Fighting New Zealand's 'One Strike' ISP Piracy Law Opponents plan 'blackout' website week.... At the behest of the entertainment industry, New Zealand is poised to include a 'Guilt Upon Accusation,' clause into their copyright laws, which means that if an ISP user is simply accused of piracy then they are declared guilty -- the punishment being Internet disconnection. There were originally provisions included in the law that would address a grievance process for the falsely accused, but they were removed. ISPs, who say they weren't properly consulted, call this "a deeply flawed law that undermines fundamental rights and simply will not work." Meanwhile, there's been four days of campaigning outside New Zealand Parliament by opponents, while others plan to show their opposition with a website " black out" next week.
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  bencPremium
join:2007-06-17
Glen Carbon, IL
 ·Charter
| Good Lord Not saying that you should do something illegal, but what about these situations?
- Kid does the downloading, the parents aren't tech savvy.
- Open Wi-Fi (most people don't secure their APs), and the offender piggybacks on to it.
- Computer gets hacked (hey...it's possible)
That law is unfair. | |
|  |  n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
| Re: Good Lord said by benc:Not saying that you should do something illegal, but what about these situations? - Kid does the downloading, the parents aren't tech savvy. - Open Wi-Fi (most people don't secure their APs), and the offender piggybacks on to it. - Computer gets hacked (hey...it's possible) That law is unfair. For the first, you kill the kid. With the way the copyright laws are headed, the punishment will probably be less severe than for being caught downloading. For Wi-Fi, well if you are too stupid to operate a Wi-Fi device I guess you get what you deserve. Some for #3.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
| | |  vpokoPremium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA | Re: Good Lord Huh? Are you saying anyone who gets their computer hacked deserves it? I won't bother arguing since the point is so ridiculous on its face that I can only assume I misread it. | |
| | | | n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY Reviews:
·Optimum Online
| Re: Good Lord Hacking is generally the result of not running proper security precautions on your computer such as firewall, anti-virus and not keeping up with the patches. Unfortunately, owning a computer connected to the internet is a significant responsibility and many people are not up to the challenge leaving the rest of the world vulnerable to attacks when their system becomes a botnet zombie. You can avoid being hacked but it it requires taking responsibility for your hardware and software.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
| | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: Good Lord n2jtx
How do you secure a system from the cable modem Mac spoof I described above? | |
| | | | | vpokoPremium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA | It's like using a condom, it vastly reduces "problems", but it's far from foolproof and you can still get screwed, pardon the pun.
If you want me to list the ways in which a firewall or antivirus can fail, I'd be glad to, but I think it's obvious to most people. | |
| | | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: Good Lord Which is exactly my point. Since even the most security concerned individual cannot protect his systems 100% a 100% of the time there must be a method of challenging any accusation. | |
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1 edit | said by n2jtx:Hacking is generally the result of not running proper security precautions on your computer such as firewall, anti-virus and not keeping up with the patches. Unfortunately, owning a computer connected to the internet is a significant responsibility and many people are not up to the challenge leaving the rest of the world vulnerable to attacks when their system becomes a botnet zombie. You can avoid being hacked but it it requires taking responsibility for your hardware and software. Ummmmmm Read the security forum more often and you will find out that most anti-malware are way behind the ball on detection. In the past you could get infected if you visited shady sites, nowdays you can get infected by visiting CNN if CNN is hosting infected banner ads.
You can not expect a medical doctor who is 95% more concerned about saving your life to be tech savy enough to install and mantain HIPS, AS, AV, AT, and be up to date with security exploit news and latest Java/Adobe/Quicktime/etc patches. Some people actually have other jobs/lives to deal with. So they place their trust into AV companies. Would you want your medical doctor to focus on updating their security policy while you are dying on the gourney?? Afterall, a zero day attack might hit his/her computer, infect it, then throw it offline due to the law above. So now they can't check their messages, news, literature, papers, collaborate with others, just because they were too focused performing appendectomy while the zero day hit. | |
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| | | said by benc:Not saying that you should do something illegal, but what about these situations? - Kid does the downloading, the parents aren't tech savvy. - Open Wi-Fi (most people don't secure their APs), and the offender piggybacks on to it. - Computer gets hacked (hey...it's possible) That law is unfair. Good excuses but at the end you are guilty according to their definition.
