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Family Wireless Data Plans Arrive Overseas
One Bucket 'o Bytes for the Whole Family
Both AT&T and Verizon have dropped hints lately suggesting the companies are exploring the option of family plans, or a "bucket 'o bytes" to be shard between the entire family and all devices. While AT&T and Verizon's trademark expensive per byte charges will be the norm, the migration makes sense -- as opposed to crippling devices so you can layer on tethering fees. Overseas, France Telecom’s Orange is among the first to head this direction, offering plans that can pull from one pool of data. The plans have popped up in Austria, France and the UK, and as you might expect there's layered fees that don't necessarily make sense -- like charging users a fee for each additional device connected. Still, it's a shift away from the cumbersome approach of having a different data plan for every device you own. "We are talking to customers and not SIM cards," says an Orange executive.
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DataRiker
Premium Member
join:2002-05-19
00000

DataRiker

Premium Member

Fee's and below the line charges

The price you pay should be the price that is advertised.
kevnich24
join:2006-04-19
Mulberry, FL

kevnich24

Member

Re: Fee's and below the line charges

Even though I like my unlimited on my iphone with verizon, it doesn't get used much. I'd much rather pay like $50/month for like 10 or 20gb of data that I can use on any of my devices. Sorry but 10gb of data is 10gb, whether it is used on 1 device or 10 devices. Problem is the US companies try to nickel and dime their customers as much as they possibly can before getting their hands slapped while at the same time providing them as little quality of service they can before customers decide to switch carriers. Overseas companies, IMO, don't seem to only have their eye on as much profit as they can get their hands on.

I have no problem with a company making money, but if your charging me $10 for a service that only costs you $.05-$.50 to provide - no, that's extreme.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium Member
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX

r81984

Premium Member

Re: Fee's and below the line charges

Charging by the byte makes no sense for internet because the costs are not based on usage.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536 to kevnich24

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to kevnich24
said by kevnich24:

I have no problem with a company making money, but if your charging me $10 for a service that only costs you $.05-$.50 to provide - no, that's extreme.

Sounds a lot like caller id!
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

1 edit

openbox9

Premium Member

How does it not make sense?

said by Karl Bode:

as you might expect there's layered fees that don't necessarily make sense -- like charging users a fee for each additional device connected.

It makes perfect sense. US carriers currently charge a relatively small price for each additional device/line added to voice tiers. Why would anyone expect it to be different for data? More devices consuming more of a single account's data, while minimizing/eliminating other revenue generating accounts will drive carriers to recoup that lost revenue somehow. It'll be through a combination of "device fees" and higher priced "family plan" tiers.
kaila
join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL

kaila

Member

Re: How does it now make sense?

Oh please..... I'm becoming less tolerant of the just because they can argument. Carriers just can't seem to pass the disruptions advances in technology brings to the cost of doing business on the consumer end (although they'll certainly take them on their expense side).

And like their own employees they expect to have to work for their wages, perhaps charging customers these fees should likewise be 'earned' or matched with some actual expense, not pulled out of thin air.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: How does it now make sense?

Your tolerance is irrelevant. I have to explain this over and over for some reason. The carriers currently enjoy a certain level of revenue. Carriers are not going to willingly decrease their level of revenue. Migrating data plans to shared family data plans will decrease revenue if prices aren't raised or additional fees included.

DataRiker
Premium Member
join:2002-05-19
00000

DataRiker

Premium Member

Re: How does it now make sense?

The wireless industry is a non competitive and collusive environment.

For anyone who's been to Asia, these prices are offensive. Consumers here are getting the worst of both worlds. Higher prices and way more restrictions.

openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: How does it now make sense?

Also irrelevant to the point of my original post. Besides, there are plenty of places around the globe that make the US' prices look like a godsend.

Bill Neilson
Premium Member
join:2009-07-08
Alexandria, VA

Bill Neilson to openbox9

Premium Member

to openbox9
The excuses get better every day

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt to kaila

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to kaila
In general I agree that you buy a bucket of bytes and then use them as you choose.
The exception would be a per device, that is you buy a TB package, but add 50 devices, you (and your friends, family, business, group) are then much more likely to be using multiple devices at once and therefore more likely to max out a cell site/add network traffic at a given time.
There are expenses that are more reasonable attributed to the number of devices that should be billed as such, just as there are other costs based on total bandwidth consumed, and others more related to maximum bandwidth per minute or time of day.
tshirt

tshirt to kaila

Premium Member

to kaila
said by kaila:

And like their own employees they expect to have to work for their wages, perhaps charging customers these fees should likewise be 'earned' or matched with some actual expense, not pulled out of thin air.

