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FCC Pushes $10 Broadband Plan Most Won't Qualify For
Agency Takes Comcast's PR Idea, Calls it a Policy
by Karl Bode 02:39PM Wednesday Nov 09 2011
To get their acquisition of NBC approved, Comcast proposed a condition requiring they offer $10 1.5 Mbps broadband to low income homes. Comcast proposed this condition because once potential applicants jump through a number of hoops, very few low income families actually qualify for service. Applicants have to qualify for the National School Lunch Program, can't owe Comcast money, can't currently have Comcast service, and can't have had Comcast service in the last ninety days. It has been a PR bounty for Comcast, which has launched the program in several cities to great political fanfare.

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Except in reality, a Comcast insider tells me most low income homes who have applied get rejected, because if they don't already have at least basic cable -- they owe Comcast money or a cable box for service they used to have (shockingly, poor households tend to have outstanding debt, quite often to their cable company).

Comcast also only has to offer the deal for three years as per their merger condition, so while this might be a worthwhile program for a scattered few -- it's by and large another showmanship-over-substance effort for the telecom industry.

Cue the FCC, who seems to really enjoy just those sort of efforts, having recently unveiled network neutrality rules that don't really protect neutrality, and a "Connect to Compete" plan that doesn't really address competition or actually connect anyone to anything. At a press event alongside former FCC boss turned cable lobbyist Michael Powell, the FCC today announced they'll be tackling the digital divide by having additional cable companies follow Comcast's lead in offering $10 broadband few low-income homes can actually get.

This is an FCC, you'll recall, that has been completely unwilling to tackle the one issue that actually leads to high prices for these services: a lack of real market competition. One difference from the original Comcast plan, according to the New York Times, is that ISPs will only be doing it for two years instead of the three years Comcast agreed to:
quote:
For those households, the $9.99 monthly price will apply only for a two-year period. The price is akin to an on-ramp for new customers, with the hope being that they will decide to pay more for access once they have had it for a while. The F.C.C. said the initiative would begin in the spring and reach all parts of the country in September 2012. It is similar in some ways to Adoption Plus, a partnership that was proposed two years ago, but never carried out, by the National Cable & Telecommunications Association, a cable trade group.
As we noted back in 2009 when "Adoption Plus" was unveiled, the campaign was little more than a glorified ad campaign for cable service. This effort appears only marginally more substantive, with the primary goal being to get a little positive PR for the cable industry, score the FCC some political points, and upsell customers on higher-price cable packages they can't actually afford. Since this appears to be a brain child of the cable industry's chief lobbying organization (the NCTA) dressed up as an FCC policy, Cox, Time Warner Cable and Cablevision will be participating -- while AT&T and Verizon will not.

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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27

Vertical Integration...

says Jack!

(queue 30 Rock fans...)
--
Splat

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Pathetic

This option should be available to everyone. People who can afford to drop any amount of money on broadband and computers to use it shouldn't be viewed as "poor."
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.

TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3

1 recommendation

Re: Pathetic

have to agree with ya. So called poor are not sporting big tv's in their homes along with having cable and computers. people in this day and age have no idea what poor really is.

MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Re: Pathetic

You can get a really cheap netbook these days for $200 like the
super-slim Asus Eee PC X101

With almost all jobs only accepting resumes online and more and more day to day business moving to the internet, it's becoming a neccesity and a really good tool to learn and this is for household that have children, I'm assuming that it is intended to help those poor children who are poor due to no fault of their own.

So I think it's perfectly reasonable that a poor person could afford a cheap netbook, or even get one as a gift or have one given to them via a charity and not be able to afford $50 a month for a cable modem but $10 makes it more affordable.

It's just sad that this so called move to help the poor is so pathetic.
It's really easy to sit and judge the poor when your well off.
and just so you know, I'm not the poor, I'm solidly middle class
and not looking for a handout myself. I just think the poor deserve any help we can give those who want to help themselves.
25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH
And you get to deem that why? the Feds decide what is considered poor not anyone else. They've been doing it for years. But as far as Comcast says with a cable box; if you have one or the fastest HSI package available; you shouldn't get the free package. But if you fall into the category of what the feds say; you should get the $10 per month HSI.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Pathetic

said by 25139889:

And you get to deem that why?

Being poor implies that you're having a hard time paying for things you need in order to survive. If you can pay for things like food, clothing, rent, health care and what not, and still have money left over for $10 a month for broadband, as well as what it costs to own a computer or other device that uses it then you are not poor.

