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Five More Markets Get Verizon LTE Tomorrow
With LTE Expansion in Atlanta, Houston and Spokane
by Karl Bode Wednesday 18-Jan-2012 tags: business · wireless · bandwidth · Verizon · Verizon Wireless Broadband · wireless
Verizon today announced that the company will be pushing their shiny new LTE network into five additional markets tomorrow. According to big red, the company will be turning on LTE in the smaller markets of Glens Falls and Utica, N.Y.; Lawton, Okla.; and Brownsville and McAllen, Texas. Verizon says they're also expanding existing LTE coverage in three markets: Atlanta, Houston and Spokane. "As we enter 2012, Verizon’s 4G LTE network remains the largest by far in the United States, and we continue to grow the network and bring Verizon’s unparalleled 4G LTE services to more and more people," says Verizon CTO David Small. Hopefully that continued progress comes with fewer massive LTE outages in 2012.

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EvelKub
Kitty is crazy
Premium
join:2002-03-17
Phoenix, AZ

Fixes completed?

I'm wondering if the regionalization of their backend equipment has been completed. I've been lucky enough to keep my 4G all day for the first time since the last outage in December today after an unofficial official upgrade on my Razr firmware and a reset of the sim card.

thegeek
Premium
join:2008-02-21
united state
kudos:1

KC Expansion Needed

Hopefully there is an expansion in the Kansas City market soon. My house is like 2 miles from coverage right now. 3G is strong here though.
NWOhio

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

LTE

They are the largest pre-LTE network in the country only because a select few are offering. TMO is the only smart one to upgrade what they have and then move to the LTE-A when its a standard. Cellco is just going to spend more money by doing this and then they'll wait until the last minute to upgrade.

trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1

Re: LTE

TMobile has the advantage of using the GSM standard that has room for upgrade. Verizon is using CDMA which has left them with not much of a choice other than going LTE to provide faster data speeds.
NWOhio

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

Re: LTE

CDMA has room for upgrade. They can use EVDO-B which they did NOT elect to use. Instead they only used EVDO-A.
brad

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

Re: LTE

said by NWOhio:

CDMA has room for upgrade. They can use EVDO-B which they did NOT elect to use. Instead they only used EVDO-A.

Upgrading a CDMA network would be completely idiotic. It's a complete dead end.
NWOhio

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

Re: LTE

they could have done it YEARS ago. Instead Cellco decided NOT to. Which they're going to end up doing again. They're spending this money now only in 10 years will have to reupgrade due to the technology will be worthless.
brad

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

Re: LTE

said by NWOhio:

they could have done it YEARS ago. Instead Cellco decided NOT to. Which they're going to end up doing again. They're spending this money now only in 10 years will have to reupgrade due to the technology will be worthless.

Still doesn't make sense to upgrade an existing CDMA network. It was a dead end technology even back then. Every carrier has upgrade cycles but it also has to make sense to do the upgrade and upgrading from LTE to LTE Advanced will be a natural progression and which all carriers using LTE will do.
NWOhio

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

Re: LTE

CDMA was NOT dead back then. There was NOTHING to replace it except for Wi-Max that Sprint was trying to do but gave up on it due to they ran out of cash- the same as they're going to do before they rebuild their network countless times.

It would have made more since to upgrade to B and then to LTE-A instead of doing LTE and then LTE- A in 3 - 5 years.

And not all carriers will do it. TMO-USA is the only company NOT setting up an LTE network yet.
brad

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

1 edit

Re: LTE

said by NWOhio:

CDMA was NOT dead back then.

TMO-USA is the only company NOT setting up an LTE network yet.

It *WAS* a dead end even back then. Upgrading to B and then LTE Advanced would be a completely idiotic upgrade path.

They cannot setup an LTE network when they don't have spectrum to do so. If you don't think they'll be upgrading to LTE when and if they're able to come up with the appropriate spectrum you're a complete fool.
iFail 5G

join:2011-08-03
said by NWOhio:

CDMA was NOT dead back then. There was NOTHING to replace it except for Wi-Max that Sprint was trying to do but gave up on it due to they ran out of cash- the same as they're going to do before they rebuild their network countless times.