carrier average out all the different costs I indicated above to set a flat rate/monthly fee type structure.
If you tend to use your bytes during otherwise low usage times you may be overpaying base on the true cost, on the otherhand user who are on during peak times are greatly underpaying the cost of peak moment service.
Oh yeah, the cost of that large and exact billing system would probably cost as much as your current service plus the actual call cost.
unless the carrier gets some advantage to have you use more bytes at that time you end up with little incentive to exand capacity for peak time. (dropped calls, no service, etc.)
your idea that the should pass on the cost savings could be carried to the extreme of per second billing based on hunderds of factors that go in to the EXACT cost of YOUR call, with and incredibly expensive billing system and paper bill that would make Funk & Wagnall cringe at the size.
MyDogHsFleas
Premium Member
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX

MyDogHsFleas to openbox9

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to openbox9

Re: How does it not make sense?

said by openbox9:

said by Karl Bode:

as you might expect there's layered fees that don't necessarily make sense -- like charging users a fee for each additional device connected.

It makes perfect sense. US carriers currently charge a relatively small price for each additional device/line added to voice tiers. Why would anyone expect it to be different for data?

I'm expecting the opposite, that it will be like the family messaging plan, where for one rate everyone on the family account can do messaging. I think it'll be one rate for a pool of data no matter how many devices are on the family plan (I think they allow up to 5 at AT&T). We'll see!
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: How does it not make sense?

The business models aren't the same. SMS uses the control channel to transfer small amounts of data so that simultaneous use doesn't affect the network. Allowing multiple devices to maintain simultaneous data connections however can have a real impact on the network. I believe one should expect to pay for that impact and I believe the carriers will expect consumers to pay for that privilege.

DataRiker
Premium Member
join:2002-05-19
00000

4 edits

DataRiker

Premium Member

Re: How does it not make sense?

The use of SMS is a throwback to yesteryear for sure.

It really makes no sense to use it if you have data.
MyDogHsFleas
Premium Member
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX

MyDogHsFleas

Premium Member

Re: How does it not make sense?

said by DataRiker:

The use of SMS is a throwback to yesteryear for sure.

It really makes no sense to use it if you have data.

Rate of SMS use is declining a bit but is still high. It is ubiquitous which is its huge advantage. However iOS 5 will hit it hard with the new messaging capability built into the iPhone which bypasses SMS.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9 to DataRiker

Premium Member

to DataRiker
I'd suggest using SMS when data connections are available doesn't make sense so long as SMS usage incurs a surcharge.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Carrot & stick:Carrot of shared bytes for bill by byte stick

Actually this is quite ingenious. Use the carrot of sharing bytes amongst family members and devices in order to make the stick of billing by byte more palatable to the customers. The "bucket of bytes" is a nice incentive for people to accept the end of unlimited data plans.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: Carrot & stick:Carrot of shared bytes for bill by byte stick

Agreed. I expect VZW to introduce its "family bucket of bytes" sometime relatively soon after the 7 July transition to caps. Incentivize customers to willingly give up their unlimited tiers. I'm sure AT&T will follow VZW's lead shortly thereafter to entice more of its remaining unlimited customers to make the leap to caps.
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

jjeffeory

Member

Re: Carrot & stick:Carrot of shared bytes for bill by byte stick

Just got on a 2 years contract with unlimited data. Too bad the Bionic isn't out, had to settle for a Charge... ( Doesn't run Netflix app yet)
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA to FFH5

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to FFH5
AT&T already gave a carrot by making data cheaper. Verizon is dumb, they aren't doing that.

Cheese
Premium Member
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL

Cheese

Premium Member

Hrmmm

family plans, or a "bucket 'o bytes" to be shard between the entire family and all devices

is this not the same?
Cheese

Cheese

Premium Member

Oh right....

data plans..nm
bakorican
join:2004-02-28
germany

bakorican

Member

MultiSim Plans

are ancient history here in Germany. I have 3 sims (you can have up to 4) under one account, and my allotted minutes, bytes, sms etc. are shared between the 3 devices. The only additional cost is the SIM card itself. Most providers here (more than 10) have this option, all for a very reasonable price. Even the most expensive provider here, T-Mobile, only costs €89 a month for unlimited voice data and text. Ever since o2 has introduced whats called the cost airbag, allot of providers offer unlimited everything for around €40 a month.

I have said it time and again in this forum "long live competition". I hope the AT&T Tmo merger will not be permitted to go through as that will further limit the already VERY limited choices consumers in the US have .

Greetings from Germany

Bill Neilson
Premium Member
join:2009-07-08
Alexandria, VA

Bill Neilson

Premium Member

Your entire family under one plan!

Add you, your kids to one plan!

For $95 per month, everyone can get a total of 1gb TOTAL. What a deal!

And just in case you go over, you can add MORE data for an exceptional price!

For just $55, you can garner an addition 50mb!

What a steal!
devnuller
join:2006-06-10
Cambridge, MA

devnuller

Member

Why can't I buy a smart phone without a data plan?

