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FCC Launches Investigation Into High TV Prices
Martin continues to pretend he's a consumer advocate...

The Associated Press reports the FCC has launched an investigation into the pricing policies of major cable operators and Verizon Communications. The agency sent a letter to a slew of cable companies and Verizon, asking them if they're using the nation's transition to digital broadcasts to trick customers into paying more (by moving analog channels to costlier digital tiers to make room for HD or broadband). Kevin Martin, post-FCC political aspirations in tow, is "concerned":

quote:
"I’m certainly concerned with the increasing cable prices that consumers are facing," Martin said. "They are getting less and being charged the same or more."
Of course this is the same guy who helped kill off independent ISP competition, keeps broadband penetration data out of the hands of the public, and never met a telco-lobbyist supported position he didn't like, so the consumer advocacy schtick is a little hard to swallow. Martin doesn't mention how he promised that the dismantling of the local video franchise system would result in lower rates, though the slew of new state laws he helped pass for the baby bells by demonizing local franchise authorities simply acted to strip away consumer protections.

While Martin includes Verizon in the inquiry for good measure, this latest move will no doubt fuel the cable industry's belief that he's targeting them unfairly. Of course this could all quickly become irrelevant, given it's very likely that last night's election victory for Barack Obama means that Martin will soon voluntarily resign to pursue his political aspirations in North Carolina. Several people we trust say that current DC gossip has Blair Levin potentially taking over as FCC boss. Could an investigation that starts as a joke evolve into something real?
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DaveDude
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey

DaveDude

Member

I like this thread

I guess not having an over site group really worked out.

»people thew away freedom for a quick fix



Anyone who was against franchising is going to crying one day, when service levels aren't up to par. People said "oh. 10m, i don't care about my consumer safety laws, just give the bandwidth.!" Wait until they cant get on service when they need it.


djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

djrobx

Premium Member

Re: I like this thread

Franchise agreements only cover the "lifeline" basic OTA tiers, and reliability/customer service issues. The price hikes on standard service that most people are complaining about in this instance aren't covered.

Competition is a much better motivator if you want more for your money. How often does a franchise really deny renewal anyway? I think the one time I read about that happening, the cable company sued the crap out of the city. If I was stuck with crappy service, I'd much rather have an actual alternative to switch to, rather than hoping some fines will motivate my provider into getting their act together.

Personally, I see my TV dollars going a lot further than they used to. Compared to my other utility bills, the triple play $99-ish deals seem like a hot deal. Of course, there's always room for improvement.

-- Rob

JKL in NBK
@comcast.net

JKL in NBK

Anon

Analog channels

I don't see what the complaint is about cable moving to digital tiers, when all broadcast TV is supposed to be digital by Feb. anyway, and theoretically the analog broadcast stations will be gone from cable. The cable networks will also probably migrate to digital because people will want HD and the cable companies will want bandwidth.

I agree with you that this appears to be a political stunt that came too late.
Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Lazlow

Member

Re: Analog channels

IF they were charging the same amount for the digital channels as the analog channels then I would agree with you. Since the channels are already in digital (most channels are available that way now) shouldn't it be cheaper for them to rebroadcast them than to convert the signal back to analog? So why are they charging more for the same channels?
nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD

nasadude

Member

Re: Analog channels

said by Lazlow:

...shouldn't it be cheaper for them to rebroadcast them than to convert the signal back to analog? ...
they are not allowed to down-convert digital signals to analog (some amendment passed by congress!), so they have to transmit analog channels. I believe it's so people on the basic tier don't have to get a box - so even after the transition, if you have an old analog TV, but subscribe to a basic cable tier, you can still get channels on your old tv without a box. The basic tier is the only cable programming still regulated by the govt.

this requirement goes away eventually, but I forget when.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: Analog channels

said by nasadude:

so they have to transmit analog channels.
Basic only, i.e. locals, for cable companies with any analog transmission capability.
said by nasadude:

this requirement goes away eventually, but I forget when.
2012.

»fjallfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_ ··· 70A2.txt

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to nasadude

Premium Member

to nasadude
said by nasadude:
said by Lazlow:

...shouldn't it be cheaper for them to rebroadcast them than to convert the signal back to analog? ...
they are not allowed to down-convert digital signals to analog (some amendment passed by congress!), so they have to transmit analog channels. I believe it's so people on the basic tier don't have to get a box - so even after the transition, if you have an old analog TV, but subscribe to a basic cable tier, you can still get channels on your old tv without a box. The basic tier is the only cable programming still regulated by the govt.

this requirement goes away eventually, but I forget when.
The cable franchising agreements for BASIC cable only REQUIRE a very small set of cable channels(usually local OTA channels, and a couple PEG channels). The channels being moved to digital tiers are most likely not included in those agreements. If that is true, and I think it is, the FCC doesn't have a leg to stand on when demanding price decreases for basic tiers.
Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Lazlow to nasadude

Member

to nasadude
How is that going to work? After the cutoff date stations will only be transmitting in digital. If they are not allowed to convert from digital, where are they going to get the signal from? I knew that they had to continue life line(for a while) in analog but I assumed it would just be a signal they converted from digital. I also think that the FCC is letting them bypass this requirement IF they provide a free converter box until that required date. Which, depending on how many you would have to support, may be a cheaper way out for the cable co's.

dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI

dnoyeB

Member

Re: Analog channels

I did not think cable companies got their local TV signals OTA. Is this true?
Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Lazlow

Member

Re: Analog channels

I think some do but most have a direct feed. But that feed is still in a digital form. Think about how individual stations get their "feed" from the head office, digital.
raybrett
join:2001-02-20
Saint Louis, MO

raybrett to JKL in NBK

Member

to JKL in NBK
My complaint was that they removed the analog channels but but did not decrease the price of the service to reflect the loss of channels. I am not sure if they raised the price of the digital tier to reflect the cost of the additional channels, but I suspect that they did not.

Morac
Cat god
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ

Morac to JKL in NBK

Member

to JKL in NBK
As has been mentioned there are two problems:

1. Digital tiers cost more than analog tiers and you also need to rent a cable box, so you need to pay more to get the same channels.

2. The analog tier costs are staying the same (or going up). If you pay $50 for 60 analog channels and they move 20 of them to digital, you are now paying $50 for 40 analog channels which is basically a price increase.
nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD

nasadude to JKL in NBK

Member

to JKL in NBK
said by JKL in NBK :

... and theoretically the analog broadcast stations will be gone from cable. ...
no, that's not what's going to happen:
quote:
The agency also will look into whether cable operators and Verizon are confusing customers by linking the shift of the analog channel to the digital tier to the nation’s transition to digital broadcasts, Martin said.

The two moves are unrelated.
the cablecos are mandated to keep the analog channels for some period of time, so the analog channels will still be around on cable after the transition. At some point in the future, however, cablecos will be allowed to stop all analog transmissions and go all digital (which they really want to do right now).

the issue is that cablecos are removing channels from that analog line up and putting the channel onto a digital tier, to reclaim the bandwidth for digital (HD mainly). When that happens, the analog customer has that many fewer channels and thus the brouhaha.
ashworth7
join:2001-10-06
Pittsburgh, PA

ashworth7

Member

Re: Analog channels

The digital conversion which the FCC mandated by 2/09 for local broadcast channels(antenna) has nothing to do with how cableco/VZ provides their service. The thread is about these companies using this as a sales ploy to sell their services and the FCC is looking into it. Comcast here will be the same(analog/digi)for quite sometime(couple of years), and Fios is already digital.

Corehhi
join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC

Corehhi to JKL in NBK

Member

to JKL in NBK
Wrong. My cable company charges $30 extra on top of the analog channels to get the digital channels. They are moving the good channels to the digital plus all pay TV are already there. If you want HBO you pay $42 for analog tier plus $30 for digital tier plus $12 for HBO. Life line cable is $12 but you can't add the digital tier.

When analog goes off the air my cable company will convert to an analog signal and you will not get digital TV unless you pay for it.

