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story category FiOS, U-Verse Start Competing Directly
FiOS encroachment into Texas U-Verse markets expands...
05:36PM Tuesday Jan 13 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: competition · business · telco · Verizon FIOS · AT&T U-Verse
Last year Verizon began laying new plant in select AT&T territories in Texas, putting FiOS in rare direct competition with U-Verse. Verizon's interest in taking FiOS outside of where they've traditionally offered copper-based services piqued plenty of people's interest. Seeing Verizon and AT&T do battle would certainly be appealing to consumers, given it would add a competitive dimension to an all-too-frequently stale duopoly system.

Many believe it's simply wishful thinking. Verizon also repeatedly says their incursion into AT&T territory is very limited in scope. "I wouldn't call this a major attack on AT&T or anything like that," Verizon's Eric Rabe said when Verizon began offering FiOS in some AT&T neighborhoods in the Dalls area. "This is just taking advantage of an opportunity to sell to the rest of the town." Verizon does admits there could be other such "opportunities."

At least one analysis firm thinks it could be the opening salvo in a broader war. Clifford Holliday, an analyst with Information Gatekeepers, recently published a report claiming Verizon will be very successful in the ten to twelve Dallas communities where they're doing battle with AT&T. Holliday predicts they'll like the results of those initial deployments, and will want to move on from there -- most likely to California.

As for Texas, Light Reading editor Phil Harvey e-mails me to note that they've learned that Verizon's encroachment into U-Verse territory will be expanding in February. Their report claims that while this may not have a serious impact on a national scale, it will be interesting for industry watchers to see the two heavyweight giants pummel the hell out of one another. Some apparently see the move as "insanity" on Verizon's part:
"This is a wonderful microcosm of insanity," says industry analyst Kermit Ross, principal of Millennium Marketing. "Verizon is losing POTS lines by the millions, and it seems to me they ought to be doing more to stop the flow of customers fleeing their own territory, before they start looking for customers elsewhere."
While you'd have to think that FTTH FiOS service will come out ahead of AT&T's VDSL2-based offering in a head to head battle, a lot will depend on how the speeds and packages are priced. Given how the two companies work closely together on the lobbying front to erode competitive threats, you have to think they'll hash out a deal that will keep any telecom bloodshed to a minimum.

Related:
  1. FiOSTV Tops Cable
  2. When U-Verse and FiOS Compete
  3. When FiOS And U-Verse Compete
  4. JD Power: TelcoTV Beating Cable In Satisfaction
  5. When FiOS And U-Verse Compete
  6. Verizon Announces New FiOS Tiers, Promotions
  7. Verizon: LTE iPhone 'Apple's Decision'
  8. Verizon: Cut Your Landline To Save Money
Forums » FiOS, U-Verse Start Competing Directly
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Post a:

Boricua65
Oye, chico

join:2002-01-26
Puerto Rico

Limited in scope?

I see this as a test bed to see how successfully FiOS will be against AT&T's U-Verse.
--
Yo te digo, el mundo esta jodido

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

Re: Limited in scope?

said by Boricua65 See Profile :

I see this as a test bed to see how successfully FiOS will be against AT&T's U-Verse.
fios will own u-verse for the fact your internet won't wont take a speed hit if you have the TV on.
plus fios has better upload. whats the best uverse can do on upload? 1536kbps? yawn.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA


1 edit

Re: Limited in scope?

When FiOS and U-Verse directly compete, this is what they'll find...

The 2Wire Router/Gateway device for U-Verse is buggy. Also, the IPTV from U-Verse is very, very buggy. It is much buggier than the STB for FiOS. While I would choose FiOS over U-Verse, they are both better than Comcast, TWC, and Charter!

Yes, I've had all of these services.

Boricua65
Oye, chico

join:2002-01-26
Puerto Rico

Re: Limited in scope?

If I was able to get FiOS, I would jump at that chance. I currently have a wireless phone plan with VZW and with this it would be a bundle with (hopefully) a better discount.
--
Yo te digo, el mundo esta jodido

jchambers28

join:2007-05-12
Alma, AR

glad to see that

fios seems to be better than uverse any day.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: glad to see that

Uverse products are not even fully offered in many markets. At&t still doesn't offer voip in many markets.
Rob2647

join:2008-08-12
Rochester, MI

Re: glad to see that

I don't see what the hype for voip is, most people don't need landlines, why voip. Just a waste of money IMHO.