Requiring $30 incremental data plans next time you get a new phone for your child is ridiculous
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: Why can't I buy a smart phone without a data plan?

Because you are a potential revenue stream and allowing you to avoid generating revenue is not a business that carriers want to be in.
MyDogHsFleas
Premium Member
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX

MyDogHsFleas to devnuller

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to devnuller
First off it's not $30 any more. The full plan is around $25 for 2GB/month and there are minimialist plans that are like 200MB for $15/mo, for people who don't use data much.

The answer is that they used to let you not have a data plan and do a la carte data at a high cost/MB. Then all kinds of bad publicity happened because stupid people who didn't bother to understand their plan got multi thousand dollar bills, and OH THE HORROR THOSE EVIL GREEDY PHONE COMPANIES (which BTW was played up big time on this site).

So now they make you have a data plan, so all of us are paying for stupid people who scream and cry and rage and file class action lawsuits when they make a mistake. Just like we pay extra for ladders so lawyers can put big stickers on them saying "BE CAREFUL! LADDER MAY TIP AND FALL CAUSING SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH!!!!"

So it goes in the good old USA.
talz13
join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH

talz13

Member

Re: Why can't I buy a smart phone without a data plan?

Or they could make you get NO data until you sign a contract or actually request it via customer service. But they got fat and greedy on all the accidental charges, and decided to turn it into the revenue stream that it has become today.
MyDogHsFleas
Premium Member
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX

MyDogHsFleas

Premium Member

Re: Why can't I buy a smart phone without a data plan?

said by talz13:

Or they could make you get NO data until you sign a contract or actually request it via customer service. But they got fat and greedy on all the accidental charges, and decided to turn it into the revenue stream that it has become today.

Or there is my explanation which IMO makes more sense and is actually what seems to have happened historically. $15/month is not highway robbery.

David
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL

David to MyDogHsFleas

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to MyDogHsFleas
or why mcDonalds was sued for hot coffee.
elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA

elray to devnuller

Member

to devnuller
said by devnuller:

Requiring $30 incremental data plans next time you get a new phone for your child is ridiculous

You can buy a "smart phone" without a data plan. There are a half-dozen vendors who will let you do that.

••••••

amarryat
Verizon FiOS
join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA

amarryat to devnuller

Member

to devnuller
said by devnuller:

Requiring $30 incremental data plans next time you get a new phone for your child is ridiculous

It's $40 - $10 for the additional line plus $30 for the data. At least that's how it is with Verizon.
xtachx
join:2005-11-19
canada

xtachx to devnuller

Member

to devnuller
said by devnuller:

Requiring $30 incremental data plans next time you get a new phone for your child is ridiculous

You *CAN*. You have to buy the phone outright. (that is no contracts). You save a lot of money this way. Buy the phone and SIM separately.
apollo80
join:2002-01-31
Richmond, VA

apollo80

Member

Who is willing to bail on metered data plans altogether?

I am.

I currently have unlimited data with Verizon. I know I'm grandfathered in.

If Verizon ever tells me that I will have to change over to a metered plan, regardless of the reason, and if Sprint no longer has unlimited pricing, my reaction will be simple.

NO DATA PLAN.

NO SMART PHONE.

Gimmie a cheap flip phone with texting only.

As far as I'm concerned, my smartphone is a luxury, NOT a necessity.

This also holds true for my verizon fios internet. Hey, I'll go back to SLOW DIALUP before I pay metered pricing.

No joke.

Not only will Verizon be losing out, but so will Netflix. Two businesses suffer after I cancel my subscription with Netflix. Thanks to internet service providers who don't ultimately care.

And I know I'm NOT the only one thinking this, cell phone and internet provider industry.

VZWuser
@bellsouth.net

VZWuser

Anon

Re: Who is willing to bail on metered data plans altogether?

I agree. It's why I left AT&T. I'm not doing 2GB for 25 dollars, or 200MB for 15. Just one more thing to "think about". I have unlimited text, so I don't have to think about it. I now have unlimited Data on Verizon, so I don't have to think about it.

Minutes are easy to measure. Data, not so easy, and you have to assume the data is being measured accurately by the service providers. I'm not confident that it is. I'm not confident in knowing fully what apps may be running in the "background". I have no idea what a web site's download file size is. Most people have no idea what the file size is of the photo they upload to Facebook on their mobile device.

So, I despise data caps and metered billing. When I pay for a gallon of gas, I get the gallon. The govt. monitors the legit sale of gas. When I talk for 5 minutes, I can measure that on my cell bill. Data is so much more obscure, hard to monitor, and gauge, despite cell providers best efforts to keep you informed, and educate you, on how much data is used for various upload/download sessions and types.

So, if they cap me, or meter me, I'll likely drop it, or figure out another way to do it. I'd be willing to pay a little more, for unlimited, but they don't want to offer that. Boggles the mind.