My only other choice is Sat. and that's why I have sat.
jsb825
Premium Member
join:2003-10-08
Exeter, NH

jsb825 to JKL in NBK

Premium Member

to JKL in NBK
for people that are on a tight budget, such as my dad who is on comcast, being told they had to upgrade to a digital cable box because of the transfer in feb was a rip.... seeing that the conversion process is simply the source going into a transcoder to the analog system of cable and then out to the tv. so what is going to change. the cable companies are trying to recoup some cost of some minor equipment upgrades and forcing people to take a cable box and because they now have a digital cable box they need to be bummped up to the first digital tier of service.. for my dad. he was paying 51.90, now because of all the bull its now 71.81 so 20 bucks more and what does he get? 5 extra channels that he doesnt watch... so seriously an investigation is warrented .. specially for people on a budget that can not afford the extra 20 bucks.

after the nagra 3 boxes come out for dish, i am going to get him one.... stick it to ya that way comcast!!!!!!
Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Lazlow

Member

Re: Analog channels

Recouping the cost of the equipment has very little to do with it. They want the bandwidth. Analog channels take up much more bandwidth per channel (4:1 or more). If they dump all the analog channels they can use the recovered bandwidth to add more channel. Some of that bandwidth will be used by HSI, either channel bonding(Docsis3) or putting fewer modems per channel (Docsis 2 or older).

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

Free Bentleys For All!

Perhaps the FCC should launch an investigation as to why so many luxuries are out of the reach of the common man.

There's no rocket science here. Cable TV and Internet are priced at the highest rate that people will pay for it and no less. This is true even in markets where cable and phone company offerings are comparable (e.g., Cable TV and Internet vs. FIOS TV and FIOS Internet). As long as people cheerfully pay the rates charged for these services will have no reason to go down.
bcoleman71
join:2007-09-18
Dallas, TX

bcoleman71

Member

Re: Free Bentleys For All!

said by pnh102:

As long as people cheerfully pay the rates charged for these services will have no reason to go down.
Who's cheerfully paying for these services? I'm not! If I could get it for less I would jump to a lower price in a nanosecond! The fact is there isn't much in the way of competition. I have Time Warner and RoadRunner and my only other choice is AT&T for broadband internet or satellite for TV. I, along with many other consumers feel the services are overpriced, so what are you gonna do when you have few choices? Some people have no choice at all BUT to pay the higher price cheerfully or otherwise!

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

Re: Free Bentleys For All!

said by bcoleman71:

The fact is there isn't much in the way of competition.
Competition plays more of a part in terms of which provider can offer better services overall as opposed to who can offer a better price. Even in competitive markets we've not seen price drops, but we have seen other improvements.

You might get lucky if you threaten to cancel over high prices and they offer a discount.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88 to bcoleman71

Member

to bcoleman71
said by bcoleman71:

said by pnh102:

As long as people cheerfully pay the rates charged for these services will have no reason to go down.
The fact is there isn't much in the way of competition. I have Time Warner and RoadRunner and my only other choice is AT&T for broadband internet or satellite for TV. I, along with many other consumers feel the services are overpriced, so what are you gonna do when you have few choices?
T1 line. T3 line. Run your own fiber from the nearest IXP. Its only about $10 per pole per year in pole rental costs. Launch a blimp with a Wifi repeater on it. 5 GB cap EVDO.
burger2000
join:2001-06-25
Madison, WI

burger2000

Member

Re: Free Bentleys For All!

That's odd. We pay approximately $3 per pole attachment bi-weekly. Fiber isn't all that bad. Last I saw it was about $0.58/ft for a 12-count.
nutcr0cker
join:2003-04-02
Chandler, AZ

nutcr0cker

Member

Another Bushie that needs to go

I hope Bush takes his bitch with him when he leaves

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList

Premium Member

i just...

hope that they b****-slap some of the tv operators after this is all done.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: i just...

lol yah that will happen. Comcast, TWC, and Cablevision will slap the FCC with a lawsuit and that will be the end of it. But also where is ATT attached to this.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88

Member

Re: i just...

said by hottboiinnc4:

But also where is ATT attached to this.
But Uverse isn't cable TV. Its an "information service" like Xbox Live Video Marketplace or Apple TV or Youtube. Do you want the FCC investigating Youtube for not free money for watching a video? (whats cheaper than free? when they pay YOU money to watch).
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: i just...

