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FCC Releases 700Mhz Auction Bidder List
Chevron?
by Karl Bode 06:32PM Wednesday Dec 19 2007
The FCC yesterday released a list (pdf) of the companies who'll be participating in next year's 700Mhz spectrum auction. 266 applications were received, but only 96 have been "accepted for filing," meaning that companies such as Alltel, AT&T and Verizon still have to dot a few i's and cross a few t's. While most of the companies aren't a surprise -- there are a few interesting bidders such as Chevron and the International House of Pancakes (we're kidding about one of those). Charter owner Paul Allen is also on the list bidding under the name Vulcan Spectrum LLC.

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FFH5
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More deatils on the bidders

The accepted for filing list:
»hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/a ··· 30A2.pdf
Includes Google.

The list of companies with incomplete applications:
»hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/a ··· 30A3.pdf
Includes AT&T, "Cellco Partnership d/b/a Verizon Wireless", Cox, "CSC Spectrum Holdings aka Cablevision", Cincinnati Bell Wireless.

Here is a non-PDF version of ALL the bidders:
»thirdpipe.com/2007/12/19/700mhz- ··· rs-list/

To summarize, here are the companies most have heard of that are bidding:
Google (GOOG) Airwaves Inc.
Towerstream (TWER)
Vulcan Spectrum, apparently a company connected with investor Paul Allen.
Alltel, which earlier this year was taken private by TPG and Goldman Sachs.
AT&T (T) Mobility Spectrum
CenturyTel (CTL) Broadband Wireless
Chevron (CHV) (Why Chevron is bidding I have no idea.)
Cincinnati Bell (CBB) Wireless
Cox Wireless (Which I assume is connected to Cox Cable)
Iowa Telecommunications Services (IWA)
MetroPCS (PCS) 700 MHz LLC
Qualcomm (QCOM)
Cablevision (CVC), bidding as CSC Spectrum Holdings
Verizon Wireless (VZ, VOD), bidding as Cellco Partnership
Advance/Newhouse, controlled by the Newhouse family, owners of various publishing and cable assets.

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KrK
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Re: More deatils on the bidders

LOL I love the way the big boys try to hide behind a shell company. Why? Do they think it fools someone? More likely it's so that rules and regulations won't affect the parent, only the shell company.

batterup
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Re: More deatils on the bidders

said by KrK:

LOL I love the way the big boys try to hide behind a shell company. Why? Do they think it fools someone? More likely it's so that rules and regulations won't affect the parent, only the shell company.
If you are talking about
quote:
Verizon Wireless (VZ, VOD), bidding as Cellco Partnership
Verizon Communications owns 55% of the company; Vodafone owns 45%. of Cellco Partnership dba Verizon Wireless.

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Re: More deatils on the bidders

said by batterup:

said by KrK:

LOL I love the way the big boys try to hide behind a shell company. Why? Do they think it fools someone? More likely it's so that rules and regulations won't affect the parent, only the shell company.
If you are talking about
quote:
Verizon Wireless (VZ, VOD), bidding as Cellco Partnership
Verizon Communications owns 55% of the company; Vodafone owns 45%. of Cellco Partnership dba Verizon Wireless.
Verizon has operated under the Cellco Partnership alias since before Vodafone's involvement, it dates back to the Bell Atlantic/NYNEX Mobile properties.

No hiding there, it has been like that for at least 10 years already.
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said by KrK:

LOL I love the way the big boys try to hide behind a shell company. Why? Do they think it fools someone? More likely it's so that rules and regulations won't affect the parent, only the shell company.
???

It doesn't say Shell, it says Chevron

batterup
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Re: More deatils on the bidders

said by Tsume:


It doesn't say Shell, it says Chevron
Go to your room and double-click for what the internet was made for.

KrK
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LOL

supergirl

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Pensacola, FL
$20 billion auction. Google could sell a few shares and buy it all. Google could then tell everyone that wants to charge them, like AT&T, "Ha, Ha, we own all that wireless spectrum now. By the way, you want to 'borrow' some? How about a $1 million a day?"

If Google really wants to smash cell cos, they should buy it all.

