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story category Femtocells: It's 'When' not 'If'
2009 could be boom year for new wireless technology
(old news - 02:57PM Sunday Apr 06 2008)
tags: business · wireless · alternatives · telco
Femtocell technology is becoming increasingly important as more and more people ditch their landlines and therefore require better cell phone coverage inside their homes. It’s been said that this technology has failed to hit the mainstream thus far because those wireless companies that also have landline divisions haven’t wanted to jeopardize the latter with femtocells. However, recent announcements from both AT&T and Verizon suggest that these companies are ready to proceed with the new technology. There certainly remain problems that the carriers will face in their deployment including the difficulty of managing the new technology seamlessly and the cost of the technology to the consumer. However, experts in the industry say that the question really is no loner if femtocells are going to be a reality but rather when the carriers will implement them efficiently. Many are predicting that 2009 is going to be a boom year for this sector of the wireless industry.

Related:
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  2. Google, You're a Wireless Tease
  3. AT&T Still Using WiMax As Rural DSL Replacement
  4. AT&T's 2G Customers See A Downgrade
  5. AT&T Looking For Femtocell Testers
  6. Verizon's Open Development Initiative? So Far It's A Joke
  7. Comcast Unveils Mobile WiMax Service
  8. Verizon: Cut Your Landline To Save Money
Forums » Femtocells: It's 'When' not 'If'
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supergirl

join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL
·Cox VOIP
·Skype
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southeast
·magicjack.com

Experts say lots of things....

...Like Bear Sterns was a good investment before it was "rescued."

And, it ain't impressing me if I can't make a call from a bunker 2 miles down, in any airport, and the battery life is 30 days of talk time.
--
Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl
wayne8888

join:2005-10-16
Baltimore, MD

Femtocells

How does this technology differ (if at all) from what T-Mobile offers with its Hotspot@home?
Wayne

SteveLV702
Premium
join:2004-04-22
Henderson, NV

Re: Femtocells

how does it differ from T-Mobiles Hotspot@home... T-Mobiles service only supports a few of their phones and works on any wifi router..

These services support all that carriers phones but only works where person has the femtocell device..

iLive4Apple
Hybrid power
Premium
join:2006-07-13
Helena, AL
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southeast
·ViaTalk

said by wayne8888 See Profile :

How does this technology differ (if at all) from what T-Mobile offers with its Hotspot@home?
Wayne
And T-Mobile Hotspot@home is only through Wifi. Femtocell's use regular cell phone technology to transmit like GSM or CDMA so it works with any regular phone, but unlike T-Mobile's service it only works with your transmitter and can't access it anywhere there is wifi.
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
·Comcast
·Embarq

Charging a fee for what should be free.

I guess the wireless carriers have come up with another alacart special to squeeze some more money out of their subscribers. I observed in one commentary that a wireless carrier wanted an extra $15.00 per month, plus requiring that the customer have broadband service, for the privilege of installing a Femtocell in a customers home. I would think a wireless carrier would give a customer a Femtocell rather than loosing the subscriber because they are not satisfied with the coverage in their home. Of course there is the matter of those pesky service termination fees used to force dissatisfied subscribers to retain unsatisfactory service.

morph3ous
Premium
join:2002-05-16
Miami, FL
·AT&T Southeast
·Comcast Formerly ..

Re: Charging a fee for what should be free.

I was just thinking the same thing. Customers should definitely not have to pay more per month for the 'privilege' of using their internet connection to route their cell phone calls.

The equipment does cost money, but there are other ways to finance that.

My fear is that cell phone service as a whole is going to degrade at a faster pace as femtocells become more widespread and the providers pay less attention to their cell tower networks in primarily residential areas.
--
My Blog

KoolMoe
Aw Man
Premium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD
clubs:

Re: Charging a fee for what should be free.

Yeah, and just wait til the net hits 'by-the-byte' pricing. So we'll pay for wireless service by-the-minute and by-the-byte for our internet. Sweet.
KM

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME

Re: Charging a fee for what should be free.

Not only that... but

a) CAPS on service (through broaband ISP) would be an issue
b) Wireless carriers would have to wave the CAP on the current wireless data consumption as well as lower fees.

Why should I have to pay twice? I pay for my broadband ISP, then I pay for my wireless data which uses my broadband ISP and has caps/restrictions, etc.
--
Canada = Hollywood North

BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

said by KoolMoe See Profile :

Yeah, and just wait til the net hits 'by-the-byte' pricing. So we'll pay for wireless service by-the-minute and by-the-byte for our internet. Sweet.
KM
wear tin foil hat much? There will NEVER be pure 'by-the-byte' billing by ISPs. There might be caps then you pay so much for going over, but never cost per byte starting from the first byte. Secondly talking on a cell wouldn't use up more than a GB perhaps 2 GB a month. And you'd have to talk a lot to do that.

espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
I believe Sprint was charging an extra $15 to have the Femtocell service, but as part of the exchange you get unlimited calling through the device 24x7 with nothing being counted against your standard cell phone plan.

n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online

Re: Charging a fee for what should be free.

said by espaeth See Profile :