VZ is using IPTV. Its not actual cable tv. only uses coax when it gets to the house. otherwise its all digital. no difference.

but price hikes are price hikes.
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Sammer

Member

Re: i just...

said by hottboiinnc4:

VZ is using IPTV. Its not actual cable tv. only uses coax when it gets to the house. otherwise its all digital. no difference.

but price hikes are price hikes.
FiOS TV uses an RF overlay (just like digital cable but over fiber) as well as IPTV (interactive services) so it is actually a hybrid. Verizon eliminated its very basic analog tier altogether so the only complaint FCC can have there is what Verizon is charging for the boxes. Verizon did change its digital tiers so that those who want more HD pay more but that obviously has nothing to do with analog.

I agree with you that price hikes are price hikes but the FCC doesn't seem to see it that way.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: i just...

true.

but then again if we didnt have assholes like LinTV wanting money for their "award winning" news stations we wouldnt see much rate hikes either.

but a lot has to do with content hikes, and the plants being upgraded to handle everything we want/need.

The plant and general upkeep is the real advantage of Dish and DirecTV have over everyone else.
AVonGauss
Premium Member
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

AVonGauss

Premium Member

Unfortunately...

Unfortunately, this is all just a continuation of politics and it seems on the surface to be ignoring one simple fact - the cost of acquiring content has also risen dramatically. No, I'm not saying I think cable or AT&T U-Verse is losing money on redistributing the content or even that their own profits margins haven't increased over the years, just that it's not as simple as saying you evil, bad, bad cable companies. You want an example of how the value of content is imbalanced - try $35-$40 for a Blu-ray disc of content that is twenty years old.

I doubt this inquiry has any deep support or teeth, but if it does and those involved are interested in solving or bettering the situation, there are several tracks it could take that might raise some eyebrows. One of them is content redistributors (Cable, Verizon, AT&T) do artificially help keep content prices inflated with the mega tiers. With more subscribers moving over to digital delivery mechanisms with digital conditional access, redistributors could break some of the mega tiers up in to smaller packages which would allow consumer dollar voting to more directly translate to the content producers thus helping the market to regulate itself naturally. In this model you would have a basic tier still, but instead of a mega expanded basic tier you would have 12-20 individual packages that could be optionally added just like HBO or Showtime. Not an a la carte channel model, but more of a compromise between the two.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88

Member

Re: Unfortunately...

said by AVonGauss:

With more subscribers moving over to digital delivery mechanisms with digital conditional access, redistributors could break some of the mega tiers up in to smaller packages which would allow consumer dollar voting to more directly translate to the content producers thus helping the market to regulate itself naturally.
But who will pay the fat guy in a suit to smoke a cuban cigar all day in his LA penthouse office?

jester121
Premium Member
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

jester121

Premium Member

This is an outrage.

Prices going up over time? You'd think there was inflation or something... all those employees better not want raises, because that would raise prices even further.

•••••••
bjbrock9
join:2002-10-28
Mcalester, OK

bjbrock9

Member

Everyone cries about regulations.

Then they cry about unfettered capitalism. Since the consumer has no backbone and thus no way to wield the power he has with his pocketbook, you have two choices. Government regulation or take what big business gives you and like it. Which is it going to be?
majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Medford, NY

majortom1029

Member

hmm

IF I am not mistaken the fcc states that if everybody can get the digital channels then they can get rid of them before the three years . So they have to offer some kind of free box to get the digital channels to everybody.

cocokiwi
@comcast.net

cocokiwi

Anon

High prices!


WHAT about the little old lady up the road whom spent $$$$ on a NEW HDTV and is now retired..SHE wants to WATCH HDTV on cable!BUT! too much!$$

Senior discount,,FOR analog YES!

for HDTV channels,forget it! I heard here they maybe putting in a Digital to Analog box/for analog TV,s so you have to pay for it,to get any programming,analog or Digital

WE! must screem LOUD and LONG to get better treatment!

MY other Screem is PAID Programming! god how I hate it!

I work nights,so when I,m home is PAID programming all OVER the channels,at least Comcast has Movies on demand!
I hardly watch anymore! go play games on my Computer!

