page: 1 · 2  |
 joebear29
join:2003-07-20
Alabaster, AL | It's great for novice users Bah, I'd especially recommend Firefox to novice users. It is much safer than IE, and tabbed browsing is great.
Besides, I'd think novice users not having Active X controls is a good thing. | |
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loserhead
3 Billion Chinese People Can Be Wrong
join:2004-01-01
Ellijay, GA
| Re: It's great for novice users said by joebear29  :
Bah, I'd especially recommend Firefox to novice users. It is much safer than IE, and tabbed browsing is great.
Besides, I'd think novice users not having Active X controls is a good thing.
HIFIVE
--
read my blog here | |
| | 
elias
Premium,VIP
join:2000-07-24
Miami, FL
clubs: 
| said by joebear29 :
Bah, I'd especially recommend Firefox to novice users. It is much safer than IE, and tabbed browsing is great.
Besides, I'd think novice users not having Active X controls is a good thing.
Yeah, but Novice users want things to work.
When they go to a web page that has an ActiveX control they want to use, and it doesn't work, they'll get pissed, upset, frustrated, etc.
-- Elias
--
Crunching the Midnight Oil | |
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pipdipchip
8 Megabits A Second
Premium
join:2003-12-04
Hanover, MN
| Re: It's great for novice users said by elias :
When they go to a web page that has an ActiveX control they want to use, and it doesn't work, they'll get pissed, upset, frustrated, etc.
-- Elias
Yeah, instead of saying it's the browser's fault they end up just saying "My computer sucks". I hate when one part of a computer doesn't work (i.e. a browser) and they end up saying the whole computer has a problem. LOL. Just wanted to say that.
--
CCNA Training in ProgressA+ Starts Spring 2005 | |
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elias
Premium,VIP
join:2000-07-24
Miami, FL
clubs: | Re: It's great for novice users That's true, too.
Such as "My computer isn't working."
-- Elias
--
Crunching the Midnight Oil | |
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Nightshade
sic semper tyrannis
Premium
join:2002-05-26
Salem, OR | Sounds like one of my business clients when they call me up. 
--
Never Underestimate the Power of Human Stupidy | |
| | 
Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| said by joebear29 :
Besides, I'd think novice users not having Active X controls is a good thing.
Yah, but when they can't play games online, or do stuff at disney.com, or any of the other things that require ActiveX, they have no appreciation for the security issues and will simply consider Firefox an inferior browser.
And you, the meddlesome geek who recommended it, won't be taken so seriously next time.
Been there, done that.
--
Stephen J. Friedl * Security Consultant * Tustin, California USA * my web site | |
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Count Hogula3
John Forged Kerry
Premium
join:2004-07-10
Corona, CA
| Then that's their loss, not yours. If someone isn't willing to listen to your or anyone else's OBVIOUS reason, then they deserve whatever they get. In the meantime, I'm sure there are plenty of novices out there who hear about security problems, especially with IE but don't have a clue as to where to start and would appreciate your advice.
Personally I think Firefox is good enough now that novice users can use it without issue and the most popular addins are easily installed should someone want to install them.
--
»www.scaryjohnkerry.com | »media1.streamtoyou.com/rnc/080304v1.wmv | Don't have it, demand it!»www.theanimenetwork.com | |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| Re: It's great for novice users said by Count Hogula3 :
then they deserve whatever they get.
It's nice that you only get to hang around with smart, savvy users. But they're a vast minority on the interent.
Steve
--
Stephen J. Friedl * Security Consultant * Tustin, California USA * my web site | |
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Count Hogula3
John Forged Kerry
Premium
join:2004-07-10
Corona, CA
| Re: It's great for novice users said by Steve :
said by Count Hogula3 :
then they deserve whatever they get.
It's nice that you only get to hang around with smart, savvy users. But they're a vast minority on the interent.
Steve
I know plenty of net'tards and I can only give them my advice. If they don't and something happens...then they deserve the consequences.
