republican-creole
site Search:


 
   
story category
Free Press: New MetroPCS Pricing Violates Neutrality
Walled gardens, low caps, and content discrimination ahoy
by Karl Bode Tuesday 04-Jan-2011 tags: prices · business · wireless · Op/Ed · net-neutrality · consumers
The FCC recently buckled to AT&T, Verizon and Google and passed network neutrality rules that don't apply to wireless, opening the door to whatever discriminatory and absurd wireless pricing models carriers can dream up (and they are dreaming up some real gems to be sure). Our first glimpse at these new pricing models began yesterday courtesy of MetroPCS, whose latest LTE plans not only offer a very fractured Internet with ultra-low caps and circa-2000 walled gardens, but also discriminate certain content in favor of content from MetroPCS, and charge a premium should you want to access the "real" Internet. The folks at Free Press noticed, and have rung the neutrality alarm bells:

"In December, the FCC chose to disregard wireless protections in its Net Neutrality order, and MetroPCS’s new scheme is a preview of the wireless future in a world without protections on the mobile Web. Such blocking of websites, services or applications would clearly be prohibited and deemed unreasonable on a cable or DSL network. Are these the kinds of restrictions the FCC really wants to promote on wireless networks?

Apparently, yes. Amusingly, most of the press coverage of yesterday's MetroPCS announcement simply lauded the fact the company was offering "unlimited Voice/SMS and LTE service for $40." Few bothered to note that what you get for your $40 is a crippled phone, locked inside a walled garden, incapable of accessing the actual Internet. Fewer still noticed that MetroPCS' tiers undeniably violate most of the established tenets of network neutrality, including content discrimination in favor of a company's own content and services. In short, MetroPCS forces you to pay a fee if you want real Internet access; otherwise you're locked in a walled garden and shovel fed awful MetroPCS content. It's the year 2000 all over again.

As we noted yesterday, MetroPCS is only currently offering one smartphone that supports their LTE network, so it's easy enough right now to cripple and tier the LTE consumer Internet experience for their financial benefit. That gets a little more difficult as more handsets arrive, and consumers have a choice of a crippled device that foists MetroPCS content upon them -- or open devices that give them full access to the content and services of their choice across an open network. Still, if you make consumer choice a luxury tier and real Internet access a high cost extra, it's easy enough to funnel most of your customers into your walled garden and your own content using pricing as a lure.

These kind of pricing models are precisely why carriers spent millions lobbying the FCC extensively to keep network neutrality rules away from wireless networks. As such, you can expect other carriers to follow suit, layering on ever-increasing ETFs, low caps, costly overages, walled gardens and long-term contracts onto their models in an effort to probe what the FCC will allow. Unfortunately for consumers, all indications are that the FCC majority (and the press, for that matter) amusingly believes this kind of archaic pricing is evolutionary and creative. As such, the FCC may just nod dumbly at such efforts as wireless broadband pricing very quickly becomes more confusing, more expensive, and increasingly more anti-competitive.

view: topics flat text 
Post a:

larry1

@icentrix.com

i will walk

if this happens to my carrier i will walk.. i am sure some carriers will advertise that they don't have this kind of predatory pricing.
PDXPLT

join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR

Re: i will walk

Other carriers have been doing this already, for quite some time. For example, on AT&T low-end phones you have their MEdiaNet walled garden web service; nothing like a full-featured web browser.

So I don't see how this is new, or should be considered news. Or even considered deceiving: on their website, MetroPCS makes no claim to offer "internet access" at their low-end $40 plan; what they claim is a rudimentary web access, similar to what AT&T long-offered MEdiaNet on their low-end phones and plans. If you want to purchase full-featured web browsing (what they call HTML browsing) you have to pay more for it; again just like other carriers, where you have to pay more for a real data plan.

Once again it seems to be the press ginning up a controversy for their own benefit.

hhawkman
Premium
join:2001-02-08
Port Hueneme, CA

Full Circle

Soon, if they have their way, it will be AOL/Prodigy/Compuserve all over again. They don't want to maintain the garden, just make sure we all forced to play in it and pay them for the privledge.

