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Forget Metadata, 80% of Calls Stored by NSA, Whistleblower Says
by Karl Bode 12:05PM Friday Jul 11 2014
During the Snowden leaks the discussion has been preoccupied with the collection of "metadata" (time, participants, length of calls), even though AT&T whistleblower Mark Klein proved back in 2007 a bigger issue is telecom companies giving intelligence agencies the unfettered ability to monitor every shred of data that goes over a network (pdf) in real time, often without meaningful oversight or transparency.

That point was driven home again recently when Vodafone proclaimed in a report that governments routinely incercept and record voice and data streams in real time without a warrant. Before Snowden or even Mark Klein there was NSA whistleblower William Binney, who last week again stated that most data is not just collected in real time, but increasingly stored:
quote:
“At least 80% of fibre-optic cables globally go via the US”, Binney said. “This is no accident and allows the US to view all communication coming in. At least 80% of all audio calls, not just metadata, are recorded and stored in the US. The NSA lies about what it stores.”

The NSA will soon be able to collect 966 exabytes a year, the total of internet traffic annually. Former Google head Eric Schmidt once argued that the entire amount of knowledge from the beginning of humankind until 2003 amount to only five exabytes.
To hear Binney tell it, the end goal of the NSA is "population control," though he proclaims he's "optimistic" about some recent Supreme Court decisions, including their ruling that warrants are needed to search cell phones. Again, while many people seem preoccupied with the NSA's collection of metadata, Binney is one of many whistleblowers making it very clear we're still talking about data intercepted and stored in real time.

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merican

@24.159.134.x

1 recommendation

nsa

How are US citizens considered a threat? In the the eyes of the nsa you are guilty until proven innocent. Plus all the data they are collecting what stops them being hacked by Chinesse nationalist who do see America as a threat and they wont stop till they get that data so they have a better understanding of the things we do here. We need this to stop before all that data is taken and will be misused by a foreign government.

firephoto
We the people
Premium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA

3 recommendations

Re: nsa

The goal is to control the citizens because they have actual power over the self imposed minority who try to maintain control. It's not just the Government doing the controlling, private companies with contracts get to spy and see personal data and their number one goal is to make money. If you take away that monetary incentive, there will be only necessary spying. If the private sector needs to spy, let them do it under the laws that apply to all private individuals and let them face the law if they get caught rather than hiding behind government protection.
--
Say no to those that ‘inadvertently make false representations’.
elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

Re: nsa

The goal is to protect us interests, intellectual property, and it's citizens from harm.

Crime and espionage know no boundaries, so gathering this data is critical to metadata analysis, and that makes for a more detailed analysis. Make no mistake the Chinese and other G8 countries are engaged in similar acts, in the news or not. If we don't keep up our spying technology, others will and IP, secrets, and information will be lost.

Protecting IP is in the national interest, especially when said technology gives the US a competitive advantage, not to mention people who would do us harm.

The CIA is allowed to do anything the government or the constitution allows them to, and they are governed by that. No more or no less. Their mission is not to suppress you.

My concern is who has access to this data outside of the CIA, and ultimately privacy issues.

The great thing about the US is what happened after Snowden. Congress acted IN response to the people, and are putting some controls in place. I'd like a list of countries where that would happen, and things would change.

I know Europe and now Canada are/have introduced privacy laws, which are good to a point, but they also greatly slow down innovation and make it more difficult and costly to do business. You should see how draconian the new Canada CASL are coming into force.
existenz

join:2014-02-12
kudos:2
Reviews:
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Re: nsa

However the end result is that now companies from other countries are rejecting US products/services. Is a valid concern that if US is spying on its own citizens, what it is doing to its allies. We need to work towards building relationships with each other, spying just prompts more isolation and fear of each other.
Rekrul

join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT

1 recommendation

said by elefante72:

The CIA is allowed to do anything the government or the constitution allows them to, and they are governed by that. No more or no less. Their mission is not to suppress you.

Many experts have said that what the CIA/NSA is doing isn't constitutional. By charter, the CIA is precluded from acting on American soil. For them to do so is illegal by definition.

