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FCC Study: Open Access Lowers Prices, Improves Competition
Agency discovers real science, U.S. broadband mediocrity
by Karl Bode Friday 16-Oct-2009 tags: legal · competition · fcc · business · bandwidth · Op/Ed · legislation · consumers
Gosh, it seems like only yesterday the FCC was telling us that broadband competition in the United States was incredibly robust based on completely inaccurate data. But not only has the FCC seen a change in leadership, they've made a promise to actually base policy decisions on science, not just AT&T or Comcast lobbyist flow charts. As such, a new report by the "more sciency!" FCC confirms what most studies have found: that the United States is "a middle-of-the-pack performer" when it comes to broadband speed, penetration and price.

Contrasting with a decade of FCC "hands off" policy that ignored precisely these kinds of studies, the new study (pdf) suggests that open access policies have helped other leading industrialized nations develop more competitive broadband markets by lowering entry barriers. The 232 page study, crafted by the Harvard University's Berkman Center, argues that in countries where "an engaged regulator" enforced open access obligations, robust competition was usually the result.

The lowest prices and highest speeds are almost always offered by firms in markets where, in addition to an incumbent telephone company and a cable company, there are also competitors who entered the market, and built their presence, through use of open access facilities.
-FCC study
It's not particularly surprising that a study commissioned by a regulator shows that regulator involvement in broadband policy makes sense. Still, the study makes some salient points as it tries to deconstruct the long-standing industry meme that all regulation is inherently bad, and that companies left alone to their own devices will magically lead the telecom sector to a fruitful, organically competitive consumer utopia.

"Contrary to perceptions in the United States, there is extensive evidence to support the position, adopted almost universally by other advanced economies, that open access policies, where undertaken with serious regulatory engagement, contributed to broadband penetration, capacity, and affordability in the first generation of broadband," says the study.

That's not deja vu. It's a return to the central idea of the 1996 telecom act, which required incumbent operators to share network access with smaller competitors in order to bolster competition as those upstarts grew into legitimate carriers. A combination of inconsistent regulation and carrier lobbying ultimately resulted in the U.S. scrapping the idea, though interestingly, countries like France took our discarded idea and made it work. In Paris, those small fry upstarts evolved into competitive fiber ISPs, and consumers now benefit from some amazing prices by our American standards (like 100Mbps Cable, VoIP & 120 TV Channels for $38).

"The lowest prices and highest speeds are almost always offered by firms in markets where, in addition to an incumbent telephone company and a cable company, there are also competitors who entered the market, and built their presence, through use of open access facilities," the study concludes. While American ISPs eagerly dispute this, there is endless data supporting the argument that the policies we employed for the last decade have resulted in neither robust competition nor the kind of lower prices seen in countries with open access policies.

The problem in the States hasn't traditionally been the idea of open access, it has been the way the idea is implemented. Efforts to craft regulation codifying such practices have generally been polluted by lobbyists, who then use said failure to proclaim open access provisions are inherently flawed. It's somewhat of an endless cycle that has resulted in our replacement broadband policy, which essentially consisted of government doing whatever the wealthiest and largest carriers told it to. Not surprisingly, this helped kill off most independent ISP competitors.

The FCC's study of course will fuel their new national broadband plan, which is to be presented before Congress in 124 days. Not coincidentally, the man behind the FCC's broadband plan is Blair Levin, who was FCC boss Reed Hundt's chief of staff during the agency's 1996 attempt at line sharing and local loop unbundling. All of this has to be fairly unsettling to the biggest ISPs, who spent years and millions of dollars lobbying to derail the last major open access push, and now face the daunting possibility of having to do it all over again.

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baineschile
2600 ways to live
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI
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·Comcast

4 edits

So basically....

Give us more for less?

Cant that consumer view apply to every industry in the world?

Dont get me wrong, I am all for good competiton and speeds; but I dont think private ISPs should have to incur the cost of wiring unprofitable areas.

Also, dont forget; municipal fiber services may be cheaper; but the government can make up the money in an area where private business cant: taxes. So, if your cable bill goes down $50 by switching, but your taxes go up the same amount, is is really worth it?