I believe Sprint was charging an extra $15 to have the Femtocell service, but as part of the exchange you get unlimited calling through the device 24x7 with nothing being counted against your standard cell phone plan.
If I could get that including unlimited to Canada while on a personal Femtocell from T-Mobile I would sign up for it. Alas, since T-Mobile is doing UMA I doubt I will see Femtocell from them.

old_dawg
"I Know Noting..."

join:2001-09-22
Westminster, MD

said by Mr Matt See Profile :

I guess the wireless carriers have come up with another alacart special to squeeze some more money out of their subscribers. I observed in one commentary that a wireless carrier wanted an extra $15.00 per month, plus requiring that the customer have broadband service, for the privilege of installing a Femtocell in a customers home. I would think a wireless carrier would give a customer a Femtocell rather than loosing the subscriber because they are not satisfied with the coverage in their home. Of course there is the matter of those pesky service termination fees used to force dissatisfied subscribers to retain unsatisfactory service.
Still looking for that free bubble up and rainbow stew all you can eat buffet???.
There is no free lunch, repeat after me, there is no free lunch !

Show me a TOS from any wireless carrier that guarantees reception indoors. And D-UH, how do you expect to get a femtocell to function without a broadband connection in the home?. Should that be free as well?. What a maroon!
--
"Our network engineers are aware of the problem..."

morph3ous
Premium
join:2002-05-16
Miami, FL
·AT&T Southeast
·Comcast Formerly ..

Can the limit it so tha tonly you can use the Femtocell or can your neighbors roam over to it and use your bandwidth too thereby improving the cell network at the expense of your broadband?

Please let me know, I'm still reading up on all of this.
--
My Blog

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype

WISPs vs. the Femtocells?

I predict that one WISP operator that I know of may "reign in" (block?/delay?/limit?) traffic generated by Femtocells. He currently does this with all P2P, including Skype.

With the wireless companies extending their reach by using a subscriber's internet bandwidth via Femtocells, it will be interesting to see if he blocks that, too.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
FCC Public Hearing on the Future of the Internet - Thursday, April 17th - Stanford Univ., Calif.
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
·AT&T Southeast

Re: WISPs vs. the Femtocells?

What are the bandwidth requirements for offloading cellular calls to an ISP? What's the architecture? Similar to that of a typical VoIP setup? I would imagine that your WISP operator acquaintance limits P2P apps precisely for the reasons that we've previously discussed. Bandwidth impacts and the quantity of connections opened...with the latter most likely causing the biggest problem due to the limitations of some of the radios used by WISPs. If the femtocell translates cellular data into an efficient data stream, I doubt that most ISPs would have any more concern than what they currently have with a VoIP provider such as Vonage.

espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
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Private Femtocell installations aren't quite the same thing as Skype. In the Femtocell scenario only your phone would peer up with the device, so the only traffic that would ever transverse your broadband connection would be for the phone calls you directly make. This isn't like Skype where any member can become a supernode and transit call traffic of others; this is much like standard VoIP where you're only talking about a 64kbps (tops) RTP stream to carry the voice traffic of a small finite quantity of users (usually 1).

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC

Re: WISPs vs. the Femtocells?

Both you and openbox might be right about that, especially if the Femtocell calls turn up being free.

Good input, guys.

Vchat20
Landing is the REAL challenge

join:2003-09-16
Warren, OH

Re: WISPs vs. the Femtocells?

Yes. My limited reading on the matter comes out being that these 'femtocells' are purely privatized and require you to 'authenticate' what phones you want to allow to use (I assume by phone #) into the device and only those can make outoing/incoming calls on it. I don't remember what the limit was on how many you could allow on one femtocell, but I do remember there was a limit.

I do not know, personally, if anyone has manufactured one that allows wide open use by anyone nearby using the same cell network the device connects to.
--
I swear, some people should have pace-makers installed to free up the resources. Breathing and heart beat taxes their whole system, all of their brain cells wasted on life support.-two bit brains, and the second bit is wasted on parity! ~head_spaz

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC

Re: WISPs vs. the Femtocells?

That's cool, thanks!

Although if I owned an apartment complex, I think I'd like to put these in my hallways to extend some of these signals indoors.

Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL
·Comcast

DVG834GH

WCDMA radios operate in the 1.9 GHz Rx/2.1 GHz Tx bands

Extends mobile device coverage into RF dead zones and improves reception in poor coverage areas, connecting mobile devices to the wireless network via ADSL

Assures highest possible broadband data rates to mobile phones for downloads

»www.netgear.com/Products/Routers···4GH.aspx
--
I threw out the map a long time ago. Now I follow my own direction!

iLive4Apple
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join:2006-07-13
Helena, AL
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Re: DVG834GH

said by Greg_Z See Profile :

WCDMA radios operate in the 1.9 GHz Rx/2.1 GHz Tx bands

Extends mobile device coverage into RF dead zones and improves reception in poor coverage areas, connecting mobile devices to the wireless network via ADSL

Assures highest possible broadband data rates to mobile phones for downloads

»www.netgear.com/Products/Routers···4GH.aspx
Are they going to release a US version? AT&T only operates W-CDMA off the 850mhz and 1900mhz frequencies.
--
I get 29 MPG in my Toyota Highlander Hybrid!
emptywig
Huh? What?
Premium
join:2002-08-05
Pasadena, TX

Sigh...

