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Frontier Exec Storms Out of Critical West Virginia Meeting
by Bill Neilson 09:10AM Friday Dec 06 2013
Frontier Communications executive Dana Waldo stormed out of a public meeting at the West Virginia Capitol on Wednesday, after he was asked if Frontier's broadband technology would provide households with basic DSL speeds in Tyler County, West Virginia. Waldo got angry while Council members were reviewing grant applications from a Frontier competitor that plans to bring broadband service to Tyler County.

Frontier has been under pressure ever since it was revealed that Frontier, Verizon and Cisco convinced the state to buy ridiculously overpriced, overpowered and unused routers, and hire several ridiculously overpaid consultants who haven't actually accomplished anything. Allegations also suggest Frontier over-inflated fiber deployment costs, and what money that was correctly spent was used primarily to benefit Frontier's internal networks, not to help connect the state's broadband have nots (the entire purpose of the fund).

Meanwhile, the state has been busy burying studies confirming Frontier's behavior. Pressure has increased recently as regional IT company CityNet has been pushing for a real audit of what Frontier has done with all the stimulus money (since they applied themselves). At this week's meeting, Citynet CEO Jim Martin asked Waldo if Frontier's broadband technology would provide households with 4-megabit-per-second download and 1-megabit-per-second upload speeds:
quote:
"I'll have an engineer talk to you about the technology we use on that," said Waldo, senior vice president and general manager of Frontier's West Virginia operations.
When Martin alleged that Frontier's broadband DSL service does not offer the 1-megabit upload speed, Waldo was unable to actually answer the question and instead decided to get personal:
quote:
"That is not correct, Jim," Waldo said. "I wasn't going to bring this up, but I am absolutely beside myself. I feel so sorry for you, that you are so desperate to make you and Citynet relevant and, apparently, keep it afloat. Jim, it's over. I'm done talking to you. I'm done . . . wasting my time responding to your mischaracterizations. I'm not going to sit here and waste my time and hear more of his nonsense," Waldo continued. "I'll excuse myself."
Martin stared back at Waldo and said nothing. After the meeting, Martin said he was just asking a question. He said Frontier's Internet DSL service in rural areas doesn't provide the 1-megabit upload speed -- a minimum standard passed by the Legislature and set into law earlier this year.
quote:
"[Waldo] couldn't defend it," Martin said. "That's why he blew up."
Frontier has little to no credibility left with West Virginia council members. Whether it is Frontier lying about how they had agreed with several competing companies to use their unused fiber lines, Frontier billing West Virginia for fiber costs that had been built for half the price elsewhere, Frontier objecting to other companies trying to build fiber-optic lines, or Frontier being sued for age discrimination, Frontier has shown that it has little to no interest in investing in West Virginia and more an interest in doing whatever it can to increase profits.

As this site has reported on numerous occasions, West Virginia’s broadband expansion project is in complete disarray. Now comes news that due to the broadband dysfunction, West Virginia may be forced to give back $2.5 million of the broadband funds.

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topics flat nest 

ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

Nothing but...

A bunch of babies....
elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

Re: Nothing but...

That's what happens when the government takes your money and doles it out to others. The government NEVER is as careful as a person would be on managing money, since if they run out they just create more. And without proper auditing, there will always be fraud, waste, and abuse.

Those $20k Cisco switches could have been $200 ones, and they could have put ESX servers in each library to serve up VDI to local people IF they had reasonable broadband... Hence why the US continues to have massive gaps in equality.

The USF is probably one of the biggest fleecing of the population ever...If they applied them properly every home in America could have gig fibre 5 years ago and now they could be bedazzling the ONT's with all the surplus funds...

hamburglar_

join:2002-04-29
united state
Reviews:
·ObiVoice

Re: Nothing but...

They could actually pool all the VDI VMs in a central datacenter, or two, and connect to everything remotely. Install some cheap thin client endpoints and a VPN router at the local locations. Done... This does rely on a decent 10-20Mb connection to even the smaller libraries.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:39

6 recommendations

I'm convinced we could have run fiber to the home to everybody in this country five times over with the funds lost to telecom industry fraud and abuse. I have absolutely no doubt of this. Yet the over-arching narrative stumbles on as if none of these previous problems ever existed.
BlueC

join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Integra Telecom

Re: Nothing but...

The fraud goes further than most even imagine. It's a combo of private and public funds.

