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French iPhone Carrier Throttles HSDPA to 384kbps
Users only start noticing once Wired analyzes global speeds...
by Karl Bode 04:04PM Wednesday Aug 27 2008
Earlier this week, Wired News posted the results of a survey comparing iPhone speeds across various global 3G networks. This led to several cases of users in various countries realizing they were getting, well, crappy service. Customers of France's Orange were particularly annoyed to find out that their carrier was artificially restricting downstream speeds of their HSDPA network to 384kbps (HSDPA's theoretical maximum downstream speed is 7.2Mbps). Orange says they were simply "preserving the stability of the network," but customers believe Orange was preserving the integrity of their pocketbook. Thanks to Wired's data, Orange says they'll increase downstream speeds to 1Mbps starting September 15.

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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4

Wow....

That REALLY sucks. Glad I am getting around 1.2 Mbps.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: Wow....

Wait a minute...why doesn't Orange just not deploy an HSDPA network 384 kbps is the speed of first-gen UMTS (no enhancements)...
EPS4

join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

Re: Wow....

I was thinking the same thing, actually

IowaMan
Premium
join:2008-08-21
Grinnell, IA
Reviews:
·Mediacom
Or if your an Iowa Telecrap customer still, basic is 384K Is this DSL? I think not

»www.iowatelecom.com/residentials···8&GPID=0

Oh and it is 384k not 364k
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2

Re: Wow....

Let's see...it runs over a phone line and is >128k...it's DSL. Up until a year ago my parents wer paying $45 for a 512k wireless connection. Now it's up to 512k.

Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
They offer speeds of up to 15mbit. Their basic tier is 364kbit. What's your point? Up until recently, Bell Canada only let wholesalers use 256kbit for their "lite" DSL tier. They currently let them use up to 512kbit.
flyingjoey

join:2005-11-07
Jersey City, NJ
So you're getting 1.2 on AT&T's great network, the network that can put you back on Edge by walking 3 feet in the wrong direction. hahahh!

I've been in a moving car getting 1.4 consistently (on Sprint), and in certain places I've seen 2.3 down and 800 up.

ilikeme
I live in a van down by the river.
Premium
join:2002-08-27
Sugar Land, TX
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Vonage

Re: Wow....

said by flyingjoey:

So you're getting 1.2 on AT&T's great network, the network that can put you back on Edge by walking 3 feet in the wrong direction. hahahh!

I've been in a moving car getting 1.4 consistently (on Sprint), and in certain places I've seen 2.3 down and 800 up.
Sprint blows compared to At&t. They might have more 3G coverage than At&t right now, but their coverage in general sucks compared to At&t. My experiences with at&t 3G have been good and I have gotten up to about 1.5 in a moving car. Sprints customer service also sucks compared to any of the other carriers.
--

Fiber Optics is the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR Fiber Optic Forum
flyingjoey

join:2005-11-07
Jersey City, NJ

Re: Wow....

yes their customer service may suck... you're right about that.

The last time I had to deal with customer service was... ummmm Sept. of 2005. Haven't had a need to speak to them again.

Evdo Rev. A for $15 bucks a month is a small price to pay for what I get out of it... specially when I'm on the road and don't want to pay 12.95 for hotel Internet access.

I've had a company crackberry phone for 3+ years and I still rather pay for my sprint phone cause it feels more reliable and the voice calls sound better.

Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
said by ilikeme:

Sprint blows compared to At&t. They might have more 3G coverage than At&t right now, but their coverage in general sucks compared to At&t. My experiences with at&t 3G have been good and I have gotten up to about 1.5 in a moving car. Sprints customer service also sucks compared to any of the other carriers.
Then you're one of the few and far between lucky of AT&T customers right now. You didn't say whether you were sporting an iPhone or not, but either way...