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

1 edit

Re: Full Circle

said by hhawkman:

Soon, if they have their way, it will be AOL/Prodigy/Compuserve all over again. They don't want to maintain the garden, just make sure we all forced to play in it and pay them for the privledge.

A walled garden isn't new in the wireless arena. MetroPCS is hardly breaking new ground. Verizon has done this with their feature phones for years now with their VCast offering; Navigator; VOD offerings; etc. So the FCC hasn't raised net neutrality issues so far in this regard. All they did recently was continue EXISTING practices for wireless.

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12

Re: Full Circle

said by Linklist:

said by hhawkman:

Soon, if they have their way, it will be AOL/Prodigy/Compuserve all over again. They don't want to maintain the garden, just make sure we all forced to play in it and pay them for the privledge.

A walled garden isn't new in the wireless arena. MetroPCS is hardly breaking new ground. Verizon has done this with their feature phones for years now with their VCast offering; Navigator; VOD offerings; etc. So the FCC hasn't raised net neutrality issus so far in this regard. All they did recently was continue EXISTING practices for wireless.

Yes, but Verizon hasn't blocked access to OTHER services. That's the point here. Sure Verizon charged extra for you to use the services you mentioned, but Google Navigation, or YouTube, worked perfectly fine if you decided not to pay for VCast or Verizon Navigation.

That's the distinction.

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

Re: Full Circle

You are correct for smartphones, but not feature phones just like MetroPCS's $40 plan. For feature phones Verizon offers what they call Mobile Web. It is a walled garden with access to Verizon selected resources.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Full Circle

TMO has this same thing. You can acess TMO Web. but you want the Internet- you PAY for it.
bendover

join:2007-11-23
Glendale Heights, IL

Re: Full Circle

no so. the home page was limited to tmo links but i had free access to anywhere i wanted to go on the phone for 5.99 a month. i was even able to tether my laptop with no limit all for 5.99. that ended when i finally got a smartphone last month.

LQC

@yellowpagesinc.com
Actually Verizon has often blocked legitimate 3rd party sites and features, even on smartphones. My last phone was a WinMo PPC model, that had the built-in GPS chip scrambled to only be available to Verizon's Nav software, couldn't use Google Maps without hacking the phone to custom roms and updating firmware on the radio chip.
So long as you can't even change what DNS you're accessing on your phone's internet you're always at the risk of being hijacked by your phone company.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
Ummmm.. what exactly are they blocking on a level of service that doesn't provide "internet access" in the first place?

Just be honest in the argument being made and that people see the lowest advertised price and expect that they'll get everything there.

The example of Verizon you're making here is that you actually paid verizon for an internet access.. this isn't the case in MetroPCS.

Sorry, but this is Karl trying to further propagating BS that fits his agenda.
Automate

join:2001-06-26
Atlanta, GA
The free market system worked with AOL/Prodigy/Compuserve. People choose the open Internet over the walled garden without government intervention. Why does Karl insist that government must be involved this time?

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Yawn

How hard is it for people to, you know, not subscribe to, plans that do not suit their needs?
--
"Net Neutrality" zealots - the people you can thank for your capped Internet service.

hhawkman
Premium
join:2001-02-08
Port Hueneme, CA
Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: Yawn

said by pnh102:

How hard is it for people to, you know, not subscribe to, plans that do not suit their needs?

Not hard at all, but as is usual, they aren't informed about the crippled plan until AFTER they sign all the contracts. If contracts were written in plain english, the average consumer would be able to understand that they aren't getting the internet. But they aren't.

Smolder

@swbell.net

Re: Yawn

actually there are no contracts with MetroPCS

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5
said by hhawkman:

said by pnh102:

How hard is it for people to, you know, not subscribe to, plans that do not suit their needs?

Not hard at all, but as is usual, they aren't informed about the crippled plan until AFTER they sign all the contracts. If contracts were written in plain english, the average consumer would be able to understand that they aren't getting the internet. But they aren't.

