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story category Fon Starts Exploring Femtocells
Though carriers may not like the idea...
06:40PM Wednesday Sep 16 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: business · wireless · alternatives · Op/Ed
You might remember the Spanish startup Fon, which promised to create an army of Wi-Fi "revolutionaries" who resell (or give away) their ISPs bandwidth depending on their level of participation. Originally, Fon just flashed Linksys routers with their own firmware, but after a while they began selling (in fact, sometimes almost giving away) their own routers. They've also struck deals with several ISPs -- a good idea since ISP TOS's tend to frown upon reselling bandwidth. Still, the deal(s) here in the states haven't accomplished much.

Fon grabbed a lot of early blogger hype for their not entirely orginal idea (see Linspot), ultimately leading to some additional funding by companies like Ebay, Google, and British Telecom. Not too surprisingly, the company has struggled with profitability, and was forced in 2008 to lay off half of their staff and stop subsidizing hardware sales. Now Fon is generating a new wave of hype this week with their announcement they're exploring femtocells, which would potentially allow for discount wireless calling over broadband. Blogs founder Martin Varsavsky:
Fon and Ubiquisys have entered a strategic partnership to develop the first “Femto Fonera”, which will provide mobile 3G data and voice access from a wireline broadband connection. You can share this 3G signal securely with other Femto Foneros, just like you share your wifi with the other Foneras. Apart from experiencing high quality voice and data connectivity at thousands of community hotspots, Femto Foneros could also enjoy tariff discounts from their mobile operator.
Of course mobile operators will have to sign off on this idea, and they won't want to cannibalize their own femtocell ambitions or wireless revenues. As we've discussed, femtocells help carriers by easing the strain on their local networks. While femotcells are nice for customers who need better indoor cell coverage, carriers have done their very best to limit the gear's value to consumers. Verizon's Network Extender femtocell solution, for instance, eats away at your mobile minutes despite saving money for the company.

Right now, companies like Verizon and Sprint are using femtocells largely as customer retention devices for customers who complain about poor coverage. While femtocells certainly should make waves the next two years as carriers start actually promoting them, it seems highly unlikely that Fon is going to be invited to the party.

Related:
  1. Google, You're a Wireless Tease
  2. Verizon's Open Development Initiative? So Far It's A Joke
  3. New Verizon Femtocell Service Is A Bad Joke
  4. Getting iPhone Slingbox App To Work Over 3G
  5. Verizon's New Wireless Pricing Is An Insult
  6. Blockbuster Still Not Getting This Whole Broadband Thing
  7. Femtocells Are A No Show
  8. Deutsche Telekom Looking For U.S. T-Mobile Partner
Forums » Fon Starts Exploring Femtocells
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burner50
Pinlifter
Premium,VIP
join:2002-06-05
EN22wm
·Mediacom
·FrontierNet Intern..

femtocell

I would contemplate a femtocell if it wasn't using my minutes like I was using the wireless network.

Till then, its just a way for my carrier to get me to subsidize their deployment.
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!

RockyBB
Premium
join:2005-01-31
Longmont, CO

Re: femtocell

Sprint femtocells don't do that.

swintec
Premium
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Alfred, ME
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Re: femtocell

said by RockyBB See Profile :

Sprint femtocells don't do that.
You need to pay 9.99 for indivdual plans or 14.99 for family plans if you want unlimited calls on your femtocell with sprint....If you don't want to pay that, your minutes are counted as normal.

At least they give you the option, more than i can say for Verizon!
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burner50
Pinlifter
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join:2002-06-05
EN22wm
·Mediacom
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said by RockyBB See Profile :

Sprint femtocells don't do that.
I couldnt use sprint if I had a thousand femtocells...

Their coverage sucks up here.
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!

swintec
Premium
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Alfred, ME
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said by burner50 See Profile :

Till then, its just a way for my carrier to get me to subsidize their deployment.
Not really. Sprint has enough coverage outside of my house to make and receive calls. Once I get in, forget about it.

Sprint made a deal with me and gave me the Femtocell for free last year, but I have to pay the $5 a month. I would have been on the fence about it if I had to pay the $100.

In the end, 5 bucks a month is worth it for having full signal in my home. I see it as just a convenience charge.

Calls still have to be terminated and paid for regardless if they are placed on the Femtocell or a normal tower...Also, there is equipment that has to be maintained on the carriers side maintaining all of these Femtocells...Why would you expect to not have your minutes charged under your plan guidelines?
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sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

Re: femtocell

Because it doesn't use up their towers' bandwidth, and you're already paying for a monthly plan?

So, you're *already* paying them to use their towers, but now you have to pay them extra AND use up minutes so that you don't have to use...their towers. Right...real logical.

swintec
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Alfred, ME
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Re: femtocell

said by sonicmerlin See Profile :

So, you're *already* paying them to use their towers, but now you have to pay them extra AND use up minutes so that you don't have to use...their towers. Right...real logical.
Not using there towers, but I am using the Femtocell network....Do you think there is tin cans and string at the other end or?
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jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

Re: femtocell

said by swintec See Profile :

said by sonicmerlin See Profile :

So, you're *already* paying them to use their towers, but now you have to pay them extra AND use up minutes so that you don't have to use...their towers. Right...real logical.
Not using there towers, but I am using the Femtocell network....Do you think there is tin cans and string at the other end or?
You're using the internet.... You know, the thing you've already paid for. To me, the cost of connecting from the internet back into their system should be an opportunity cost. Perhaps even an added value at no charge to the customer, since it actually saves the company on churn rate and tower resources...

swintec
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Re: femtocell

said by jjeffeory See Profile :

You're using the internet.... You know, the thing you've already paid for. To me, the cost of connecting from the internet back into their system should be an opportunity cost. Perhaps even an added value at no charge to the customer, since it actually saves the company on churn rate and tower resources...
I understand about tower usage and bypassing them. The femtocell network is far more equipment than just the femtocell in my living room and the internet I pay for. The femtocell traffic has to go somewhere doesnt it? That place is many thousands of dollars in equipment on the other end for encoding and decoding traffic among many other things.

