dslreports logo
 story category
Feds Start Wait List For DTV Converter Coupons
Program has reached its $1.34 billion funding cap...

Back in 2007, the government announced it would be giving each household in the United States two coupons to help pay for digital adapters, made necessary by the February 17, 2009 transition from analog to digital television. But with the program now running out of cash, the government has announced they'll be putting those who need the coupons on a waiting list. According to the Associated Press, the waiting list was created by the NTIA on Sunday after the program hit a $1.34 billion funding limit set by Congress. Nielsen estimates that as of December, 6.8 percent of the 114 million U.S. households with televisions remained completely unready for the digital transition.

view:
topics flat nest 

Civrock
Premium Member
join:2005-06-25
Wilkesboro, NC

Civrock

Premium Member

Re: Feds Start Wait List For DTV Converter Coupons

Obviously those 6.8% that still haven't done it... don't watch TV anyway!


woody7
Premium Member
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA

woody7

Premium Member

pffttt....

"and this wasn't expected "? My point is that "most" people knew this was coming, and neglected to plan for it. I got the coupon, bought the converter, and mailed it to my mother inlaw.She called and said she already had one, and I said take it to church and let them give it to someone else. It probably would have been better to tell people to go to the post office and pick one up. Contract out to some "chinese" company and have it made. Most people just didn't want to be bothered with the coupon hassle any way.Peace

ctceo
Premium Member
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN

4 edits

ctceo

Premium Member

Re: pffttt....

We planned for it just about a year in advance, and due to the state of the economy weren't able to afford our second box in time to meet the expiration date.

I have a friend that makes over $100k a year, and he applied for the coupons, which should have been restricted from those in his income level to begin with, Id est. Only those in the Poverty/Low Income levels would qualify, $40/$20, 2 coupons/1 coupon respectively.

To top things off, when I got my coupons I had to wait almost 9 months for any local seller to have the damn things in stock at the MSRP (some sold the $40 boxes for $79.99, Wal-mart advertised the boxes for 1 week at $29.99 before they got stock in, then jacked the price to $39.99 when stock was in), and in fact the first day I went there after a hard days work they had already sold out of the 100 units they had in stock THAT WEEK, yes ONLY 100 UNITS.

The execution and planning that went into this program was FAR worse than the problems were having now with people not being ready. This is NOT including the problems the transition alone will cause after the switchover is complete, i.e. More Channels, Less stable and reliable.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

I call BS

could be some of those houses bought boxes without applying for coupons or have newer TVs. I think that 6.8% number is bogus.

AMDUSER
Premium Member
join:2003-05-28
Earth,
ARRIS CM8200
ARRIS SB6183

AMDUSER

Premium Member

Re: I call BS

What the government should have done was mandate that all tvs,dvd-vcr combos (with tuner) etc. sold new at retail had to include a digital tuner starting on January 1,2006. The digital transition was pushed back to 2009 back in 2005 for some reason.

If I was in charge, I would require that all radios sold on or after a specific date had to include HD capability built-in. I would then transition the FM stations to (digital) HD and move the AM stations to the FM band. (I would require the station frequency be assigned in the first 6 months of preparing. The stations would be notified and would not delay the transition which would be in 1.5 years after starting. I would also make it illegal to sell new radios at retail without the equipment built in.

(Primarly to punish the companies who decide to flood the market with obsolete equipment.. mainly Chinese made stuff. Which is what happened while it was still legal to sell analog only tvs prior to March 2007 as long as the stores were in possession before that date.)
apollo80
join:2002-01-31
Richmond, VA

1 edit

apollo80

Member

Re: I call BS

said by AMDUSER:

What the government should have done was mandate that all tvs,dvd-vcr combos (with tuner) etc. sold new at retail had to include a digital tuner starting on January 1,2006. The digital transition was pushed back to 2009 back in 2005 for some reason.
Do you mean what the government should have done, or what they did do? Because there were dates established.

July 1, 2006 - 100% of 25-35" TVs must include ATSC DTV tuner
July 1, 2007 - 100% of 13-24" TVs must include ATSC DTV tuner

I don't have the exact date for dvd/vcr combos or vcr's, but they went through the same thing.

AMDUSER
Premium Member
join:2003-05-28
Earth,
ARRIS CM8200
ARRIS SB6183

1 edit

AMDUSER

Premium Member

Re: I call BS

What they should have done. The date for the diffrent size tvs should have been the same date though. The date for dvd-vcr combos was March 1, 2007.