I think I just wanted to tell you how heartily I laughed when I read this particular contradiction:
They might have more 3G coverage than At&t right now, but their coverage in general sucks compared to At&t.
What? Care to espouse on the topic of how they can simultaneously have more 3G coverage but suck in general compared to the provider who has the death star for a logo? The company who had to drop the "fewest dropped calls of any network" advertising nonsense in favor of a less-outright-lie "more bars in more places" slogan?

Take a look at some of the maps people have been posting of "3G" iPhone performance (and I put 3G in quotes, because the speeds are anything but). I know that where I live at least, I saw speeds averaging around 350 kilobits/sec. That's plain disgusting...

I easily get 1.1-1.2 megabits (even in marginal signal areas) on my HTC Mogul tethering to my PC. EV-DO Rev.A FTW.
--
"Some people never see the light till it shines thru bullet holes." -Bruce Cockburn

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Hambone4
Hambone

join:2007-08-11
North Hollywood, CA
You are too kind. Sprint's customer service does not suck -- it blows !!!!
BB_Hunter

join:2008-05-16

4 edits
said by Nerdtalker:

said by ilikeme:

Sprint blows compared to At&t. They might have more 3G coverage than At&t right now, but their coverage in general sucks compared to At&t.
Then you're one of the few and far between lucky of AT&T customers right now. You didn't say whether you were sporting an iPhone or not, but either way...

I think I just wanted to tell you how heartily I laughed when I read this particular contradiction:
They might have more 3G coverage than At&t right now, but their coverage in general sucks compared to At&t.
What? Care to espouse on the topic of how they can simultaneously have more 3G coverage but suck in general compared to the provider who has the death star for a logo? The company who had to drop the "fewest dropped calls of any network" advertising nonsense in favor of a less-outright-lie "more bars in more places" slogan?

Take a look at some of the maps people have been posting of "3G" iPhone performance (and I put 3G in quotes, because the speeds are anything but). I know that where I live at least, I saw speeds averaging around 350 kilobits/sec. That's plain disgusting...

I easily get 1.1-1.2 megabits (even in marginal signal areas) on my HTC Mogul tethering to my PC. EV-DO Rev.A FTW.
Its not a contradiction. You obviously can't read very well. I'll highlight the key point of his statement and see if you can figure out what he is saying. Your attempt to flame ilikeme has only made you look stupid.

Hint: It has to do with the word "but".

They might have more 3G coverage than At&t right now, but their coverage in general sucks compared to At&t.

Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ

Re: Wow....

said by BB_Hunter:

Its not a contradiction. You obviously can't read very well. I'll highlight the key point of his statement and see if you can figure out what he is saying. Your attempt to flame ilikeme has only made you look stupid.

Hint: It has to do with the word "but".

They might have more 3G coverage than At&t right now, but their coverage in general sucks compared to At&t.
No offense, but if I have trouble reading, you apparently had trouble replying, since I'm not ptrowski See Profile. I haven't flamed anyone, but on a related topic I've noticed that generally the first person to mention flaming is the one who ends up fanning a conversation in such a direction. Something to consider. ::shrug::

Regardless, my point still stands. Coverage is either good, or bad. You can't argue that company X has more coverage, and then turn around and say their coverage in general sucks compared to AT&T. I can't help it that you blatantly don't understand what's painfully contradictory about that sentence, I can't.

I understand that the point he was trying to make was that Sprint/Verizon/CDMA US Carriers have broader/wider/bigger areas of coverage (notice how I was specific in this context, "more" is so wholly lacking in specificity), and that he's trying to argue that what 3G coverage AT&T does have is somehow better.

Honestly, that argument doesn't even stand on it's own. As I said before and repeat now, go back and look at the testing other AT&T users have done with the same hardware and compare speeds and signal strength; it simply isn't as good. Again, I know from looking over that map myself that it was apparent that backhauls weren't up to handling HSDPA speeds anywhere near 1.7 megabits, people were doing testing with marginal signal or worse, and I was generally appalled at the test results in my area. GSM in the US in general simply isn't as rolled out or deployed as the more mature CDMA here. It isn't something that you can stand and argue about, it's pure fact. You can wish all day long, it's just truth.