As a different poster also said, there is a lot more costs to handling a call then just the "tower resources". Much of your bill is going to these other expenses.

Also, my internet connection is always on and available. The way you are talking, if it isnt getting used (since it is paid for), I am getting the shaft somehow....So why not use it?

Your 1 or more cable boxes in your house are all plugged into your electrical service right? Heck, you are even paying per KW to run those to with consumption based billing...The way you are talking, the cable companies should have designed power delivery into the CoAx to deliver power to the boxes to run THEIR service.

Alarm company? Using your electrical service?

is there any real difference here?
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jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA

Re: femtocell

No, that's not the way I'm talking or what I am implying. Yes, there is a difference.

You are implying that the femtocell hardware costs are a huge drain, I think they are not. The savings on the other equipment and bandwidth costs should cover the costs of the femtocell hardware and more. It would be nice to see some hard numbers to decide if this is fair or not, but we're not going to see those numbers. Many of us are just tired of being taken for a ride billing and service wise. It's really that simple.
jimk
Premium
join:2006-04-15
Raleigh, NC
·AT&T Southeast
·RoadRunner Cable


1 edit
said by sonicmerlin See Profile :

Because it doesn't use up their towers' bandwidth, and you're already paying for a monthly plan?

So, you're *already* paying them to use their towers, but now you have to pay them extra AND use up minutes so that you don't have to use...their towers. Right...real logical.
You're not just paying for "towers." You also pay for use of the rest of their network (such as switches, telco lines, long distance, etc). The femtocell network also costs money to develop and maintain.

The value in these devices is being able to use mobile phones at home or work when you have bad coverage (which is not always the carriers fault). This is a huge convenience, and still cheaper than having a landline. It also takes away the annoyance or potential lost business of missing calls, especially as people get more and more used to using their mobile phones as their primary phones, even when other options are available.
jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04
USA


1 edit
said by sonicmerlin See Profile :

Because it doesn't use up their towers' bandwidth, and you're already paying for a monthly plan?

So, you're *already* paying them to use their towers, but now you have to pay them extra AND use up minutes so that you don't have to use...their towers. Right...real logical.
This is one of my biggest problems with femtocells. Also, if we ever do go to a bill by-the-byte billing method, I wouldn't want to be paying yet another party to use something I already paid for. If the cell phone companies don't have coverage at my house and in my home, they should be offering me service.

If this was basically free after buying the device, then femtocells would be a great thing.

chlen
Ethically Challenged
Premium
join:2001-01-16
Albany, NY


1 edit
said by swintec See Profile :

said by burner50 See Profile :

Till then, its just a way for my carrier to get me to subsidize their deployment.
Not really. Sprint has enough coverage outside of my house to make and receive calls. Once I get in, forget about it.

Sprint made a deal with me and gave me the Femtocell for free last year, but I have to pay the $5 a month. I would have been on the fence about it if I had to pay the $100.

In the end, 5 bucks a month is worth it for having full signal in my home. I see it as just a convenience charge.

Calls still have to be terminated and paid for regardless if they are placed on the Femtocell or a normal tower...Also, there is equipment that has to be maintained on the carriers side maintaining all of these Femtocells...Why would you expect to not have your minutes charged under your plan guidelines?
Complain and it will be free, mine was and I get 5 dollars credited every month.
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Слесарь-гинеколог
stufried
Premium
join:2003-10-13
·Verizon BroadbandA..

How Can a Third Party Doing an Economic Femtocell?

I understand how a carrier makes Femtocells, but how does a third party -- became a virtual roaming partner? do they waive the roaming revenues or do I wind up "roaming" in my living room? How would the handout work? Would FON need to be licensed as a GSM carrier?

SkyNETbbs

@telenet-ops.be

Re: How Can a Third Party Doing an Economic Femtocell?

an MVNO/MVNE never paid for a 3G licence...so they can't install/use/resell femtocell's... they're just using an existing brick/mortar telco that has these licences... and just place their sql server with customerdata/priceplans in their datacenter

the 3G frequency isn't "public" like the 2.4ghz/5ghz WiFi frequency... not even at 100mW
stufried
Premium
join:2003-10-13
·Verizon BroadbandA..

Re: How Can a Third Party Doing an Economic Femtocell?

Sure, Fon could ride on someone else's license, but they don't focus on a particular country. You could be a Fon spot regardless of whether you are in New York City or in Arusha. Fon will have to build a large partnership network quickly. Then let's talk about roaming. Let's say I because a Tmobile MVNO in the UK and start rolling out Femto cells. First, it probably won't work with UK Voda, Orange, or 02 subscribers.

Now let's presume someone carries one of those Femto's to Belgium and hooks it up in their restaurant and you go out to dinner there one evening and make and receive a few calls. How are you going to feel when you get your roaming bill?

SkyNETbbs

@telenet-ops.be

Re: How Can a Third Party Doing an Economic Femtocell?

well the femto's will have to connect to some operators UMA servers via internet...
And your mobile phone can only switch to that "cell" if it's sim can register at that UMA...
otherwise you can't call...

if you configure it to "manual override"...then you'll have to see if your call is even allowed or not...most of the case you get a free voice telling there was no camel agreement or something...

My guess is that BT and/or Neuf can be those telco's ???
But I'm not sure if we can expect a femtofonera this year?
it took years untill the fon 2.0g and n was released
Forums » Fon Starts Exploring Femtocells


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