The industry as a whole could be far more productive (and far more appreciated) had it not been for all this fraud that has occurred over the years. Sadly, it all seems to continue.

dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus

join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

So your argument is, corrupt corporations will always bilk the government, thus the government is at fault?
I presume your alternative is to put the corrupt corporations in charge and cut out the middle man?
In fact it would seem that the government is going after Frontier and with CityNet playing opposition and cheerleader, its how capitalism works.
--
dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

1 recommendation

Re: Nothing but...

I think that is his argument.

I say we go a step further and not only audit it, but then criminally charge the execs involved in it.
15444104
Premium
join:2012-06-11

1 recommendation

Re: Nothing but...

AGREED.

The utter arrogance of that executive PRICK storming out of a public meeting like that. IF anything it proves that the company is guilty of malfeasance at LEAST.

al beeeno

@spcsdns.net
gov't corruption and inefficiency is just as bad - the answer in the private sector is always more competition. the answer in gov't is smaller gov't
Max Greene

join:2000-12-22
Bayonne, NJ
Reviews:
·Boost Mobile
said by dnoyeB:

So your argument is, corrupt corporations will always bilk the government, thus the government is at fault?
I presume your alternative is to put the corrupt corporations in charge and cut out the middle man?
In fact it would seem that the government is going after Frontier and with CityNet playing opposition and cheerleader, its how capitalism works.

Pipe down with all your facts and stuff, that hurts their little corporatist heads.

Commone Sens

@frontiernet.net

2 recommendations

Citynet is the biggest Joke going and anyone on this site that really thinks the government doesnt audit the money they dole out are idiots.. The money is to help the economy and also provide service to underserved areas. Prevailing wage comes into play which is well over $30 a hour for any workers that work on projects the government funds. So you cant just go get Joe Blow contractor who pays its employees $5 a hour or even worse, gets the contract then subs it out to someone else that subs it out to someone else. That is why the Citynets/Lumos of the world cant get government funding, because they dont have the force to meet the requiremnts for the grants. They want the money, but have know way of meeting the build requirments without going out and trying to contract out the work. When your building out into rural areas, you have to set poles and also use power poles which usually have to raise or replace there poles to make space, which all costs money. The routers they keep complaining about worked, someone just decided they were better then what was needed, but its not like they just spent the money on something nobody can find. This guy from Citynets entire complaint is about using the Frontier network for free. He thinks because government funds were used to build parts of the network they should just be able to use it for free. What he is missing is the upkeep of the network, who pays for that? Frontier absorbs all the risk and cost to maintain the plant, so obviously they are not going to let people freeload on it. As for speeds in WV.. WV has the best network infastructure of any state in the country by far. They are the only State that has a true ethernet backbone connecting every CO in the State without going thru any competitors equipment. Hundreds of sites have been turned up within the last couple of years, all cappable of 25/2 speeds so everything this Citynet guy is saying is wrong, which is why the Frontier person prob is tired of messing with him. Whoever moderates this DSLreports site is obviously bias to Citynet or they would stop posting the same stuff over and over. Do you really think the government hasnt had auditers all over this looking at every single job and every single dollar that has been spent..

Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

Re: Nothing but...

I don't have any bias towards anyone at Frontier or anyone in West Virginia.

You state that "WV has the best network infastructure of any state in the country by far" but can you show me any sort of proof that West Virginia speeds are anything but utterly atrocious? Frontier is telling people in WV that they have a great backbone yet Netflix had Frontier DEAD LAST in their stats poll done for 2011 - »stopthecap.com/2011/06/23/fronti···-winner/

In fact, I struggle to find anything that is actually positive on Frontier when it comes to their performance. Frontier keeps acting like the people in West Virginia should thank them if Frontier even tries to branch out yet Frontier continues applying for and accepting GOVERNMENT MONEY and continue getting local tax breaks. »wvmetronews.com/2013/09/13/front···oadband/

You said a lot but didn't back up anything. The routers comment....you have a link? Best backbone? Link?

If I am wrong, I have no issue admitting it.

common sens

@mycingular.net

Re: Nothing but...

So your knowledge of Frontiers network is based on Netflix reports that have many articles stating they are bias towards any ISP that doesn't subscribe to there premium traffic plans. Google it.. it is also a fact that Frontier in WV doesn't have to go thru any other carriers for ethernet services. When you talk about speed, there is a difference between what the network can do vs what people will pay for. I can get 25 meg at my house but I only subscribe to 12 meg service. Every piece of equipment on Frontiers ethernet backbone can do 25/2 service.