The other catch was that if you didn't include an analog tuner you didn't have to include a digital tuner. (Which is what was done for quite a few dvd-vcr combos, even those being sold today.)
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: I call BS

said by AMDUSER:

What they should have done. The date for the diffrent size tvs should have been the same date though. The date for dvd-vcr combos was March 1, 2007.
which was nearly 2 years in advance of the transition. fact is store that still sold old stock of items without tuners clearly labled then and people still bought them because they were on clearance. Tough shit for cheapos trying to save a buck. I'm all for saving money but not when it's going to cost me more later. just common sense.

AMDUSER
Premium Member
join:2003-05-28
Earth,
ARRIS CM8200
ARRIS SB6183

AMDUSER

Premium Member

Re: I call BS

Absolutely, a small part of it however was due to retailers not labeling the analog only tvs etc after the law required it.

Some of them were Wal-Mart, Sears, Circuit City and a few others. : »www.boston.com/business/ ··· v_sales/

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena to 88615298

Premium Member

to 88615298
I got a haircut today, and they had a TV in the corner. Another customer made mention that it won't work anymore after February, and the girl just said "Yeah I know, i'll get the converter box before that".

And that was last week.....

I'd say there's quite a few people or small businesses with a TV using rabbit ears still.

dburkland
Student
join:2004-03-05
Minneapolis, MN

dburkland

Member

government

Haha imagine that, a government program running out of cash. Maybe the saviors GDubb and Negative Nancy should create a bailout plan because I hear it fixes everything

JimE
Premium Member
join:2003-06-11
Belleville, IL

JimE

Premium Member

lame

The numbers are likely screwed up by people requesting the coupons that don't need them. I've spoken with several people who requested he coupons "just in case". So even though, the plan has money in the bank, it can't be spent yet because it has to cover all of the outstanding coupons.

SLD
Premium Member
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

SLD

Premium Member

Re: lame

That's me. I have two sitting on my desk right in front of me. Eventually, I'll use at least one of them, I guess.

v35_pilot
Whoops, there goes another AMU
Premium Member
join:2005-12-12
Fayetteville, NY

v35_pilot

Premium Member

That many households need these?

This program ran out of cash because of the millions of households in the US that still receive their TV signal from OTA antennas?

Damn... I am guilty of assuming most received TV from the local cable/satellite companies.

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

Transmaster

Member

At the Beavis and Butthead house on Febuary the 18th

ahhh, hmmm, Beavis what did you do to the TV. This sucks and I don't like things that suck.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

Re: At the Beavis and Butthead house on Febuary the 18th

said by Transmaster:

ahhh, hmmm, Beavis what did you do to the TV. This sucks and I don't like things that suck.
They had to have had cable. I also liked the music video channel they watched better than emptyV itself. Too bad that wasn't a real channel.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned) to Transmaster

Member

to Transmaster
How did they get MTV without cable?

David
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL

David to Transmaster

Premium Member

to Transmaster
Beavis and Butthead,

those guys bring back memories.... I kinda miss them in some sick way.

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena

Premium Member

Re: At the Beavis and Butthead house on Febuary the 18th

said by David:

Beavis and Butthead,

those guys bring back memories.... I kinda miss them in some sick way.
I hear ya. They were cute in some sort of weird way.

David
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL

David

Premium Member

Re: At the Beavis and Butthead house on Febuary the 18th

said by maartena:
said by David:

Beavis and Butthead,

those guys bring back memories.... I kinda miss them in some sick way.
I hear ya. They were cute in some sort of weird way.
I loved the movie, that was the best. The time they backed the lawn tractor in the new cement pond and stayed there while the old guy was looking for masonry units.

djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

djrobx to v35_pilot

Premium Member

to v35_pilot

Re: That many households need these?

said by v35_pilot:

This program ran out of cash because of the millions of households in the US that still receive their TV signal from OTA antennas?

Damn... I am guilty of assuming most received TV from the local cable/satellite companies.
Well, the real question is, how many people with cable or satellite got a coupon that doesn't need one? How many people got a coupon and won't even use it?

I know a few people who don't need it, but picked up a coupon to send to relatives who have more than one TV.

Personally I think the government should tell people, "You snooze, you lose". I think people who really need it should already have acquired their coupon by now. If they didn't they should just have to pay in full for the converter. If $60 is such a hardship they should have acted sooner. The government needs to stop wasting money bailing people out of their own stupidity and laziness.

"A failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."

JSY
Premium Member
join:2000-04-05
Elmhurst, NY

JSY

Premium Member

Re: That many households need these?