What the hell does the IHOP want with it? Wireless pancakes?
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fdsafas

@comcast.net

Re: More deatils on the bidders

Google won't be buying it. They will only bid up to 4.5 billion and then drop out (its expected to sell for up to 10 billion). They lobbied long ago to make this an open network no matter who wins, and the deal was as long as its 4.5 billion, then it will be open. Thats what they want, then they can get their software on the phones that are sold, or at least give the customer the choice. Back when this took place everyone thought 4.5 would be alot, the value has gone up dramatically. Google was pretty smart about it, and they won't have to spend billions developing themselves as a network carrier, they don't want to win it, they just want it open.

ropeguru
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1 edit
said by supergirl:

What the hell does the IHOP want with it? Wireless pancakes?
Read a little closer or look at the actual list:

there are a few interesting bidders such as Chevron and the International House of Pancakes (we're kidding about one of those)
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Corehhi

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CVX Chevron has more money then they know what to do with right now. They're buying back 10 billion in stock and still have piles of cash. I'm long CVX for you stock people, I'm interested in where they are going with this. These guys can drop billions without a thought.

morbo
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Re: More deatils on the bidders

my concern is do they know what they are doing? sure they can afford it (like any of the oil companies, for the past several years), but when a company moves away from their core business I wonder about their expertise in the new area...
LowRider

join:2006-06-23
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Lamin terms on 700Mhz

All i know is that its a frequency in the 700mhz, but what is the significance's about it? Whats it going to do, what can you do with it? In simple terms please

mitchell

join:2002-06-21
Darlington, SC

Re: Lamin terms on 700Mhz

Go here for more info »www.psst.org and here »psst.org/network.jsp

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4 edits
said by LowRider:

All i know is that its a frequency in the 700mhz, but what is the significance's about it? Whats it going to do, what can you do with it? In simple terms please
It's PRIME radio spectrum-and you get the exclusive use of it for ten years over the entire country. It can be used for cellular, Internet, video, CD quality audio, two way radio, voice or any combination thereof. Being 700 mHz it has better propogation then other cellular bands (1800 and 1900 mHz) and much better building penetration then both these bands as well.

batterup
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said by LowRider:

All i know is that its a frequency in the 700mhz, but what is the significance's about it? Whats it going to do, what can you do with it? In simple terms please
It is a low frequency and penetrates objects better, like the human skull.

LOLMAN

@comcast.net

Re: Lamin terms on 700Mhz

LOL :-d

KCrimson
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4 edits
NM - had it wrong.

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Re: Lamin terms on 700Mhz

said by KCrimson:

High.. low... its all a matter of relative values in comparison to a standard. If you're talking the VLF/LF/HF/VHF/UHF/Microwave/StarTrekSubSpace scale, then 700 Mhz fits in the upper regions of the UHF or lower regions of the microwave band - a relatively HIGH frequency/low wavelength.
The higher the frequency, the greater the penetrating ability.
That is why they use microwave ovens, not shortwave (HF) ovens.

Uhh, upside down there.

Increase in frequency = an increase in path loss/attenuation.

Why do you think that you can hear AM radio stations from hundreds of miles away at night, but you can't get adequate WiFi coverage throughout your own house.

The same line-of-sight principle that requires you to have a clean, clear, view to the DirecTV and Dish Network satellites, but a single tree limb can wipe out your reception entirely.

Microwave ovens operate on the principle that their 2450MHz frequency of operation is very close to one of the many resonant frequencies of water, and the water molecules rubbing together at a rate of 2450MHz creates lots of friction, thus heating, thus cooking.

Another reason that VHF-TV stations provide adequate coverage at less than 320,000 watts, but the same UHF-TV stations(in the 700MHz range), often operate much closer to 5,000,000 watts for equivalent coverage.

It might be time to go back and re-take the RF101 course.
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KCrimson
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Re: Lamin terms on 700Mhz

Yup, I've been going over this in my mind for the past 20 minutes - you're right. I've not re-thought radio physics in many a moon. But why did the cell phone companies clamor for higher frequencies then, when eveyone was looking for better penetration in steel towers?

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Re: Lamin terms on 700Mhz

said by KCrimson:

Yup, I've been going over this in my mind for the past 20 minutes - you're right. I've not re-thought radio physics in many a moon. But why did the cell phone companies clamor for higher frequencies then, when eveyone was looking for better penetration in steel towers?
Higher frequencies don't propagate as far, so for a given bandwidth, they can re-use the same frequencies at much closer intervals.