When did being able to afford a marginal amount of money for luxuries become part of the definition of "poor?" If that's what the government is defining "poor" as then, once again, it gets it wrong.
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.

coldmoon
Premium
join:2002-02-04
Broadway, NC
Reviews:
·Windstream

1 recommendation

Re: Pathetic

quote:
When did being able to afford a marginal amount of money for luxuries become part of the definition of "poor?" If that's what the government is defining "poor" as then, once again, it gets it wrong.
Internet access is no longer a luxury and ranks appropriately with other utility services as it is becoming ever more essential for our prosperity as individuals AND as a nation. Get over the luxury nonsense and start looking up from the usual talking points...
--
Returnil - 21st Century body armor for your PC

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Pathetic

said by coldmoon:

Internet access is no longer a luxury and ranks appropriately with other utility services as it is becoming ever more essential for our prosperity as individuals AND as a nation. Get over the luxury nonsense and start looking up from the usual talking points...

If it is such a necessity then everyone should be able to get it for $10 a month.
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.

coldmoon
Premium
join:2002-02-04
Broadway, NC
Reviews:
·Windstream

1 recommendation

Re: Pathetic

said by pnh102:

said by coldmoon:

Internet access is no longer a luxury and ranks appropriately with other utility services as it is becoming ever more essential for our prosperity as individuals AND as a nation. Get over the luxury nonsense and start looking up from the usual talking points...

If it is such a necessity then everyone should be able to get it for $10 a month.

No argument there and one way to get that price break would be to break up the creation/delivery scam, dumb down the pipes, and let the ISPs fight for customers based on price and service quality. We should invest in a national FTTH program as we did with the roadways under Eisenhower then reap the rewards of universal broadband access...
--
Returnil - 21st Century body armor for your PC

zoom314

join:2005-11-21
Yermo, CA
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
·Time Warner Cable

2 recommendations

$10 a month? That would be nice, As to being poor what would You know? Me I know plenty, I'm poor, disabled and oh I have no debt, But then I get only SSI, nothing else. My DSL is $22.83 a month, What I'd like to do would be to rent a place near civilization w/o any steps and a place that allows pets, I have a cat and an empty aquarium, but I can't as the least expensive is $599 and they don't allow pets, I'd have to be a senior whose at least 55 and I'm only 51.5 now(I'm afraid She'd go outside and get run over anywhere where I can't keep Her inside where It's safe, She follows Me everywhere in the place I do rent thanks to a sympathetic owner), So My only other hope is getting a mortgage and buying a house for $60,000 or less. Oh and My PC? I slowly built that and the browser has a spell checker added to It as I'm disabled, I have a GED(My parents didn't believe in a college education, they were born in 1918 and 1922, both are dead now), just cause I can type a bit does not mean I can work, being disabled wasn't a choice I wanted, It was thrust on Me in 2003. I won't go into how I'm disabled, unless You want Me to bore Ya to death...

So Yeah I know what being poor is like, I took care of My Mom until She died in 1998, We shared expenses, later I helped My dying Brother for as long as I could.

realitycheck

@comcast.net
Internet is a luxury not a need.. hell the ability to own a vehicle is still considered a luxury and not a need.

coldmoon
Premium
join:2002-02-04
Broadway, NC
Reviews:
·Windstream

Re: Pathetic

said by realitycheck :

Internet is a luxury not a need.. hell the ability to own a vehicle is still considered a luxury and not a need.

For the former - perhaps in 1999 you would be correct. As it is now an essential communications tool for both consumers and businesses, your assertion holds little water.

As for the latter - only if you live in Europe where there is ubiquitous public transportation available; even in rural areas, then you might have a seed for a larger discussion. Here in the US, the car is essential for everything unless you live in the middle of a large city like New York or Chicago. Get outside the cities, even in the suburbs, having access to a car or owning one becomes essential for survival.
--
Returnil - 21st Century body armor for your PC

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: Pathetic

said by coldmoon:

Get outside the cities, even in the suburbs, having access to a car or owning one becomes essential for survival.

They have transit in the sleepy bedroom community of Roseville, California.

I've lived on VTA for rides since some idiot took out my car in a rear-end collision a few years back. It wasn't until I became my mother's caretaker that I got access to a car again.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

coldmoon
Premium
join:2002-02-04
Broadway, NC
Reviews:
·Windstream

Re: Pathetic

said by NormanS:

said by coldmoon:

Get outside the cities, even in the suburbs, having access to a car or owning one becomes essential for survival.