Good answers to your excuses.
1. You should know what your kids are doing 100% of the time if not you are not fit to be a parent.
2. You should make sure your AP is secure.
3. You should make sure your computer have an AV program.
If you can't meet the above requirements your account should be suspended.
Australia and New Zealand are Bush's and the GOP wet dream. A police state to the extreme and we used to criticize the former Soviet Union? | |
| | | vpokoPremium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA
1 edit | Re: Good Lord I'm from the former Soviet Union, and I promise you neither Australia nor New Zeland are anything like it. I'll take our constitutional protections over either of theirs any day, but I would call both of those countries, along with the United States, "mostly free".
Not saying we don't all have problems, but let's keep it in perspective. | |
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1 edit | 1.) Not a single parent in the world knows what their kids are doing 100% of the time. Those that say and/or think they do are either in denial or flat out liars.
2.) Agreed.
3.) I have been in technology support for over 18 years and I can guarantee you that an AV program of any kind is not going to protect you 100% of time. You making that assumption is almost as asinine as the superiority complex you have. | |
| | | | vpokoPremium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA
2 edits | Re: Good Lord Note that the poster said "according to their definition". I believe he's playing devil's advocate and not actually adopting that view himself.
Scratch that, gave Anon too much credit. | |
| | | | | | said by Skippy25:1.) Not a single parent in the world knows what their kids are doing 100% of the time. Those that say and/or think they do are either in denial or flat out liars. 2.) Agreed. 3.) I have been in technology support for over 18 years and I can guarantee you that an AV program of any kind is not going to protect you 100% of time. You making that assumption is almost as asinine as the superiority complex you have. 1. Not a good excuse. In the past I have been called too strict with my children I think that was an understatement.
2. No contest
3. I don't have a superiority complex... I am superior  :D
BTW I've been in the industry much longer than you and even a mediocre and cheap AV programs have done the job just fine. I even can remember when virus files came in as .bat files with rename *.* commands. | |
| | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
2 edits | Re: Good Lord If it is so easy to secure a system, how come commercial sites get hacked virtually every day? The truth is that it is not a matter of if you can be hacked, but if someone wants to hack you. The only truly secure system is welded inside a huge safe, inside Ft. Knox with no connections to the outside world of any kind, even then somebody could probably find a way in. They need to at LEAST have a process of challenging the system. Assuming they have standard Docsis cable internet(I do not know), one can buy hacked cable modems that the Mac ID of the cable modem can be changed. Since virtually all cable systems track users by cable modem mac id, it is an easy matter for the blame to get assigned to the wrong people. | |
| | | | | vpokoPremium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA | said by anon2007 :
BTW I've been in the industry much longer than you and even a mediocre and cheap AV programs have done the job just fine. I even can remember when virus files came in as .bat files with rename *.* commands.
Geez, looks like I gave you too much credit. Typical messageboard post... tout your experience over somone you don't actually know, impress us with your knowledge of .bat files and DOS, and yet still make it perfectly clear that you don't really know what you're talking about.
C'monn, I want to hear you come out and say it, "AV software makes you unhackable!" | |
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| |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| What's funny is that overall NZ is not this way. It's just it seems like everywhere, something has always got to be completely fubar.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| You forgot:
- Someone (ex-boyfriend, ex-coworker, ex-freind) frames them
Think how easy it would be to get back at your boss, or ex-wife, or cheating boyfriend, etc etc
Get them banned from the Internet....
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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|
 ShadowMastrMaster Of All Shadows
join:2001-09-01
Fort Pierce, FL | Can anyone say, George Orwell? "Guilt Upon Accusation"???
How can anyone in their right mind accept this?
This is Big Brother taken to an Extreme even!
Even though this is in New Zealand, we should all be concerned.
We are witnessing the end of this Modern Age, make NO mistake about it.... 
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Follow Your Bliss -- Joseph Cambell
I reject your Reality and substitute my own! -- Adam Savage, Mythbuster | |
| | markofmayhemI can haz competition?Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:4
1 edit | Re: Can anyone say, George Orwell? Have to agree. One of the greatest advances in government was "innocent until PROVEN guilty".