The "you snooze, you lose" - I normally would agree with. However in this case, if nobody snoozed, people still would have loozed... er... lost out - simply because there is a X amount of dollars for this, and a Y amount of demand. No one snoozing would have just made the waiting list start up sooner - like last summer, since they would have ran out quicker.

jbgroup1
Non Conformist
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
Dayton, MD

jbgroup1 to djrobx

Premium Member

to djrobx
I have FIOS cable TV and got a converter box with the coupon just in case I might decide to get rid of cable.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000

1 recommendation

morbo

Member

program a joke

This is the program that never should have been. The people that need converters will spend a few bucks to get a converter. Why the need for such a complicated and expensive program? Such a waste.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

Re: program a joke

said by morbo:

This is the program that never should have been. The people that need converters will spend a few bucks to get a converter. Why the need for such a complicated and expensive program? Such a waste.
I agree. Technologies change. People need to adapt.

I liken this transition to the dumping of AMPS/TDMA from last year. Even though the cell phone companies involved had customers using these services, they were somehow able to be transitioned without the need of some sort of government-sponsored program.
cmaenginsb1
Premium Member
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA

cmaenginsb1

Premium Member

Re: program a joke

said by pnh102:

said by morbo:

This is the program that never should have been. The people that need converters will spend a few bucks to get a converter. Why the need for such a complicated and expensive program? Such a waste.
I agree. Technologies change. People need to adapt.

I liken this transition to the dumping of AMPS/TDMA from last year. Even though the cell phone companies involved had customers using these services, they were somehow able to be transitioned without the need of some sort of government-sponsored program.
Except for those using ADT alarm systems that no longer work or were informed. There's an AMPs related lawsuit in Florida already.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

Re: program a joke

said by cmaenginsb1:

Except for those using ADT alarm systems that no longer work or were informed. There's an AMPs related lawsuit in Florida already.
Were they paying money to ADT for monitoring?

If that's the case, what planet was ADT on? Verizon, AT&T and other cell phone companies which had previously offered AMPS service made it very clear this was on the way out. If anyone is at fault, it is ADT for not taking the time to prepare for that transition.

asdfdfdfdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net

asdfdfdfdfdfdfdf to pnh102

Anon

to pnh102
The technology changed because the government mandated it.

I feel confident that if the government was to mandate a change that destroyed the value of the property of the affluent many would be outraged.

Why should we then be indifferent to the destruction of the value of the property of the poor?
It is those who have bought tvs but don't have cable who will end up with worthless, useless televisions. The affluent will be fine.

I think the government made a sincere effort to create a reasonable and just policy and I think the government had to provide the same opportunity to the affluent to be able to recover the value of their property if they had OTA reception. I don't condemn them for the basic structure of the program. The government seems to have made some consideration of the tendencies of humans that would lead to those in the best and most knowledgeable position gobbling up many of the coupons whether they needed them or not. They did set aside a portion of the coupons for those whose sole access to television was OTA.

I just wish the government had done more to make it clear to people that there were a limited number of coupons and to ask them not to claim a coupon unless they needed it and intended to use it. I don't know if this would have solved the problem. I'm sure there would be a certain number of people who would have asked for coupons anyway. I think, however, that most people try to be decent if you nudge them in the right direction and would have refrained if they had fully understood the implications of holding coupons and not using them.
dentman42
Premium Member
join:2001-10-02
Columbus, OH

dentman42

Premium Member

Re: program a joke

said by asdfdfdfdfdfdfdf :

The technology changed because the government mandated it.

I feel confident that if the government was to mandate a change that destroyed the value of the property of the affluent many would be outraged.

Why should we then be indifferent to the destruction of the value of the property of the poor?
It is those who have bought tvs but don't have cable who will end up with worthless, useless televisions. The affluent will be fine.

I think the government made a sincere effort to create a reasonable and just policy and I think the government had to provide the same opportunity to the affluent to be able to recover the value of their property if they had OTA reception. I don't condemn them for the basic structure of the program. The government seems to have made some consideration of the tendencies of humans that would lead to those in the best and most knowledgeable position gobbling up many of the coupons whether they needed them or not. They did set aside a portion of the coupons for those whose sole access to television was OTA.

I just wish the government had done more to make it clear to people that there were a limited number of coupons and to ask them not to claim a coupon unless they needed it and intended to use it. I don't know if this would have solved the problem. I'm sure there would be a certain number of people who would have asked for coupons anyway. I think, however, that most people try to be decent if you nudge them in the right direction and would have refrained if they had fully understood the implications of holding coupons and not using them.
First, the transition wasn't necessary and should not be done. It was about selling off frequencies that were allocated to the public. 95% of the population doesn't notice the difference and was perfectly happy with their analog signals.

