Fiber Broadband Sells HomesAccording to group eager to sell FTTH 11:42AM Tuesday Jun 30 2009 by Karl Bodetags: Fiber · business · statsAccording to a new survey commissioned by the Fiber To The Home Council, home sellers who have fiber to the home connections unsurprisingly have a market advantage when it comes to selling their houses. According to the survey, 82% of home buyers who've had FTTH elsewhere rank FTTH as the leading real estate amenity, a number that drops to 70% among those who've never had fiber. The complete list puts FTTH (and broadband in general) ahead of community security, fitness services, pools, golf courses or other amenities -- which aren't to be confused with necessities, like oh -- a roof that doesn't leak. "The message to the real estate market is to put a sign on the lawn and a line in your ad saying, 'This place has fiber,'" said Joe Savage, president of the Fiber-to-the-Home Council.
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Phil
Rojo Sol
Premium
join:2001-06-11
Camarillo, CA
1 edit |  This was a factor when...
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs: | Re: This was a factor when... I personally would out it as a high priority for me also. | |
| | | | | | | Mattie_B
join:2008-05-16 | Re: This was a factor when... I'm factoring the same thing when I decide to move. I've lived in an area without any real high speed options other than the 3G card I use now. When I relocate I'm making sure I'll have a good HSI provider available. | |
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baineschile
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Sterling Heights, MI
 ·Comcast
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2 edits | Those stats are a tough swallow. Remember, 15% of all internet users still use dial up....
I would say this would appeal to a very limited amount of people. As with all home purchases, location, price, school system, square footage, and general condition of the house are usually more of a swaying issue than if there is municipal fiber. Though, if you find everything you are looking for, and have fiber, that would be a plus.... | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| Re: ? wasn't FTTH, but "very high speed internet" said by GOLFnSUN  :Actually the survey question wasn't FTTH. It was "very high speed internet, such as fiber". I think that also includes coax cable, especially Docsis 3 implementations. » www.flickr.com/photos/34800970@N···5636826/[att=1] LOL. Think the FTTH Council is exaggerating just a bit to make their point??  Also, anyone want to take any bets that the SC developer who did this survey is running fiber to his development? Yeah it sounds kind of hokey...on the other hand.....in the back of your mind it would still be a consideration. Would you buy into an area that was served with dial up or satellite?
But yet again...keep imposing caps, throttling, and using other traffic shaping methods and people won't care anyways!
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| | | kxrm
join:2002-07-18
Fort Worth, TX
| Re: What??? said by Hazy Arc : quote:
According to the survey, 82% of home buyers who've had FTTH elsewhere rank FTTH as the leading real estate amenity
I find that extremely hard to believe. "Well, this house is missing a roof and is in the middle of the ghetto, but by golly it has fiber! I'll take it!!!!1111111" I believe that they are referring to amenities not necessities in this study. | |
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Hazy Arc
join:2006-04-10
Greenwood, SC | Re: What??? Yeah...was using a bit of hyperbole, but it still seems odd that FTTH would weigh that heavily. | |
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baineschile
2600
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI | What other "amenities" come with a house? Communitys with pools and tennis courts i can see, but those are usually paid for with HOA fees. | |
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Phil
Rojo Sol
Premium
join:2001-06-11
Camarillo, CA | Re: What??? Well one necessity my wife and I had when buying our home was no HOA. I guess that could also be categorized as an amenity. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
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join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| Re: What??? said by Phil :Well one necessity my wife and I had when buying our home was no HOA. I guess that could also be categorized as an amenity. you bet!
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA | Well, that's another thing about FTTH, they ain't bringing it out to the ghetto. | |
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Blast 420
Close the world, Open the nExt
join:2007-10-04
the WiReD
| Re: What??? said by jmn1207 :Well, that's another thing about FTTH, they ain't bringing it out to the ghetto. The ghetto here in Tampa has FTTH. | |
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digitalfreak
join:2005-12-09
49533
| said by jmn1207 :Well, that's another thing about FTTH, they ain't bringing it out to the ghetto. Would that be Fiber To Tha Hood? | |
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Opticwonders
Premium
join:2009-03-31
united state | Re: What??? Hehe, thats funny :P | |
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Blast 420
Close the world, Open the nExt
join:2007-10-04
the WiReD | That or Fiber To Tha Homiez  | |
| | | | Luminaris
join:2005-12-01
Winchester, VA | We gots fiber mayne | |
| | | PapaMidnight
join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD
| said by jmn1207 :Well, that's another thing about FTTH, they ain't bringing it out to the ghetto. On the contrary... | |
| | | | | | | MichaelWacey
OwlSaver
Premium
join:2005-01-30
Berwyn, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Re: What??? I worked for AT&T many years ago. Any change we made at that time were based on engineering decisions and capital cost constraints. So, when a CO that served the suburbs and the inner city (there are many of these areas) was upgraded, everyone got the upgrade.