It would have made more since to upgrade to B and then to LTE-A instead of doing LTE and then LTE- A in 3 - 5 years.

And not all carriers will do it. TMO-USA is the only company NOT setting up an LTE network yet.

You realize Rev. B is a fairly new technology... It wasn't available *back then*, and only 2 years ago Verizon's 3G network was outperforming all the UMTS networks here...

The LTE to LTE-A won't be a difficult transition, will NOT be any different than migrating to different cat. of HSPA+.

MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
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Re: LTE

Agreed, LTE to LTE-A is much easier than EVDO Rev A or B to LTE or LTE A, they have to make the huge technology shift at some point and they choose to jump straight to LTE and skip a step of upgrades
the choices they hard were

Evdo A -> Evdo B -> LTE -> LTE A
or Evdo A -> LTE -> LTE A

Doesn't take much though to realise the one with less steps is cheaper, plus if they delayed the upgrade to LTE they would wind up being a competitive disadvantage while they used slow Rev B and they would be playing catch up, instead of the position they are in now, the industry leader.

Somnambul33t
L33t.
Premium
join:2002-12-05
Blackwood, NJ
said by NWOhio:

they could have done it YEARS ago. Instead Cellco decided NOT to. Which they're going to end up doing again. They're spending this money now only in 10 years will have to reupgrade due to the technology will be worthless.

at the rate technology, and smartphones in general, are progressing they'll need a new technology in 10 years regardless of what they're deploying now. in 10 years of cell service we've gone from analogue to 30mbps+ LTE. do you have any idea what the next 10 years will bring?

tiger72
SexaT duorP
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Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US

1 edit

Re: LTE

said by Somnambul33t:

said by NWOhio:

they could have done it YEARS ago. Instead Cellco decided NOT to. Which they're going to end up doing again. They're spending this money now only in 10 years will have to reupgrade due to the technology will be worthless.

at the rate technology, and smartphones in general, are progressing they'll need a new technology in 10 years regardless of what they're deploying now. in 10 years of cell service we've gone from analogue to 30mbps+ LTE. do you have any idea what the next 10 years will bring?

the technology is slowing. In fact, LTE is a prime example of that. It expressly relies on combining multiple carriers (kinda like HSPA+) and MIMO (which has been around for years - also part of the HSPA+ spec) to achieve higher data rates. Things have reached a point where the technology is no longer the barrier - spectrum is.
said by iFail 5G:

T-Mobile is the only carrier here waiting to go to LTE. And quite frankly is because they really don't have much of a choice right now due to their financial situation. But they are by far the smallest of the 4, and have the least amount of users on a 3G capable smartphone at ONLY 10 million of their small 33ish million subs and the great majority of their network on GSM/GPRS still.

Their financial situation isn't the primary factor. Their spectrum position is. T-Mobile is still making money, and they can go pull a sprint and sell their towers for a few $bil in cash. Cash is easy to come by. Spectrum is not.

Instead of upgrading and upgrading HSPA+, it makes sense to go to LTE. Now for T-Mobile, the company where only 1/3 of the subscribers are on smartphones, it makes sense to stay on HSPA+ and continue on.

You do realize that upgrades to HSPA+ can be mirrored on LTE, yes? IE most back-end upgrades that are necessary to deploy LTE can be used on HSPA+ to improve HSPA+ performance. In fact, T-Mobile has already implemented some of those upgrades. This means that when T-Mobile is ready to deploy LTE the improvements made to their HSPA+ network save them money on deploying an LTE network. Since they're on the GSM track, LTE was (and continues to be) designed to work hand-in-hand with HSPA+. Feel free to read the 3gpp docs yourself. FYI: the 3gpp is the body that created both HSPA+ and LTE, and they are the same body which are still releasing upgrades simultaneously for HSPA+ and LTE.

