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FCC Probes Google Voice Ban
Begins asking questions of AT&T, Apple...
by Karl Bode Monday 03-Aug-2009 tags: competition · fcc · business · bandwidth
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As we noted last week, AT&T and Apple's decision to block the Google Voice application from the iPhone application store is a very clear instance of anti-competitive behavior protecting SMS and long distance revenues. In response, the FCC has issued a set of three letters (1, 2, 3) to the companies asking how exactly the Google Voice application came to be banned after it was submitted some six weeks ago. AT&T has directed all questions from the press on the matter to Apple, who has yet to comment publicly on the scuff up. The questions posed include:

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•What role, if any, did AT&T play in Apple’s consideration of the Google Voice and related applications?

•Did Apple act alone, or in consultation with AT&T, in deciding to reject the Google Voice application and related applications?

•Please explain any differences between the Google Voice iPhone application and any Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) applications that Apple has approved for the iPhone.

•What other applications have been rejected for use on the iPhone and for what reasons?

Many wonder if the FCC has enough authority to do more than publicly place a little shame on both AT&T and Apple, but that may be all that's required. The response from the companies will most certainly be that certain applications are hindered or banned if they pose a threat to the network. That was the case earlier this year when the Apple and AT&T restricted 3G functionality on both the Skype and Slingbox iPhone applications.

However, while sometimes legitimate, network congestion claims have become sort of a "get out of jail free" card for anti-competitive behavior. Since carriers share no raw data on network performance, they're in effect able to claim that anything adversely impacts network performance without having to provide proof. As for AT&T, they're sticking to their position that they had nothing to do with it.

"AT&T does not manage or approve applications for the App Store,” the company said in a statement. "We have received the letter and will, of course, respond to it."

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nklb
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Huh? VOIP???

said by article :

•Please explain any differences between the Google Voice iPhone application and any Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) applications that Apple has approved for the iPhone.
Huh? Google voice is NOT VOIP. It uses data to initiate the call, but the call itself comes in as a normal phone call over the cell network.
chemaupr

join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA

Re: Huh? VOIP???

Which makes the ban even more stupid... the only issue here is the free SMS that provides,,, which I love on my BB Storm.

ptrowski
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Re: Huh? VOIP???

said by chemaupr:

Which makes the ban even more stupid... the only issue here is the free SMS that provides,,, which I love on my BB Storm.
That's most likely the reason why. SMS is a huge profit maker for AT&T and anything that eats away at it is a no no.
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CMoore2004
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Re: Huh? VOIP???

I thought iPhone users were required to have a data package anyway. Does this data add-on not include SMS?

Gbcue
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Re: Huh? VOIP???

said by CMoore2004:

I thought iPhone users were required to have a data package anyway. Does this data add-on not include SMS?
With the 3G iPhone, it does not include SMS or maybe just 200.
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iansltx

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Golden, CO
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Re: Huh? VOIP???

The old (first-gen) iPhone included 200 SMS with the $20month data package. The 3G iPhone, along with raising the price for the data package by $10, dropped the $5 worth of included SMS.

kyler13
Is your fiber grounded?

join:2006-12-12
Arnold, MD
said by CMoore2004:

I thought iPhone users were required to have a data package anyway. Does this data add-on not include SMS?
LOL - no, data plans do not cover text messaging. Wireless carriers are very careful to keep separate their cash cows.
CMoore2004
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Jonesville, MI

Re: Huh? VOIP???

My Sprint data plan includes my data, e-mail app, navigation, pic mail, and texts... I guess not all wireless carriers are created equal.

AVD
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1 edit

Re: Huh? VOIP???

said by CMoore2004:

My Sprint data plan includes my data, e-mail app, navigation, pic mail, and texts... I guess not all wireless carriers are created equal.
Not mine... all I get is data.

edit: In my old phone I got the email app too and a crappy browser.
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kyler13
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said by CMoore2004:

My Sprint data plan includes my data, e-mail app, navigation, pic mail, and texts... I guess not all wireless carriers are created equal.
Sprint doesn't work at my house despite the fact I'm smack in the middle of a metro area with supposed blanket coverage. You're right. All wireless carriers aren't created equal.
CMoore2004
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Jonesville, MI

Re: Huh? VOIP???