They have transit in the sleepy bedroom community of Roseville, California.

I've lived on VTA for rides since some idiot took out my car in a rear-end collision a few years back. It wasn't until I became my mother's caretaker that I got access to a car again.

California is different from the rest of the nation, especially if you live in the south and/or mid-west. Even in NY it is the same once you get north of the major metropolitan areas and away from the few rail services available.

If you don't have a vehicle, your only recourse is to live in a major city...
--
Returnil - 21st Century body armor for your PC

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: Pathetic

said by coldmoon:

California is different from the rest of the nation, especially if you live in the south and/or mid-west. Even in NY it is the same once you get north of the major metropolitan areas and away from the few rail services available.

If you don't have a vehicle, your only recourse is to live in a major city...

There are three major, and two minor urban regions in California. Everything else is as rural as any other part of the U.S.

Living outside of an urban area can be almost as costly as living in one. I have done both.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Chester2

join:2000-10-17
Menlo Park, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast Business..
You need to have a child to qualify for this service.

I don't consider myself poor but I can't afford to have a child.

Why should I have to subsidize people who can afford children?
--
Craig
»www.CraigHarris.org My BLOG on Motorcycles and Computer Stuff.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Pathetic

said by Chester2:

You need to have a child to qualify for this service.

I don't consider myself poor but I can't afford to have a child.

Why should I have to subsidize people who can afford children?

Good point.
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.
xrobertcmx
Premium
join:2001-06-18
Sterling, VA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
Seriously? A lot of poor folks need internet these days. I have family with children in school and for some reason the schools which are by the way bankrupt, are handing out laptops for the students. Grades, attendance, homework, everything are posted on blackboard.
The $9.99 price point would help a great deal, but I doubt they will qualify.
To make things more fun, as someone here pointed out, almost all jobs require online applications.
--
Retaking our country one election at a time.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Pathetic

said by xrobertcmx:

The $9.99 price point would help a great deal, but I doubt they will qualify.

Which is why Comcast should have been forced to offer this option to everyone. As always, we have another situation where the government rubber stamps a merger while attaching a bunch of worthless feel-good gimmicks to it to make it look good. This is no different that AT&T's seemingly-impossible-to-get $10 a month naked DSL.
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.

yme79

@myvzw.com
said by pnh102:

said by 25139889:

And you get to deem that why?

Being poor implies that you're having a hard time paying for things you need in order to survive. If you can pay for things like food, clothing, rent, health care and what not, and still have money left over for $10 a month for broadband, as well as what it costs to own a computer or other device that uses it then you are not poor.

When did being able to afford a marginal amount of money for luxuries become part of the definition of "poor?" If that's what the government is defining "poor" as then, once again, it gets it wrong.

Well I'm poor but after I pay all my bills I only have like $120 for the whole month. Now being poor is managed as long as as you have a budget and. Stick to it! Yes I have unlimited broadband on my smartphone. But I think the government is just saying that in this day and age broadband internet access has become almost a necessity and that everyone rich poor or " middle. Class " needs access. To it. Thats all.

Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA
kudos:2
said by pnh102:

said by 25139889:

And you get to deem that why?

...If you can pay for things like food, clothing, rent, health care and what not, and still have money left over for $10 a month for broadband, as well as what it costs to own a computer or other device that uses it then you are not poor...

Really? Hmmm internet access is a must have these days. Just like water and power. Kids need internet access for school, adults need it for paying bills online, job search etc. You need to include internet access in that list of yours.
--
I speak for myself, not my employer.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Pathetic

said by Anonymous:

said by pnh102:

said by 25139889:

And you get to deem that why?

...If you can pay for things like food, clothing, rent, health care and what not, and still have money left over for $10 a month for broadband, as well as what it costs to own a computer or other device that uses it then you are not poor...

Really? Hmmm internet access is a must have these days. Just like water and power. Kids need internet access for school, adults need it for paying bills online, job search etc. You need to include internet access in that list of yours.

Yes. Really. If you can afford all these things, you are not poor. You want to see poor? Go look at a homeless shelter. Go look at people who live out on the streets begging for food. That's poverty. Most "poor" people in the USA have some kind of housing, access to cable TV, some kind of taxpayer-financed health care, taxpayer-financed food, taxpayer-financed or subsidized heating, and other "freebies." That is not poverty.
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.

Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA
kudos:2

Re: Pathetic

What is it with conservatives and hating the poor? You don't get to say who's poor and who's not. The government does that. For poor people who can afford it that is also the only form of entertainment they have. So I say they deserve it.
--
I speak for myself, not my employer.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Pathetic

said by Anonymous:

What is it with conservatives and hating the poor? You don't get to say who's poor and who's not. The government does that. For poor people who can afford it that is also the only form of entertainment they have. So I say they deserve it.

I have every right in the world to pass judgement on and criticize people who benefit from my hard work. And I will.

And since when is it the government's job to provide people with entertainment? Poor people outside of the USA would love to be "poor" in this country.
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.

Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA
kudos:2

Re: Pathetic

Go for it! There is nothing you can do other than whine about it.
--
I speak for myself, not my employer.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Pathetic

said by Anonymous:

Go for it! There is nothing you can do other than whine about it.

Then why do you care?
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
said by 25139889:

And you get to deem that why? the Feds decide what is considered poor not anyone else. They've been doing it for years.

Because they have been handing out charity for years; and those as hand out the money get to decide who qualifies for getting it.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
said by pnh102:

People who can afford to drop any amount of money on broadband and computers to use it shouldn't be viewed as "poor."

Depending on the computer. What if it was an old one that someone donated or given away?

Yes, people probably can't afford a "new" computer.. but I usually find old P2-P4's at the rescue mission for $10. That, plus a "found on the curb" CRT monitor, keyboard, and mouse.. It's technically "a computer".
--
Bresnan 30M/5M
MyWS[i7-870@4.1G,16G RAM,2x1T HDDs,Win7]
WifeWS[A64@2G,2G RAM,120G HDD,Win7]
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CurGeorge8

join:2005-05-02
South Park, PA

1 recommendation

There is so much that jumps out at me...

I can't believe that the FCC would approve this as a condition to the NBC merg........ oh wait. The FCC. Ok, totally makes sense.

I can certainly understand not qualifying for the service if you owe Comcast money. I would not choose to do business again with someone who stuck me with bad debt and did not pay it off.

But, having to qualify for the school lunch program and not having any Comcast service as a condition? What if you don't have any children in the public school system? Is there an equivalent metric for qualification for the elderly and otherwise childless? And, while it's not advertised, you can usually get basic cable with around 20 channels for $10-15/month. What is the logic there? If you can afford $15 a month for TV, you can afford $50 for their basic internet plan?

The premise made that this condition is essentially unobtainable certainly seems logical. This gives me very little hope towards the AT&T-mobile merger currently making its way through anti-trust procedures.

wings10
I Am Legend
Premium
join:2004-06-09
South Elgin, IL

1 recommendation

Since when is Broadband important for the "low Income"

If your poor what are you doing with a computer or other devise needed to get on the web?

How about feed your children?
thedragonmas

join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
kudos:1

2 recommendations

Re: Since when is Broadband important for the "low Income&q

disabled, ssi, $674.00 internet to keep me from going INSANE, $30 (3Mbps).

i would love to have $10 internet, not gonna happen because i "get to much" they should try it. and yeah yeah internets not a priority other than its my only social interaction and with out it i would probably go nuts...

i do agree however, even on my income i have "never" been late or missed a bill, ever. if it wasnt for that stupid digital transition a few years back i wouldnt have basic cable tv, id have an antenna, but nooo, thanks to that crap id need an outdoor mast mount antenna. oi!

im getting off topic, my bad. for those of us that are disabled and cant get out, the internet can sadly turn in to our lives, our only social interactions, while you normal people see it as a play thing for entertainment, some of us (me) see it as our only connection to the outside world.

zoom314

join:2005-11-21
Yermo, CA
Reviews:
·DSL EXTREME
·Time Warner Cable

Re: Since when is Broadband important for the "low Income&q

said by thedragonmas:

disabled, SSI, $674.00 internet to keep me from going INSANE, $30 (3Mbps).

I would love to have $10 internet, not gonna happen because I "get to much" they should try it. and yeah yeah internets not a priority other than its my only social interaction and with out it i would probably go nuts...

I do agree however, even on my income i have "never" been late or missed a bill, ever. if it wasn't for that stupid digital transition a few years back i wouldn't have basic cable tv, id have an antenna, but nooo, thanks to that crap id need an outdoor mast mount antenna. oi!

I'm getting off topic, my bad. for those of us that are disabled and cant get out, the internet can sadly turn in to our lives, our only social interactions, while you normal people see it as a play thing for entertainment, some of us (me) see it as our only connection to the outside world.