When will the MPAA and other "entertainment entities" realize they spend more in stopping pirating than they are loosing in the pirating itself? Higher quality products may be a more immediate focus resulting in higher profit. Reduced acting cost for subpar performances could be a goal. Just saying, seems like such a small fish to go chasing after all the time. Isn't this all based on the theory that a pirate is watching/listening to a product they would have otherwise purchased? I disagree, most pirated music/movies are products the offender would NOT have purchased, resulting in $0 in damage (most, not all). I'm not condoning theft, just questioning the extreme measures being sought after to recover money not lost. | |
| | |  SLDPremium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA | Re: Can anyone say, George Orwell? When will posters learn that losing is not spelled "loosing"? | |
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 kadarPremium,ExMod 2001-02
join:0000-00-00 | Easy fix All they need to do is report any govt.nz site to the ISP for infringement.
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The Revolutionary War was fought over a 14% tax, what % are you paying now? | |
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1 edit | Re: Easy fix Close, but let me refine that a bit.
You don't want to report Web sites; you want to report politicians, especially the MP's who support this. Here's how you do it, assuming this gets passed by Parliament:
1. First, you need an IP address to report. To get that, simply e-mail the politician of your choice. What you need to do is ask a question that will get a reply.
2. When the reply arrives, check the mail headers for the IP address of the computer on which the message originated. If you don't know how to read mail headers, get someone to help you, as it is vital that you select the correct IP address.
3. Find the address's upstream provider. You can do this by doing a traceroute to that address. Check the upstream's Web site for the appropriate reporting address.
4. Compose a professional-looking infringement notice and send it.
Another useful tactic would be to also target major media outlets. Get enough of their computers disconnected, and you'll see this issue magically appear in newspapers and on radio and TV news. | |
|
amungusPremium
join:2004-11-26
America Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| wow Just insane. 1st post brings up good points.
IP addresses are usually dynamically assigned as well...
What happens when they get to the middle of the list and (however many of) those numbers have changed?
Granted, the ISP sometimes keeps track of that, but most can barely keep up with their accounting.
How about all webmasters black out their entire site for a day.
How about everybody calls in to cancel their internet service.
How about everyone shuts off all technology (unless needed for medical reasons) for a day.
Whatever happens, I hope they can come to a better compromise than the current law. Very poorly thought out, if any brain power was used at all.
"Thinking is the hardest work there is. That is why so few people engage in it."
-Henry Ford | |
| | | | Re: wow
ISP's worldwide should decide whether they should block all traffic to MPAA and RIAA member sites - Disney, Sony, Warner, Universal, etc... and all their subsidiaries, like DisneyWorld and their cruise line, Universal Studios, things like Sony's main .com and all their country .jp, .ok, etc... sites etc.....
Maybe if they can't publicize their crap for a day, a week, a month, or even a year or two, whether it's cameras, toys, movies, destinations, studio equipment, tv's, CD's, whatever - no downloads of patches, no tech support on-line for their customers, nada, they'll smarten up.
It's just an electronic picket line. Just sayin'. | |
| | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Re: wow While that is a great idea, it will never happen. Most of those companies have TV stations as well and most ISPs now also carry Video products too. If they were to "picket" as you suggested, the ISPs would get beat over the head with it when they went to negotiate their next video contract. | |
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 quakerPremium
join:2001-12-27
Rocky River, OH | hmmm it will come down to this, New Zealand guy goes into chat channel pisses someone off and to get back at him make up false accusation of piracy and internet turned off ultimate revenge. | |
| Rob_Premium
join:2008-07-16
Mary Esther, FL | Remember The MafiAA are the true thieves stealing from the poor and giving to the rich.
You people need to wake up. Before it's too late!
If they didn't have their $800 million bank accounts, none of this would be happening.
-Rob | |
| |  Doctor FourMy other vehicle is a TARDISPremium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX | Re: Remember said by Rob_:The MafiAA are the true thieves stealing from the poor and giving to the rich. You people need to wake up. Before it's too late! If they didn't have their $800 million bank accounts, none of this would be happening. -Rob May they put their money into Ponzi scams and lose everything like those who trusted Bernie Madoff did.
