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story category France 'Three Strikes' Rides Again
Sarkozy and his constituents eager to boot customers from Internet
08:55AM Wednesday Sep 16 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: legal · Fileswapping · world
Tipped by jacour See Profile
France lawmakers have again passed a proposal that would boot pirates off of the Internet after three offenses. Previous efforts to pass such legislation were struck down by the French constitutional court, which ruled that assumption of guilt and the termination of Internet connectivity violated French citizen rights. The new proposal contains a "fast track" system that would give a Judge all of five minutes to determine a broadband user's guilt or innocence before moving on to the next case. The new law now simply has to gain approval from a small committee from both houses of parliament, but will also need to pass muster with the French constitutional courts.

Related:
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  3. Pirate Bay Sale Sees Insider Trading
  4. Swedish ISP Fights New Piracy Law
  5. France Three Strikes Law Lives Again
  6. Barry Manilow Highlights 'Three Strikes' Law Stupidity
  7. British Cops, Spies Oppose 'Three Strikes'
  8. Will 'Three Strikes' Come To The United States?
Forums » France 'Three Strikes' Rides Again
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chronoss2009

join:2008-09-23

hrm

why such a hard on for your youth

sarkozy the man who'd pay 1$ to steal musicians tunes

TKJunkMail
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Re: hrm

said by chronoss2009 See Profile :

why such a hard on for your youth

Because a fair number of them have no morals at all.

KrK
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Re: hrm

I'd agree the Politicians seem to be lacking in morals completely.
jam_bongo

join:2002-07-17
Toronto, ON

said by chronoss2009 See Profile :

why such a hard on for your youth

sarkozy the man who'd pay 1$ to steal musicians tunes
funny he married a musician
chronoss2009

join:2008-09-23
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Re: hrm

said by jam_bongo See Profile :

said by chronoss2009 See Profile :

why such a hard on for your youth

sarkozy the man who'd pay 1$ to steal musicians tunes
funny he married a musician
ya and didnt he rip off that band for like 1$
so there is the cost per song for COMMERICAL use, so non commercial MUST BE WAY LESS
amungus
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um

How does legality get determined?

How does traffic then get labeled as illegal?

Who watches the watchers?

What if you were downloading perfectly legal material and got "notified" then "cut off?" What recourse does one have? What if somebody used your connection, whether it was open or they broke the encryption, and you get cut off; again, what recourse is available?

(sounds like) Guilty until proven innocent. Even there, how would one prove innocence??? A fully forensic session with your machine, that you have to pay for? Where does it end? How on earth do they expect this to work without really pissing off some innocent people?

This kind of stuff makes no sense to me. I hope that if it does somehow pass, that the whole thing backfires on them badly somehow.

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Re: um

said by amungus See Profile :

I hope that if it does somehow pass, that the whole thing backfires on them badly somehow.
Even after all this, it must still get approved by the Constitutional Council(The French Supreme Court, but one that can rule on laws without a court case being filed like in the US) which invalidated the last version of this law before it could be implemented.

I'm betting the Constitutional Council will OK this version and the 3 strikes will become the law in France this time.
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sonicmerlin

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Re: um

Why would they change their mind?

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4 edits

Re: um

said by sonicmerlin See Profile :

Why would they change their mind?
Previous law had no recourse in courts and was purely administrative by a gov't dept and that is why they invalidated it. The new law requires a court hearing before someone can be cutoff. Even if the hearing only lasts 5 mins.

P.S.>> Unlike UK & US, which is based on common law principles, France is based on the Napoleonic code. And under that you are NOT assumed to be innocent unless proven guilty. Quite the opposite actually. Once charged by an examining magistrate you are assumed guilty unless you prove otherwise.
wolfhouse

join:2001-03-01
Union City, NJ

Re: um

Not correct. French citizens have the right to the "Présomption d'innocence", which is equivalent to the innocent until proved guilty. The judge will decide of the culpability and to do so has to be convinced that there are no doubts regarding said culpability. If there remain doubts there will be a "non-lieu". Well that's how I understand it.

KrK
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It works like this.

You get accused. You're assumed guilty. You're cutoff.

At that point you must spend a fortune fighting to prove you weren't given due process, weren't warned, didn't get your previous strikes, or are completely innocent and falsely accused. Of course, that's all on you. After the fact.

OR you become a member of the Digital underground, accessing the Internet illegally, or under false documents, or by sharing someone else's connection.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
cpsycho

join:2008-06-03
Orangeville, ON

Poor Grandma

All it will take is spoofed IP's and poor grandma is gonna get nailed to the wall.

KeepOnRockin
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Re: Poor Grandma

said by cpsycho See Profile :

All it will take is spoofed IP's and poor grandma is gonna get nailed to the wall.
That's exactly it. If this does pass, it will do very little to deter P2P.

The clever people will ignore this (through the use of spoofing, encryption,..etc). "Three strikes" is still fundamentally flawed and a judge would need a lot more than 5 minutes to determine true guilt.

El Quintron
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Will lead to an escalation of Encryption and Obfuscation

This will lead to an escalation of encryption and obfuscation, at which point another (temporary) bullet proof pirating solution will be established.

At this point piracy will increase (for a time) until it can be investigated again.

Sounds just like the Gnutella lawsuits from a couple of years ago.

Rinse and Repeat anyone?
--
They vilify us, the scoundrels do, when there is only this difference, they rob the poor under the cover of law, forsooth, and we plunder the rich under the protection of our own courage.

Snad

@optonline.net

It goes to show ya...

Governments... mean to govern.
Forums » France 'Three Strikes' Rides Again


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