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
·PHONE POWER
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: glad to see that

Lots of people need landlines. Some people don't live on top of a cell tower and would still like to be able to carry on a clear conversation. VOIP makes having this "luxury" more affordable than the venerable POTS landline. Femtocells aren't widespread yet, but when they come they will help mitigate this issue. Until then, cheap VOIP is perfect for people like me. And for what it's worth, the cell tower I'm connected to is about 3,000 feet from my house, yet the quality is still marginal. Boy this cellular technology works great!

Lots of people also like the unlimited calling/unlimited long distance, full-featured aspect of VOIP. Because of VOIP I pay about half of what I used to for a traditional landline. I get way more features and never have to think about the cost.
--
AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME

Re: glad to see that

That's the main reason for me... cost.

I don't need the 100% reliability of a POTS line, or the cost.
I've been using TWC VoIP, and its as good as POTS for general use, and at nearly half the price ($30/month vs. $45+fees=$58).
There's plans for 2 sites in your area...
Take a look on (wait a couple minutes to load...).
There's at least 2 on Seco canyon to be deployed.
»members.dslextreme.com/users/canuck/map.html

LiamJunket
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Ocean City, NJ
·Comcast


4 edits

What is difference: new plant & overbuilding

Last year Verizon began laying new plant (not overbuilding) in select AT&T territories
If Verizon is laying new plant in AT&T U-Verse area, isn't that overbuilding? A distinction was made. What is the difference?

This story says Verizon is overbuilding:
»www.onetrak.com/ShowArticle.aspx···upport=1
Verizon has begun an overbuild of AT&T in the Dallas suburbs, extending its FiOS service northward from Plano into Frisco and Allen, areas where both AT&T (U-verse) and Time Warner Cable offer video services.

Based on a reading of the maps AT&T and Verizon have filed with the state PUC, the current overbuild appears to cover roughly 60,000 homes. Frisco counts 30,000 occupied homes and Allen 25,000 occupied homes.
Same here: »www.telecompetitor.com/node/671--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

baineschile
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI

Re: What is difference: new plant & overbuilding

I believe he means that they are laying fiber in an area they did not have copper (pots and dsl) before.
vmanu2

join:2008-11-29
Frisco, TX

Re: What is difference: new plant & overbuilding

Thats right.I've seen guys digging trenchs and laying fiber about 2 blocks south of where I live.I've noticed little flags popping up on my block.So,it should'nt be much longer.
ashworth

join:2001-10-06
Pittsburgh, PA
·Verizon Online DSL

An overbuild usually refers to the incumbent carrier "overbuilding" THEIR lines or some company like RCN that does an overbuild on existing structure and/or plant. The 1st article you referred to is that VZ is "overbuilding" in Texas where U-Verse is offered which isn't really an overbuild... just competition.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH
·buckeye cable

Re: What is difference: new plant & overbuilding

RCN is considered an overbuilder because they over built a network. They overbuilt an area where Comcast or TWC or who ever else was the main provider previously.

Overbuilding and building out a new plant in an previously unserved area by one company would mean the same thing.

john q public

@verizon.net

Re: What is difference: new plant & overbuilding

newplant means exactly that verizon is laying lines (fiber) where they have never had a network at all so new plant is brand new network for verizon only

overlay is laying (fiber) over existing verizon network (old copper lines) pots

mystryfiostk

join:2008-07-17
00000
if verizon were to build a traditional copper pots network in at&t territory then it'd be considered an overbuild.

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

1 edit

Build out in non-Verizon territory?

Well that gives me a slight glimmer of hope that they'll come here, especially since they have a statewide franchise agreement. But I am not holding my breath.

tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH

Re: Build out in non-Verizon territory?

I thought the Baby Bells had a gentleman's agreement not to poach each others territory.