It took me 5 mins yesterday on the MetroPCS web site to see that the $40 MetroPCS plan was a crippled walled-garden plan. I wouldn't sign on to any service until I did at least a brief check on the terms and capabilities of the plan. You don't need a law degree to do at least a basic level of checking.

ArrayList
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL

Re: Yawn

the average person isn't even going to read the fine print they are just going to sign up and roll with it. you knew what you were looking for, most people don't even look.

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

Re: Yawn

said by ArrayList:

the average person isn't even going to read the fine print they are just going to sign up and roll with it. you knew what you were looking for, most people don't even look.

Except it wasn't in fine print. It was laid out in nice big print with columns and pictures comparing the 3 plan versions. Though I do agree you have to be able to read at least at a high school level - unfortunately a level which many of our fellow citizens are incapable of doing. But that is a whole other discussion.
nycityny
Premium
join:2005-08-09
New York, NY

Re: Yawn

My friend on Verizon was paying for VCast without wanting, needing or using it. We found this out when I accompanied him to upgrade to a smartphone and associated plan. I went with him because he has so little understanding of this stuff. And he has a Masters Degree from UCLA.

Folks like him don't look at their bills nor do they care to understand them. And companies like Verizon and MetroPCS live off of this ignorance and laziness.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
and why should the Gov't protect these people? It's not the Gov'ts fault that the public FAILS to read their agareements for use.

ArrayList
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL
Reviews:
·Comcast
·T-Mobile US

Re: Yawn

its the governments job to protect people from misleading or misrepresentative(sp?) marketing.

I expect when I buy something that it be labeled clearly as to what I am getting. This includes using words that I can understand. If all of the phone companies are using legalese then there needs to be someone to force them to make them use plain English so that I can understand it.

The government is the only ones that can do anything about it anyways. Consumers are stupid.
lesopp

join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL

Re: Yawn

And what exactly do you expect the government to do? Should they pass laws requiring people to read contracts before signing them? In these cases most people are just following the previous congress' lead. It is ironic to expect congressional misleaders to do something about corporate misleaders.

ArrayList
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL
Reviews:
·Comcast
·T-Mobile US

Re: Yawn

no they should require businesses to explain the service completely and throughly. hell they can even give classes to make sure the customer actually understands the product. /s

buy seriously something has to be done. It would be nice if there were a free market, but in telecommunications, especially wireless, it is impossible to have that so it has to be regulated.
amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22
said by lesopp:

And what exactly do you expect the government to do?

A valid role for government would be something like "truth in lending," which requires the parameter of the contract to be presented in a standard format, easy to discover and compare. Or, like "nutritional labeling" which serves the same purpose.

I don't know how that might apply in this case. But, it wouldn't be unusual to impose requirements on how a contract is presented, or details disclosed.

Somnambul33t
L33t.
Premium
join:2002-12-05
Blackwood, NJ
said by ArrayList:

its the governments job to protect people from misleading or misrepresentative(sp?) marketing.

I expect when I buy something that it be labeled clearly as to what I am getting. This includes using words that I can understand. If all of the phone companies are using legalese then there needs to be someone to force them to make them use plain English so that I can understand it.

The government is the only ones that can do anything about it anyways. Consumers are stupid.

where does it say this is the government's job? it's certainly not the federal government b/c it's not listed anywhere in the constitution. maybe some states have laws "protecting" consumers but they inevitably just cause higher prices.
--
»valid.canardpc.com/cache/screens···7860.png
amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22

Re: Yawn

said by Somnambul33t:

it's certainly not the federal government b/c it's not listed anywhere in the constitution.

The federal constitution doesn't enumerate interstate highways, education, energy, wildlife or forest conservation, national park creation and operation, environmental protection, labor and occupational safety enforcement, and dozens of other things.

Would you get rid of those things?

I'm just trying to help you contextualize your comment for readers. Do you selectively adopt a minimalist position when you believe it won't benefit you. Or, would you truly like to see the Grand Canyon turned into a time-share condominum complex?