Additionally, so many of these arguments stand or fall based on purely anecdotal evidence. Think about how many pointless, frivolous, and worthless "I had bad signal here. You have bad signal there. My friend says he gets dropped calls. The provider map says I have 3G coverage somewhere I know I don't." arguments you've read over. Now, think about how little they really mean when we compare them to actual real-world testing and use. The sentiment and denial that another "thing" is better applies to consumer products the same way it applies to providers in this context; so many people convince themselves that "their" carrier is best to make themselves believe they made a smart choice. It happens with product reviews all the time, ever heard of ownership loyalty?

I know there's a congressional bill which would require the FCC to mandate street-level, high resolution, high quality, standardized signal strength (that means real dbm values the carriers get when they site survey) maps, as well as an easy to understand explanation of the PRLs/roaming they're signing on for, for precisely this reason! Carrier maps are vague, exaggerated, and borderline false. Honestly, AT&T fanbois screaming in the face of cold hard facts in some illogical crusade to justify a potentially expensive mistake to themselves and the world is an even worse one.
--
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BB_Hunter

join:2008-05-16

Re: Wow....

said by Nerdtalker:

said by BB_Hunter:

Its not a contradiction. You obviously can't read very well. I'll highlight the key point of his statement and see if you can figure out what he is saying. Your attempt to flame ilikeme has only made you look stupid.

Hint: It has to do with the word "but".

They might have more 3G coverage than At&t right now, but their coverage in general sucks compared to At&t.
No offense, but if I have trouble reading, you apparently had trouble replying, since I'm not ptrowski See Profile. I haven't flamed anyone, but on a related topic I've noticed that generally the first person to mention flaming is the one who ends up fanning a conversation in such a direction. Something to consider. ::shrug::

Regardless, my point still stands. Coverage is either good, or bad. You can't argue that company X has more coverage, and then turn around and say their coverage in general sucks compared to AT&T. I can't help it that you blatantly don't understand what's painfully contradictory about that sentence, I can't.

I understand that the point he was trying to make was that Sprint/Verizon/CDMA US Carriers have broader/wider/bigger areas of coverage (notice how I was specific in this context, "more" is so wholly lacking in specificity), and that he's trying to argue that what 3G coverage AT&T does have is somehow better.

Honestly, that argument doesn't even stand on it's own. As I said before and repeat now, go back and look at the testing other AT&T users have done with the same hardware and compare speeds and signal strength; it simply isn't as good. Again, I know from looking over that map myself that it was apparent that backhauls weren't up to handling HSDPA speeds anywhere near 1.7 megabits, people were doing testing with marginal signal or worse, and I was generally appalled at the test results in my area. GSM in the US in general simply isn't as rolled out or deployed as the more mature CDMA here. It isn't something that you can stand and argue about, it's pure fact. You can wish all day long, it's just truth.

Additionally, so many of these arguments stand or fall based on purely anecdotal evidence. Think about how many pointless, frivolous, and worthless "I had bad signal here. You have bad signal there. My friend says he gets dropped calls. The provider map says I have 3G coverage somewhere I know I don't." arguments you've read over. Now, think about how little they really mean when we compare them to actual real-world testing and use. The sentiment and denial that another "thing" is better applies to consumer products the same way it applies to providers in this context; so many people convince themselves that "their" carrier is best to make themselves believe they made a smart choice. It happens with product reviews all the time, ever heard of ownership loyalty?

I know there's a congressional bill which would require the FCC to mandate street-level, high resolution, high quality, standardized signal strength (that means real dbm values the carriers get when they site survey) maps, as well as an easy to understand explanation of the PRLs/roaming they're signing on for, for precisely this reason! Carrier maps are vague, exaggerated, and borderline false. Honestly, AT&T fanbois screaming in the face of cold hard facts in some illogical crusade to justify a potentially expensive mistake to themselves and the world is an even worse one.
First off were talking about different types of coverage. There is the newer 3G and the older Edge networks. His reference to there coverage in general isn't referring to 3G. As he clearly stated by saying they have more 3G coverage.

