 moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21 Glen Burnie, MD | And so it begins....... ....the beginning of the end. | |
|  |   mage
@mindspring.com
| Re: And so it begins....... hate to say it but telecom companies are the worst when it comes to overstaffing. i work for a telecom company and 3 quarters of the work force is managers. has to be a 3\1 ratio 3 managers per 1 field tech. the diffreence between earthlink and the company i work for they have yet to realise what they did. but I can see mass layoffs happening in the near future. funny too because some of the managers higher up the chain are not doing their job. so what do they do? they hire 3 more managers that come from verizon. that are going to fix what they think is broken.
I have to sit back and laugh. I have never seen more stupity then just looking up the corporate latter. | |
|   jgkolt Premium join:2004-02-21 Lakewood, OH clubs:
1 edit | sounds like sunrocket firing all over again. Firing the best of the best or the highest paid. Looks like it is time to sell the stock before the ship sinks. -- www.LakeSemaJ.com Help me get free trades.3 free if you sign up, $7 after. PM Me | |
|  |   inteller Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08 Tulsa, OK | Re: sounds like no, it's time to SHORT this stock like nobody's business. -- "WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!" | |
|  |  dentman42
join:2001-10-02 Columbus, OH
·AT&T Midwest
| said by jgkolt : sunrocket firing all over again. Firing the best of the best or the highest paid. Looks like it is time to sell the stock before the ship sinks. Sunlink or EarthRocket? And what's next, TeleLink or EarthBlend?  | |
|  dogo88
join:2001-09-24 Old Bridge, NJ
| TV ad As I sat and watched TV last night on pops an Earthlink Ad and I have to laugh. It was all the employees telling us about how they're not some "backroom server" but real people. Yeah, right. After the bloodbath they're real people overseas. Earthlink just has no shame. | |
|  |  whocares Premium join:2003-07-26 .. | Re: TV ad guess i'll put my stock for sale on ebay opening bif $0.10 lol | |
|  |   Subaru 1-3-2-4 Premium join:2001-05-31 Greenwich, CT clubs: | wow that tv ad is old.. I think I first saw it 2 years ago. | |
|  |  |   Agent_haito
join:2002-09-20 Winston Salem, NC | Re: When it's all said and done... Well said... The business of America is business, but that business needs people to buy the goods/services | |
|  |  |   paulhaskew Unoffical Dominos Spokesman
join:2002-01-10 Vancouver, WA clubs: | Re: When it's all said and done... business? We are a service based not goods based economy... most of the goods" are made overseas... | |
|  |  Network Guy
join:2000-08-25 New York
·Verizon Online DSL
| Companies used to invest in people, now they'll only invest in positive stock ratings.
The real kicker here, at least from the perspective of an IT person like myself, is that more and more processes and policies are being put in place to either push a worker to do more or completely do away with employee involvement. It's as though it's becoming increasingly tough for companies to justify every salary below top management regardless of the load in responsibility and professional worth the underlings take on.
Maybe some day Japan and the US will go at war again and the former will win this time. Apparently it helped humble leaders there and encourage more people-centric economies. It's not like existing dmestic policy fosters anything but greed and increasing gentrification, among oher things. | |
|  |  |   Tamagotchi
@bell.ca | Re: When it's all said and done... Japan would win. (their ninjas have been training in Lead suits, so now a nuclear blast wont slow them down one bit!) | |
|  |  |  |  kerton
join:2003-05-15 Pleasanton, CA | Re: When it's all said and done... Do you really think so? Let's not forget what side Chuck Norris is on. | |
|  xrobertcmx Premium join:2001-06-18 Sterling, VA clubs:  | Just makes Me even happier to be a former customer. | |
|  |  |  |  |   jtudor Xm 60's On 6 Freak Premium,MVM join:2002-12-07 Morganton, NC
| Re: Just makes I don't think he is happy to see the people lose their jobs.
What he is saying is that he is happy to be a former customer, because he gets better service elsewhere, and because EL is going to Hell in an a handbasket, he is even happier to be a former customer. -- Best of luck
"Do, or Do not, there is no try!" Yoda
| |
|  |  |  |  xrobertcmx Premium join:2001-06-18 Sterling, VA clubs:  | Re: Just makes Basically. I just get sick everytime I see another layoff by a company that is mismanaged. -- Retaking our country one election at a time. | |
|  |  |  |  |   cableties Premium join:2005-01-27 Newtown, PA
| Re: Just makes I get sick everytime I read that Wall Street rewards mismanaged companies.