/tom

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
·PenTeleData

Re: Build out in non-Verizon territory?

said by tschmidt See Profile :

I thought the Baby Bells had a gentleman's agreement not to poach each others territory.

/tom
According to this article, that's not the case.

Besides, FiOS is marketed primarily as a TV service. Embarq in this area has little interest in TV other than reselling Dish network.
ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
Stratford, CT

Re: Build out in non-Verizon territory?

They primarily dont into each others territory because of the ownership of the central offices. Im guessing Verizon can expand quite a few miles into foreign territory with the fiber service .. much much further than copper can theoretically go.

tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..

Re: Build out in non-Verizon territory?

said by ITALIAN926 See Profile :

much much further than copper can theoretically go.
Yup. BPON goes 20 km, GPON 60 km but all drops must be within 20 km of one another. GPON makes it more cost effective to wire rural areas.

/tom

antwanp
ObamaBiden 2008 I voted, did you?
Premium
join:2002-05-14
Cedar Hill, TX
clubs:

Re: Build out in non-Verizon territory?

If that's true, then that would cover nearly the entire Dallas/Ft.Worth Metro Area. Verizon is largely in the northern suburbs, while AT&T is in the other 90%.
vinnie97

join:2003-12-05
Mesquite, TX

Re: Build out in non-Verizon territory?

Please let it be true, please let it be true. To hell with AT&T's "next gen" offerings!

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
·PenTeleData

said by ITALIAN926 See Profile :

They primarily dont into each others territory because of the ownership of the central offices. Im guessing Verizon can expand quite a few miles into foreign territory with the fiber service .. much much further than copper can theoretically go.
Verizon doesn't have COs here but they do have COs in neighboring towns. Should be interesting.

I doubt they'll reach up by me, but I would like them to.

thereisacothere

@rr.com

Re: Build out in non-Verizon territory?

they have co's here garland has a co on garland rd
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

said by Eat Me See Profile :

Well that gives me a slight glimmer of hope that they'll come here, especially since they have a statewide franchise agreement. But I am not holding my breath.
Well, VZ is requires to wire the county seat of each of NJ's counties first, and its a required area according to the franchise agreement, is there an exception for areas that aren't VZ POTS territory (AKA Embarq)?

Eat Me

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
·Future Nine Corpor..
·VOIPo
·Vonage
·PenTeleData


1 edit

Re: Build out in non-Verizon territory?

said by patcat88 See Profile :

said by Eat Me See Profile :

Well that gives me a slight glimmer of hope that they'll come here, especially since they have a statewide franchise agreement. But I am not holding my breath.
Well, VZ is requires to wire the county seat of each of NJ's counties first, and its a required area according to the franchise agreement, is there an exception for areas that aren't VZ POTS territory (AKA Embarq)?
According to the agreement they are required to wire areas with a certain population density and the county seats of some of the counties. Sussex County (where I live) is not on the list. If they were wiring Sussex County I'd imagine they'd start with Newton first.

There are a few areas like Vernon that are served by really small telcos. Vernon is served by the Warwick Valley Telephone company.

meowBB

join:2002-01-21
Hayward, CA

FIOS

Please bring FIOS to the San Francisco bay area!!!

B52GUNR
KM 7D love and D3 Nirvana
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-06
Alameda, CA
clubs:

Re: FIOS

Yes, PLEASE!

DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:

Re: FIOS

said by B52GUNR See Profile :

Yes, PLEASE!
How about Sonic.net's Fusion Broadband? ADSL2+ at up to 18Mbps/1Mbps today, and available in San Francisco, Berkeley and Albany now. (Sorry, not Hayward, yet anyway.)

Details here »www.sonic.net/sales/fusion/broadband/ and various dialog on my blog at »corp.sonic.net/ceo/

-Dane

Ignite
Premium,VIP
join:2004-03-18
UK
clubs:

Re: FIOS

Any plans to use ADSL2+ Annex M for the extra upstream Dane?

DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:

Re: FIOS

said by Ignite See Profile :

Any plans to use ADSL2+ Annex M for the extra upstream Dane?
Yes, certainly. We're experimenting with it now, and finding the customer premise equipment that supports Annex M to be a little immature.