Somnambul33t
L33t.
Premium
join:2002-12-05
Blackwood, NJ

Re: Yawn

said by amigo_boy:

said by Somnambul33t:

it's certainly not the federal government b/c it's not listed anywhere in the constitution.

The federal constitution doesn't enumerate interstate highways, education, energy, wildlife or forest conservation, national park creation and operation, environmental protection, labor and occupational safety enforcement, and dozens of other things.

Would you get rid of those things?

YES

interstate highways are completely constitutional: commerce clause was originally intended to grant the federal government authority to settle disputes between entities across state lines, to promote the transfer of goods between states, and to prevent the states from boycotting/placing high taxes on goods from other states. Inter-state highways are completely under this clause, however i'd argue that normal community/intra-state roads are not and we should not be spending federal funds on them.

national parks should be abolished, the land sold off to private individuals/companies, and the entire department of the interior disbanded.

Education has NO place in federal policy. at all. abolish the dept of ed and restore the balance of power back to state and local governments to allow them to choose their own values.

the EPA is the single worst entity in the US and has caused millions of deaths worldwide with their policies. destroy it and save people and businesses hundreds or millions of dollars and thousands of lives a year.

labor laws like wage laws and OSHA are one of the single-biggest contributors to the mass offshoring of US jobs.
--
»valid.canardpc.com/cache/screens···7860.png
amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22

Re: Yawn

said by Somnambul33t:

said by amigo_boy:

said by Somnambul33t:

it's certainly not the federal government b/c it's not listed anywhere in the constitution.

The federal constitution doesn't enumerate interstate highways, education, energy, wildlife or forest conservation, national park creation and operation, environmental protection, labor and occupational safety enforcement, and dozens of other things.

Would you get rid of those things?

YES

Thanks for your honesty. Most people only selectively invoke literal "enumerated powers" argument. When faced with the things I mentioned above, they backpeddle and say "that's different" (for fear of being irrelevant).

said by Somnambul33t:

interstate highways are completely constitutional: commerce clause was originally intended to grant the federal government authority to settle disputes between entities across state lines

But, now I'm detecting some backpeddling. (Chuckle.).

There were no disputes between states when interstate highways were created. They were created just because the federal government was in the best position to manage it.

The same argument could be made for consumer protections. That consolidating and standardizing protections reduces cross-state disputes and enhances commerce by making commerce more predictable.

said by Somnambul33t:

national parks should be abolished, the land sold off to private individuals/companies, ...

Education [too]. ...

the EPA [too] ...

labor laws like wage laws and OSHA [too].

Good. I'm glad to help readers contextualize your remarks on consumer protections.

It's easy to get all goose-bumply with Jingoist rhetoric. But, when people realize how that's either not consistently applied (or what it means when it is) the tingly feeling tends to go away rather quickly.

The prospect of irrelevancy has that effect on people.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
said by ArrayList:

the average person isn't even going to read the fine print they are just going to sign up and roll with it. you knew what you were looking for, most people don't even look.

It's not in small print.. but besides, I kinda like the legal system in our country... IGNORANCE is no excuse.

The fun of this is what excuse the nanny will try to make FOR the ignorant person when they can't read what is in front of their face.

This all goes down to the nutrition charts in fast food joints. Libs seem to think that having a nutrition chart isn't enough,.. so now they want and demand, in some areas, that calories are right on the menu next to the price of the burger we all know isn't going to make you skinny. And if that wasn't bad enough, they now want fat, protein, and carbs listed on the menu board as well. (Funny thing is that much study has already proved that people just don't care to be bothered with making the decisions they make, rather, they only care about getting "justice" for down the road when they've been wronged.

Where does it end?
amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22

Re: Yawn

said by fiberguy:

besides, I kinda like the legal system in our country... IGNORANCE is no excuse.

That's not true. You're often required to initial each paragraph to demonstrate there was a "meeting of the minds." That you truly deliberated and consummated the contract.