Bill Neilson
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Arlington, VA

Re: Nothing but...

So it is a big bad conspiracy by Netflix? Brilliant

Tweakbl

join:2008-09-25
Rosedale, WV
Reviews:
·HughesNet Satell..
So....since there is such great speeds how about fixing Calhoun County up around Chloe......its been reported to death that it is having issues......

And I am still waiting on Rosedale WV to get a green light after thousands of dollars spent.....O yeah thats right Frontier does not have the hardware set at the Network center to map it all out to.
Expand your moderator at work

common sens

@frontiernet.net

Re: Nothing but...

Here you go.. Addresses the 3 topics you mention..

Routers- »www.businessinsider.com/cisco-to···a-2013-3
Netflix- »Netflix CDN Partners Soar in Latest Netflix ISP Rankings
Backbone- »www.lightwaveonline.com/articles···314.html

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
said by Commone Sens :

As for speeds in WV.. WV has the best network infastructure of any state in the country by far. They are the only State that has a true ethernet backbone connecting every CO in the State without going thru any competitors equipment.

California is covered by the two largest ILECs in the nation; along with a number of smaller, regional ILECs, and CLECs. SBC built out an Ethernet backbone; as did, presumably, Verizon. When I was with SBC (which bought AT&T, then rebranded as same), I could trace from my aggregation router to any other SBC/AT&T user aggregation router and never leave AS7132 for another Autonomous System. I could even trace from the Santa Clara, California aggregation router to a Chicago, Illinois aggregation router, and stay on AS7132 the entire way.

Are there no CLECs in West Virginia? My current ISP is a CLEC with its own DSLAMS; no need to ride the ILEC transit network, except for the Last Mile, which they pay the ILEC for.

And, based on what I see in the Frontier forums, compared with the larger ILEC, and two of the CLECs, we have faster, more reliable connections.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

common sens

@mycingular.net

Re: Nothing but...

You are wrong on all levels.. the States you reference all lease circuits from other carriers to carry traffic. WV is the only State that doesn't have to do that.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12

1 edit

Re: Nothing but...

The "states" lease networks? I don't think so. BTW, what are the VPC pair used on Frontier circuits? Are Frontier modems different from other carriers? Or are they ATM/PPPoE?

Common Sens

@frontiernet.net

Re: Nothing but...

If you really think the States you mentioned do not lease circuits how do they get around the areas they dont have CO's in. The only way a carrier isnt leasing service is if they own the entire footprint that they operate in, which is not the case in any of the States you mention. So there network will always be restricted to the speed of the interconnect circuits that they purchase, where in WV that is not the case.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: Nothing but...

said by Common Sens :

If you really think the States you mentioned do not lease circuits how do they get around the areas they dont have CO's in.

I am not aware that the State of California leases any circuits, other than those used by the state; the ISPs own their circuits. I can't find an example, but I did a couple of trace routes from 'pltn13.pacbell.net' to 'irvnca.pacbell', and never left SBC transit (AS7132). For the record, sir, that is ~350 miles (between COs) as the crow flies.

BTW, ALL carriers, even Frontier West Virginia, lease interconnect circuits unless they have built themselves an "intranet". At some point your traffic has to leave your provider's transit to get to Google, or Yahoo!, or Netflix.

So there network will always be restricted to the speed of the interconnect circuits that they purchase ...

Funny thing ... when I run Hulu on my Sony BD player, it shows my speed at near the max. For any type of DSL, speed is limited by the distance between the premises and the CO.

BTW, show me the leased circuit in this trace:
Tracing route to ipv4_1.lagg0.c046.sjc002.ix.nflxvideo.net [198.45.62.155]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  Chihiro [192.168.102.1]
  2    30 ms    31 ms    35 ms  173-228-7-1.dsl.static.sonic.net [173.228.7.1]
  3    30 ms    30 ms    31 ms  gig1-4.cr1.lsatca11.sonic.net [70.36.243.13]
  4    47 ms    50 ms    46 ms  0.xe-5-1-0.gw.pao1.sonic.net [69.12.211.1]
  5    39 ms    30 ms    32 ms  ae2.0.gw.equinix-sj.sonic.net [50.0.2.14]
  6    31 ms    31 ms    32 ms  netflix-peering.sonic.net [209.148.113.10]
  7    30 ms    30 ms    31 ms  ipv4_1.lagg0.c046.sjc002.ix.nflxvideo.net [198.45.62.155]
 
Trace complete.
 