For carriers like VZW and AT&T with capacity constraints it makes more sense to go straight to LTE NOW. There is no significant difference between upgrading from LTE now and then later on going LTE-A vs. wasting money replacing needed equipment that AT&T would have to do going HSPA+ 84 which is the most competitive standard to what VZW and AT&T are deploying in LTE.

hahaha right. Well, I think I covered how silly it is to believe that upgrades to HSPA+ are not beneficial to LTE, but as for capacity constraints, VZW didn't deploy LTE because of a lack of capacity. They deployed LTE because WiMax sucks and has a tiny ecosystem, and EvDO's upgrade path is a bandaid at best. In the face of ATT and TMO deploying 7.2HSPA, 21mbps HSPA+, and in TMO's case 42mbps HSPA+, Verizon needed to compete with speeds. Just a year ago the average ATT customer would have been ecstatic to get 1mbps, so Verizon was still an option.
In that year ATT and TMO deployed HSPA+ and customer speed expectations increased quite rapidly. VZW saw the writing on the wall. It was LTE or nothing.

If Verizon wanted to be ridiculous and try and milk a *dead* technology, they could have EASILY deployed EVDO Rev. B, and deployed the software only aspects of it, which yield up to 9.3mbit/s, or even hardware for bonded carriers and near the same as HSPA 14.4.

Except that HSPA 14.4 was a minor revision for ATT and still slower than T-Mobile's HSPA+ when TMO began going past 7.2HSPA. Factor in the fact that beyond 9mbps there was nothing to compete with 21mbps HSPA+ that TMO and ATT rolled out, much less 42mbps HSPA+ that T-Mobile had pretty clearly set their sights on, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a 9mbps *max* will not compete with 42mbps. There was no choice to make. It was "LTE is the only possible option for us to compete on speed with ATT, TMO, and even Sprint".

But the significant advantages LTE offers over the highest speed HSPA+ rev. in the US are, MIMO which offers much better edge of cell speeds and better capacity, capability of also easily being upgraded to support and adapt to different spectrum constraints like Metro PCS running 1.4mhz slices of it, something you can't do with HSPA.

What significant advantages? You do realize that the "highest speed HSPA+ rev" incorporates MIMO, right? 84mbps HSPA+ is explicitly defined as MIMO+DC. In fact, T-Mobile is only at Rev 7 right now (42mbps). Revision 8 is MIMO+DC. (84mbps). Rev 9 is MIMO+MC for up to 168mbps. Mind you, these are the same gimmicks that LTE uses for its higher speeds. 64QAM. MIMO. dual carriers. multiple carriers. Rel 11 uses up to 8 non-contiguous carriers for 40mhz of spectrum. This is also part of the LTE spec.

4gAmericas (used to be 3gamericas) has a pretty good writeup on the specs, again if you're actually open to the information.
»www.4gamericas.org/documents/4G%···011x.pdf

Clearly AT&T see's no value in wasting time going above HSPA+ 14.4 for the majority of their network.

ATT also thought it would be a great idea to let their network go to shit for 3 years until 2 months before they gave up iPhone exclusivity, and then try buying T-Mobile, so... yeah...

For T-Mobile, no need to rush because their data demand isn't *that* high. But for the two big carriers, LTE gives them a fresh network and clear spectrum to deploy higher speed data services.

I can agree with this though.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara
brad

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
said by NWOhio:

They are the largest pre-LTE network in the country only because a select few are offering. TMO is the only smart one to upgrade what they have and then move to the LTE-A when its a standard. Cellco is just going to spend more money by doing this and then they'll wait until the last minute to upgrade.

LTE not pre-LTE.
NWOhio

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

Re: LTE

ITU states it's not even 4G.
brad

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

Re: LTE

said by NWOhio:

ITU states it's not even 4G.

And your point is? Doesn't change what I said.
NWOhio

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

Re: LTE

-----
iFail 5G

join:2011-08-03
said by NWOhio:

They are the largest pre-LTE network in the country only because a select few are offering. TMO is the only smart one to upgrade what they have and then move to the LTE-A when its a standard. Cellco is just going to spend more money by doing this and then they'll wait until the last minute to upgrade.

The only reason T-Mobile is continuing to cheaply upgrade is because they don't have a choice...

tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US

Re: LTE

said by iFail 5G:

said by NWOhio:

They are the largest pre-LTE network in the country only because a select few are offering. TMO is the only smart one to upgrade what they have and then move to the LTE-A when its a standard. Cellco is just going to spend more money by doing this and then they'll wait until the last minute to upgrade.