Why do we even bother with news stories like this? Femtocells, Wimax, and BPL always seem to be one year away from prime time.

Blah blah blah. Call me when this stuff is ready to go.

wig
--
Please keep your f---ing religion to yourself.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME

Re: Sigh...

For AT&T, they 'could' do a cheapernet style where they have Uverse deployed.

Wherever there's a VRAD, deploy a picocell for their network.

They already have fiber to the 'node' so to speak.

Hang a 'small' site like this one,
--
Canada = Hollywood North

GlenQuagmire
Giggidy Giggidy Giggidy Goo
Premium
join:2004-02-16
Grand Rapids, MI

Lazy way of investing in their network

If I had to put one of these gadgets in my house for my cell phone to work I would not go with that company. If a wireless providers wants my money they must provide a good signal in my home.
--
Yes, its stuck in a windows this time.

JohnDrenZ
Premium
join:2000-04-03
Phoenix, AZ

Re: Lazy way of investing in their network

Exactly! You took the words right out of my mouth

espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
So if you won't let one of these get installed in your house, will you let them put a tower in your back yard?

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: Lazy way of investing in their network

Yeah ... I wonder how many people that don't want a site in their back yards are the same people running WiFi everything and will want femtocells in their house ?
--
Canada = Hollywood North

NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX

Many people get good signals outside the house but inside it just does not work. Look at any carriers contract and they all state that coverage is listed for outside and there is no guarantee that it would work inside.

Some places are just difficult to serve depending on the geography.

ablack6596

join:2005-01-28
Scarsdale, NY
There's no service from any wireless provider in my home.

tc1uscg

join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI

said by GlenQuagmire See Profile :

If I had to put one of these gadgets in my house for my cell phone to work I would not go with that company. If a wireless providers wants my money they must provide a good signal in my home.
Thats find and dandy. But look at all the morons who wanted the whyPhone from AT&T. Lets say, there's this really cool phone you want but you don't have service at your house or it's just so/so (1 bar) and your dropping calls all the time. One of these not only lets you have the device you want from the carrier you want but will allow you to have service in your house without worry also allowing you to CUT your wireline phone (something I would never do anyway) but some will, just so they can pay 15.00 a month for UNLIMITED LD/local calls and dump your 40.00+ pots line. Guess for some, and I'm guessing this is what the wireless carriers want, is for you to dump your wireline line phone, and use THEIR phone for your calls. There are blue tooth devices that will provide dial tone to all your wired phones in the house just through your cell. Though it wasn't intended to replace wireline service, it's just an extra that some don't think about.

koam
Pink Pecker
Premium
join:2000-08-16
East Puddle
clubs:

wow

"There certainly remain problems that the carriers will face in their deployment including the difficulty of managing the new technology seamlessly and the cost of the technology to the consumer."

just wow.

DaveTN

@tds.net

Re: wow

We have the same problem in my house. Excellent reception outside but almost nothing inside. Funny thing is that my wifi is almost 100% throughout the house but almost nothing just outside of the house.
The reason.... we replaced some of the hardboard siding last year and underneath it was foil backed foam insulation in adddition to the fiberglass insulation. Its apparently acting like a "shield" to any signals coming in and going out.
I bought a wireless repeater to try to pull a better signal into the house but it has proven to be a bugger to try to adjust. I have had to move the outside antenna several times because of a feedback loop. (apparently it also picks up the signal that it is broadcasting inside and overloads).

David

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: wow

Look on the bright side... Your house is "hardened" for EMP

Actually maybe that helps when thunderstorms are around, actually...
nokiatech

join:2000-10-18
Stuart, FL
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast

I think some of you are missing the point here.

No carrier is forcing you to buy anything or subscribe to any service here. It is simply an option to consider. The Sprint Airave is the only device that is even slightly available at this point so I'll use it as an example. I'm pretty sure they sell it for 50 bucks. Tmobile's WiFi based setup requires special hardware. What type of phone do you think 50 bucks is gonna buy you? This way you can use WHATEVER phone you want. $50 is also FAR less then the cost of any worthwhile BDA setup. Heck, just a good yagi antenna without the amp will run you that much. Then you also need to consider the time and/or cost involved in installing a BDA especially if you don't want your house looking like a radio station puked on it. Even then it seems you are far more likely to enhance your in building coverage with this device to a far greater degree then you would with a BDA. Sprint was not requiring the $15 month service plan with it and the devices are configured to allow only the handsets you authorize to access the device. For a LOT of people I'd bet the $15 a month for unlimited callig would save a ton of cash.
Doug135

join:2008-01-12
Laredo, TX
clubs:
·AT&T Southwest

What about everything else?

Just like the sprint commercials say. We don't just talk on cellphones anymore, we text, surf the internet, download songs and whatnot, in addition to talking. I don't know much about Femtocells, but will they be able to carry all of this in addition to carrying a voice conversation?
Forums » Femtocells: It's 'When' not 'If'


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