--
»www.scaryjohnkerry.com | »media1.streamtoyou.com/rnc/080304v1.wmv | Don't have it, demand it!»www.theanimenetwork.com | |
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Count Hogula3
John Forged Kerry
Premium
join:2004-07-10
Corona, CA
4 edits | Re: It's great for novice users Snob about it? So now giving advice is being a snob? So THINKING they deserve what they get if they ignore the advice is being a snob.
:sigh: Whatever. You believe whatever you want and do whatever you want to do. In the meantime...READ the posts before replying to them. Nowhere do I mention that novices should be lashed upon, only that they reep what they sow.
--
»www.scaryjohnkerry.com | »media1.streamtoyou.com/rnc/080304v1.wmv | Don't have it, demand it!
»www.theanimenetwork.com | |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| said by Count Hogula3 :
Snob about it? So now giving advice is being a snob? So THINKING they deserve what they get if they ignore the advice is being a snob.
:sigh: Whatever. You believe whatever you want and do whatever you want to do. In the meantime...READ the posts before replying to them. Nowhere do I mention that novices should be lashed upon, only that they reep what they sow.
I did read your post, and read "net'tards" as a term you used, and you also said if they don't follow your advice, that they get what they deserve. Sorry, but if "net'tards" isn't derogatory and snobby, then I'm not sure what is.
Not to mention that your "advice" isn't the be-all end-all on this topic, so again, having that position is snobbery, IMHO. | |
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Count Hogula3
John Forged Kerry
Premium
join:2004-07-10
Corona, CA
4 edits | Re: It's great for novice users That's fine. Still doesn't change the fact they users reap what they sow.
And being so offended about "net'tards"...get over it. I'm sure your post history includes evidence of you being a big meany too guy. Like you calling clrankin's opinion asinine isn't being holier than thou? He's being asinine when he doesn't buy your political rhetoric and you're cooler for it but I'm a big meany for classifying those who ignore advice given to them by someone who knows (no matter who the "expert" happens to be) a net'tard.
I can certainly value Mike's opinion about my comment, but you are a hypocrite. | |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| Re: It's great for novice users Let me break it down for you:
You called people "net'tards" because they don't have your "skill level" or whatever it is you believe you have that you can hold over those not as educated as you, because they won't take your "advice".
I called an individual "asinine" about that persons views. Judging from your avatar, you seem to be nakedly defending those on your side of the political fence and generalizing about users in general, not one individual. That sir is called "stereotyping". If I painted everyone with your viewpoint as asinine, as you did with uneducated users, then I could see the logic.
You didn't though; you chose to try and defend stereotyping users as "net'tards" for not adhering to your golden advice. Simple enough, eh? | |
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Count Hogula3
John Forged Kerry
Premium
join:2004-07-10
Corona, CA | Re: It's great for novice users In your fantasy world sure. But I'm done wasting time on you. Have a great afternoon. | |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| Re: It's great for novice users So that's all you've got? Weak. Of course you won't "waste time" by actually trying to defend your "asinine" stereotyping of the uneducated masses. Pathetic.
Folks, there's no defense for stereotyping in this way. But of course, those who would have asinine avatars like this joker, who don't have shit in the issues department but everything in the "Rush Limbaugh said it was true" department, try to rationalize their positions through insults. I'm a hypocrite, though, so don't listen to me.
Back to topic: less educated users don't need to be called "net'tards", they just need to be enlightened by skeedatl, who apparently has all the answers. | |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| Re: It's great for novice users said by Count Hogula3 :
Just like you aren't stereotyping me for my avatar?!? Now you turn this into another one of your political rants?
ROTFLMAO!
Whatever hypocrite. Happy thread crapping!
Let's see, if I put a Bush avatar with him smoking a bong, would you comment on it? Most likely. That makes you far more of a hypocrite than me.
You have that avatar, so you invite political rantings. Since you must be in the 3rd grade, you probably don't get that.
And again, genuius, stereotying is generalizing about more than one person. (a distinction you must not have learned about yet in 3rd grade). Unless you have multiple personalities, you are one person, right?
