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Fiber to the Home on the Range
Wyoming town enters Muni fray
Powell, Wyoming, population 5300, found itself suffering the same dearth of quality broadband service that many rural communities experience. So the small town has joined 40 other communities scattered around the US in rolling out their own fiber optic system. The town already has its own power company, so expanding public utilities is not a novel concept. But the question as to whether broadband is a luxury or an essential service is a new debate. "As a city administrator, I hear the term 'economic development' thrown around," said Zane Logan, the leading voice behind Powell's CityNet project. "I can't think of anything more economic-development minded than a fiber optic network." Spokespersons with Qwest and Bresnan Communications beg to differ. They say their companies already meet customers' demands with high-speed, high-quality services. "It is hardly understandable or prudent for a community to do that where there's already an extended marketplace thriving in their community," said Jerold Lambert, associate general counsel for Bresnan. He also hinted that there may be "legal implications" regarding the contract the town has entered into with regional carrier TCT to provide services over the $6 million network.
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

2 edits

Skippy25

Member

And there is the reason

The shear fact that they even make the claim that they provide what the customer wants is the reason it should be done.

The network should be built and anyone and everyone that wants to provide service over it should apply for a permit to do so. So even if Qwest and the other company want to service the people over a better network, they can.
soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX

soothsayer15

Member

Qwest buyout

This is just another reason why Verizon or AT&T would never buy Qwest. It is good common and business sense for rural communities/areas to build their own FTTH networks. Big business will delay as long as possbile to max out profits for stockholders.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 edit

FFH5

Premium Member

No problem with this FRANCHISE deal

The city has entered an exclusive, six-year contract with regional carrier TCT to provide Internet, telephone and cable to those willing to pay for the premium service, City Administrator Zane Logan said.

Construction of the $6 million network could begin this year if the necessary investors are lined up, Logan said. The city isn't committing any money above the $125,000 it provided for a business plan, he said, and he expects the city will be reimbursed that cost.
This isn't a muni fiber network. It is a franchise agreement with a telco provider. And will be funded privately.

The only trouble the town will be in is if Qwest or Bresnan sues because the town didn't put this up to PUBLIC bidding, which most state laws insist on for exclusive public projects. The exclusive nature of the award is what may get the town in trouble in the courts.
PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR

PDXPLT

Member

Re: No problem with this FRANCHISE deal

Whatever you call it (I'd called it "government leadership"), it's obvious that broadband isn't a luxury. You can't run a competitive business without broadband, even things like farming (bigoted stereotypes about farmers on this website notwithstanding). So leaders realize that's something that needs to be present in their communities.

And when incumbents like Qwest say to them, "not available, none planned"; i.e., we're not interested in your needs, only what we think will maximize shareholder value, then communities have a duty to arrange for other options.
grandpinaple8
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY

grandpinaple8

Member

Re: No problem with this FRANCHISE deal

If you are a business that depends on broadband you should be paying for an SLA high bandwidth connection such as a t1 or a t3. Broadband is a luxury. No matter how much broadband improves quality of life and education it will always be a luxury. It can never compare to real health neccessities like running water and gas (for stoves).
claudeo
join:2000-02-23
Redmond, WA

claudeo

Member

Re: No problem with this FRANCHISE deal

said by grandpinaple8:

If you are a business that depends on broadband you should be paying for an SLA high bandwidth connection such as a t1 or a t3. Broadband is a luxury. No matter how much broadband improves quality of life and education it will always be a luxury. It can never compare to real health neccessities like running water and gas (for stoves).
Welcome to the 20th century. Back to the... er...