If the cell company only has 25MHz of spectrum to deal with, they bet their system capacity on how many times they can reuse the same channel over and over in a given area.

Lower frequencies might have meant they could re-use the same channel once over every 10 cell sites, higher frequencies might result in them being able to re-use the same channel once every 3 cell sites, plus the cell site coverage is reduced from 10 mile spacing down to 2.5 mile spacing.

Bandwidth costs cell companies Billions of Dollars, and the more often you can re-use the same channel over a given area is like adding money to the bank.

Higher frequencies, more towers, shorter towers, = much higher system capacity.

That is assuming that they can get 4-6x more towers approved and built without aggravating the NIMBY crowd.
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KCrimson
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1 edit

Re: Lamin terms on 700Mhz

When you said higher freq. don't propagate as far, isn't it actually that they don't bend with the earth - they go straight until they're absorbed in the atmosphere or earth? IOW, wouldn't they propagate as well as lower frequencies, given line-of-site?

Also: I'm trying to recall the way I was originally taught this, and its still not fitting the fact. See if you were taught this and can clue me in what I'm missing:

When you think at the atomic level, isn't it SHORTER wavelengths are necessary to "fit" through the particles, thus allowing for better penetration??? This would imply higher frequencies (freq and wavelength are inverse) and is causing my frustration in reassembling my understanding of RF theory.

batterup
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Re: Lamin terms on 700Mhz

The 700Mhz was owned by broadcast TV so cell phones had to use higher frequencies. Broadcast TV is going digital and that opens up the very desirable 700Mhz to the highest bidder.

Come on Google spend billions of the company owners money and then give the pipe away. If I owned Google I would gladly sacrifice my children's education, medical care and standard of living so guys that live in their mother's basement can get cheep porn.

KCrimson
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Re: Lamin terms on 700Mhz

Wasn't part of the band (like many others) taken away from amateur radio operators? I used to watch amateur TV operators (just a few years ago) operating on frequencies that I believe might fall within that band. I would receive them by using my regular UHF rooftop antenna, but set a CATV-ready TV to its CATV channel setting, and tune somewhere around CATV channel 60 or 61. The repeator they were using was I believe located on the Empire State Building. I don't know if its still active.

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Re: Lamin terms on 700Mhz

said by KCrimson:

Wasn't part of the band (like many others) taken away from amateur radio operators? I used to watch amateur TV operators (just a few years ago) operating on frequencies that I believe might fall within that band. I would receive them by using my regular UHF rooftop antenna, but set a CATV-ready TV to its CATV channel setting, and tune somewhere around CATV channel 60 or 61. The repeator they were using was I believe located on the Empire State Building. I don't know if its still active.
The CATV frequencies do not correspond to the Off-Air frequency numbers.

The CATV channels in the 60's range line up with the Amateur 420MHz to 450Mhz band,
whereas the actual UHF broadcast Over-The-Air frequencies in the Channel 60 range are up into the 700MHz spectrum range.

Same reason that you would always have to set up a Cable Ready set for CATV or Antenna, they both map channel numbers to different frequencies,
hence the reason for a Cable Ready TV or a Cable Box merely to watch 'Basic Cable' channels.

If the technology interests you, BBR/DSLR now has a ham Radio forum: »Ham Radio

KeysCapt is the mod, and you will find a good deal of experienced hams to answer any question that you might have.

You don't need to actually be a licensed ham to participate, just someone with any questions at all about the hobby...
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KCrimson
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Re: Lamin terms on 700Mhz

Thanks for the invite - I voted in favor of the new forum, didn't know until a few hours ago of its existance. I have always been interested in AR, and even own a dual band HT, as I was planning on getting a license many moons ago. I got it at a swap meet - sold a Sony portable HF/multiband reciever (very popular - forgot its model #) for what was then a current Kenwood TH-77A (which was modified by the original owner to go OOB). Its sitting here all dusty, with a non-functional battery. I should see if I can sell it or get an inexpensive battery replacement. You didn't answer the atomic level question that's bothering me though.