And, if I'm such a thread crapper, why do you respond? It must be because you are agitated that someone took the time and effort to call you out on your obvious elitism by calling the less educated "net'tards". I'm sure it just pisses you off to no end that I keep repeating what you said about other people. | |
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Count Hogula3
John Forged Kerry
Premium
join:2004-07-10
Corona, CA
2 edits | said by garagerock :
And again, genuius, stereotying is generalizing about more than one person. (a distinction you must not have learned about yet in 3rd grade). Unless you have multiple personalities, you are one person, right?
I must have misread it when you threw me in with all Rush Limbaugh fans (whatever Rush Limbaugh as to do with Firefox I'll never know). And you responded to my post whining about "net'tard" not the other way around. But whatever. You saw my avatar and entered into another one of your political rants. Get over my avatar and save your political rants for another forum.
Meanwhile I stand by my original post...which is if someone ignores the suggestions of people familiar with their situation then they DESERVE the result and only THEY are to blame for it. Anyone who doesn't like it can KMA.
--
»www.scaryjohnkerry.com | »media1.streamtoyou.com/rnc/080304v1.wmv | Don't have it, demand it!
»www.theanimenetwork.com | |
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feek
join:2002-01-23
Philadelphia, PA | you are a huge nerd | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
 ·Cox HSI
 ·Speakeasy
| said by Steve :
And you, the meddlesome geek who recommended it, won't be taken so seriously next time.
Damn... You mean that's an acceptable way to get people to stop bugging me for computer help?
I mean, it's bad enough when people ask me Windows questions and I have to tell them, "look, I'm a Unix weenie. I may not be your best resource." Invariably, that gets a response like, "what's Unix?"
-tom
--
"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
| | 
orion940
Paralyzed By Confusion
Premium
join:2001-12-23
Windsor, CT
·AT&T Yahoo
| I've used it for a while now, I forget when I started.
I like it and I'm willing to work with handling the extensions, looking for all that stuff, etc. However, it's not an out of the box product yet. I'd be hard presssed to recommend it for general use. There are sites that, because of M$ standards and the rest of the world's standards, only work with IE. But that's not a Firefox issue, that's a site issue. Folks have to break away from the IE mind set.
The extensions make Firefox nice, the idea is great, only load the code that you will use. But even being a user for a while, I have trouble with some of the extensions. Part of it is the API changes and thus the interface changes, part of it is the nature of the extensions.
I think the extension authors need to focus on consistancy in user interface from release to release of the extension and focus on keeping it simple. The one extension I like a lot but have the biggest problem with is TBE, interface constantly changes and there's just too much in it.
Otherwise, I support the product and have switched over to Firefox, Thunderbird and Filezilla.
O. | |
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disorder
Useful Idiot
Premium
join:2003-04-16
Alexandria, VA
clubs: | Besides it's alot better than IE with less security holes and alot user-friendly. Also renders websites alot faster. | |
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cmptrblder
join:2001-01-16
Altoona, PA | MICROCRAP owns the patent on tabbed browsing don't they?  | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| ack! I was going to read that article, but it didn't load properly in IE!
Anyway, who cares if the end-user actually knows about what ActiveX is? How does ignorance stop the threat?
--
Statistical correlation need not imply causation. | |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
| Re: Good points, but... said by quanta :
but I don't see the reason to not start encouraging mass use of it at this point.
... because the people who do the recommending typically are the ones who get to do the supporting, and many of us are so weary from supporing stuff that's not our fault (e.g., spyware infections), that adding new stuff to the mix is really unappealing.
Steve
--
Stephen J. Friedl * Security Consultant * Tustin, California USA * my web site | |
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keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB | If Mozzila doesn't think its product is ready to leave beta, what does that say?
And what are the liability implications of recommending a test version of a product for production use? | |
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35375105
Premium
join:2002-11-20
127.0.0.1 | Re: Pitching to developers 3 | |
| | 
sorne guy
@milwwi.ameritech | eveything is "beta software"
if software was "final" it wouldn't need a patch every 2 weeks
but as "beta" software, at least with firefox you get it for free without paying 100 bucks for an os | |
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keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
| 1. I just want to clarify some industry terms.
Software does not go from "beta" to "final version".
Software usually goes from "beta" to "production release", "general release" or "gold release".