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"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Simple Solution Simply accuse everyone who is an elected official or who otherwise works for the government of copyright infringement.
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
| |  fatnesssubtleJanitor
join:2000-11-17
fishing
kudos:13 | Re: Simple Solution I accuse the RIAA of downloading copyrighted movies.
I accuse the MPAA of downloading copyrighted music.
Cut 'em off.
Hey, this is fun!  | |
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|  not quite rightI'm not cool enough to be a Mac person
join:2001-06-23
Puyallup, WA
kudos:1 | Witch Hunt .... Sounds kinda like laws developed in the 1700's | |
|  Edge1These go to 11.Premium
join:2006-03-01
USA |  Honestly
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| |  chazpawPremium
join:2007-03-28
Terrell, TX | Re: Honestly Ditto. | |
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 jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA | Baaaad Idea With so many sheep around and everyone kicked off the internet, there could be trouble. It's shear madness, I tell ya! | |
|  SackerUnemployedPremium
join:2004-01-09
Antioch, TN | ETF Escape If any ISP in New Zealand have ETF just start downloading and get disconnected without the ETF. | |
| | | Cancel RIAA and MPAA internet! I agree with one posters comments. Lets kick these media corporations off the net!
If I was the isp that they hooked upto I first would make a coaltion with all other isps in the area make sure they cant get internet then I would cancel their accounts immediately.
The looks on their face would be priceless. In this case their money could walk cause their BS talked. | |
| | | Europe Its On hackers are being reported to be smashing all anti p2p ifpi and other sites in the last few days as TPB trial contines , and this will get worse and worse as the so called mpaa/riaa try and make it worse.
The keyword here is it will get worse and worse until nothing on the net is visible of them.
Don't complain, do no t whine we don't hear you. We sat here for a full year and let your so called BS talk continue to get the world no where. TIME to show them what can happen in an internet uprising.
as mentor would say:
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This is our world now... the world of the electron and the switch, the beauty of the baud. We make use of a service already existing without paying for what could be dirt-cheap if it wasn't run by profiteering gluttons, and you call us criminals. We explore... and you call us criminals. We seek after knowledge... and you call us criminals. We exist without skin color, without nationality, without religious bias... and you call us criminals. You build atomic bombs, you wage wars, you murder, cheat, and lie to us and try to make us believe it's for our own good, yet we're the criminals.
Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for.
I am a hacker, and this is my manifesto. You may stop this individual, but you can't stop us all... after all, we're all alike. | |
| Doctor FourMy other vehicle is a TARDISPremium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX | What's good for the goose If the MAFIAA cartels are going to force NZ ISPs to follow a one strike law, the same ought to apply to them. After one false infringement claim, they should lose their Internet access. Similarly, in places where three strikes laws have been passed or are pending, the same should apply.
It cannot be a one way street. But the MAFIAA and their corporate apologists/trolls/shills would have it that way. Or at least their rhetoric, which parrots the corporate line sometimes almost word for word, makes it sound like they want that.
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"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
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| |  TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | Please Sir....
Please Sire Can I have My Internet Back. |
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| | Reviews:
·SureWest Internet
·AT&T Yahoo
·Comcast
| Re: What's good for the goose said by Doctor Four:If the MAFIAA cartels are going to force NZ ISPs to follow a one strike law, the same ought to apply to them. After one false infringement claim, they should lose their Internet access. Similarly, in places where three strikes laws have been passed or are pending, the same should apply. It cannot be a one way street. But the MAFIAA and their corporate apologists/trolls/shills would have it that way. Or at least their rhetoric, which parrots the corporate line sometimes almost word for word, makes it sound like they want that. Its call fascism or corporatism or nazism | |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| What's even more unfair is Broadband in NZ... ... is extremely limited. Many areas can't get anything but "Cellphone" internet access, and in other areas there is a whole one provider available for a whole city.
What this means of course, is ONE ACCUSATION and you're BANNED from Broadband.... One strike, you're out, perhaps permanently. Imagine being banned from broadband--- that would almost be a disability in many ways---- conveniences others enjoy you can't.... jobs you couldn't take etc etc you'd be a second class citizen in many ways....