I won't argue with you about the 3G coverage. I know Sprint leads At&t on that. But in terms of general coverage At&t destroys sprints coverage. This is what he is referring to.

For you pleasure I went ahead and made a comparison chart for you. On the left you have Sprints coverage in green and on the right is At&t's coverage map in orange both taken from there sites. You can plainly see At&t has a greater area of overall coverage.



I will agree with you on the topic of I've got a signal you don't here. It does get old. As long as your phone works were you use it that's all that matters. I just wanted to clarify his post.

Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ

Re: Wow....

I agree that we're talking about different things here (2.5EDGE versus 3G data versus CDMA EV-Do/1X). I think an important thing to note is that although Sprint's own network doesn't extend everywhere, the black part of that graph represents areas that are roaming through Verizon/Alltel. Keep in mind that this is included.

At this point, it really becomes a semantic argument, but what we're really talking about here is AT&T's 3G coverage, not EDGE, especially considering this is the thing's most touted feature.
--
"Some people never see the light till it shines thru bullet holes." -Bruce Cockburn

I'm testing Gmail's spam filters: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
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S_engineer
Premium
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

yeah...

try explaining this to your teenager that HAS to have one!

Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1

Re: yeah...

Then they have to pay for it. No bail outs.

60127178
K.U. Sweet 16
Premium
join:2001-02-15
Wichita, KS
kudos:1

1 recommendation

ATT??

Maybe this might have been a good idea to do on ATT. Start out at 384, or even 512k until they could identify what if any strain it would put on the network. Then again knowing ATT it might have taken years to crank up the speed.
--
I'm farming, are you??

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Upping speeds; overuse by customers; caps & overage fees

So Orange ups the speeds. Customers start more heavily using the service. Wireless towers become overloaded. Caps and overage fees instituted.

What happened to all those saying that a company shouldn't up speeds if the infrastructure can't handle it?

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA
kudos:1

Re: Upping speeds; overuse by customers; caps & overage fees

said by FFH:

So Orange ups the speeds. Customers start more heavily using the service. Wireless towers become overloaded. Caps and overage fees instituted.

What happened to all those saying that a company shouldn't up speeds if the infrastructure can't handle it?
Well, both of them will probably be here soon. I think the rest of us would rather have the infrastructure updated to meet the consumers' demands.

LLStarks
I've been here a while
Premium
join:2003-12-03
Roslyn, NY

Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

Orange has NO BUSINESS carrying the iPhone if their network can't handle it.
--
I know before you even speak that you're wrong.

Dread
On course
Premium
join:2005-02-28
Bronx, NY
kudos:6

Re: Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

3.5G is just much more fun
--
Why so retarded?

ninjatutle
Premium

join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA
I have the solution. Just shut it down.

You can never satisfy the customer.

TomClancy
Freedom Isn't Free

join:2003-04-23
...

Re: Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

I won't even start with that statement.
--
Freedom isn't free!

Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ
I have an even better solution: give customers what they're paying for.

Upgrade your backhauls with all the money you're raking in raping ***cough*** "charging extra" for 3G service.

The "you" here refers to iPhone-carrying providers in general
--
"Some people never see the light till it shines thru bullet holes." -Bruce Cockburn

I'm testing Gmail's spam filters: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

said by Nerdtalker:

I have an even better solution: give customers what they're paying for.

Upgrade your backhauls with all the money you're raking in raping ***cough*** "charging extra" for 3G service.

The "you" here refers to iPhone-carrying providers in general
WHAT!!! But how can you make outrageous profit margins that way!

Ripping off customers for maximum bend-overage is the Corporate Mantra. The days of and value and service for your hard-earned is OVER.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)