Ya, and AT&T won't work in my basement, Verizon won't work at my house at all, same with T-Mobile. They must all be horrible carriers because they don't work flawlessly in my home.
ViRGEdx

join:2002-10-25

1 edit
said by nklb:

said by article :

•Please explain any differences between the Google Voice iPhone application and any Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) applications that Apple has approved for the iPhone.
Huh? Google voice is NOT VOIP. It uses data to initiate the call, but the call itself comes in as a normal phone call over the cell network.
Actually it is a VoIP service. One of the service features is POTS->VoIP for long distance calling. Google Voice would allow AT&T users to use VoIP to avoid paying international rates.

nklb
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Re: Huh? VOIP???

said by ViRGEdx:

Actually it is a VoIP service. One of the service features is POTS->VoIP for long distance calling. Google Voice would allow AT&T users to use VoIP to avoid paying international rates.
The point is the VoIP part would not be coming in to the phone, it would be completely transparent to the iPhone and AT&Ts network. Same as using a calling card, many of which I am sure use VoIP at some point in their transit.
ViRGEdx

join:2002-10-25

Re: Huh? VOIP???

The point is the VoIP part would not be coming in to the phone, it would be completely transparent to the iPhone and AT&Ts network. Same as using a calling card, many of which I am sure use VoIP at some point in their transit.
That's a point, but not really the point. The point is that it has VoIP features that allow Google to reduce AT&T's revenue. Expensive international calls are more profitable than local calls, and while it's a smaller market it hurts AT&T's revenue stream all the same.

AT&T is going to do whatever they can to keep their revenue stream intact.

wifi4milez
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join:2004-08-07
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said by nklb:

said by article :

•Please explain any differences between the Google Voice iPhone application and any Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) applications that Apple has approved for the iPhone.
Huh? Google voice is NOT VOIP. It uses data to initiate the call, but the call itself comes in as a normal phone call over the cell network.
Thats not entirely correct. The Google Voice mobile app doesnt work the same way that Google Voice works. The mobile app actually places an outbound call to a gateway in NYC, which then connects you to your final destination. The 'regular' version of Google Voice works by first calling you, then bridging the two calls together. GV Mobile is an outbound service, whereas GV (desktop) is an inbound service.
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nklb
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Re: Huh? VOIP???

said by wifi4milez:

Thats not entirely correct. The Google Voice mobile app doesnt work the same way that Google Voice works. The mobile app actually places an outbound call to a gateway in NYC, which then connects you to your final destination. The 'regular' version of Google Voice works by first calling you, then bridging the two calls together. GV Mobile is an outbound service, whereas GV (desktop) is an inbound service.
I have a google voice app on my mobile phone, and I can choose for it either to initiate a call outbound from my phone or have the service call me back.

wifi4milez
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join:2004-08-07
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Re: Huh? VOIP???

said by nklb:

said by wifi4milez:

Thats not entirely correct. The Google Voice mobile app doesnt work the same way that Google Voice works. The mobile app actually places an outbound call to a gateway in NYC, which then connects you to your final destination. The 'regular' version of Google Voice works by first calling you, then bridging the two calls together. GV Mobile is an outbound service, whereas GV (desktop) is an inbound service.
I have a google voice app on my mobile phone, and I can choose for it either to initiate a call outbound from my phone or have the service call me back.
Right, but we are talking about the official Google Voice mobile app, not a 3rd party one. The official one (that was pulled) initiates an outbound call only.
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Re: Huh? VOIP???

said by wifi4milez:

said by nklb:

said by wifi4milez:

Thats not entirely correct. The Google Voice mobile app doesnt work the same way that Google Voice works. The mobile app actually places an outbound call to a gateway in NYC, which then connects you to your final destination. The 'regular' version of Google Voice works by first calling you, then bridging the two calls together. GV Mobile is an outbound service, whereas GV (desktop) is an inbound service.
I have a google voice app on my mobile phone, and I can choose for it either to initiate a call outbound from my phone or have the service call me back.
Right, but we are talking about the official Google Voice mobile app, not a 3rd party one. The official one (that was pulled) initiates an outbound call only.
AFAIK it is the same application.
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wifi4milez
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Re: Huh? VOIP???

said by ptrowski:

AFAIK it is the same application.
No, the 3rd party apps typically work by having GV call your phone back, THEN bridging the call for completion. This is the same way the desktop version of GV works. The official GV mobile app (at least for blackberries) initiates an outbound call to a gateway which then completes your call. For this reason some people are putting the gateway phone number into their "friends and family" (or whatever your carrier calls it) so that all calls are free.
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Gbcue
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Re: Huh? VOIP???

You can also call your GV number from any phone and initiate calls through your number/gateway.

The CID will show your GV number too.
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ptrowski
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said by wifi4milez:

said by ptrowski:

AFAIK it is the same application.
No, the 3rd party apps typically work by having GV call your phone back, THEN bridging the call for completion. This is the same way the desktop version of GV works. The official GV mobile app (at least for blackberries) initiates an outbound call to a gateway which then completes your call. For this reason some people are putting the gateway phone number into their "friends and family" (or whatever your carrier calls it) so that all calls are free.
Ah ok. I noticed that it was supposedly the same application that was pulled. I noticed that when I dial a number it does just like you mentioned. What I found interesting was when I send a free SMS, there is a 406 number associated with it.
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said by nklb:

said by article :

•Please explain any differences between the Google Voice iPhone application and any Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) applications that Apple has approved for the iPhone.
Huh? Google voice is NOT VOIP. It uses data to initiate the call, but the call itself comes in as a normal phone call over the cell network.
Google voice is NOT WIRELESS DATA.

It conducts physical calls through a gateway.
SMS might use data though.
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nklb
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Re: Huh? VOIP???

said by Gbcue:

Google voice is NOT WIRELESS DATA.

It conducts physical calls through a gateway.
SMS might use data though.
By default it uses a tiny amount of data to tell the service to call your phone to initiate the call. Though it can be configured to use your phone to dial out and use literally no data.

Are any of these people criticizing my post actually using this service? I know I am, and have been since it was grand central.

Gbcue
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Re: Huh? VOIP???

said by nklb:

said by Gbcue:

Google voice is NOT WIRELESS DATA.

It conducts physical calls through a gateway.
SMS might use data though.
By default it uses a tiny amount of data to tell the service to call your phone to initiate the call. Though it can be configured to use your phone to dial out and use literally no data.

Are any of these people criticizing my post actually using this service? I know I am, and have been since it was grand central.
The blackberry app dials out right away when I initiate a call, using no data.
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cameronsfx

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Google CEO Eric Schmidt resigns from Apple Board CNBC Reported today.

The FCC and SEC has already begun an investigation into Apple's App Store as well.

Gbcue
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Re: Huh? VOIP???

said by cameronsfx:

Google CEO Eric Schmidt resigns from Apple Board CNBC Reported today.

The FCC and SEC has already begun an investigation into Apple's App Store as well.
Google probably wants to distance themselves away from this and play innocent.
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chaser6071

@comcast.net

THis is Great

The new head of the FCC is an investor in Internet start-ups and I would guess a proponent of net neutrality! Which with these going ons (blocking Skype, Sling, Google Voice and other apps) shows a real need to regulate the wireless industry! Surprisingly, it was never regulated before!

When I use Internet the experience must be the same whatever the device!
theeinstein
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Fernandina Beach, FL

Re: THis is Great

Yea... They are are pretty disgusting!... FCC is asleep at the wheel or better yet getting some under the table!!