"Yay, they are profitable because they cut the folks that held the fort!" "Yay, they fired half their workforce, so they save money by not paying out benefits!" "Yay, their business model sucks, their executives have ridiculous exit contracts and parachutes, but they have a customer database that can be sold!" | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  ackman
join:2000-10-04 Acworth, GA
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Just makes said by cableties :I get sick everytime I read that Wall Street rewards mismanaged companies. "Yay, they are profitable because they cut the folks that held the fort!" "Yay, they fired half their workforce, so they save money by not paying out benefits!" "Yay, their business model sucks, their executives have ridiculous exit contracts and parachutes, but they have a customer database that can be sold!" so spot-on, best post yet... | |
|  |  |  xrobertcmx Premium join:2001-06-18 Sterling, VA clubs: 
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
·EarthLink
| I don't like watching companies dump employees for a quick return, or to make Wall street happy. In the end it puts them in miserable place when they do finally get back on their feet, pending that is possible. A better fix is general to cut executive pay, remove a few layers of extra management, and maybe not pay out bonuses or perks, especially these days when one executives pay can be equal to or greater then 15 to 20 mid level salaries. What I am happy about is that I, as a customer, am not paying a company, that has done something I can not agree with ethically, for goods or services. I am not happy that the reason for my cancellation (Earthlink selling me services it could not deliver, and the difficulty in obtaining any kind of support beyond what you see in a foamy cartoon) has nothing to do with this. But I can pretend:) -- Retaking our country one election at a time. | |
|  |  boober321
join:2003-07-15 Milwaukee, WI | You and me both. Their service was god awful and the consistently lied through their teeth. | |
|   MrMoody Liberal Capitalist
join:2002-09-03 Smithfield, NC
·Skype
·magicjack.com
| Wall Street quote: New CEO Rola Huff wants more immediate returns. Wall Street analysts are happy with the moves.
Fricken day traders. -- "It is a future in which globalization really does work ... and everybody winds up getting to be part of the third world." - William Gibson | |
|  RayW Premium join:2001-09-01 Layton, UT clubs:
·XMission
| The American Way This reminds me of the 90's. I had a company closed and a 50% layoff at another because we were not making double digit profits. The first company was making a solid 9% + with a steady workload, and the New York office decided that was not good enough, dumped the workload and closed us. The second company was in a known 6-12 month slow down in work, so they dumped half of us (at least it was the least senior and not the ones nearing retirement, but no management), and then panicked because there was not enough people left to do the work a year later, and they are still paying for it eight years later.
That is one reason we have a good chance of speaking Chinese in twenty or so years. The Chinese tend to think of little profits today in exchange for big profits tomorrow, while the U.S. (and maybe the 'West') thinks of "Big profits now! Screw tomorrow." -- I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
|  |   guitarzan Premium join:2004-05-04 Skytop, PA
·epix
| Re: The American Way said by RayW :That is one reason we have a good chance of speaking Chinese in twenty or so years. The Chinese tend to think of little profits today in exchange for big profits tomorrow, while the U.S. (and maybe the 'West') thinks of "Big profits now! Screw tomorrow." There is no 'maybe' about it. The West's business model IS "Big profits now! Screw tomorrow."
Rape, pillage and plunder. Then as sign of total greed, sell customer info to anyone who waves a dollar in front of them.
Wall Street applauds this decision made by Elink. The adage of, misery loves company sounds true.
I feel sorry for the employees losing their jobs. The best they can hope for other than finding new jobs, is for Elink, after these moves to end up in the red.
Where they need to apply for a loan, to bail the company out. I wonder how much applauding Wall Street will be doing then. -- Come on crazy mutant desert men, just because they got Jr. in the car doesn't mean they have Bud on the car. | |
|  |   cork1958 Cork
join:2000-02-26 Fruitport, MI
·Verizon Online DSL
·Charter Pipeline
1 edit | said by RayW :This reminds me of the 90's. I had a company closed and a 50% layoff at another because we were not making double digit profits. The first company was making a solid 9% + with a steady workload, and the New York office decided that was not good enough, dumped the workload and closed us. The second company was in a known 6-12 month slow down in work, so they dumped half of us (at least it was the least senior and not the ones nearing retirement, but no management), and then panicked because there was not enough people left to do the work a year later, and they are still paying for it eight years later. That is one reason we have a good chance of speaking Chinese in twenty or so years. The Chinese tend to think of little profits today in exchange for big profits tomorrow, while the U.S. (and maybe the 'West') thinks of "Big profits now! Screw tomorrow." Yep, That's what it's all about. Live now, pay later!!  | |
|   N10Cities SILENCE I Keel You
join:2002-05-07 Lavaca, AR clubs: | "Maximizing shareholder value"..... I HATE those fricking words!!!!  | |
|  |  qworster
join:2001-11-25 Los Angeles, CA 1 edit | "Next Quarter's Guidance" How about these ones?
