is opensource. They do not know what you are doing. They are not snooping on your facebookses and twattors. All the do is run benchmark about once an hour of there's no other traffic on the line. They are using about 2gigs/month worth of bandwidth. -- Check out my awesome city of MxxTopia »mxxtopia.myminicity.com/ind or »mxxtopia.myminicity.com (the more people visit, the bigger it is) | |
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 |  MxxCon join:1999-11-19 Brooklyn, NY | um..i have SK router and i never received any emails that the test is over...i still see performance stats on »reporting.samknows.com
You don't have to return it. You get to keep it regardless if you participate in this test or not. -- Check out my awesome city of MxxTopia »mxxtopia.myminicity.com/ind or »mxxtopia.myminicity.com (the more people visit, the bigger it is) | |
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 |  Mele20Premium join:2001-06-05 Hilo, HI kudos:4 | Read that email again. The test is NOT over. Testing continues at LEAST until the end of this year at which time there will be another report released publicly.
Testing originally was scheduled for a MINIMUM of THREE YEARS after which we could do whatever we wanted with the Netgear router. I suspect it may end at the end of one year simply because of the economy but we have NOT been told if it will continue after the second report is released at the end of the year.
The current report is ONLY FOR THE MONTH OF MARCH 2011. Plus, only about 6000 of the 9000+ testers results are represented in the PDF report.
From the email:
"Both SamKnows and the FCC plan to continue the project and to work with the ISPs, Academics and consumer groups to increase transparency generally in the marketplace. Wed like you to remain on the panel as there are plans to do another report at the end of this year and to compare the results between the two reports. We will keep running the tests and keep giving access to the data. If you have any questions, please dont hesitate to contact us. Otherwise, well look forward to working with you!"
So, don't go trying to flash that Netgear with third party Tomato, or whatever, firmware yet. 
The email goes on to say:
"Were also looking for more volunteers so we can continue to grow the panel, so if you have any friends, colleagues or neighbours that would like to measure their broadband performance using the FCC/SamKnows tests, please direct them to SamKnows.com and well try to send them a Whitebox."
So, anyone interested sign up! I don't know if you will get a Netgear though. I have the Netgear but had a lot of problems with it in bridged mode (it worked fine though when I took my router out of the picture) so SamKnows, about 2.5 months ago, sent me a different router . I am the first tester in the USA to have it. I like it a lot better, at least for bridged mode.
-- When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson | |
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 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| samknows FAQ's here are a few FAQ's regarding this test, what data they look at and what is transmitted as well as how they address those few (or many) that have cap's...
»www.testmyisp.com/faq.html
They are recruiting more users should those non tin foil wearing hat users want to participate. | |
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 | | .. Seems to be limited to only major isp's. Seems like it would be a better idea to get the whole picture instead of just most of it. I would have participated but I guess I can't. | |
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