Goober
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said by chaser6071 :

The new head of the FCC is an investor in Internet start-ups and I would guess a proponent of net neutrality! Which with these going ons (blocking Skype, Sling, Google Voice and other apps) shows a real need to regulate the wireless industry! Surprisingly, it was never regulated before!

When I use Internet the experience must be the same whatever the device!
OT: I don't think I've used that many exclamation points in a whole year of writing!

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2 Words

"Contractual Obligation"

A similar thing has happened with 2Wire wherein their mRG's are purposefully flashed with software that blocks all the features that make the brand worthwhile. For this you can thank Yahoo! and a few other software vendors.
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SyNiSt3r

join:2007-04-26
Morristown, TN

Great

My hope is that GV will sooner or later be allowed on the iphone. I hope the Fcc finds this is ATTs doings and they bust their a$$es. They are scared they might lose a dollar or two if GV is on the iphone.
ashman454

join:2004-03-10
Manassas, VA

Question

I know people love google and that people want the google voice app on there iphone, but can someone tell me why a store (such as the iphone app store) is required to sell or post that app in there app store? I know people will probably come out drooling and rabid with responses to this question, but think about it. It is a legit question. Out of all the stores out there you can think of, can you think of one that is forced to sell anything it doesn't want to. Some may sell items or brands they really don't want to, but they still do it by choice. Why should anyone be forced to sell a service, program or application that they don't want to? Does anyone have an INTELLIGENT answer to that?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I am just asking a legit question here.

See 57 replies to this post

nonegiven

@rr.com

fcc vs apple

Fcc is not forcing apple/att to sell anything the GV app is free.

See 15 replies to this post

gigahurtz
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Palm Coast, FL

Apple/AT&T are burying themselves with this one..

While many people aren't familiar with what Google Voice has to offer, I firmly believe that this will affect Apple/AT&T (particularly AT&T) as I am extremely pissed off about this one.

First of all, Google Voice uses a gateway and it's NOT VoIP.

Second, there are several SMS apps that have been approved through the App Store. There is no justification in banning Google but not the other apps. They cannot use the excuse of "well this is Google and it's all about branding".

AT&T/Apple will lose this battle and I cannot wait.
hottboiinnc
ME

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Cleveland, OH

Re: Apple/AT&T are burying themselves with this one..

LoL....lose to who?

The FCC is not a court and chances are does NOT have the right to say what goes on in any product.

There is no laws that are going to protect Google on this.
SuperWISP

join:2007-04-17
Laramie, WY

1 edit

The FCC has no business becoming involved in this issue.

It does not seem to me that the FCC’s enabling legislation allows it to regulate computing platforms, but if it were determined that it did, it would be particularly scary because of where it could lead.

Think about it. The manufacturers of computer gaming consoles (all of which now telecommunicate, as the iPhone does) have, to date, been able to control which software products were available for their platforms, and have used this control to reduce the initial cost of the console and make up the money via the revenue stream from the software. If the FCC could regulate which apps Apple allows onto the iPhone, it could also regulate which games (especially networked games) console makers allowed onto their platforms and could scuttle this business model, which consumers seem to like. In fact, the FCC could begin to regulate all aspects of the game console business, including what games could be sold.

Come to think of it, all computers nowadays come equipped to telecommunicate, too (via Ethernet and usually Wi-Fi). So, once the camel’s nose was in the tent, these platforms would be subject to regulation as well. Operating system manufacturers and computer manufacturers would have to manage their platforms as the FCC saw fit.

Do we want to open this can of worms merely because a few iPhone users — who bought the product with full knowledge that it was a closed platform — are now experiencing buyer’s remorse? Should we let monopolist Google (which seems to be pulling the strings here) control the FCC like a puppet? Do we want the government regulating what software we can run, and where? What will come next: censorship of video games that the FCC finds indecent?

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