In the case of MS Windows, sofware goes from "beta" to "release candidate" to "general release". (The bigger and more complex the product, and the range of hardware it will be run on, the more layers of testing that project managers will usually select.)
2. A "final version" is what happens when software is "stabilized". It is a way of saying a product is about to become obsolete and no more work will be done on it.
3. The alternative to beta software is not just software that costs money.
For example this freeware has production releases:
- web browser Opera,
- Adobe Acrobat Player,
- RealPlayer,
- ZoneAlarm,
and the list goes on.
4. A product is in beta for one reason: its vendor doesn't feel it is ready for use on production systems or computers that people count on.
Mozilla doesn't feel Firefox is to a point where it can say it will work reasonably well, even to the slack standards of today's software industry.
Why they feel this way is not apparent to me, but they know more about the product and its internals than do any of us.
Since I don't see anything visible, I assume it must have some gaping huge security hole, but that is just a guess. It could be anything.
--
(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC) | |
| dchillis
join:2003-07-28
Mentone, CA |  Fire Fox Rocks
| |
| | keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA
 ·Teliax VOIP
 ·WestPAnet Inc.
·WestPAnet Inc. CA..
| Re: Fire Fox Rocks I have been using Mozilla/Firefoxx all of em for a while.
Problem is occasionally I still have to open internet explorer. Active X is a good example but other things like Java problems, installing flash plug in and other things are just buggy or not supported.
Example. I have 2 computers and the latest FireFox on both. Flash installed and works fine with one but not the other. Same operating system, cannot find the difference, but if I did not feel like putting the time into finding out why my flash does not work then imagine how FireFox will compare to IE where it just works.
I love the features FireFox has and really do not like using Explorer (and rarely do) but FireFox is not ready to go against IE, it can't. | |
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Nightshade
sic semper tyrannis
Premium
join:2002-05-26
Salem, OR
| Re: Fire Fox Rocks Not right now it can't,
However when Firefox does go gold, it will be ready to take on IE and it will be quite the browser war.
Heck, may make the last one look like a skirimish.
--
Never Underestimate the Power of Human Stupidy | |
| 
veloct
Premium
join:2003-01-21
Moosup, CT | LOL All of it is just someone's opinion. Everybody thinks they know everything or are an "expert" of some sort. If you like it, use it. Simple.
--
"Anger is a gift" | |
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Steve
I'm a PC, so shut up
Consultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
1 edit | Re: LOL said by veloct :
All of it is just someone's opinion.
Well, sure, but not all opinions are equally meritorious.
It's one thing to not reach the same conclusion as somebody else, but it looks like you've blown right by a long list of specific, detailed issues with "it's just an opinion".
He is not suggesting that you should not use Firefox, he is suggesting that recommending it to others - those not as savvy as us - might not be the best approach. This means that "whether you like it or not" isn't really part of the question, now is it?
I guess some opinions are less meritorious than others too.
Steve
--
Stephen J. Friedl * Security Consultant * Tustin, California USA * my web site | |
| | | Battlespire
join:2002-08-11
Edmundston, NB | I hope... I hope the popularity of FireFox will result in the death of ActiveX like SUN's did with javavm. We need something to crush .NET to replace it with C and C++ once and for all or remove the VB part of it. | |
| | 
Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
Premium,MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state
| Re: I hope... said by Battlespire :
I hope the popularity of FireFox will result in the death of ActiveX like SUN's did with javavm. We need something to crush .NET to replace it with C and C++ once and for all or remove the VB part of it.
Sun's Java is actually more buggy and cumbersome then MS's java and most java applications actually run slower on it.
As for .net, have you ever programmed with .net? Have you ever designed any applications one in java and then one in .net or C#? .net and C# are very robust and once yopu learn their inner workings can come of great use.
But you seem to be part of the "if MS makes it it must be bad crowd"
--
Forum Posts:5307 | |
| | | Battlespire
join:2002-08-11
Edmundston, NB
| Re: I hope... Cumbersome, slow?, yes.
Buggy?, are you talking about security issues? because i saw there was more problems with JavaVM than of SUN's.