LoneGreyWolf
Premium Member
join:2002-09-09
Winter Haven, FL

LoneGreyWolf to grandpinaple8

Premium Member

to grandpinaple8
said by grandpinaple8:

If you are a business that depends on broadband you should be paying for an SLA high bandwidth connection such as a t1 or a t3. Broadband is a luxury. No matter how much broadband improves quality of life and education it will always be a luxury. It can never compare to real health neccessities like running water and gas (for stoves).
Actually, you really don't need these things to survive either. They to are just luxuries, they have just been deemed neccessities by people. What you have to understand is that at one time, the things you mentioned were just luxuries as well, only the wealthy had them. Over time however, they became neccessities as they improved human life. Broadband will to, in the probable near futur,e be deemed a neccessity as it improves human life as well.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
quest can sue if they want but if the town is smart they will just ignore the courts and do whats best for the people and not whats best for Qwest.
Bullet257
join:2003-11-18
Orem, UT

Bullet257 to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
This IS a muni FTTH project, funded by a municipal bond, with the City of Powell, through a local Joint Powers Board owning the FTTH infrastructure.

The city chose to pursue this as a "public/private partnership" rather than as a retail play, and to fund the project as a "Non-taxpayer backed" bond.

The service provider, TCT West, is partnering with the city to offer triple play services over the system and TCT is providing bond guarantees in exchange for this right.

So, while this is a unique and innovative funding model, it is far from just a franchise agreement. I know, because I pioneered this model and put this project together.

As far as Qwest and Bresnan are concerned, they were both sent official notices offering them the same deal as TCT, or allowing them to submit other options. Both firms decided not to participate.

In addition to the letters to the two principal incumbents, a public notice was posted in the newspaper offering this to same deal to any and all other interested parties.

Also, a thorough legal review relating to section 253 of the telecom act was performed by noted Muni telecom attorney Jim Baller and an extensive opinion letter was issued to the city council, plus extensive legal review by six other firms on other issues of the model.

We do not believe Brenan's claims in this regard have any merit. This, of course, doesn't prevent them from filing baseless law suits.

Legal threats are part of the incumbents typical scare and intimidation tactics when faced with muni initiatives. Even ones they could have participated in...

Ultimately, the consumers in Powell should be allowed to be the ultimate judges of what they need and don't need relative to fiber based services. Especially where NO tax dollars are being put at risk, and no special advantages given to TCT. (As far as infrastructure is concerned, everyone but the incumbents will admit FTTH can offer more and better of everything than the existing infrastructures.)

The usual cast of characters are against this project for the same very basic and obvious reasons, which they try to dress up as "public concern", no surprises here.

Ernie Bray
Chief Technology Officer
U.S. Metronets

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

batterup

Premium Member

Qwest and Bresnan Communications beg to differ

It is nice to see a Telco and Cable Co agreeing.

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

Transmaster

Member

Re: Qwest and Bresnan Communications beg to differ

Well Qwest, and Bresnan, (Comcast) will have a tiger by the tail with Powell. I would imagine the seed money came from one of the community business development funds Wyoming has set up. It looks like it paid for the business study to interest a Telco in building out the system. So the State money went to a study of such a system and not the system it's self which means it isn't state, or city money that is going to pay for it. This is one argument to Telco's will not be able to argue this issue in court.

Saviour2
@verizon.net

Saviour2 to batterup

Anon

to batterup
Yeah sure, give Fios to the farmers who don't know what the internet is and delay deployment in cities. Great Job.

Smitedogg
Uzbekikitty
Premium Member
join:2000-11-11
Pueblo, CO

Smitedogg

Premium Member

Re: Qwest and Bresnan Communications beg to differ

said by Saviour2 :

Yeah sure, give Fios to the farmers who don't know what the internet is and delay deployment in cities. Great Job.
That's not even a good troll, why would you log out for that?

Scott W
Premium Member
join:2003-08-09
Beaverton, OR

Scott W to Saviour2

Premium Member

to Saviour2
said by Saviour2 :

Yeah sure, give Fios to the farmers who don't know what the internet is and delay deployment in cities. Great Job.
You must be the biggest dumbass that's posted here recently. Apparently you don't know anything about how a lot of farmers do business now, not to mention I know a lot of idiots around here in the enlightened city that don't know jack about computers or the internet either.