Also, I am all for 3rd party services offering online applications; they definatly can be unique and help the internet progress. But, I dont think the "ISP dumb pipe" should be banned from trying to promote their own application products; as long as they dont block access to third party ones.

thanksfoxnws

@comcast.net

1 edit

Re: So basically....

Also, dont forget; municipal fiber services may be cheaper; but the govertment can make up the money in an area where private business cant: taxes.
Necronomikro

join:2005-09-01

Re: So basically....

said by thanksfoxnws :

Also, dont forget; municipal fiber services may be cheaper; but the govertment can make up the money in an area where private business cant: taxes.
Some of these projects just use bonds, and have to sustain themselves.

n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
said by baineschile:

Dont get me wrong, I am all for good competiton and speeds; but I dont think private ISPs should have to incur the cost of wiring unprofitable areas.
Perhaps that is an area where the government should build the fiber optic infrastructure and then charge a small toll for anyone who wishes to use it in order to support it without taxpayer funds (ISP's and end-users). Just like portions of our highway system that are funded by tolls. Otherwise we would probably have highways only in the major metropolitan areas and nothing in the rural areas connecting them together. We already have the USF yet the big telco's and cable companies seem to be able to collect that money and not completely deliver to those areas.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.

BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Cox HSI

Re: So basically....

said by n2jtx:

said by baineschile:

Dont get me wrong, I am all for good competiton and speeds; but I dont think private ISPs should have to incur the cost of wiring unprofitable areas.
Perhaps that is an area where the government should build the fiber optic infrastructure and then charge a small toll for anyone who wishes to use it in order to support it without taxpayer funds (ISP's and end-users). Just like portions of our highway system that are funded by tolls. Otherwise we would probably have highways only in the major metropolitan areas and nothing in the rural areas connecting them together. We already have the USF yet the big telco's and cable companies seem to be able to collect that money and not completely deliver to those areas.
Except the toll roads are almost always found in metro areas rather than rural ones.
--
"Don't steal. The government hates competition."
Beyond AM. Beyond FM. XM
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
Toll roads are most predominant in the East and near large cities in the Northern Midwest states ( I-80/90). I hate them with a passion. Driving from Washington, D.C. to Maine, for instance costs about $50 in tolls. It's terrible. I can drive from Washington, D.C. to Los Angeles without paying 1 toll, but go through MD, NY, NJ, Mass, Maine, etc, and I'm tolled to death. I can drive from San Diego to L.A., San Fran, Sacramento, Portland, and Seattle without a single toll.

Nah, I don't like that idea. Just put it in the base price.... No internet toll for me, please...

Scatcatpdx
Fur It Up

join:2007-06-22
Portland, OR

Re: So basically....

But at lest the people who are using the roads are paying, not me in Oregon.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
said by baineschile:

Dont get me wrong, I am all for good competiton and speeds; but I dont think private ISPs should have to incur the cost of wiring unprofitable areas.
The same was said many years ago of electricity, telephone and mail delivery.

You also left out a third option - cooperatives. Problem is that the big telcos do everything in their power to stifle their competition, even in the "unprofitable" areas, so it becomes difficult for a small co-op or even muni broadband to become reality in many areas.

baineschile
2600 ways to live
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit

Re: So basically....

said by Eat Me :

The same was said many years ago of electricity, telephone and mail delivery.
And to this day, its more expensive for the electric company, telephone, and mail delivery are more costly in rural areas than densely populated ones.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

3 edits

Re: So basically....

said by baineschile:

said by Eat MeThe same was said many years ago of electricity, telephone and mail delivery.
And to this day, its more expensive for the electric company, telephone, and mail delivery are more costly in rural areas than densely populated ones.
Not true. Our electric and cable TV rates up here are less than those in the more populated areas in NJ.

The electric company is a cooperative, and the cable TV company is a family owned company. Both of those don't have to worry about Wall Street, which is why the rates can be less.

When your utilities are owned by Wall Street or big Government, that is when areas suddenly become "unprofitable."

SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

Re: So basically....