As for the government, most of them have no idea how far the intelligence community has gone. Even the Senate Intelligence committee, which is supposed to provide oversight over the intelligence agencies, has no real power to reign them in. They only know what the three-letter agencies tell them, and the officials in charge, like James Clapper have directly lied to the government. Not that the government seems to care.

said by elefante72:

The great thing about the US is what happened after Snowden. Congress acted IN response to the people, and are putting some controls in place. I'd like a list of countries where that would happen, and things would change.

Absolutely nothing has changed. Sure, a bunch of politicians, including Obama, said that they wanted to end the mass surveillance, but when it came time to re-authorize the acts that allowed this, they all voted for re-authorization. Sure, a couple bills were introduced to try and put some controls in place, but they got watered down to the point where they basically just said "Try to do better!" Other than that, it's business as usual.

Tell me, if you're OK with the government spying on everyone without a reason, just to keep us safe, will you be the first to volunteer to have cameras installed in every room of your home, including the bathroom, so that you can be watched 24/7 just to make sure that you're not doing anything illegal?
pandora
Premium
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Re: nsa

We must learn to accept hope and change. Our Constitution is a living document, that doesn't mean what it says, often it means the opposite, or whatever a federal bureaucrat wishes it to mean.

For example the most open administration in history is code for the most closed. We must learn newspeak and with it newthink, else our civil servants (aka overlords) could become displeased.
--
Congress could mess up a one piece jigsaw puzzle.

John Galt
Forward, March
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join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8

1 recommendation

Re: nsa

"How will you say 'freedom is slavery' when the word 'freedom' no longer exists...?"
pandora
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Re: nsa

said by John Galt:

"How will you say 'freedom is slavery' when the word 'freedom' no longer exists...?"

I love Obama of course. Ask the other brainwashed.
--
Congress could mess up a one piece jigsaw puzzle.
blushrts

join:2001-01-06
New Cumberland, PA

Re: nsa

This isn't about Obama, it's about the government period. Doesn't matter who is in charge. Maybe you could read the linked .pdf which shows this was going on in 2003. And it's been going on longer than that.
pandora
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Re: nsa

said by blushrts:

This isn't about Obama, it's about the government period. Doesn't matter who is in charge. Maybe you could read the linked .pdf which shows this was going on in 2003. And it's been going on longer than that.

Ordinarily yes, but a very loved leftist, has been able to undermine Democracy when looking at world history.

I think this is the closest the U.S. has come in my lifetime to seeing our Democracy lost. Legacy media, sans Fox News, is almost a state propaganda machine today.

Currently Obama is trying to alter our national demographic by seeding millions of future Democratic voters via his immigration policies.

We shall see what happens. I hope for the best. However, at this time, I believe Obama is the greatest threat to our Constitution and way of life of any politician within my lifetime.
--
Congress could mess up a one piece jigsaw puzzle.
existenz

join:2014-02-12
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Re: nsa

Hmm, it was the Bush admin that mostly came up with Patriot Act, a far bigger threat that has allowed NSA to get in this mess.
pandora
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Re: nsa

said by existenz:

Hmm, it was the Bush admin that mostly came up with Patriot Act, a far bigger threat that has allowed NSA to get in this mess.

Bush wasn't great at respecting privacy, but Obama has taken it to extremes even Bush wouldn't have dared to.
--
Congress could mess up a one piece jigsaw puzzle.
existenz

join:2014-02-12
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Re: nsa

Yes, it's all branches of the Feds that have had a role in this and a portion of both major parties, can't blame one person or one party.
pandora
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said by existenz:

Yes, it's all branches of the Feds that have had a role in this and a portion of both major parties, can't blame one person or one party.

Yes, both parties haven't been functioning in the interest of the people.
--
Congress could mess up a one piece jigsaw puzzle.

WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5
said by John Galt:

"How will you say 'freedom is slavery' when the word 'freedom' no longer exists...?"

Interesting historci tidbits.

1954 TV version (BBC Sunday-Night Theatre)

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8PLsHxJm9Y

Really low budget, cheesy...shadow of overhead boom mic, fake walls rattle when door is closed, actor misses cue.
"How will you say freedom is slavery..." at 14:25.