Plays havoc with The TV Stats...

CHEERS Dennis
pbaldwin
join:2002-12-17
Dupo, IL

pbaldwin

Member

OTA is FREE

I pay for my Dish HD. That is my choice. If I could not afford it then I would go back to OTA TV... In fact I do OTA for the locals. Why do so many bitch about being able to afford a luxury like cable TV?? If you can't afford it then do without or make more money.

MrChilly
@charter.com

MrChilly

Anon

Um...it's business?

If I remember right, the companies get charged per subscriber for each channel. The way it was explained to me was "IF you take a sports channel, say it starts out at $1 a subscriber, then they sign a deal with a sports league to carry it on their channel, they don't pay for that with commercial money. That money comes from the revenue from cable and satellite companies. SO after the new sports contract, they up their rate to $3 a customer. Depending on where the channel falls (basic, or for cable companies expanded basic also) depends on which tier is going to see the hike. Multiply this scenario by the number of channels you subscribe to and there is 95% of your bill.
Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA

Ahrenl

Member

Re: Um...it's business?

If that were 95% of your bill the Co's would be out of business.

A complete guess by me would be around 30% of your bill, and that still feels a little high.
mworks
join:2006-06-13
Rose Hill, NC

1 edit

mworks to MrChilly

Member

to MrChilly
If you have a channel that is popular , like USA, the cable companies have to buy not only USA, but also MSNBC, SCIFI, etc . Companies that have big name channels know that the cable companies subscribers will want them, so they require must carry of their other channels. If your package only has one of those channels and the company NBC raises the price on them , you pay for the other channels increase in price , even if you don't get to watch them.

So your tier may go up in price for channels you don't get to watch. The plus for the cable and sat companies is they can turn in lower customer numbers per channel and get the channels cheaper, even though we pay more.

nipseyrussel
Nipsey Russell, yo
join:2002-02-22
Philadelphia, PA

nipseyrussel

Member

comcast

comcast told someone in my neighborhood that they had to upgrade to digital because of the pending national digital transition - which is just a lie

•••
niccolus
Niccolus Leader Of Midgets
Premium Member
join:2003-10-22
Long Beach, CA

niccolus

Premium Member

Idiot

Kevin Martin is an idiot. The FCC changes the number of channels a company can own and then wonders why the cost of cable and satellite is so high? I think it should be a requirement that FCC Commissioners be required to take IQ test and score above 100.

The more channels a single company operates the more they can ask for the price to wholesale the bundle of channels. Think about it. ESPN and Disney channel come bundled together since they are both owned by Disney.

On the bright side I hope that the new Chairman (or Chairwoman) will have the knowledge and foresight to break things down and give companies like Charter a fighting chance. If the operating cost were lower Charter may be able to use some of that ingenuity that Paul Allen mustered during his years at Microsoft.

We shall see.

•••

aaronwt
Premium Member
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA

aaronwt

Premium Member

What high prices?

When I had DirecTV and the same premium programming, I was paying over $100 a month. With FIOS that price is only around $65.
The FIOS prices are very low for what you get. I am very pleased with the FIOS programming prices.

Maybeman
@rr.com

Maybeman

Anon

Re: What high prices?

After a year ?
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

1 edit

Sammer

Member

Re: What high prices?

Verizon only offers bundle discounts for FiOS with a contract and prices aren't raised for subscribers under contract. For new customers and those not under contract, Verizon has already raised prices twice this year. AFAIK Verizon has also offered their existing customers substantial discounts (better prices than new customers) with contract renewal.

RRMAN
Premium Member
join:2007-04-02
Cleveland, OH

RRMAN

Premium Member

Lets waste more money

FCC: Yeah lets go ahead and waste some more money on meaningless crap. Here is and idea why don't you do something to make sure all people in the US have access to broadband. Whats that? That would be to productive? This is just another example of the FCC wasting money on nothing that will do nowhere.

winsyrstrife
River City Bounce
Premium Member
join:2002-04-30
Brooklyn, NY

winsyrstrife

Premium Member

Friends?

Karl,

I get the feeling you don't like Kevin Martin much.