Why Cisco only use the Sun's one?
I had horrors with Basic and Visual Basic that crashed all the time and that you'd have to get (pay) the next version to get bugs fixed. Why all the sudden, that will change? (miracles)
So, is .net and c# compatible with linux?
Please don't tell me who i am or in what group i am, you don't know me. | |
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keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB | quote:
We need something to crush .NET to replace it with C and C++ once and for all or remove the VB part of it.
COBOL Forever | |
| 
Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| Firefox needs a lot of work I love the concept and design of Firefox and I love the concept of extensions, but it is way too buggy for use for anything but casual browsing.
It has a tendancy to crash for no reason what-so-ever. For any sites where a crash would be more than just an annoyance (like ordering things online, banking, etc) I tend to use another browser.
--
The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
| | 
koitsu
Premium
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
| Re: Firefox needs a lot of work I couldn't agree more. My "bugs" file is continually growing, and the number of FF/Moz bugs seems to be growing as well.
This isn't necessarily a "core problem with FF/Moz", but rather a major problem with the open-source model itself. You have a bunch of "mysterious" program authors who prioritise things based upon whatever mood they're in at the time -- there's no deadline, there's no if-i-dont-fix-this-i-cant-put-food-on-the-table-for-my-family, there's no OBLIGATION. Instead, the obligation is "stfu or send us patches".
One MAJOR key point that was overstepped in Kalsey's article in question is how end-users play a role in browser development and debugging. How can you EXPECT the average Internet user to submit "problems" (bugs) they find with FF/Moz via Bugzilla? If they think the terminology is tedious, wait until they try to fill out a Bugzilla bug report...
The problem, as I mentioned, stems from the focus and mentality of the average open-source developer. Until this hurdle can be overcome, we will continue to see these kinds-of problems in all software -- not just FF/Moz.
It's all about placing, acknowleding, and accepting responsibility for something you take part in (meaning, the developers, not necessarily the end-users).
And just for the record: I *AM* an open-source developer. I maintain a slew of FreeBSD ports, and therefore maintain other peoples' code so-to-speak. For my OWN work, however, I am a *VERY* hard-core closed-source advocate. Bugs in MY software are MY problem and MY responsibility to fix: not yours. It's also my responsibility to do QA. Not to put myself up on a pedestal, but if more open-source devs thought this way, we'd have a lot more being accomplished in the world of open-source today.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977. | |
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subcultured
Premium
join:2001-08-21
Jamaica Plain, MA
| Re: Firefox needs a lot of work said by koitsu :
This isn't necessarily a "core problem with FF/Moz", but rather a major problem with the open-source model itself. You have a bunch of "mysterious" program authors
careful - the following link is very "mysterious"!
»www.mozilla.org/owners.html
quote:
who prioritise things based upon whatever mood they're in at the time
wrong again. »www.mozilla.org/hacking/code-review-faq.html
and when was the last time your request for a new feature or security patch was prioritized by microsoft?
quote:
-- there's no deadline, there's no if-i-dont-fix-this-i-cant-put-food-on-the-table-for-my-family, there's no OBLIGATION.
and... this is supposed to lead to higher-quality code?! somebody hasn't taken any project management courses...
quote:
One MAJOR key point that was overstepped in Kalsey's article in question is how end-users play a role in browser development and debugging. How can you EXPECT the average Internet user to submit "problems" (bugs) they find with FF/Moz via Bugzilla? If they think the terminology is tedious, wait until they try to fill out a Bugzilla bug report...
funny, didn't you mention the ever-increasing list of bugs on bugzilla? obviously, there are enough people out there that have figured it out....
quote:
The problem, as I mentioned, stems from the focus and mentality of the average open-source developer.
pure FUD, whether it's coming from an above-average "open-source" developer or not.
--
Verum Ipsum Factum | |
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keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB | Re: Firefox needs a lot of work Windows XP SP2. | |
| 
dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Uh huh Not all ActiveX is bad... »housecall.trendmicro.com/
Not having something that is used for good is...well, bad.