Or, consider how fine print on the back of carnival tickets (saying "acceptance of this ticket constitutes agreement to hold us harmless for all injury or death." Those are generally unenforceable except for accidents resulting despite "reasonable care" by the carnival staff. As we all know, "reasonable care" isn't well-defined. It's what a dozen of your peers can be convinced.

That's the same controversy of so-called shrinkwrap licenses (terms of use, end-user agreements, etc.). They can specify limitations and expectations of the use of the service. But, as part of a legal obligation on the user (to pay for 3 years, or give up their right to judicial review), there is insufficient evidence that the terms were understood, deliberated and consummated.

If you don't believe me, just try to put "you agree to give us title to your home" in a EULA/ToS. You'll have absolutely zero enforceability.

Also, "ignorance is no excuse" applies to liability, not contractual adhesion. If someone's injured on your property due to a slippery or uneven surface, ignorance of that condition doesn't remove your liability.

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3

Re: Yawn

Enough of your own version of philosophy.. please save that for someone else.. k? It's very well established in this country that ignorance is no excuse.

Stop over analyzing it,.. stop spinning in your Utopian views.. and stop acting like you're in your evening robe, slippers, and pipe having some conversation that everyone is beneath you.. okay? The simple fact is there.. if the document has been handed to you, and the VERY LEGAL SYSTEM that will tell you "ignorance is no excuse" sets the rules that customer notification has to be performed to solidify your agreement, well, who are you to come in with your, what ever you call it, and tell the whole country they're wrong?

The bottom line is that you ALWAYS try to spin your statements WAY out of line.. maybe Mensa is a forum you should join.

By the way, no one is going to put in "you agree to give us your home" in a EULA and you know it. However, flamboyant arguments like yours are made all the time by extremists trying to tell their points. That one was about as good as republicans saying that if gays are allowed to marry, then people will want to marry their cars or the tree in their front yard.

Sorry.. you're too much over the top for me.. I'm just not as smart as you.

Oh, and one more thing, sorry.. but I have to.. your little statement on if someone's injured on my property due to a slippery or uneven surface (which the two are not exclusive to each other in the first place).. lets take slippery.. I can tell you live in AZ, and I can CERTAINLY tell you still believe that what goes on in AZ must be the same all over the country (tell me your views on your one world government plans sometime, okay?) but here in MN, in many cases, people try to sue on slippery surfaces quite often, be it from rain, or snow, ice, or even sprinklers.. however, those plaintiffs find themselves tossed out on their asses, much the same as when they slipped in the first place, because up here, see, we're in the belief that if you slip on ice in MN, then you're ignorant to the fact we get ice. If you slip on snow, then you're ignorant to the fact we get snow. If you slip on water from storms, well,.. ignorant too.. oh, and sprinkers? Guess what? we water our lawns up here - those are facts of life.. as far as uneven goes, you may get some leeway there, but often people will do the required painting of the uneven walkway which does cover their liability. If someone isn't looking where they walk and they trip - that's their fault. (Sure, reply with a few exceptions to the general rule as I'm sure you will, however, just know that I simply won't read it, nor respond to it. It will just be pointless, off topic, and spin into several tangents away from the original topic anyway)

The point remains.. ignorance is no excuse. We're talking about cell phones here, not cruise line tickets. We're talking about a people trying to claim that they're not aware until AFTER they sign this alleged contract that the service they purchased didn't include the web.

Dude, face the fact.. many people are ignorant and are so because they chose to be. One thing that most people are capable of in life is that they can ask questions... however, most people "won't be bothered by the details" until something snaps them hard later. And then comes the outrage.

You want to solve out soaring debt in this country? ... slap a tax on the stupid. We'd have it paid off by June.
amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22

Re: Yawn

said by fiberguy:

The point remains.. ignorance is no excuse.

So... you're saying you can put a clause in a shrink-wrap license saying "by opening this packet, you agree to sign over your home" would be enforceable?

There's no way such a "contract" would be upheld simply because the homeowner was ignorant of that term of the contract.