I have always assumed that FiOS is being rolled out the same way. I doubt that the engineers could even come up with a way to redline. I also doubt that Senior Management would condone such a plan.
Just my 2 Cents. | |
| | | | | FloridaBoy
join:2009-06-22
Bradenton, FL
1 edit | Re: What??? Just to follow up on that, Manatee County put provisions in their video contract with Verizon that they had to serve x-number of households by certain dates.
I assume other places might be different but you never know. | |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
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| said by MichaelWacey :I worked for AT&T many years ago. Any change we made at that time were based on engineering decisions and capital cost constraints. So, when a CO that served the suburbs and the inner city (there are many of these areas) was upgraded, everyone got the upgrade. I have always assumed that FiOS is being rolled out the same way. I doubt that the engineers could even come up with a way to redline. I also doubt that Senior Management would condone such a plan. Just my 2 Cents. FIOS is/was rolled out exactly the same way. Redlining is a myth, constantly regurgitated on this website by the "down with America" crowd whenever its a slow news day. They need something to whine about, and GWB is no longer in office, so they make up nonsense about "redlining". Its pitiful, you would serve yourself well to simply ignore them as its just a phase. Tomorrow they will be crying about some other made up situation....
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| Fair enough, I'm not familiar with how it works. It seems that your perspective is coming from a very dense population, whereas my point of view is from a suburban sprawl with only an occasional income-assisted apartment or two here and there. It's very easy to avoid low-income serving CO's when you step outside of the megalopolis of the NY region.
Do these FTTH-equipped ghettos share CO's with any fabulously wealthy residents? I know that they seemingly built the new Yankee's stadium smack in the middle of some of the poorest (relatively speaking) neighborhoods. Certainly a project of that magnitude would have allowed for more options than would have probably been afforded otherwise. Still, unless Verizon is lighting up small towns in central Mississippi, it would seem that they are looking for rich folks first, and due to geography and urban density, stragglers may find themselves with superior potential, even if they can't afford it.
It just seems like good business sense to me. Where is it easiest to build that can handle the speeds and make us some money? Am I to believe the build out is completely random and totally subjective with regards to income class? There may be a few exceptions that can be dug up, but if Verizon is not even looking at the median income range where they are deploying a service that typically runs well over $100 each month, perhaps they could improve their subscriber numbers if they changed their strategy a bit?
In any event, clearly this survey did not include a great number of ghetto dwellers, as such things as landscaping, swimming pools, and home automation were at the top of the list. I realize our government seems to be running amok with our tax money, but I can't believe a ghetto is some posh, highfallutin resort with pools, garden gnomes, and 35Mbps symmetrical internet service. Oy! | |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
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| Re: What??? said by jmn1207 :Fair enough, I'm not familiar with how it works. It seems that your perspective is coming from a very dense population, whereas my point of view is from a suburban sprawl with only an occasional income-assisted apartment or two here and there. It's very easy to avoid low-income serving CO's when you step outside of the megalopolis of the NY region. Even within the NYC metro, the areas that got FIOS first were all lower income than Manhattan.
said by jmn1207 :Do these FTTH-equipped ghettos share CO's with any fabulously wealthy residents? No
said by jmn1207 :I know that they seemingly built the new Yankee's stadium smack in the middle of some of the poorest (relatively speaking) neighborhoods. Certainly a project of that magnitude would have allowed for more options than would have probably been afforded otherwise. The new Yankee Stadium is built right next to the old one, its the exact same neighborhood.
said by jmn1207 :Still, unless Verizon is lighting up small towns in central Mississippi, it would seem that they are looking for rich folks first, and due to geography and urban density, stragglers may find themselves with superior potential, even if they can't afford it. Not really. FIOS rollout is based on a few things;
1) Density
2) Propensity to purchase
3) Cost to rollout
So yes, they (Verizon) are of course looking for the highest rate of return. However, there are many high income areas that dont have FIOS simply because the costs/density ratio isnt yet where it needs to be. I would suspect the ideal target for a FIOS rollout is a fairly dense, middle class area.