Seriously though, the way Earthlink's management thinks is almost as if to say: "Why do we need these programmers? The programs are already written and running". | |
|  |  W5JGV
join:2001-02-03 Natchitoches, LA
·WildBlue
| Re: "Maximizing shareholder value"..... said by N10Cities :I HATE those fricking words!!!! IMHO, the ABSOLUTE Kiss of Death is for a privately held company to go public.
At that point, everything shifts to making the numbers increase for the next quarter so the stockbrokers and financial markets will buy the stock, and to Hell with any real long-term planning for the future.
I've seen it happen twice for companies that I once worked for. What was a good employee-oriented business making double digit profits within a year became a back-stabbing whip-cracking workhouse with one-third the employees and profits down in the low single digits.
Then an attempt was made by (mis)management to "improve the stock position" by dismissing most of the older workers. They were replaced by low-wage employees because, "We're spending far too much on salaries!"
Of course the market thought this was fine.
I really fear for the future of this country. | |
|   Richard B Fur It Up
join:2007-06-22 Portland, OR
·Comcast
| It Is Call Life Deal With It Good lordy you act like the a job is an entitlement in fact if any you came me I dump you on the street in a heart beat because I do want some asshole working for me who think I own them a job. I got news for you the only person who case for your welfare is a good preacher and yourself not government and not business. The purpose of business is to make money for the owner be it sole proprietor like me (in my side business) or stockowners. Business not some god forsaken daddy warbuck money machine to give you a paycheck vacation and healthcare. You guys need to grow up take care you self it may be though mutual self inters by working for somebody or strike out on you own. Frankly I think it should be both, having a regular job and a side business in order if one fails you have the other.
One need to be smart employee, I am very proactive I try to know the business so if thing start to go south I can either put out resume or hang on and hope I win big at eh severance jack pot. I did the latter during the dot com bust. I got a good severance one time and the other I was on unemployment and had to bust my but on EBay to bring extra money to pay the bills. As for EarthLink, it was in the cards for years that EarthLink is going down faster than Pamela Anderson in a porn video. I am not surprised to see what is going on. | |
|  |  the_real_jay
join:2004-02-23 Kalamazoo, MI clubs:
| Re: It Is Call Life Deal With It said by Richard B :Good lordy you act like the a job is an entitlement in fact if any you came me I dump you on the street in a heart beat because I do want some asshole working for me who think I own them a job. I got news for you the only person who case for your welfare is a good preacher and yourself not government and not business. The purpose of business is to make money for the owner be it sole proprietor like me (in my side business) or stockowners. Business not some god forsaken daddy warbuck money machine to give you a paycheck vacation and healthcare. You guys need to grow up take care you self it may be though mutual self inters by working for somebody or strike out on you own. Frankly I think it should be both, having a regular job and a side business in order if one fails you have the other. One need to be smart employee, I am very proactive I try to know the business so if thing start to go south I can either put out resume or hang on and hope I win big at eh severance jack pot. I did the latter during the dot com bust. I got a good severance one time and the other I was on unemployment and had to bust my but on EBay to bring extra money to pay the bills. As for EarthLink, it was in the cards for years that EarthLink is going down faster than Pamela Anderson in a porn video. I am not surprised to see what is going on. Not trying to troll/flame but, is English your first or second language? | |
|  |  |   Richard B Fur It Up
join:2007-06-22 Portland, OR
·Comcast
3 edits | Re: It Is Call Life Deal With It First but damaged. Call it years of incompetence in special education. I am quit intelligent but I am hyperactive and have Dysgrahpia. I tried the remedial education route, it was not working for me. I was burnt so many time I have a dim view of the education establishment. I am surviving and making money I do not care what you think about my grammar . I am done with caring. At my age its about adapting technology and toughing it out till retirement. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |   Richard B Fur It Up
join:2007-06-22 Portland, OR
·Comcast
2 edits | Re: It Is Call Life Deal With It You forgetting than a sole proprietor have the same responsibilities and dreams. They got mouths to feed, want to buy a house some day or send the children to college. Every expense takes money out of the business owners pocket. This includes employees and why I hate the minimum wage. It is a slap in the face to the owner when some politician says sorry your employees are more important that your ________________ (fill in the blank some examples family church home etc.)
I am not saying the EarthLink executives are purer that snow. They mess up big time by not responding to changing market place and placed they bets with the government (Brand X case.) and sadly the core employees feeling the bunt of EarthLink's folly, but thats life. As for the executives just remember Capitalism is a cruel mistress, she will not take folly for long.
ps. I only registers as a sole proprietor because of tax regulation. | |
|  |  |  |   tcp1 Premium join:2000-04-17 Herndon, VA
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
·ViaTalk
·T-Mobile US
·Bandwidth.com
| Re: It Is Call Life Deal With It You "hate the minimum wage"?