Contracts require a "meeting of the minds." Burying something like that in fine print doesn't constitute "meeting of the minds." It could even be evidence of a bad-faith contract. An attempt to avoid meeting of the minds and get something over on someone through ignorance of what is assented to.

said by fiberguy:

stop spinning in your Utopian views..

Maybe I'm not the one with utopian views?

Honestly, the next time you sell something on eBay, add something with small font saying "I get your house with this sale."

Let me know who's utopian.

Somnambul33t
L33t.
Premium
join:2002-12-05
Blackwood, NJ
said by ArrayList:

the average person isn't even going to read the fine print they are just going to sign up and roll with it. you knew what you were looking for, most people don't even look.

and who's fault is that? what's the first thing most parents tell their kids when signing their name...NEVER SIGN A CONTRACT WITHOUT READING THE CONTRACT. there's 3-7 carriers in most markets...don't like one, go with another. don't like contracts? go pre-paid or metropcs. there's plenty of options...
--
»valid.canardpc.com/cache/screens···7860.png
amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22

Re: Yawn

said by Somnambul33t:

and who's fault is that? what's the first thing most parents tell their kids when signing their name...NEVER SIGN A CONTRACT WITHOUT READING THE CONTRACT.

There's a certain point where burying penalties, overages and limitations (on a 3-year monthly payment) starts to look predatory. It doesn't matter that it's the consumer's fault for not being more careful.

We've established this principle in so many ways it's not close to being debateable.

1. The SEC exists precisely because people couldn't navigate all the treachery of stock offerings. Various financial reporting formats, or claims in prospectus, or dilution.

The personal responsibility people said: "Go visit any company you're going to invest in. Investigate their books, creditors and management!"

2. The FDIC exists precisely because people couldn't navigate bank practices, solvency, reserves, etc.

3. Same thing for Truth in Lending, 3-day right of recision, food ingredient and nutritional labeling.

4. Healthcare. The profession was given a monopoly to set standards and accredit institutions and members of the academy because individuals didn't want to perform "due diligence."

For example, if it were the individual's responsibility, we'd have hundreds of medical accrediting organizations and the individual's responsibility to investigate any medical professional's credentials, the track record of that credentialing organization to enforce its standards, etc. We essentially converted "free choice" into socially-enforced higher standards to protect the public (at the expense of lower-cost goods and services).

Would you abolish all those things?

simcard

@dstream.net
When I click on "4G Web", I see: "You have the freedom to surf the Web in your hand using the 4G Network." Misleading? Yes.

rchandra
Stargate Universe fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW7mOaPnYYA


By analogy, read the contract. I'm "with ya." The reason people don't read the contract (or bill) is because they're just too damn long with very little (consumer) benefit for doing all that work of reading and understanding. That's why, for the moment anyway, I won't join Twitter or Facebook; it's a waste of time reading their ToS/AUP/privacy policy/etc. for too little gain. I practically go to sleep trying to get through that! And I'm not going to agree to something unless I know what my rights and responsibilities are, and what rights, if any, I'm choosing to give up.

Hopefully the market can respond with some form of competition and choice without government noodling in private businesses. But at the same time, does not the U.S. Constitution 14th Amendment guarantee equal application of law? Why, other than the weak excuses from the FCC, are wireless carriers exempt? (/me ducks and says I also have the same sentiment about these corporations who are seeking waivers of needing to comply with the new US health care laws.)
--
English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules.


Jeopardy! replies and randomcaps REALLY suck!

mix

join:2002-03-19
Utica, MI

Re: Yawn

Seriously, a John Conyers quote? What are you smoking?

rchandra
Stargate Universe fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105

Re: Yawn

Nothing. When long, quasi-English documents which are typically not read were mentioned, the new health care law and Conyers were the first things that happened to pop into my head.

Do you fail to see the analogy between the length and complexity of the recent US health care legislation and the typical ream of terms to which you're supposedly agreening when you join with a mobile services carrier?