IF the transition has/had to happen, it should have been at least 10 years after sales of equipment with NTSC-only tuners were discontinued. (I've got a 20" set I bought in 2005 and a 46" HDTV that I bought in 2005 that have NTSC-only tuners - 2 of them in the 46".) Is the life expenctancy of these TVs really considered to be 3 to 4 years? (At the time I bought the 46, it would have been about $400 more to get the model with the ATSC tuner - and that only added ATSC, not QAM).
SilverSurfer1
join:2007-08-19

1 recommendation

SilverSurfer1 to morbo

Member

to morbo
said by morbo:

This is the program that never should have been.
If you liked the federal DTV coupons, then you will absolutely LOVE that your federal tax dollars are also paying for those on public assistance to have prepaid mobile phones courtesy of Tracfone.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000

2 edits

morbo

Member

Re: program a joke

said by SilverSurfer1 See ProfileIf you liked the federal DTV coupons, then you will absolutely LOVE that your federal tax dollars are also paying for those on public assistance to have prepaid mobile phones courtesy of Tracfone.
ugh... "TracFone Wireless believes that cell phone ownership is a right "
SilverSurfer1
join:2007-08-19

SilverSurfer1

Member

Re: program a joke

said by morbo:

ugh... "TracFone Wireless believes that cell phone ownership is a right "
Welp, look at it this way. Tracfone just provides the phones to welfare recipients. Everyone with a landline is financing it via the Universal Service Fee paid to the FCC . Now they've just extended this slush fund to finance mobile phones for the same group of welfare recipients. People on welfare will get the mobile phones just as they have been getting landline assistance all along courtesy of everyone who has a landline.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned) to morbo

Member

to morbo
said by morbo:

This is the program that never should have been. The people that need converters will spend a few bucks to get a converter. Why the need for such a complicated and expensive program? Such a waste.
You do know that the money from tehe prgram is coming from the spectrum aution. I guess you don't.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000

1 recommendation

morbo

Member

Re: program a joke

i am aware of that, but it makes no difference. that is money that would have been spent elsewhere or saved.

similar to the belief that when buying a house, the real estate agent (buyers agents) don't cost you any money. it's just the seller that it costs 6%. well, where do you think the seller gets that money? why, the buyer of course. it's an ILLUSION of being free. just like somehow the fact that this money came from an auction is the ILLUSION that it is somehow special/free money.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: program a joke

said by morbo:

i am aware of that, but it makes no difference. that is money that would have been spent elsewhere or saved.

similar to the belief that when buying a house, the real estate agent (buyers agents) don't cost you any money. it's just the seller that it costs 6%. well, where do you think the seller gets that money? why, the buyer of course. it's an ILLUSION of being free. just like somehow the fact that this money came from an auction is the ILLUSION that it is somehow special/free money.
You do realize if not for this stipulation the never would have been an auction.

At the end of the day it's $1.34 billion. I know that sounds like a lot to your but it's nothing. about $4.50 for every citizen. We spend that much every 2 days in Iraq.
SilverSurfer1
join:2007-08-19

SilverSurfer1

Member

Lots Leftover

Should use the USF for this...universal slush fund.

jimbo48
join:2000-11-17
Asheville, NC

jimbo48

Member

Converters

I'm one of those who applied for the Coupon Long ago and never used them to buy the converter for my 87 year old mother-in-law- The fact that the coupon "expired" was not clearly defined/mentioned- must have been in the "fine print" no one reads- maybe it's changed since then- Long story short- went to use the coupons and they were no good and you can't get replacements and no one else at your address can get them either-Two coupons per address. Why the government has to subsidize OTA TV is a mystery though-its not a life necessity. If I need to go OTA (Direct TV is becoming the pits for me) or cable ( God help me - I'd have to use Comcast)I'll pay the 60 bucks for a converter and know that I'm not sucking on the Big Teat of our socialist way of life. If you want OTA you'll have to have a digital converter for your analog TV or a Digital TV-no mystery. We switched to unleaded gas and the world didn't end and we'll switch to Digital OTA and life will go on despite all the lawyers and special interest groups trying to extort money from the US taxpayer.

•••

WHYFREE
@96.50.194.x

WHYFREE

Anon

I don't understand..

why they are even giving away boxes for free in the first place. These are people that are too cheap or poor to buy cable or sat service. Why are we giving out yet more tax $$$ for a non-essential service. Let's be honest, once the full transmission phase is over, DTV boxes are going to become dirt cheap. As far as I know the TV doesn't give you a television for free, why should they give you hardware to use it? Just change it and make people buy what would be a 30 dollar piece of hardware themselves. More money in all of our pockets.