This law is massively unfair.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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|  winsyrstrifeRiver City BouncePremium
join:2002-04-30
Brooklyn, NY | Full Speed Ahead Wow....we've been reading about Australia / New Zealand's odd restriction policies for a while now, but this Piracy law process is moving ahead at an alarmingly fast rate. Did you guys down under get a chance to throw in issues that really matter along with this BS? Seems like it would have gone through instantaneously.
What the Hell did the RIAA/MPAA get on New Zealand, to have them bend over so fast?
--
"Suddenly everything is fainting, falling from a broken ladder's rung. There's a jolt exhilarating from the phone I'm holding...I hear the words of what I'll become, how eager the hands that reach for love." - Blind Melon - New Life | |
|  Link LoggerPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
·Shaw
| All Blacks beaten down by Media Fat Cats I can't believe that a country with a team like the All Blacks is going to roll over and grease up on this, as its goofy beyond belief.
So does this only apply to 'entertainment' media or can software vendors use this (software piracy exists so why should 'entertainment' bits get preferential treatment), if so then all ISV's should make a claim against the media moguls and hence we could effectively hit them back on the only level they seem to know and shutoff their internet access and hence curtain their businesses and income (yes there is the only word that they understand, money).
While I don't endorse or otherwise suggest or recommend piracy of anything, but this 'assumed guilty until proven innocent' is overly extreme and could be considered an example of preferential law and hence just simply wrong.
Blake
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Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool | |
| |  Rogue WolfAte Your Homework, And Framed The Dog
join:2003-08-12
Troy, NY | Re: All Blacks beaten down by Media Fat Cats For those not "in" on the international sports scene, the "All Blacks" Blake's referring to is NZ's celebrated rugby team. Just so people don't jump to conclusions and scream "RACIST!" or something.
And I fully agree with this point as well. This law is well beyond the pale and smacks of corporate policymaking. New Zealanders, the ball is in your hands now- it's time to show these moneygrubbing politicians some political pain, the likes of which would make the All Blacks proud.
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Attention. Attention, please. We have the funk. I repeat, we are in full possession of the funk. | |
| | | | | Re: All Blacks beaten down by Media Fat Cats Most people in Australia are trying to fight the insane laws the govt are trying to pass at the behest of a few conservative voters (like you guys in the US don't know what that's like!) (talking about the internet filter)
Just keep an eye on things, the US and Canada are next. | |
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| | Clarifications It is three strikes and you are out, not one.
It is assumed guilt by accusation and then prove you are innocent. The RIANZ (equivalent of RIAA) go further on this. They also do not want to have to provide any evidence as this would slow the process down.
While a small percentage of the population has limited ISPs ( 20. Since it takes 3 months to disconnect someone, and 18 months to 'erase your record' then a user needs to change their ISP six times. RIANZ want to reduce this time further of course.
The act has been delayed a month and also if agreement is not reached by 27 march then it will be discarded. I suspect RIANZ will drop its demands by this time, so it will still go ahead as it stands, but time will tell. It will also be reviewed after six months to see how workable it is.
The trick is not to accuse the accusers but the mass population that do not have the knowledge or skills to manage this. That will drive the bill to be unworkable. | |
| | | HUH? quote:
Unfortunately, owning a computer connected to the internet is a significant responsibility
HUH?
YOU are responsible for yourSELF; not the other end-user.
quote:
You can avoid being hacked ... .
I dare you to say YOU can't be hacked... | |
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Those falsely accused should be compensated.
I heard someone make a comment on the matter of taking away fundamental rights, that seemed somewhat radical. It was suggested that those persons or organizations that pass laws or regulations over riding fundamental rights without recourse, be removed from office using the C-4 method. I suggested it might be more practical to provide an appeal process and force the person or organization that made the false accusation compensate the accused person for time wasted responding to the accusation. When I say large sums of money I mean $100,000.00 paid to the accused per occurrence. That will give the copyright control organizations a real incentive to get it right the first time before filing a complaining. The compensation for those falsely accused will be more in line with compensation that copyright owners can demand under the DMCA. 