For those not up to speed (so to speak) on Annex M, it's an extension to the ADSL2+ standard that shifts the down/up split, allowing for up to 3.5Mbps of upstream (in theory, expect less in the real world.)

In addition to Annex M, we'll also be offering pair bonding in future. This of course doubles downstream and upstream speeds, so it's possible to see products with more than 30Mbps downstream and perhaps 5Mbps upstream with Annex M. Again, CPE is the hold-up, it's just not quite ready for prime time, but I believe it will be soon.

-Dane
tjp375

join:2008-07-02
Akron, OH

If I lived in San Francisco I would have Webpass:

»www.web-pass.com/residential/pricing

»www.speedtest.net/result/135622261.png

Forget Fios
jester121

join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
·ViaTalk


1 edit

Kermit is an idiot

"This is a wonderful microcosm of insanity," says industry analyst Kermit Ross, principal of Millennium Marketing. "Verizon is losing POTS lines by the millions, and it seems to me they ought to be doing more to stop the flow of customers fleeing their own territory, before they start looking for customers elsewhere."
What a tool. How does Kermit the Genius propose that Verizon "stop the flow" of people ditching land lines? Super-glue? Blackmail? Ridiculous statement from an obviously clueless talking head.

Hey Kermie, think it might be possible that land lines are going to shrink no matter what the bells do, and maybe expanding a future-ready technology like FIOS is a bold idea? Did you work in politics for the past 20 years or something? Because that's about the only place I can imagine such idiotic comments even making it into print.

Oh, and while I'm ranting -- Kermit, in addition to changing your given name, do you think it might be time to update the old company moniker there? Millenium Marketing? Dude, it's been 10 years since everyone had a millenium-something in their name or motto, it's pretty tired and makes you look like a hack (a hack who doesn't know dick about marketing, I might add).

EDIT: I guess Kermit really does know something about marketing -- apparently he runs a telemarketing company that sells magazine subscriptions... »whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/9132481105

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech

Re: Kermit is an idiot

I thought his idea was a push too, I doubt these little incursions will cost them much more than they planned to pay in the long run anyway...and yeah, how exactly do you stop the death of landlines -- if not by repositioning yourself as a next-generation broadband company...
w4ncr

join:2000-10-27

Re: Kermit is an idiot

PLEASE BRING FIOS BY VERIZON TO WILMINGTON, N.C. WE LOVE VERIZON!!!!!!
TheOnerf

join:2003-05-30
Arlington, TX

arlington tx

bring it in to arlington!, c'mon!.

Anon Name

@verizon.net

Re: arlington tx

It's already in Arlington!
Arlington, VA
Arlington, MA
vinnie97

join:2003-12-05
Mesquite, TX
and Mesquite...save us from the death star!

Duramax08
Oy, Pass It on.

join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX

Guess while everyone is saying where they want it.....

cans east san antonio has high speed internets pl0x?
--
OM NOM NOM
Rob2647

join:2008-08-12
Rochester, MI

If I could get FiOS

I would, for 2 good reasons, first there is caps on FiOS, yet. And speeds much higher than 6 and 10megs. But I'm in the middle of AT&T country.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Fredericksburg, TX
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
·magicjack.com
·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..

WANT

qwest is the telco here, and they have lAmeDSL 5M here. How disgusting...

But they're using Verizon for wireless now, so maybe a buyout? Hoping against hope?

Back home in Fredericksburg, TX Verizon is the telco, but Windstream runs DSL to part of the town. This is due to a company they purchase dawhile back. The max speed? 1.5 Mbit down, 512k up. Needless to say, most of the town is on TWC.

If Verizon had FiOS in either place, wouldn't thikn twice about getting 20/20 internet here in Colorado, and 10/2 for my parents, upgrading to 20/20 over winter and sumer breaks.

UVerse? If UVerse and FiOS were in the same arae, I'd mae sure neither I nor my friends had U-Verse. Who wants internet, TV and voice sharing a single 25/2 pipe?