(If you can!)

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Common Sens

@frontiernet.net
See the link above under Backbone.. Frontier has been migrating from ATM to the new network for the past couple of years and you can see from the Article that WV purchased the majority of the equipment replaced in the network. So back to my original post.. I am referring to WV, not the rest of Frontier because WV is the topic of discussion in this Thread of how the government isnt getting anything for there money in WV. That is simply not true, so people shouldnt keep posting things from competitors to Frontier that arent happy because Frontier wont let them leach off the network.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: Nothing but...

said by Common Sens :

Frontier has been migrating from ATM to the new network for the past couple of years ...

And AT&T has not? Do you think U-verse IPDSL is ATM? Think again.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Common Sens

@frontiernet.net

Re: Nothing but...

What does that have to do with WV waisting government money and not upgrading the network? The whole issue on this site is about WV stealing money and not using it to benefit the network in WV. ATT doesnt even provide service in WV..

Up to here

@192.33.116.x

1 edit
said by Commone Sens :

Frontier absorbs all the risk and cost to maintain the plant, so obviously they are not going to let people freeload on it. As for speeds in WV.. WV has the best network infastructure of any state in the country by far. They are the only State that has a true ethernet backbone connecting every CO in the State without going thru any competitors equipment. Hundreds of sites have been turned up within the last couple of years, all cappable of 25/2 speeds so everything this Citynet guy is saying is wrong, which is why the Frontier person prob is tired of messing with him.

Really??? REALLY??? You obviously don't live in Pocahontas County. Yes, there is a fiber backbone, but that does nothing if the equipment used is so old it doesn't know a bit from a byte. You want facts? My speed report from last night shows 94kbps down and 74kbps up, latency 233ms. Ok, how about last June. 66kbps down, 78kbps up and 359 latency. That's KBPS! A dial-up modem would do better! Don't tell me how good my service is. I've got the log that proves how insufferable my speeds are. And I pay Frontier for WifiMax. Why don't I choose another carrier? Because THERE ARE NO OTHER carriers. And Frontier fights EVERY carrier that wants to move in tooth and nail. I've got 4 years of speed logs to prove my point.

Tweakbl

join:2008-09-25
Rosedale, WV
Reviews:
·HughesNet Satell..
So when is your boss gonna give the go ahead to turn on the DSLAM that was sit last year In Rosedale WV? The Fiber and Hardware are on the ground. Fiber has been ran for over a year and the DSLAM has sit there since Christmas Eve 2012.

James Martin brings up valid concerns. Currently it looks like Frontier cannot meet the needs that the Stim Money bought.

Also. The Prevailing Wage thing. You and I both know there are workarounds with that. I myself worked for the Concrete company that Poured the New Federal Prison in Glenville WV......I made $7.50 a HOUR driving Concrete truck because my boss bid the contract to the Feds below Prevailing Wage.

Tweakbl

join:2008-09-25
Rosedale, WV
Also currently there is no backbone in WV. The main ones all go around us.
Yeah, see James Martins site for more info.

»www.westvirginia.com/broadband/maps.cfm
sparky007

join:2011-08-25
Avondale, AZ
Bunch of babies that have a loaded diaper since there full of crap!!!
biochemistry
Premium
join:2003-05-09
92361

1 edit

1 recommendation

Wow

You are one of the vice presidents of a telecommunications company and you need an engineer to tell you what internet speed your company provides? Wow! I know a guy on the corner begging for food if Frontier is looking for another vice president to replace this guy.

Secondly, where is the video of this guy storming out?
--
Unicorns! Show ponies! Where's the beef?!

dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus

join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

3 recommendations

Re: Wow

I feel like this is the way the rich and powerful want it. They believe a manager does not need to know anything about the thing he manages. He only needs to know about the people.

This is why we don't learn anything from our boss anymore. Apprenticeship is way down. The empowerment era was reversing that, but there was a quiet backlash against empowerment. We are back to top down management again...
--
dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16
BlueC

join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:1

Re: Wow

Well said.