said by jmn1207 :It just seems like good business sense to me. Where is it easiest to build that can handle the speeds and make us some money? Am I to believe the build out is completely random and totally subjective with regards to income class? There may be a few exceptions that can be dug up, but if Verizon is not even looking at the median income range where they are deploying a service that typically runs well over $100 each month, perhaps they could improve their subscriber numbers if they changed their strategy a bit? In any event, clearly this survey did not include a great number of ghetto dwellers, as such things as landscaping, swimming pools, and home automation were at the top of the list. I realize our government seems to be running amok with our tax money, but I can't believe a ghetto is some posh, highfallutin resort with pools, garden gnomes, and 35Mbps symmetrical internet service. Oy! Clearly Verizon isnt going to roll out FIOS to a shanty town somewhere under the freeway. The point is that if Verizon can get an acceptable rate of return they will be all over a build, regardless of who lives in the serving area.
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"You're Welcome"
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Keeping the world safe since 1776
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jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA | Re: What??? Good stuff, thanks for sharing. I'm a fairly dense, middle class man, which made me an ideal target for FiOS.  | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
| Re: What??? They cherry picking areas of highest return while selling off the rest of their territory to cheap knockoffs who will never have the money to upgrade their network for their customers. They do all of this while being essentially a monopoly or part of a duopoly in those area. *That* is what makes people angry.
Look at the whole mess in Vermont with Fairpoint customers. They're experiencing an absolute nightmare during the transition. Long periods of dropped access, being billed multiple times for services they never used, waiting excessively long (as in months) for service to be set up all the while being billed during the waiting period. And now Fairpoint is on the edge of bankruptcy.
Verizon was able to shed a ton of debt while leaving their Vermont customers in the dirt.
That really, really makes consumers upset. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by wifi4milez :said by jmn1207 :Well, that's another thing about FTTH, they ain't bringing it out to the ghetto. Thats a common misconception among people on this site. Low income areas were among the first, and most widespread, to get FIOS. The whole "redlining" nonsense is just a bunch of propaganda to get peoples feathers ruffled. Ignore all those comments, they simply arent true. Sometimes you have to run THROUGH the ghetto to GET to the affluent areas.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by jmn1207 :Well, that's another thing about FTTH, they ain't bringing it out to the ghetto. Sometimes you have to run THROUGH the ghetto to GET to the affluent areas.
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
| kxrm
join:2002-07-18
Fort Worth, TX | I bought my home in an area because FTTH was nearby. I'd agree with this, I purchased my home in an area specifically because it was close to FTTH installation and had a good chance of being installed. I won on that gamble. | |
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ameritech
The Helping Hand
join:2008-09-26
Winnetka, IL
 ·AT&T Yahoo
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| Re: Amenities vs Necessities said by iansltx :As others pointed out, the survey is asking, all else equal, what would make someone buy one perfectly good house over another perfectly good house. For me, I'd absolutely rather have fiber than the other amenities. Then again, I don't recall ever living in an amenity-rich environment. Still, going an extra mile or two to a pool or tennis court, versus simply not having high internet speeds...the choice is pretty clear. I would rather walk the 4 miles to the nearest pool than live next door and have to dial up. I don't have fiber, but 12/10mbps Comcast is fast enough compared to the AT&T Worldnet Service.
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| | | rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA | Re: Amenities vs Necessities somebody sure can shovel it. sure goes against what real facts are. the real facts are is that the only area within 200 miles of here that is still enjoying strong house sales is a non fios area. | |
| 
Eat Me
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
1 edit | Schools Good schools are still the #1 amenity that people look for.
I also agree that it isn't necessarily FTTH, but broadband in general that is not satellite or low speed DSL.
I personally wouldn't buy a house where I can't get HSI. | |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27 | Nice but... I can sell my home in seconds flat (matter of fact, I'll have a buyers in bid war). But the problem is where I *want* to move to is rural and no chance of FTTH this decade. And I am still 1.5 hrs to NYC or Philly. WTF!!! | |
| markofmayhem
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
| Do we not check source anymore? Homes within walking distance of a fitness center sell faster.
82% of people with healthy BMI scores who work out regularly surveyed said they would buy a home within walking distance of a fitness center....