The publicly traded corporations of today are way to big for the infrastructure that supports them. That is why we see this imbalance.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
Agreed!
qworster

join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon FiOS
·MSN

1 edit
said by fifty nine:

said by baineschile:

Dont get me wrong, I am all for good competiton and speeds; but I dont think private ISPs should have to incur the cost of wiring unprofitable areas.
The same was said many years ago of electricity, telephone and mail delivery.

You also left out a third option - cooperatives. Problem is that the big telcos do everything in their power to stifle their competition, even in the "unprofitable" areas, so it becomes difficult for a small co-op or even muni broadband to become reality in many areas.
Not to mention that the ILECS buy up all the spectrum that could be used for wireless in the rural areas-and then sit on it (warehouse it), so it can never be used.
This is yet another way they stifle competition-the big bully comes to town and takes all the good stuff for himself-leaving all the scraps for everyone else.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Nah, just give us real competition so we can choose the companies that offer the best service, or packages we're most interested in.

Instead of having to pick the lesser of two evils.

When you choose the lesser of two evils, you still choose evil. (Jerry Garcia quote!)
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

vzw emp

@qwest.net
said by baineschile:

Also, dont forget; municipal fiber services may be cheaper; but the government can make up the money in an area where private business cant: taxes. So, if your cable bill goes down $50 by switching, but your taxes go up the same amount, is is really worth it?
I understand that's a concern for some people, but where has that happened? Even in areas where the muni project went belly up I don't believe they raised tax rates to compensate. I think this is one of the examples cited by opponents of muni-broadband to drum up opposition to those projects.

I worked for AT&T in the late 1990's/early 2000's when line sharing was still in effect. AT&T knows line sharing works and even took advantage of the 1996 Telecom Act by offering local phone service (pre SBC merger and before long distance companies were allowed to re-enter the local phone market). AT&T offered local phone service in areas served by ILEC's across the country and were doing quite well. We had a backlog of new orders and LNP requests.

I think this fact taught AT&T (and others) 2 things. First, line sharing works. Second, if their customers had another option they would drop their current carrier, leaving AT&T and the other ILEC's (or ISP's for that matter) scrambling to win them back.

WeSRT4

join:2000-11-20
Mobile, AL

2 edits

Conflicts of interest

It seems to me that what we need is seperate content and service providers. This way all TV could be IP based and multiple TV providers could compete through the same pipe. This would really open things up. BTW, Comcast owning NBC shouldn't be allowed to happen. That would be an even bigger conflict IMO.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Re: Conflicts of interest

said by WeSRT4:

It seems to me that what we need is seperate content and service providers. This way all TV could be IP based and multiple TV providers could compete through the same pipe. This would really open things up. BTW, Comcast owning NBC shouldn't be allowed to happen. That would be an even bigger conflict IMO.
IPTV has its own drawbacks, mainly that servicing multiple TV sets isn't possible or you are limited in number (like ATT's U-Verse).

BillRoland
Premium
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Ocala, FL
kudos:2
Reviews:
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I can't help but be reminded...

every month, that my electric bill, which is from the city owned utility, is the most expensive in the entire State of Florida. Government entities can subsidize broadband for as long as it takes to run private enterprise out of town because they can recover it with taxes. Once they are the monopoly, look out.
--
"Don't steal. The government hates competition."
Beyond AM. Beyond FM. XM

baineschile
2600 ways to live
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: I can't help but be reminded...

said by BillRoland:

every month, that my electric bill, which is from the city owned utility, is the most expensive in the entire State of Florida. Government entities can subsidize broadband for as long as it takes to run private enterprise out of town because they can recover it with taxes. Once they are the monopoly, look out.
Kudos
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA

Re: I can't help but be reminded...

said by baineschile:

said by BillRoland:

every month, that my electric bill, which is from the city owned utility, is the most expensive in the entire State of Florida. Government entities can subsidize broadband for as long as it takes to run private enterprise out of town because they can recover it with taxes. Once they are the monopoly, look out.
Kudos
Our city-owned electric monopoly not only charges 1/3rd more than the national average, the billions we pay to the utility to maintain infrastructure get passed to the city coffers instead. (In addition to the 12% tax.)