I am, BTW, displeased that representatives did not take the time to read and understand laws which we're supposed to follow, or at least vote "no" until given sufficient time to do so.

mix

join:2002-03-19
Utica, MI

Re: Yawn

John Conyers, husband of "someone named Monica Conyers?" YES!

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfpeY0B8jJA

rchandra
Stargate Universe fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105

Re: Yawn

birds of a (questionable) feather...
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
said by hhawkman:

said by pnh102:

How hard is it for people to, you know, not subscribe to, plans that do not suit their needs?

Not hard at all, but as is usual, they aren't informed about the crippled plan until AFTER they sign all the contracts. If contracts were written in plain english, the average consumer would be able to understand that they aren't getting the internet. But they aren't.

PLANS, as you discuss, are not in "CONTRACTS" as you insist.. where are you getting, I mean, making this up from? Last I checked, I dunno, EVERY PROVIDER has a rate sheet, or some sort of customer information sheet, poster on the wall, or something, that discusses the services and the monthly price for it. The CONTRACT is more so about the phone discount and length of time you must remain a CUSTOMER.

Somnambul33t
L33t.
Premium
join:2002-12-05
Blackwood, NJ
said by hhawkman:

said by pnh102:

How hard is it for people to, you know, not subscribe to, plans that do not suit their needs?

Not hard at all, but as is usual, they aren't informed about the crippled plan until AFTER they sign all the contracts. If contracts were written in plain english, the average consumer would be able to understand that they aren't getting the internet. But they aren't.

and the contracts have no ETF for canceling within the 1st 30 days...
also, i'm certainly no lawyer but i can understand most basic contracts i sign... sure it's legalese but it's not french.
--
»valid.canardpc.com/cache/screens···7860.png
kaila

join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL
If we know our wireless providing friends, there will be tremendous pressure for them to offer plans that won't suit any subscribers needs, at least in regards to smartphone data pricing.
--
Jeff Howe
Jeff's Blog - »www.ostjournal.net

See 12 replies to this post

C0deZer0
Oc'D To Rhythm And Police
Premium
join:2001-10-03
Tempe, AZ
At least with Metro, it's not a huge deal to change plans, either. There's no arbitrary contract or ETF's to worry about either. Just the cost of the phone, and the monthly rate.

That being said, they have a couple of Android phones out there now; but the 4G Android phone is supposed to show up sometime next month. That's what I'm waiting to hear about myself.

Currently, it wouldn't cost me any differently to go from my current plan to the "regular" smartphone plan. At worst, it would be another $10/month to get unlimited 4G as well... which as we all know, is something none of the other "4G" carriers in the U.S. would even try to do.
--
Front Line Force Fortress Forever
gorehound

join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME
i still use a cell phone.as in a phone and do my internet surfing,etc on my desktop.i save tons of money that way.
firedrakes

join:2009-01-29
Arcadia, FL

yes

same here i would walk. period
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: yes

you get what you pay for. What cheap service; get cheap products. want something offered; pay for it. stop complaining and read what you get first. Plus you won't get a refund of any sort.
WhatNow
Premium
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC

Re: yes

That is so true. Go cheap you get cheap. Everybody says Verizon is normally great for the stable connection then they complain about the price.

NicoMcLane

@ubs.com

MetroPCS in Florida & AT&T

ok, only semi related to this posti but relevant - my mom's friend out in Florida had her AT&T (954) LANDLINE NUMBER (that was serviced/rpovded by AT&T) "PORTED" somehow and given away... a MetroPCS agent called this woman to tell her that her number had been ported and that for a PRICE MetroPCS would sell her back this number.

Of course the whole thing sounds criminal to me... and apparently AT&T has no idea what happened or how...I figured you guys may have some "thoughts" on the subject? Or at least point me in the correct direction to help this poor woman out.

See 7 replies to this post

MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·DIRECTV
·Optimum Online
·Cablevision

It's MetroPCS

Network neutrality is dead on wireless for the time being, something I am not happy with either, with that in mind let's think about who we are talking about MetroPCS.