C'mon. They surveyed 600 current fiber customers and 600 current advanced broadband customers. They surveyed 1200 people "would you be willing to loose what you have" that surprisingly ranked that over "would you be willing to go farther for".
quote:
Home shoppers used to scan the prospect for a Jacuzzi or an intercom," Heilig said. "Now, not so much. They look for the Verizon Optical Network Terminal and the Verizon broadband home router so they know they'll have the best Internet and TV service over the best home network available today.
Remember, this is based off the fact that out of 600 CURRENT FTTH subscribers, 82% of them place FTTH high on their list of home buying requirements. I'll just say, that seems LOW! | |
| | sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH | Re: Do we not check source anymore? I think the point of the survey is to show that people who've had a taste of fiber don't want to give it up.
This is perhaps true of any communication mechanism. | |
| voipdabbler
join:2006-04-27
Kalispell, MT
| LOL Given how limited fiber deployment is presently, this is funny. You may never see wide-spread fiber deployment in this country, other than to businesses.
I think people will always look at traditional factors in making home purchases, most of which boil down to resell value. Granted, access to high-speed Internet is a factor, but many others come into play and will be weighed just as much by potential home buyers.
Given how the cost of energy will spike if we truly derail coal use in electrical power plants, energy efficiency and smaller size may become the biggest selling points over the next two decades. I believe energy prices will drive the foot print of the American house to shrink, which I think is a good thing. | |
| AstroBoy
join:2008-08-08
Parkville, MD | My cereal has Fiber My cereal has Fiber, should I sell it? | |
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tmh
@qwest.net
| said by AstroBoy :My cereal has Fiber, should I sell it? Just eat it, then enjoy high speed Fiber To The Crapper. | |
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tmh
@qwest.net | Just like utilities While the report may be biased in favor of fiber promoters, high speed internet is increasingly becoming viewed as a utility. Some folks may put up without city sewer or city gas, but it's definitely a plus. Ditto for high speed internet. | |
| | rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
·Comcast
| Re: Just like utilities nobody doubts high speed internet plays a role. what i doubt is people really care whether its high speed cable or fiber. the title specifically says ftth. i wouldnt buy a house that doesnt have high speed available. but ftth is a available and yet i stick with comcasts high speed internet. | |
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screavic
Premium
join:2006-08-11
Paron, AR
1 edit | And I... And I have been telling community leaders this for years now... | |
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benc
Premium
join:2007-06-17
Glen Carbon, IL
·Charter Pipeline
·Future Nine Corpor..
·Callcentric
·AT&T Midwest
| This Isn't The Least Bit Surprising At least not to me.
The faster the Internet, the better. If FTTH came out here, I can tell you that I would jump on to that service in a heartbeat.
If I wanted to buy a house, think that I would want to buy it knowing that the only choices were dial-up, satellite, or something highly expensive like T1 or T3, would I want to buy that house? No I wouldn't. Not unless I got lucky, became a rich asshole, and could afford that T3. This is seriously the only thing that's preventing me from wanting to live in a highly rural area: The Internet access costing too much.
Fast Internet is more important than a garage, I think. | |
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fiber_man
Things Happen For A Reason
Premium
join:2001-01-27
Port Saint Lucie, FL
·AT&T U-Verse
| backbone ? we have several FTTH development in this city and guess what the ISP companies that run them can't serve thier customer good enough to provide relible service. Both are hooked up to AT&T network aat some point but it is their company's dicision how much bandwidth they buy from AT&T.
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| RZKESP
join:2006-08-26
Broken Arrow, OK
·Cox HSI
| Country homes... I doubt fiber is a big enough importance to make a person think differently over a home. As long as the home has equally fast connections such as DOCSIS3.0 or vDSL2.
However... I think this is VERY valid thing for country homes. Although virtually no country home has fiber, it is still an important factor for me.
I want to move into the country later in life. In that decision, it would hinge on internet actually or the cost of providing it to that location. So yeah, the idea is true. However, I don't think that survey is very valid. The idea is in the right place, but the bias isn't. | |
| | RZKESP
join:2006-08-26
Broken Arrow, OK
·Cox HSI
| Re: Country homes... On this note, if I weren't a home buyer but a LAND DEVELOPER the difference would be stark.
If a service provider could provide fiber to the development, then the price of the land would go up greatly with that fact in my mind.
So once again, valid idea, but stupid assumptions. | |
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? wasn't FTTH, but "very high speed internet"
What???