Recently, they tried to establish a solar rooftop monopoly, so that ONLY the utility's union members could install the panels. Only through a broad coalition of interests did we defeat the "emergency" measure that would have allowed this and committed us to untold billions in rate increases and taxes.

The CEO just quit because he and the mayor were caught violating the water conservation law (after hiring ten "water cops" to enforce it!), while the aforementioned infrastructure has been creating sinkholes 10x a day all about the city. Oh, and of course, there were the lactation classes.

Private firms always have the potential to be evil, but they have an incentive to be efficient, and you can always buy their stock - if you believe them truly so evil, they'll be paying you dividends.
qworster

join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA
Reviews:
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·Verizon FiOS
·MSN

2 edits
said by baineschile:

said by BillRoland:

every month, that my electric bill, which is from the city owned utility, is the most expensive in the entire State of Florida. Government entities can subsidize broadband for as long as it takes to run private enterprise out of town because they can recover it with taxes. Once they are the monopoly, look out.
Kudos
And MY LADWP bill is about HALF what I was paying when I lived in Santa Monica and had Southern California Edison for my electric company!

Just because YOUR govt. can't get it right is no reason to say that NO ONE'S can!

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
said by BillRoland:

every month, that my electric bill, which is from the city owned utility, is the most expensive in the entire State of Florida. Government entities can subsidize broadband for as long as it takes to run private enterprise out of town because they can recover it with taxes. Once they are the monopoly, look out.
Meanwhile our electric rates here are the least expensive in the state. Our electric company is a cooperative.
dishrich

join:2006-05-12
Springfield, IL

Re: I can't help but be reminded...

And our city owned/run electric & water (CWLP) is around the cheapest in the state, if NOT the nation.
They were going to get into muni cable, but it never materialized (unfortunately)...

SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA
Meanwhile, our electric rates are some of the highest, because Texas decided to go free-market. Yay! We had costs of 26cents / Kw last year.
Methadras

join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA

Re: I can't help but be reminded...

said by SLD:

Meanwhile, our electric rates are some of the highest, because Texas decided to go free-market. Yay! We had costs of 26cents / Kw last year.
You need to dig a little deeper to see why that actually happened. You may realize that the finger of blame is pointed elsewhere.

SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

Re: I can't help but be reminded...

Actually, it is fairly well documented, just like the California "energy crisis" that was manipulated by energy traders in collaboration with the energy provider.

It was a pretty big deal - Enron - remember?

ReformCRTC
Support Your Independent ISP

join:2004-03-07
Canada
Yikes! It's only 5.5 cents/kwh here.
cwh

join:2006-05-14
San Antonio, TX
Look like electricty in houston is less than 1/2 of that now.

If your electricty was natural gas based, naturgal prices probably had more to do with that price spike than deregulation.

I paid only about 10kwh in Tx last year, but we use more coal than natural gas here.

SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

Re: I can't help but be reminded...

I'm able to get 12 cents per kilowat for renewable this year, but that is more than double what other parts of the country pay.
cwh

join:2006-05-14
San Antonio, TX

Re: I can't help but be reminded...

said by SLD:

I'm able to get 12 cents per kilowat for renewable this year, but that is more than double what other parts of the country pay.
I think that rate is about normal for most of the country, but yes there are places where it is less expensive.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA
Same thing happened in California when we became unregulated. Well, you saw that in the news a couple of years ago! Greed screwed us. We had electric bills that grew by 5x. It caused many people to leave, or charge those bills on their credit cards that they are now filing bankruptcy on...

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
The problem with the free market approach to electricity is that there isn't free market competition, so in essence a deregulation of rates is permission to pillage.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX

1 edit
said by BillRoland:

every month, that my electric bill, which is from the city owned utility, is the most expensive in the entire State of Florida. Government entities can subsidize broadband for as long as it takes to run private enterprise out of town because they can recover it with taxes. Once they are the monopoly, look out.
And private companies, once they become a monopoly, do exactly the same thing.

At least with governments you have a chance, as slim as it might be, to vote them out.

Try to vote out the Comcastic monopoly.