This effectively is adding another very discounted tier below their LTE phone access, the price for an LTE Phone on MetroPCS, it just offered a lower priced option for the type of budget consumer that considers MetroPCS.

If this type of pricing structure comes to one of the major 4, and they raise the rates for real mobile broadband, I'll join you in being up in arms about this, I don't think this would work with existing real smartphones anyway, if MetroPCS does get android phones they will no doubt require one of the higher level plans.

biggbrother
Premium
join:2001-11-07
Providence, RI

Virgin Mobile is Definitely a Better Option

I steered 3 family members to the Samsung Intercept. Supposedly the phone is selling like crazy for Virgin Mobile. Unlimited "real" internet (I can't believe I even have to say that), and 1200 minutes, unlimited text, for $40 per month.

Or, $25 a month for unlimited internet, texts, and 300 minutes. No contracts. All on Sprint's 3G network. No contracts.

Plus they have pretty good customer service, usually.
--
"Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally."
-- Abraham Lincoln

michieru
Premium
join:2009-07-25
Miami, FL
Reviews:
·Comcast Business..
·AT&T U-Verse
·Clearwire Wireless
·AT&T Southeast

What has changed here?

Every carrier I have seen has this walled garden for one.

1.AT&T Medianet
2. T-mobile t-zones
3. Sprint WAP homepage
4. Verizon WAP homepage

You can purchase games and content and without a minimal data plan some will charge you by the KB for usage too.

If you want full browser support to access any webpage you pay for a unlimited data plan. Different lingo all the same garbage.
Taget

join:2004-07-29

Not really content discrimination so much.....

....as discrimination against data intensive add-ons. The Metro web browswer for low end phones tend to be crippled in that they won't do flash or anything fancy. You pay extra for a real browser. On feature phones they may have a special app to play youtube. It's only on the higher end phones that you get a full browser.

Keep in mind Metropcs is planning on going all LTE and this includes the lowest end phones. They will be the ones on the $40 plan. The feature phones will be on the $50 plan. And the Androids/Blackberries may very well require the $60 plan. Though perhaps will allow the $50 one.

The $40 plan just seems to be offering a similar product for those who have cheapie flip phone for a similar price once everything is all LTE.
MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Mediacom
·RoadRunner Cable

So, how is this a Network Neutrality violation?

You would put a regulation out there that says a company can NOT offer a lower-priced option that satisfies some set of their customers, and also a higher-priced option that provides "the full Internet" ?

If THAT'S what Net Neutrality means... I'm out.

You're basically saying you don't want innovative, lower-priced offerings that satisfy consumers who buy them, and make money for the companies providing them, thereby funding investment in the network and the offerings -- because they're not what YOU want.

This is like the opposite of free markets. You're sounding exactly like how your opponents portray you... out to cripple innovation with a solution looking for a problem.

After all -- if the consumer WANTS the "full internet", they CAN get it at a competitive price. What is the problem you are trying to solve here, actually?
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA

Re: So, how is this a Network Neutrality violation?

said by MyDogHsFleas:

You would put a regulation out there that says a company can NOT offer a lower-priced option that satisfies some set of their customers, and also a higher-priced option that provides "the full Internet" ?

If THAT'S what Net Neutrality means... I'm out.

You're basically saying you don't want innovative, lower-priced offerings that satisfy consumers who buy them, and make money for the companies providing them, thereby funding investment in the network and the offerings -- because they're not what YOU want.

That's exactly what the DSLR crowd wants.

Every plan must be "Unlimited" / "All You Can Eat" without restriction.
We can't have people making their own choices, that would be unfair to the "power users", who would lose their subsidy. Just another form of tax / creeping socialism.

Fortunately, so far, we can at least choose NOT to subscribe. Eventually, someone will propose that these services are a "right", and "must be free", and then we'll really pay.

Friday, 24-May 12:59:23 Terms of Use & Privacy | feedback | contact | Hosting by nac.net - DSL,Hosting & Co-lo
over 13.5 years online © 1999-2013 dslreports.com.