After all, how else can you trust your "experts" if you don't even understand what they do? Such an illogical way about doing business today, yet it's quite common in the telco world.
BlueC

join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Integra Telecom
said by biochemistry:

You are one of the vice presidents of telecommunications company and you need an engineer to tell you what internet speed your company provides? Wow! I know a guy on the corner begging for food if Frontier is looking for another vice president to replace this guy.

Secondly, where is the video of this guy storming out?

Nothing new. Follow the trend with some telcos out there. The execs near/at the top seem to jump from one company to another, bringing their friends with them. It ends up being a numbers game, they know very little about the actual technology.

The history of M&As out there is simply disgusting. Companies get destroyed by mismanagement, only to get bought out by a bigger mess. Then it gets so big no one knows what's going on anymore.

diablo1892
R.I.P. Donald Lee Wise

join:2011-04-21
Friendly, WV
kudos:1

Tyler county, thats me

Speeds are just awesome. Thank you frontier!

Shawn808

@rr.com

Frontier just go away PLEASE

Every day I wish this poor excuse of a telecommunications company would die....

I live in Rochester NY where we have time warner and frontier battling it out for customers.... too bad DSL died in the 90's.

Anyway Rochester is surrounded by Verizion FIOS but inside Rochester frontier has the poles on lock down. Only hope we had for a competitive company to levy against time warner with customer enticements is frontier and that is like comparing a dead snail to a doped up Thoroughbred horse.

If I had the choice between time warner or FTTH FIOS I'd drop the measly 5Mb upload cable for a real upstream pipe. Cant even stream 720p with 5MB upload without it having video compression artifacts. Nothing like having a Porsche with no reverse.... JUST DO US ALL A FAVOR FRONTIER close your doors and take your 35 KBS upload with you. Your holding Rochester hostage by not even stepping up to the 21st century and bringing what all your customers want. A SOLID DATA PIPE. Copper is dead... and your customers want to surf the web, stream video, watch video at the speed of light.

••••••

ConnerM

@frontiernet.net

Frontier DSL

Had frontier for years due to lack of options. We have frontier DSL at our house in Jefferson co, and our cabin way out in Tucker co WV. We get upload speeds of around 750 up / 2 down at the house and 250 / 750-1 down at the cabin. Takes forever to upload a file from the cabin, too slow for anything meaningful like remote web work, etc. Both are business class DSL connections with static IP's and cost around $90 a month each. Best we can get in these areas, and they know it.

Meanwhile I've got a 6mb down / 2mb up connection at my business location in Winchester though Comcast for $45 month.

barbour

@184.13.138.x

Frontier service

I know Frontier's service sucks in Barbour County too. When questioned about it, they treat you like backwood hicks who know nothing. Service in my area is lucky to get 1M down and 160 up.
MrBungle87

join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC

Same old story

Classic Frontier incompetence and malevolence. West Virginia really got shafted, too, and the government doesn't seem to be doing much of anything about it. In any event, this douchebag Waldo needs to be fired--sooner rather than later.

spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
kudos:1

Puppeteer

Wildesnotter had her hand up Waldos' arse and together were giving the show of their lives.

yolarry

join:2007-12-29
Creston, WV
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
·HughesNet Satell..

No problems.

I have no problems with frontier so far. getting decent speed here expect for the upload in Wirt WV. Post to be 2 mbps




I haven't did any work on the inside wire here but who knows how old that stuff is.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

do the right thing

WHY is it so hard for companies to do the right thing in WV?!?

Are they just that stupid and gullible down there that they will fall for any scheme to defraud and/or corruption?

Let's finally dispel the stereotype and get some smarts into the folk...
MrBungle87

join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..
·Time Warner Cable

Remember this?

»www.businesswire.com/news/home/2···06655/en

"“These infrastructure investments will dramatically improve the Internet experience for our West Virginia customers and offer superior redundancy and scalability for future products and services,” said Ken Arndt, president of Frontier’s Southeast Region. “When complete, West Virginia will be a model for next-generation intra-state network design, providing robust IPV4, IPV6 and MPLS VPN services.“"

LOLOLOLOLOL

lucious

@frontiernet.net

Duh

Nice article. To the point and very relevant. I am tired of the broken promises that Frontier continue to issue. I was suppose to have a real 1.5Mbps ds and 256Kbps us connection but nope not yet...it has been a year since that promise. There is a television channel from Germany that wants to do a story on this, I wonder if this will help light that fire under Frontier's toes? I hope so.

Good post guy!
W