I view extreme positions of monopolistic power by either a communications company or the government backed initiative as bad for the customers in the long run. The balance between the two is the optimal point or balance between multiple companies clearly limited by anti trust laws. Currently with CC and telco's monopolies it is clear to me that only the government could step in to restore some of the balance. Of course, astro turfing telco/CC supporters will cry foul, but that is what government is supposed to do which is protect the citizen's interest, not the corporations'. A corporation legal status as a persona is an aberration created to get all the benefits and NONE of the obligations and it should be abolished.

SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

Re: I can't help but be reminded...

The right-wingers on here should watch this movie to understand your statement:

»www.netflix.com/Movie/The_Corpor···d=222336

Actually, everyone should watch it.

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

Re: I can't help but be reminded...

said by SLD:

The right-wingers on here should watch this movie to understand your statement:

»www.netflix.com/Movie/The_Corpor···d=222336

Actually, everyone should watch it.
Especially if they can't sleep and want to be thrown in to a stupor.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX

Re: I can't help but be reminded...

said by Linklist:

said by SLD:

The right-wingers on here should watch this movie to understand your statement:

»www.netflix.com/Movie/The_Corpor···d=222336

Actually, everyone should watch it.
Especially if they can't sleep and want to be thrown in to a stupor.
Versus when paying exorbitant bills generated by these monopolistic multinational companies when one becomes wide awake, too late, of course. Some truths are quite boring until they become an intractable problem.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
And you, as citizens and consumers are the ones who could fix that.

So why is yours the highest?
viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25
said by BillRoland:

~snip~ Government entities can subsidize broadband for as long as it takes to run private enterprise out of town because they can recover it with taxes. Once they are the monopoly, look out.
A flaw there is that government entities in situations like this cannot be predatory. I have difficulty believing that the taxpayers would be willing to subsidize this type of situation. To many 'no taxes' types out there (and here, too!).
rdmiller

join:2005-09-23
Richmond, VA

The Free Market will take care of it

Karl,

Both Chairman Powell and Chairman Martin explained this very carefully. The Free Market will take care of everything. Just have faith!

PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD

Re: The Free Market will take care of it

said by rdmiller:

Karl,

Both Chairman Powell and Chairman Martin explained this very carefully. The Free Market will take care of everything. Just have faith!
I pray that that was sarcasm...

SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

3 edits

It is finally coming to light...

It is finally coming to light that Keynesian economics should not be dismissed. That free-market capitalists tend to be either wealthy or incredibly poor (naively convinced they too can fight to the top) bears this out.

The simplistic story of free market forces providing the best services as the lowest margins attracts uneducated dreamers like flies to shit.

The truth of this story is seen in the mono-duopoly experiences we have with broadband / TV service.
Or worse, the wonderful lifestyle that Walmart has brought to us all.
viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25

Re: It is finally coming to light...

said by SLD:

It is finally coming to light that Keynesian economics should not be dismissed. That free-market capitalists tend to be either wealthy or incredibly poor (naively convinced they too can fight to the top) bears this out.

The simplistic story of free market forces providing the best services as the lowest margins attracts uneducated dreamers like flies to shit.

The truth of this story is seen in the mono-duopoly experiences we have with broadband / TV service.
Or worse, the wonderful lifestyle that Walmart has brought to us all.
QFT!
dynodb
Premium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

Shocking

FCC study concludes that greater FCC authority would be better. What a surprise.

I fail to see how penetration would be increased by reducing potential revenue and increasing the return on investment for new deployments. It defies logic.

Want to increase penetration and lower costs? For a start, take on the extortionist tactics of municipalities that add time and expense to new deployments. See Verizon's prolonged efforts to get FOiS into NYC as an example.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Re: Shocking

said by dynodb:

Want to increase penetration and lower costs? For a start, take on the extortionist tactics of municipalities that add time and expense to new deployments. See Verizon's prolonged efforts to get FOiS into NYC as an example.
What extortionist tactics? You mean like guaranteeing that the service will be rolled out to every area of the city?
Alareth

join:2006-12-27
Lamar, MS
FCC study concludes that greater FCC authority would be better. What a surprise.
The report was not created or authored by the FCC.