As for Firefox, I will never use a Mozilla product. Just as I will never use several other products, *cough* Mac *cough* *cough* Ford *cough* etc...
Puts on Nomex suit...
--
Nuke 'em all, let God sort 'em out. | |
| | 
dchrsf
DD
join:2003-08-28
Palm Harbor, FL | Re: Uh huh When is 1.00 coming out?! thought it was supposed to be out by now:( | |
| 
Evil_Icon
Digital Pimp
join:2003-02-24
Bossier City, LA | Go firefox Firefox is great.Been usingin it a while now.
--
More upload please! | |
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keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB | Re: Go firefox If it is so good, why is it still in beta?
What does Mozzila, its maker, know that you do not know? | |
| | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: Go firefox said by keith2468 :
If it is so good, why is it still in beta?
There is such a thing as quality BETA software...
BETA != BAD... Beta simply means that the developer is not ready, based on the team's opinion, to commit the software as a major release version.
quote:
What does Mozzila, its maker, know that you do not know?
Considering that the code and all the bug reports are publically available, nothing is hidden.
--
No Confidence 2004
"Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race." - Einstein | |
| 
trparky
Bite My Shiny Metal Ass
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
clubs:
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| Extensions....Not Powerful Enough! I understand that FireFox has the ability to make extensions, but the extension API is not jet powerful enough.
Just look at RoboForm for instance, their FireFox/Mozilla toolbar is giant kludge. They really had to hack around to make it work in FireFox/Mozilla.
--
WedgeAntilles250
Tom's Rant | |
| Meeble
join:2002-09-19
Champaign, IL
| he forgot his own point apparently it shouldn't be a big deal for this guy to put the icon on his blog since according to him half the populace using the internet is too stupid to find his blog anyhow without a direct link on their desktop to it  | |
| 
knightmb
Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·AT&T DSL Service
| mainstream? I thought it was already, hehe I've converted my family and entire company over to FireFox. Guess how many spyware/virus problems we've had at work after making everyone use FireFox? Zero, that's right zero. Everything from tech clueless saleman to uber coders love it. I think it's only a matter of time before more and more people use it, regardless of how "newbie" friendly it is.
Just my $0.02 | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA | Re: mainstream? I thought it was already, hehe Why do people think a browser will protect them from viruses? 
--
Nuke 'em all, let God sort 'em out. | |
| | | Beeper
Part Of The Problem
join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs:
| Re: mainstream? I thought it was already, hehe said by dadkins :
Why do people think a browser will protect them from viruses?
Some of them think the Pill prevents STD's.
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Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism. | |
| | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| I don't know where he's getting virus problems from, but he is correct about Spyware installing via IE. I just cleaned up a user whose computer hadn't been updated (usually another admin's responsibility) and the Spyware had installed through a hole in IE.
However, if he patched his users, the poster wouldn't have that problem.
--
No Confidence 2004
"Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race." - Einstein | |
| B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| But What About.... Mozilla?
I don't agree with everything he wrote, but I could NOT agree more with this:
quote:
The point is simply that the Mozilla Foundation shouldn’t be aggressively marketing a product before it is ready.
What they should be aggressively marketing is their real shipping product, the Mozilla suite. It just works.
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
| | 
beeman65
join:2001-07-23
Mckeesport, PA
| Re: But What About.... Mozilla? said by B :
The point is simply that the Mozilla Foundation shouldn’t be aggressively marketing a product before it is ready.
I think they realize that its Firefox that is/will be directly competing with IE, so the're pushing that.
--
**Saving the world, one post at a time** | |
| | | 
Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| Re: But What About.... Mozilla? said by beeman65 :
I think they realize that its Firefox that is/will be directly competing with IE, so the're pushing that.
Interesting...marketing a beta project, where have I heard of that before...I seem to remember that being a bad thing....oh yes I see, it's ok cause it's free??
--
We don't report the news, WE ARE THE NEWS!-a friendly message from the media | |
| |
beeman65
join:2001-07-23
Mckeesport, PA
| I think people aren't used to a browser being marketed. With IE, its always been integrated with Windows, so if you marketed Windows you were essentially marketing IE.