•••••
satellite68
join:2007-04-11
Louisville, KY

satellite68

Member

How is this broadband related?

I think Karl posts this stuff to provoke the "free money for everyone!" versus "ban the government now!" arguments that inherently come up here...:)
KennesawMtn
join:2008-12-30
Kennesaw, GA

KennesawMtn

Member

Re: How is this broadband related?

Addressing a couple of statements above.

The funds from for the cards did not come from taxes, but rather from some of the proceeds from the FCC auction/sale to cell phone companies, etc for the rights to use of the 700 mhz UHF spectrum that will no longer carry TV.

Applying for the cards clearly informed you they would expire after 60 or 90 days, and the cards themselves clearly had expiration dates embossed on them.

DaMaGeINC
The Lan Man
Premium Member
join:2002-06-08
Greenville, SC

DaMaGeINC

Premium Member

I signed up for a coupon

And never got one.

no_one
@PHNX.QWEST.NET

no_one

Anon

Free spectrum sales should be vast compared to set top boxes

They did it so they could free up the spectrum and resell the now unused spectrum. The cost of the set top box program is supposed to be cheap compared to the revenue the government could make now selling the freed up spectrum.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: Free spectrum sales should be vast compared to set top boxes

said by no_one :

They did it so they could free up the spectrum and resell the now unused spectrum. The cost of the set top box program is supposed to be cheap compared to the revenue the government could make now selling the freed up spectrum.
Um they sold the spectrum LAST year. They made over $19 billion.

slimpickinz
join:2003-11-29
Conyers, GA

slimpickinz

Member

I got me one of dem dare boxes...

and it don't work worth a damn...
guess I have to gets me anudder coupon for a better antenny...
yup

govmnt cheese
@pacbell.net

govmnt cheese

Anon

I want my gov bailout too.

I signed up for my government handouts too on Dec 31. According to their website they are scheduled to arrive next week.
My cable company has already transitioned a couple channels over to ATSC SD already in their usual 6mo channel shuffle for no reason. There is nothing stopping them from doing the same thing in Feb for all, or just more channels. Without a converter the cable provider can now provide a cable box for yet another "modest" fee.
A couple of things that are interesting is the prices of the converters has gone up it seems. Also I went through some info for the online retailers that are on the happy coupon list and on one the domain was registered April 2008, with no record of existing before that. Everyone's lining up for their profit from the transition.

Piggie
Just A Pig With A Computer
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Orange Springs, FL

Piggie

Premium Member

Re: I want my gov bailout too.


First it was known by the FCC that the money would run out before everyone that needed a converter could get a coupon. They have suggested back in late 2007 that they should find additional funding. I guess that didn't happen. It was all over the news here to get one early or loose.

From the people I know and other surveys I have read it's between 5 to 8% of TV's aren't ready. I say it's probably more like a couple of percent. That is now. There will be a lot of conversation to new TVs, cable, etc.

It will probably take about a year and you can get a converter box for free from a neighbor or free cycle.

Yeap, they expire and the money went back in the pool for a new coupon.

Bailout? Why is it some working stiff gets 2 $40 coupons and he is a socialist communist, but wall street has parties on bail out money to the tune a tens of thousands per person at the party and well, that is ok.

Why the coupons? It was mandated. I suspect most of the complaints about it come from those that still believe in free markets. Well if this had of been a free market change, there would have been no mandated cut off date. Not all countries have such a date and are doing it free market.

Probably last but should have been first. There was always going to be people that didn't get ready. Just like here in FL, a hurricane is coming and they die in the tidal surge. Some people will never listen.
dentman42
Premium Member
join:2001-10-02
Columbus, OH

dentman42 to govmnt cheese

Premium Member

to govmnt cheese
said by govmnt cheese :

My cable company has already transitioned a couple channels over to ATSC SD already in their usual 6mo channel shuffle for no reason. There is nothing stopping them from doing the same thing in Feb for all, or just more channels. Without a converter the cable provider can now provide a cable box for yet another "modest" fee.
Are you sure that they moved them to ATSC? Most cable companies use QAM (which the coupon-eligible boxes are prevented from handling) rather than ATSC, and afaik, they were never required to carry even the locals in ATSC. Sure, they carry the digital feeds, but it's in QAM, not ATSC.

sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ

sporkme

MVM

The captcha that knew too much...

Click for full size
Note the captcha word I got when checking my status today...

silence dogood
@vibco.com

silence dogood

Anon

never got them

I never received my coupons at all, they should have been mailed 11/25/08; status on the website shows approved, etc. I emailed them an inquiry today, but I'm not holding my breath...