It was done by Harvard University's Berkman Center for Internet and Society. The funding for the study was also not from the government. It was paid for by the Ford and McArthur Foundations.

ReformCRTC
Support Your Independent ISP

join:2004-03-07
Canada

Re: Shocking

The same people that sponsor many of PBS's Frontline episodes.
Pv8man

join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN

Hey everybody, what are your thoughts on this bill?


(the snake, and bilderberger) Jay Rockefeller recently introduced S. 773, "The Cybersecurity Act of 2009."

Which would apparently give the gov control over BOTH gov and private networks, if they declare an "Cybersecurity emergency"

my question is, is that even possible?

I'm pretty sure people will find a way to by pass it right?

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:33

Re: Hey everybody, what are your thoughts on this bill?

A different subject. Discussed here:

»No, Obama Isn't Taking Over The Internets

You can add your thoughts to the comments there.

Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

2 edits

It's about freakin' time..

..that the FCC finally looks at the data instead of relying on telecom lobbyists. I thought this day would never happen.

I really hope the FCC looks at the broadband bill with alot more scrutiny instead of letting the lobbyists snag all the money and do absolutely nothing to their existing network.

"Look, we bumped our speeds from 5 to 7mbps.. We had to upgrade our entire network and it cost us $500m".. When in actuality, "We pushed a firmware update that bumped the speeds from 5 to 7mbps and that's it. We kept the $500m and used it for new houses/cars/parties/etc for our VPs, etc".

EDIT: Oh, almost forgot (actuality).. "All of our customers will be paying the same for their services and we'll be putting up caps soon to punish you for using the bandwidth you paid for."
--
Bresnan 15M/1M|MyWS[P4HT@4.01GHz,2GB RAM,2x1TB HDDs,Win7]|WifeWS[P4@2.4GHz,1GB RAM,60GB HDD,Win7]|Router[2xP3@1GHz,640MB RAM,18GB HDD,Allied Telesyn AT-2560FX,Kingston KNE100TX,2xDigital DE504,Compaq NC3131,iPro/1000DP,Blitz BWI715,Gentoo Linux]

dobad

@optonline.net

the fcc can do bad all by itself

we've all been used to the past decade of gluttony on the part of corporate america that any little bone they throw at consumers seems to be a platnum paved brick road!
dagg

join:2001-03-25
Galt, CA

here is a thought...

im no fan of government spending but sometimes it does make sense.
case in point: fiber infrastructure
it makes little sense to NOT spend the time and money rolling fiber during road construction and bridge retrofitting. find a way to have some organization control the fiber and lease it at a break-even rate to anyone that wants it.
result? fiber rollouts everywhere... tons of new jobs lots of growth and sudden drop in broadband pricing.

more government? sure, kinda... you would have to have real people to actually manage that kind of network but thats why it should run as a non profit... and the situation is not exactly previously untried (think USPS).

the possibility of seeing real broadband penetration to smaller communities suddenly becomes realistic when done this way.

of course since it all makes sense (even if you dont actually like the idea, it does make sense) it will never happen.
WhatNow
Premium
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC

Re: here is a thought...

Like your fiber idea. I would start in the rural areas that are on the electrical grid so when they run out of money those areas will have it. If they work from populated areas out then those at the end will never get fiber and fast speeds.
pandora
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Google Voice
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·ooma
·Future Nine Corp..

Hey Karl

France has a 20% VAT. The French people live in a high density country. The average French workers income was $ 24,770 in 2003. Almost half of the population lives in Paris, Lyon, Marseille/ Aix-en-Provence, and Lille. 76% of the people live in urban areas. Per - »www.economywatch.com/world_economy/france/

France would be one or two states if it were part of the U.S. It has a smaller GDP than California.

France has suffered very high unemployment forever. They are unable to make many of their people productive. - »www.tradingeconomics.com/Economi···mbol=FRF

As you wish France upon us, please consider are we ready to force march Americans out of rural and suburban areas? Are we really ready to have a constant 7.5-10% unemployment rate? Are we ready for our youth (under 30) to have a 40-50% unemployment rate?