Build it and they will come. Or, rather, overbuild it and they will come. Verizon, out of all the telcos and cablecos, has the most attractive product. note that I said telco/cableco; muni fiber projects don't count. But my point is that, if FiOS was in an area where i was, I'd be paying more for my internet than I am now...for a connection that is much, MUCH better.

Heck, I remember using FiOS (15/2 I think) back in Spring '07 several miles outside the beltway, on the north side. If you're wondering whether it was amazing the, let me ask you a question: is the sky blue on a sunny clear day? :-D

MrMaster
What If
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Austin, TX
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: WANT

huh?

Your post makes no sense.

What town are you talking about? Fredericksburg is super small. Just be happy you have high speed anything.
--
One never notices what has been done; one can only see what remains to be done. -Marie Curie
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Fredericksburg, TX
·Comcast
·Qwest.net
·magicjack.com
·BeeCreek Communica..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..

Re: WANT

That's like saying "Austin is so big, be happy you have fresh air to breathe". SOrry dude, but believe it or not there are thousands of people within city limits, there are plenty of subdivisions, and you've got a lot of decent-income people willing to pay for service.

Oh, and we have next-to-nothing. I haven't confirmed this, but I think that RoadRunner Turbo customers don't get their advertised speeds, though Standard customers do...and RR is the only internet in town above 1.5 Mbit/s for less than $100, and the alternative is wireless crap.

Am I "lucky to have internet" in a city even smaller, but filled with college students? Nope.

**** city slickers.
qworster

join:2001-11-25
Los Angeles, CA

2 edits

They should move into Hollywood

AT&T is really dragging their feet getting U-Verse into Hollywood, so Verizon should beat them at their own game by building FIOS here in this most lucrative part of LA.
It would be easy for them to bring it in from the West side.

burgerwars

join:2004-09-11
Northridge, CA
·voip.ms
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: They should move into Hollywood

said by qworster See Profile :

AT&T is really dragging their feet getting U-Verse into Hollywood, so Verizon should beat them at their own game by building FIOS here in this most lucrative part of LA.
It would be easy for them to bring it in from the West side.
AT&T has U-Verse up where I live (Northridge) but I haven't bothered to switch from Time Warner. FTTN I feel isn't much, if any, of an upgrade. If it was FTTH, that would be another story. I asked those AT&T sales reps that keep knocking at my door, and they said I should be happy since they didn't need to tear up all the streets. Verizon territory is less than a mile North of me, and it's not the land of trenches and construction there, even though they're building out FiOS there. I wish Verizon would start overbuilding South into my area, but no luck.

bakalao2k

join:2001-03-20
Chicago, IL

Re: They should move into Hollywood

AT&T is dragging their feet with bring U-Verse to the city of Chicago. It is available in most of the surrounding suburbs. I wish FIOS service was available here.
--
"Don't hate the player, hate the game..."
cpuwizkid
Premium
join:2007-04-17
Fullerton, CA

I keep getting U-Verse flyers in the mail (not doortags) at my house here in Fullerton, yet AT&T says that my house isn't serviceable. I would drop TimeWarner in a second if FIOS was here. My cable internet just plain SUCKS!! The cable TV does work decent though.

anon145

@rr.com

blah

We've had loud, nasty Uverse cabinets in my neighborhood- the most densely populated in Austin Texas- for 2.5 years. Nobody can still order Uverse. What a waste of money.

john q public

@verizon.net

fios speeds

hate to tell you guys but the beauty of fiber is its band with potential i believe it or not have a 100/100 mbps on a fiber connection (i work for verizon) this does in no way affect my fios tv service extreme hd package (there is no compression from the provider side on tv service) i have a true 1080i picture and can hold and feel the fiber connection in my home

disadvantage of having a 100/100mbps connection currently there are very very few people who can put out that fast so most of my bandwith i sitting idle by not being used

another disadvantage with the rest of the country being limitied bandwith compared to myself is that internet trafic loads while one single cable cust might be able to put out at a 50/10 mbps they cannot because of system and network loads under using most of my bandwith potential

fiber is the way of the future current limits of the old coax network is stretched to the limits this is one of the reason cablecos are starting to enforce bandwith limitations
Forums » FiOS, U-Verse Start Competing Directly


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