1956 version was better,

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM-9AgO5XDY

Interestingly Donald Pleasence was in both versions.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
I think I will take my chances to protect my family's and my own life, liberty and pursuit of happiness without the broad sweep of everyone's information for the very little security they provide.
existenz

join:2014-02-12
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said by merican :

In the the eyes of the nsa you are guilty until proven innocent.

Agree and have posted that here several times. Airport body scanners are also guilty until proven innocent machines. That does not comply with the spirit of American liberty/freedom. The Feds are pandering to fear and many are too easily giving up liberty for false sense of security. They let the terrorists win when allowing our own govt to monitor citizens w/out a warrant.

righton100

@75.161.35.x
When I worked for a very large data storage company in the mid 2000's, there was somewhere in the neighborhood of hundreds of petabytes that we had sold to them and had dedicated engineers supporting these "clearance" required machines. When we had the chance to meet some of the these other engineers to "train" them, we joked how these machines could probably record every conversation made, but I guess the joke is really still on us..

Flyonthewall

@206.248.154.x
Citizens are a threat to the established order in government. Your ability to vote is a threat that has to be managed, which is why both parties get donations from lobbyists and campaign contributors. It's not so much that the government itself finds you threatening, it's the people pulling their strings that are your true enemy.

DeadSurvivor
Shattered Dreams
Premium
join:2013-09-03
Tampa, FL
I wonder how many calls the NSA has stored where teen couples sit on the phone saying "I Love You" for an hour a day, heh.
MrRuckus

join:2004-01-30
Portland, OR

What can they do with encrypted data?

More and more websites, cloud storage, ect are becoming encrypted every day. What can they do with encrypted data? VPN tunnels, ect?

Seems the only thing they are going to catch are everyday Joe blow's yapping on the phones with soccer moms and what not.

I agree with what others say, what are the benefits of having such a program in place? What has it done for them so far? You want to listen to my calls to my brother about an ATV vacation I recently took, I could really care less. But there have to be terrorist plots stopped by this intrusion, and it needs to be documented in black and white and shared with the public. After all, this is what its supposed to be used for and what its meant to prevent right? If that's NOT the reason, then GTFO.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5

1 recommendation

Re: What can they do with encrypted data?

said by MrRuckus:

More and more websites, cloud storage, ect are becoming encrypted every day. What can they do with encrypted data? VPN tunnels, ect?

If they store the encrypted data, given time, they can decrypt it. If they can't decrypt it with today's techniques and CPU horsepower, they will be able to do it tomorrow, or in 5 years or whenever. They will be able to then correlate all that information and build dossiers on basically everyone.

1984 was supposed to be a warning, not a suggestion.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net
MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
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Re: What can they do with encrypted data?

said by HeadSpinning:

They will be able to then correlate all that information and build dossiers on basically everyone.

1984 was supposed to be a warning, not a suggestion.

J. Edgar Hoover did all that and more in a paper-based age.
So did the Gestapo, NKVD/KGB, and the Stasi.

Only the technology has changed.

The guys in the 'white hats' never really wore white hats - that was a Hollywood myth.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5

1 recommendation

Re: What can they do with encrypted data?

said by MaynardKrebs:

J. Edgar Hoover did all that and more in a paper-based age.
So did the Gestapo, NKVD/KGB, and the Stasi.

Only the technology has changed.

At least back then there was a much higher cost to follow a target, so they selected them carefully. With today's technology, you can compare their data sucking capabilities to the other Hoover - the kind you use on carpet.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net

elios

join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO
false security as the in the US there are now laws that they must give the Gov't the keys for said encryption

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
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said by MrRuckus:

More and more websites, cloud storage, ect are becoming encrypted every day. What can they do with encrypted data? VPN tunnels, ect?

If you consider they have the keys to the kingdom (exploits at the hardware level, software level, contacts at SSL certificate entities, and wholesale taps of fiber), encryption done right is the least of their problems. They can access the information at any point.
existenz

join:2014-02-12
kudos:2

Re: What can they do with encrypted data?

Encryption would slow them down but that is the wrong approach. The NSA should not be allowed to directly invade personal correspondence w/out a warrant, encrypted or not.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

1 recommendation

Re: What can they do with encrypted data?