Defiance82
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1 edit

hmmmm

"The FCC yesterday released a list (pdf) of the companies who'll be participating in next year's 700Mhz spectrum auction. 266 applications were received, but only 96 have been "accepted for filing," meaning that ompanies such as Alltel, AT&T and Verizon still have to dot a few i's and cross a few t's. While most of the companies aren't a surprise -- there are a few interesting bidders such as Chevron and the International House of Pancakes (we're kidding about one of those). Charter owner Paul Allen is also on the list bidding under the name Vulcan Spectrum LLC."

So what is this thing called ompanies?
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ropeguru
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Re: hmmmm

said by Defiance82:

So what is this thing called ompanies?
A typo??
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sevenwho

@shawcable.net

?

CHEVRON? eh?

nightstar75

@verizon.net

Ohh Great

Now how the heck can one of our local ISP's even begin to compete in this auction. USA Choice Internet Services, LLC is able to bid for some unknown reason as they are only regional. Google should win quite a portion of it.

Quaoar

join:2004-08-11
Fort Collins, CO

Chevron bids

Chevron, the oil company, of Chevron-Texaco-CalTex, probably has so much profit that they need 'sponges' to soak it up.

This happened in 1972 (I think, since I was a part of it) after the Arab Oil Embargo when oil went from about $2.00/barrel to something like $16.00/barrel. My income more than doubled in two months, and the oil companies bought out everything that they could get their hands on to soak up the excess profit. They profited while everyone else in the US was faced with the elimination of $0.29/gallon of gasoline, replaced with something like $0.49/gallon of gasoline.

Q

SkyBlue9

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1 edit

Re: Chevron bids

said by Quaoar:

Chevron, the oil company, of Chevron-Texaco-CalTex, probably has so much profit that they need 'sponges' to soak it up.

This happened in 1972 (I think, since I was a part of it) after the Arab Oil Embargo when oil went from about $2.00/barrel to something like $16.00/barrel. My income more than doubled in two months, and the oil companies bought out everything that they could get their hands on to soak up the excess profit. They profited while everyone else in the US was faced with the elimination of $0.29/gallon of gasoline, replaced with something like $0.49/gallon of gasoline.

Q
Soak up the loose change in my pocket trying to charge me by the kilobite for internet like they charge for gasoline 3.00 + a gallon.
Another way to make some. $$$ GREEN , wonder what Mr.Martin thinks about Chevron. After all its not MA bell. Or will he ask ATT if its okay that they bid?

So if ATT tells MR. Martin to Jump.

What will be his response?

How High?

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
said by Quaoar:

Chevron, the oil company, of Chevron-Texaco-CalTex
And before they were Chevron they were Standard Oil of California (This was just a name change when they became Chevron not a Merger like when they subsumed Texaco and CalTex). I do not remember when the name change to Chevron occured - All I know is that they were still Standard Oil of California in 1960 when I first bought their stock.

WeSRT4

join:2000-11-20
Mobile, AL

Chevron has the means to win easily

Chevron has by far the deepest pockets of all the other bidders. Is it possible that the want some of the spectrum for offshore communication (rigs)?
markopoleo

join:2003-04-02
Bonne Terre, MO

Re: Chevron has the means to win easily

said by WeSRT4:

Chevron has by far the deepest pockets of all the other bidders. Is it possible that the want some of the spectrum for offshore communication (rigs)?
Cheveron does a lot more than just oil. Just like Microsoft is not about all things computers. They also do lots of medical stuff not related to computers/programming.

wruckman
Ruckman.net

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Northwood, OH

WiMax

Hopefully the winner is a citywide wifi provider.
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inteller
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join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK

When Chevron bids....get concerned.

Energy companies here lately have been eying a lot of eletrical transmission type facilities. I'm not sure what all of it means but if BPL manifests and Chevron gets this spectrum it could mean they have an instant footprint just by buying a few electrical transmission companies.

I have no interest in a company with little experience in communications, getting into communications. All Chevron has experience in is amassing large sums of money at the consumer's expense.
notwrth10

join:2007-03-03
1001EB

Re: When Chevron bids....get concerned.

And you call AT&T execs "assholes with neckties" but when one in your industry does it you don't have a problem with it. Trust me if I wanted to see an "asshole in a necktie" I just look up your posts or think of you when I am at the pump.

Personally I don't think gas should be over $1/gal.

Yea it would be hard not to afford that 15th summer home!
Px

join:2005-04-30

some odd contenders

McDonald's filed as well does that mean i can press a number on my phone and walk in and grab a big mac?
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