Yeah, I hear Ya, being isolated is no fun, but It is nice have some peace and quiet sometimes, It would save Me maybe $12.88 a month, maybe, but I have no children either, rats, 1.5M out here would cost Me $32.83 a month, but then so would 3.0M DSL, If the dry loop can still do It that is, I'm in Verizon territory.

elios

join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO
gift maybe? i dont know maybe they have family thats willing to give one time gifts but not pay all there bills
as the other have said SSI or some other disability income
PCs are cheap very very cheap if you build your own
SSI i know gives you back pay from when you applied for it
i know people that have used that to get a decent PC
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

Incredible

A "low income" (welfare) broadband connection *SHOULD* have restrictions and caveats.

Where are these "high prices that result from a lack of real market competition?"
Our local broadband rates have dropped 50% from a decade ago, while cost per bit is 1% of what it was when DSL first deployed.

Why should you be able to obtain service if you haven't paid your bills?
What's next, do we simply waive electric, gas, water/sewer and trash charges too?

elios

join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO

1 recommendation

Re: Incredible

no but gas power and water are HEAVILY regulated so they cant screw people over to much

ISPs should be held to the same as any other utility and yes that is what they are now
at one point gas/water/power a luxury too
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

Re: Incredible

said by elios:

no but gas power and water are HEAVILY regulated so they cant screw people over to much

ISPs should be held to the same as any other utility and yes that is what they are now
at one point gas/water/power a luxury too

Huh?
How does an ISP "screw people over to[sic] much"?

For that matter, how does a gas, water, or electric utility "screw" their customers?

CableConvert
Premium
join:2003-12-05
Atlanta, GA

WHY???

Why do we allow these morons to continue to do this crap. Is the FCC so far removed from the reality that is what most of us see and live??? Do they think we are so stupid as not to know they screw us at every turn??? I guess we are the 99% (unless you want $10 internet...THEN you are the 1%...if that)
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

1.5?

Most entry level cablemodem service was originally provisioned at 3mbits. only the docsis 1.0 (early generations) were single and/or duplex around at 3+ megabits unless the signal was not amplified & conditioned properly over long distances. It almost seems a waste of a cablemodem to provision less than 10 megabits. Comcast can do alot better and qualify more people at or above the poverty level.

i1me2ao
Premium
join:2001-03-03
TEXAS

1 recommendation

more heartless

people on this site than i assumed. amazingly how everyone can easily decide what poor people should have and not have. but everyone goes ballistic if government decided you only needed one car and 200 sqft per person per residence ( regardless ).

i was broke as hell and had a computer and dial up back in the day. that was our entertainment and enjoyment.
--
ummh union bad, ummh union bad, please tell me what else to regurgitate

••••

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

How about getting internet to those

Who CAN'T get it before offering it to those who CHOOSE not to get it for whatever reason. I know plenty of people that would gladly pay for internet( A LOT more than $10 a month ) if it was only offered. It seems to me a customer that is only getting your product because it's $10 a month is less profitable than one willing to pay you $50 a month if you only offered it to them.

kara

@comcast.net

only buy what you can afford

If you poor then pay off bills like what really needed food rent electric ect internet cable tv is not needed for living So pay what you can afford. Same goes for all those that pay out the nose for services they can't afford no matter what income you have or stop bitching about it.

ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN

Ministry of Communications

They'll never learn will they. They already took our TV away because of the ATSC transition. I have confidence they'll screw anything else up they even remotely put their mind to.

Selenia
I love Debian
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2

At least TWC is for real

Around here, if you can prove you're on Social Security or welfare, TWC will knock a considerable amount off the monthly charges. I knew a few who knew of and got this. It's not as cheap as the Comcast offer, but $19.95 phone service and $19.95 internet, coupled with $5 basic cable or $15 standard tier is no slouch, considering TWC's rates. Not sure if this is national, but I have seen people get it here in MA(TWC Albany), though this was awhile go. It had been offered a good amount of time, already. Who knows, maybe the state pays part of it, but it would be interesting to find out, if anyone has more info!
--
A fool thinks they know everything.

A wise person knows enough to know they couldn't possibly know everything.

There are zealots for every OS, like every religion. They do not represent the majority of users for either.

linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State

Hah!

It doesn't help the poor and it doesn't reach most of rural America. It is still a citi-fied service.
--
Mac: No windows, No Gates, Apple inside