Yet the NSA does what it wants with no accountability.

gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA
said by MrRuckus:

Seems the only thing they are going to catch are everyday Joe blow's yapping on the phones with soccer moms and what not.

If it's not cracked, it will be. If there is no back door, one will be built. Encryption is giving you a false sense of security.
--
Let them eat FIBER!

atcotr

@65.60.144.x
Do you remember when Google upgraded to 2048-bit public keys? 1024-bit is can be brute forced if you throw enough CPU power at it. Of course the NSA could just issue some double secret government key surrender letters or just install a spy box at the end points after the content has already been decrypted.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
Well they can force the makers of this encrypted data to provide them back doors.

You dont think they do that? Go try to get TrueCrypt which was one of the best on the market. I luckily am still running a version that came before the sudden warning and shutdown.

What about the encrypted email site that choose to close their business than to give out their keys?

You would be foolish to think MS bitlocker doesn't have a key that the government uses when they need to.

Goliath2k
Premium
join:2013-12-28
united state

Only 80%?

That's a little low to be quite honest. I'd have guessed closer to 95-100%.

••••
MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

IF they ever rule that it's unconstitutional

..and that the NSA has to cease and desist, there's going to be a tsunami of used disk drives hitting the market

Flyonthewall

@206.248.154.x

Re: IF they ever rule that it's unconstitutional

Or simply more black ops, and then instead of being foreigners they spy on everyone, only now you won't know about it, unless that gets revealed again. Do you really believe a government department has never done an illegal thing before? Iran-Contra ring a bell? Oliver North?
megarock

join:2001-06-28
Catawissa, MO
Reviews:
·Charter

2007?

Back in 2007 they were recording and storing our calls?

Try February of 2001 when ATT helped the NSA set up it's first datacenter for doing this. It was 7 months before the terrorist attacks we were told was the reason for all this eavesdropping.

Totally Obama's fault.

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
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Grand Rapids, MI
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What a waste

People are all up in arms about this, and all I can say is, what a waste. The NSA is wasting space on all these call recordings. Whats worse is that people think that the NSA is actually listening to their calls. We certainly have a false sense of importance. By recording 80% of the calls made, they have a database of the most worthless information ever made. They may have search options, such as the word "terrorist" but how many millions of gamers are using that word when talking about COD?

The point is that we are not important enough to warrant the NSA even paying attention to us. The common user isn't doing or saying anything that is getting their attention. So all the terabytes of calls they are recording is really a useless database of information.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net

meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

It's all good sheeple...

It's for the good of the Party. We should all be proud to give up our freedoms, our rights, our liberties, even our LIVES for the good of the Party. Just drink the KoolAid when they bring it around and stop worrying about things.

America is dead... Long live Amerika. Sieg Heil regards from Washington's Revolutionary Headquarters. He must be spinning in his grave.
--
"when the people have suffered many abuses under the control of a totalitarian leader, they not only have the right but the duty to overthrow that government." - The U.S. Declaration of Independence

COINTELPRO

@128.204.203.x

organized stalking

The NSA is a lying criminal agency just like the GCHQ over in the UK. They are storing everything they can get they filthy hands on. Emails, texts, telephone calls, web pages you have visited etc they will collect it all and use it against you. It allows them to build up potential blackmail information on anyone that they want like politicians, judges and so forth. They are also using this same information to target certain members of the public who describe themselves as targeted individuals. Its a secret crime that they are involved in which allows them to harass members of the public. Organized stalking or gang stalking is it's name, look it up because one day you may get targeted by it yourself.

w0g
o.O

join:2001-08-30
Springfield, OR

this was reported last year

PBS, William Binney, backed by Russell Tice.

Last year they said "everything, content, not just metadata" ..

I am glad however that they finally state a purpose because before this all previous articles basically did not state why this problem was relevant to people. Because it has nothing to do with national security, or criminal investigations, it's about "population control". This term includes the ability to learn how to manipulate. To learn how to mind control, and get away with crimes. Surveillance gives them the ability to even rig elections, to maintain power over the people, to commit psy-ops that are designed for peoples belief systems, to mass enslave everybody.

Learn more.. »www.obamasweapon.com/
--
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