Ok, I think I understand most of what you're saying, but you do understand the concept that employees only work for money if that's all you give them - and if that's the case, they owe YOU, the owner, ZERO loyalty, and will do just enough to get by.
I always laugh a bit when CEOs lament that employees have no loyalty these days. Gee, no kiddin'? What in the world would cause an employee to have loyalty? And please don't say something like "the satisfaction of a job well done." The older generation loves to paint us younger workers as whiners and lazy - older workers who had pensions, COULD work at a job for 30 years without getting laid off (don't tell me 'only bad workers get laid off' - NOT TRUE), and lived in a time when things like healthcare wouldn't bankrupt you.
If workers are whinier today, maybe it's because work was more rewarding in your day. Today it's all self-directed 401ks, COBRA, weekend work, 100 hour weeks, and being "on call" 24/7. So what is it we work for besides a paycheck again?
A pat on the back by myself doesn't pay the mortgage or feed my family, and I can take care of that by planting a garden or something. I work to live.
If a business only sees me as a resource to make a profit, I only see them as a means to a paycheck. Employment only by the grace of "work or get fired" will result in employees working only enough to not get fired. This results in cutting corners, inefficiency, and eventually things like negligence and then theft. I'm sorry, but things like that always hurt a small business owner more than paying a reasonable wage for GOOD employees up front.
Generally (and there are always exceptions) less you pay, the lower quality you'll get. You want to pay LESS than minimum wage? Good luck getting any employee who will give a damn and won't rob you blind.
quote: As for the executives just remember Capitalism is a cruel mistress, she will not take folly for long.
You do know that knife cuts both ways, right?
I'm a sole proprietor, and I've had several subcontractors. More or less, you get what you pay for - save for certain very esoteric industries.
A good owner and a good manager does not take the mentality that you do - you want to draw good talent with good incentives. A "you should be lucky I even pay you, take it or leave it" attitude will only get people who can't get a job elsewhere. If you can't afford healthcare and other benefits (I know I can't), you have to be creative and do other things. Non-traditional shifts, for example, that let a person spend more time with their family. (Personally I think "business hours" are pointless in this age.) A compressed schedule. Work-from-home. There are tons of ways to draw good employees without a bottom line hit.
I'll tell you right now that I have, and will, readily leave jobs that don't treat me right and go somewhere else. I have no loyalty to company - only to people. I realize a company will lay me off the minute the books don't add up or a manager decides to change business direction -- why in the WORLD should I ever owe loyalty to a company?
You can argue for any amount of time that wages should be set on the open market; the problem is that people in this country need to work to live - and this fact opens up employment to numerous abuses. A business has more power to abuse the labor market than an individual employee, simply because a business is the entity that has numerous people under its control.
I can't begin to imagine what industry you're in that you'd want to pay people below minimum wage; the only takers I could think would be children/teenagers and illegal immigrants - populations which are already rather abused (or have been in the past) by employers.
Oh. And employers who don't give vacation are just asking for accidents, mysterious "sick days", and domestic problems intruding on work. Yep, lemme guess, "I'll fire 'em if they do that!" Go ahead and do that, pay to retrain, and then repeat the process.
Hire well for a position, hire once for a position, and that employee will do well by you. | |
|  |  |   ASMx4
@mindspring.com
| said by tim_k :said by Richard B : .. I once read a post from a sole proprietor who said if his company didn't make money his employees would take the hit, not him. And then they wonder why the employees don't have the motivation to work as hard as they do. It's one thing to lay off excessive numbers of employees, quite another to lay off your core people. It seems Wall Street never met a layoff that didn't result in a rise in stock price even if the layoff did nothing but shoot the company in the foot. Yet how many times do you see the top managers share the pain? Far too often with the top manager boys club they'll always make out like bandits no matter what happens to the company. Just a nit pick but...There are just as many employers that carry employees long after business showed they should be layed off, motivated by both 'humaneness' and to have them around when business picks back up again.
(yes, engrish is my first lang...I'm just a crappy writer.)  | |
|  |  |   StarBandit
@verizon.net
| Should have seen it coming While it is always regrettable when someone loses their job, Earthlink's core business is dial-up internet. Dial-up was great in 1995 slow by 1999 and pathetic in 2007. Fios is coming out with 100Mbps plans, 2000 times faster. Earthlink and it employees had to see this coming. I used to work at a satellite Internet company so I know the feeling. We got spanked by DSL and cable internet and had to downsize but I wasn't surprised. | |
|  |  |   randyhouston
@covad.net | I couldn't help but laugh This whole thing is starting to remind me of ENRON...every word of it is virtually identical. I've been an Elink customer for 2 years and now can't access my email. I'm shopping for a new DSL provider. | |
|  | |  |
|
|