Also, I'd rather take Firefox 1.0 over IE 1.0. IMO, a 'beta' browser than IE's 6th try with two service packs.
--
**Saving the world, one post at a time** | |
| 
Thran
join:2002-01-05
Hibbing, MN | Firefox Personally I like it better then internet exploiter. I dont get popups, its very comparible to IE and it feels smoother. | |
| 
antiphishing
Phishing Scam Terminator
Premium
join:2004-06-09
Wilkes Barre, PA
| transference ____________________________________________________________
When you are dealing with understanding the requirements of a user, need to be very careful not to make assumptions about them. The easiest and most common assumption is that the user is in some ways similar to you or to other people you know. That’s because it’s a lot easier to identify with people with whom you have something in common
___________________________________________________________
I would agree with Adam Kalsey opinion on transference and how it relates to people's wrong perception towards other computers users beliefs, opinions, or ideas.
--
Dslreports.com Forum No-Spin zone starts here.
»www.antihotmail.com
spammers_are_scumbags@antihotmail.com | |
| 
CyberMuZ
join:2003-09-17
Glendale, CA
| Balance on the net The thing to consider here is that Firefox is a step that needs to be taken. Here are some points to consider.
First, it will bring software back to being simply a client and not part of the operating system. Firefox gets corrupted, no problem, export preferences, remove and re-install. DONE!
Second, it is faster, more secure and simpler to operate.
In it's fledgling state, WE as internet power users needs to use judgement in recommending it to users who won't freak out if a page doesn't load right. Educate the users. Explain to them using IE to augment Firefox is fine. Install IE View extension, if the page doesn't load right, open only that page in IE with two clicks of a mouse, EASY!
Finally, if it doesn't work for an end-user that really wanted it then freaked out calling you. Charge for a house call. More money for you to buy parts with!
There are pros and cons to everything! Have balance. | |
| |
See 6 replies to this post | |
Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| Timewarp I can't wait 'till 3 years from now when everyone here is saying Firefox sucks and everyone should be using {insert next geek trend here}. Hopefully someone will use the word Bomb-diggity.
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We don't report the news, WE ARE THE NEWS!-a friendly message from the media | |
|
keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
| Not Even Mozzila Will Stand Behind It On principle beta products should never be recommended for production use.
If the products own vendor says the product is not ready for prime time -- which is what the beta designation means -- then who are we on the outside to say they are wrong?
Recommending beta software for production or the general public is irresponsible.
In the case of making a public recommendation or endorsement, it could get someone sued. (Mozzila has called it a beta, so it cannot be sued.)
If people want to recommend something other than MSIE, there are several products that have successfully made it out of beta. Recommend one of those.
--
(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC) | |
| | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: Not Even Mozzila Will Stand Behind It said by keith2468 :
In the case of making a public recommendation or endorsement, it could get someone sued. (Mozzila has called it a beta, so it cannot be sued.)
Actually, that depends...
And MOZILLA (spell it right) can not be sued, regardless of whether or not their software is BETA or production. Hell, you can't even sue Microsoft for problems in their PRODUCTION software. Its called liability limitation and a majority of software vendors/authors do it, regardless of BETA or production status...
So avoiding a lawsuit had nothing to do with why Firefox is still in Beta...
--
No Confidence 2004
"Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race." - Einstein | |
| 
sircharlz
join:2003-03-02
Hilton Head Island, SC
| hmmmm I have been using ie since version 2 and have never had any problems. Need tabs? Use »www.myie2.com .... Now that is an AWESOME front-end to IE.
I personally thought firefox was a fine browser but I don't have time to worry about sites not working and whatnot. IE works fine.
my .02¢ | |
| | 
WFO
Premium
join:2001-08-27
San Ramon, CA
| Re: hmmmm Just thought I'd point out that "Maximum PC" has been recommending Firefox to it's readers and supplying it on CD for at least 4 months. The October issue of PC world is also recommending it to readers. Those that shell out $7-$10 for a computer magazine probably aren't "average users" though. They have no reservations about it despite it's "beta" status.;) | |
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Firefox to go Mainstream?