As you love Europe and France, think about some of the negatives these people live with.
--
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."

See 11 replies to this post
qworster

join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon FiOS
·MSN

2 edits

It wasn't 'SCRAPPED'

That's not deja vu. It's a return to the central idea of the 1996 telecom act, which required incumbent operators to share network access with smaller competitors in order to bolster competition as those upstarts grew into legitimate carriers. A combination of inconsistent regulation and carrier lobbying ultimately resulted in the U.S. scrapping the idea, though interestingly, countries like France took our discarded idea and made it work. In Paris, those small fry upstarts evolved into competitive fiber ISPs, and consumers now benefit from some amazing prices by our American standards (like 100Mbps Cable, VoIP & 120 TV Channels for $38).

It wasn't scrapped-it was BRIBED out of existance by the Bush FCC! Remember Michael "the crook" Powell-who never saw a bribe he didn't like? You know him-he's the one who (now) works for the very industry who paid him off!
qworster

join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon FiOS
·MSN

4 edits

Here's the bottom line:

We were sold down the river by the Bush FCC. They took ALL the competition out of Internet. You TRUE conservatives should be LIVID at them! Why? Because IF you truly believe in the free market, then what the Bush FCC did
(essentially ELIMINATE the free market in Internet) should REALLY piss you off!

I live right in the heart of Los Angeles. I have TWO basic ways to get Internet: cable or DSL. CABLE gives me TWO choices: Time Warner or Earthlink. Basically, if I want cable Internet, I have to choose between service that either sucks or REALLY SUCKS!

Great choice!

With DSL I have a few more choices-IF I sign up for AT&T home phone service. If I don't, then I have but ONE CHOICE-AT&T dynamic dry line Internet.

So no matter what I do, I have to pay AT&T something if I want DSL!

Remember, with open access the companies who built the infrastructure do get paid-they simply have to let competitors LEASE part of that infrastructure (the 'last mile') from them for WHOLESALE PRICES. They still get their flesh-just a half pound instead of a pound!

Not only that-but the telcos AGREED TO DO SO-then with the help of the Bush FCC were allowed to renege on their part of the agreement.

If the FCC had truly allowed/required open access, I imagine that I'd have 20 or more choices for Internet, most NOT requiring me to pay AT&T anything. I'd also wager that I'd be paying less then I do (38 dollars a month for lineshare 6000/768 DSL, plus another 10 dollars a month to AT&T for measured phone service that I hardly ever use) AND getting higher speeds!

The way things are, I have two cable choices and ONE DSL choice that doesn't involve me having to buy phone service.

In the second largest city in America no less!

That's pathetic!
aparis99

join:2006-10-24
Owensboro, KY

1 edit

Re: Here's the bottom line:

how many companies are going to spend MILLIONS to build a 3rd, or 4th cable system? It just doesnt give you much ROI with so much $ put into it and a small penetration rate...

you also have satellite internet as a choice (several to choose from) and also using the cellular network
qworster

join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon FiOS
·MSN

3 edits

Re: Here's the bottom line:

said by aparis99:

how many companies are going to spend MILLIONS to build a 3rd, or 4th cable system? It just doesnt give you much ROI with so much $ put into it and a small penetration rate...

you also have satellite internet as a choice (several to choose from) and also using the cellular network
Did you NOT READ my post at all? I said that as a result of The Telecommunications Act of 1996, the regulations were IN PLACE REQUIRING the Telcos to open their networks to others AT WHOLESALE RATES!!!!!!!!

Bush gutted them!!!!!

The wires are just sitting there unused anyway-so why not allow others to use them too-and make a few bucks while you're at it?

Satellite and cellular? Are you serious? Crap speeds and draconian caps-for hugely high prices-yeah THAT sure is serious competition!
aparis99

join:2006-10-24
Owensboro, KY
the point is you DO have options

TXTigerman
Monopolies Kill

join:2000-12-21
Beeville, TX

An FCC that gets it!

Jesus Christ! I thought I'd never see it. What a difference a few years makes.
--
"Soon, we'll be right back to just AT&T." TXTigerman 2001

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