So what's your point? Quit whining and move to someplace that has high speed internet like any geek worthy of the name would do. First thing I did when buying my house was find out what my high speed options were BEFORE making an offer on the house.

Smitedogg
Uzbekikitty
Premium Member
join:2000-11-11
Pueblo, CO

Smitedogg

Premium Member

Re: Qwest and Bresnan Communications beg to differ

said by Scott W:
said by Saviour2 :

Yeah sure, give Fios to the farmers who don't know what the internet is and delay deployment in cities. Great Job.
You must be the biggest dumbass that's posted here recently. Apparently you don't know anything about how a lot of farmers do business now, not to mention I know a lot of idiots around here in the enlightened city that don't know jack about computers or the internet either.

So what's your point? Quit whining and move to someplace that has high speed internet like any geek worthy of the name would do. First thing I did when buying my house was find out what my high speed options were BEFORE making an offer on the house.
Oh no, people in a state 3000 miles from the east coast / verizon land are going to use all the fiber which slows down what another company in another part of the country do!
Expand your moderator at work

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

batterup to Saviour2

Premium Member

to Saviour2
said by Saviour2 :

Yeah sure, give Fios to the farmers who don't know what the internet is and delay deployment in cities. Great Job.
The job was awarded without going to a public bid. These town fiber networks are great for the town. It cherry picks the prime areas and leaves the Telcos the farms and swamps. If one does not live in a town forget about ever seeing any broadband.

I would bet that town has every option I do in New Jersey. Cablevision modem with secret cap if one uses too much bandwidth and 3000/768 DSL. They want fiber to the home, well guess what so do I.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to batterup

Premium Member

to batterup
some farmers use more high tech connected gizmos in their work then an office jockey in NYC will touch in their entire life.

a typical combine is more advanced then your lexus will ever be.(you think your navigation is cool, well a modern farm combine can do all that and use the GPS to drive itself. the farmer basicly hooks on the proper harvester for that crop and the computer takes over)

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

batterup

Premium Member

Re: Qwest and Bresnan Communications beg to differ

said by Kearnstd:

some farmers use more high tech connected gizmos in their work then an office jockey in NYC will touch in their entire life.

Cool, you have 5 farmer per one square mile, how many people aer per square mile in MYC? It is 26,720 per square mile. Now you have the towns with dense population doing fiber. That leaves about 1 person per square mile in the swamps and farms. Now where would you deploy fiber? In the farms and swamps one people would have to use as much service as 26,730 people, I don't think so.
grandpinaple8
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY

grandpinaple8

Member

Re: Qwest and Bresnan Communications beg to differ

That is exactly the reason why we have business level service that will serve anywhere. For these insane business circumstances that are broadband critical. Let's face it FIOS is a luxury and Verizon deserves to cherrypick for now. Although, eventually it just makes no sense not to upgrade to all fiber since the copper maintenance still costs money anyway. People seem to think the US is so far behind well what do you think will happen once it is all fiber? fiber is the last upgrade ever needed so clearly there isn't a very thick line between being number 16 and being number 1. It just takes time and solving your broadband dilema isn't exactly at the top of the list. BTW I am not directing that final indightment on you Batterup just all the people who come here to cry about how the US is behind.

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

batterup

Premium Member

Re: Qwest and Bresnan Communications beg to differ

said by grandpinaple8:

That is exactly the reason why we have business level service that will serve anywhere. w the US
That is the fact that is being ignored. The so called *Bells* will run a T-1 to anybody. If necessary they will do it on copper. Will it cost $30 a month? NO.

What people want is a free lunch, they want what they can now get at market price for 1/100 that. Who is going to make up the other 99% of the cost?

Rob A
Adjusting
Premium Member
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ

Rob A

Premium Member

Fios constantly on the move...

nice job verizon.