The only reason T-Mobile is continuing to cheaply upgrade is because they don't have a choice...

*yawn*
Right.

Forgoing HSPA+ upgrades to switch to LTE makes a lot of sense.

CDMA had nowhere to go, so it makes sense for VZW and Sprint to grasp for LTE.

For carriers with HSPA+, it makes more sense to wait out for LTE-Advanced.

Or maybe you can elaborate on precisely what advantages an LTE upgrade would provide over a similar 3gpp rel configuration of HSPA+ using the same amount of spectrum?

I'm quite curious.
--
"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara
iFail 5G

join:2011-08-03

Re: LTE

said by tiger72:

said by iFail 5G:

said by NWOhio:

They are the largest pre-LTE network in the country only because a select few are offering. TMO is the only smart one to upgrade what they have and then move to the LTE-A when its a standard. Cellco is just going to spend more money by doing this and then they'll wait until the last minute to upgrade.

The only reason T-Mobile is continuing to cheaply upgrade is because they don't have a choice...

*yawn*
Right.

Forgoing HSPA+ upgrades to switch to LTE makes a lot of sense.

CDMA had nowhere to go, so it makes sense for VZW and Sprint to grasp for LTE.

For carriers with HSPA+, it makes more sense to wait out for LTE-Advanced.

Or maybe you can elaborate on precisely what advantages an LTE upgrade would provide over a similar 3gpp rel configuration of HSPA+ using the same amount of spectrum?

I'm quite curious.

T-Mobile is the only carrier here waiting to go to LTE. And quite frankly is because they really don't have much of a choice right now due to their financial situation. But they are by far the smallest of the 4, and have the least amount of users on a 3G capable smartphone at ONLY 10 million of their small 33ish million subs and the great majority of their network on GSM/GPRS still.

Instead of upgrading and upgrading HSPA+, it makes sense to go to LTE. Now for T-Mobile, the company where only 1/3 of the subscribers are on smartphones, it makes sense to stay on HSPA+ and continue on.

For carriers like VZW and AT&T with capacity constraints it makes more sense to go straight to LTE NOW. There is no significant difference between upgrading from LTE now and then later on going LTE-A vs. wasting money replacing needed equipment that AT&T would have to do going HSPA+ 84 which is the most competitive standard to what VZW and AT&T are deploying in LTE.

If Verizon wanted to be ridiculous and try and milk a *dead* technology, they could have EASILY deployed EVDO Rev. B, and deployed the software only aspects of it, which yield up to 9.3mbit/s, or even hardware for bonded carriers and near the same as HSPA 14.4.

But the significant advantages LTE offers over the highest speed HSPA+ rev. in the US are, MIMO which offers much better edge of cell speeds and better capacity, capability of also easily being upgraded to support and adapt to different spectrum constraints like Metro PCS running 1.4mhz slices of it, something you can't do with HSPA.

Clearly AT&T see's no value in wasting time going above HSPA+ 14.4 for the majority of their network.

For T-Mobile, no need to rush because their data demand isn't *that* high. But for the two big carriers, LTE gives them a fresh network and clear spectrum to deploy higher speed data services.

BF69
Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
said by NWOhio:

They are the largest pre-LTE network in the country only because a select few are offering. TMO is the only smart one to upgrade what they have and then move to the LTE-A when its a standard. Cellco is just going to spend more money by doing this and then they'll wait until the last minute to upgrade.

I don't want to hear about t-mobile and how great they are. Any company that doesn't see fit to offer ANY service to my area let alone 4G, 3G, 2G or whatever can go fuck themsleves.

bladez

@myvzw.com

lte

hate to break it to you but it cost more to upgrade from 3g to lte-a than it does from lte to lte-a. hspa+ cuases more congestion than lte does also so its harder to maintain the speeds that's at the lower end of lte using hspa+. the only thing hspa+ does have is better battery life and that will change.

ztmike
Mark for moderation
Premium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN

Galaxy Nexus

Just bought a Galaxy Nexus yesterday..love the phone and the new Android 4.0 but ..I seem to be having poor signal strength and Googling this problem seems to be a bigger problem than I thought it would be.

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