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Frontier FiOS TV Customers See Huge Rate Hike
As Frontier says goodbye to the TV business...
When Frontier acquired Verizon's unwanted networks across fourteen states, the deal included about 100,000 FiOS customers, who'll be getting a new post-acquisition present for the new year. The Oregonian is the first to report that Frontier will be increasing the cost of TV service for these acquired customers by as much as 46%. For example, the the 220-channel standard package will rise from $65 to $95 a month. Raising rates even beyond local cable competition is essentially an admission that the company wants nothing to do with the TV business and hopes to just milk these customers for a little while before they flee. Yet Frontier tells the Oregonian that they're "committed to" FiOS:
quote:
"Part of the challenge we have, compared to other providers, is that our footprint is so small," said Frontier spokeswoman Stephanie Beasly. "They're able to spread (the cost of programming) out over a much larger customer footprint."...."It (FiOS) is a service that we are committed to, so we are looking at opportunities and options to ensure that our customers get the best product," she said.
Frontier may be "committed to" FiOS, but they're certainly not committed to FiOS TV. The company tells the Seattle Times they'll be trying to offload many of these customers to DirecTV by offering a free year of satellite TV. It seems like if Frontier wanted out of the TV business because they can't afford programming (which may prove to be a good idea if Internet video explodes), they should just get out of the TV business. Using ridiculous price hikes as a way to milk last second revenue out of these customers before driving them to DirecTV -- seems somewhat punitive. You also have to wonder why Frontier's inability to support TV service wasn't more fully considered before the deal was approved by regulators.
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Chris 313
Because It's Geekier
Premium Member
join:2004-07-18
Houma, LA

Chris 313

Premium Member

Pathetic

Just simply pathetic. I feel sorry for Frontier FiOS customers that have TV as well. Committed to FiOS? Ha! More like bend over!
sgip2000
join:2004-05-05
Hillsboro, OR

sgip2000

Member

Re: Pathetic

Yeah, I just had to cancel and go back to Comcast. Very sad.

siouxmoux2
@sbcglobal.net

siouxmoux2

Anon

Re: Pathetic

Frontier Is Now The Worst ISP and TV Provider in US. If you are Frontier Customers I would Cancels your service right now.
jaywv3010
join:2003-04-02

jaywv3010

Member

Re: Pathetic

Don't forget worst telephone provider too.
facher83
join:2011-02-03

facher83 to siouxmoux2

Member

to siouxmoux2
Why?

I have it at home. A lot better than a shared Comcast internet line that gets sub 1 meg upload speeds. I get 35 up and 35 down. ON speed tests, it's 26 meg down ad 34 meg up.

Where do I go to get that kind of speed and uncompressed TV signals?

I'm on the top Fios package currently, and even with a $30 increase in two years it'll be 169.99 base price, 15.99 for my DVR, and about $20 in taxes.

I could switch to Comcarap for far, far less internet speed and worse TV service for a lot more money. Heck, I could run 10 Comcast users on my internet connection the speeds I get.

Comcast's advertised first tier "HD" triple play is 129.99 base price. Some of these Fios folks have been on packages that were top-grade 4 years ago at sub-$100 base prices.

Call me crazy, but Comcast's deal is worse.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

1 recommendation

tshirt to Chris 313

Premium Member

to Chris 313
They are commited to FIOS, at least the existing areas,, because they paid a fortune for that next gen. last mile delivery network, but large scale addtional rollouts are unlikely for a long time, given their high debt load.
However the total number TV subs, especially spread here and there across their footprint can't pay the cost of programing, let alone maintaining the hardware and tech training to keep it going at current pricing.
raising the prices WILL drive out many (either to the sat. or local cable offering) which will make the economics even worse. Eventually frontier will be totally out of the CATV biz.
Hopefully they can sucessfully manage the internet/last mile phone business at/near the current rates.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Pathetic

said by tshirt:

However the total number TV subs, especially spread here and there across their footprint can't pay the cost of programing, let alone maintaining the hardware and tech training to keep it going at current pricing.

Then they never should have purchased the systems to begin with. I'd be pretty sure with my guess that they had to let the various government departments involved in the purchase/sale of the systems that they could in fact operate the systems.. and clearly they can't.

I"m sure you're correct in that they'd have a hard time operating the service. However, while they may have a harder time running it as Verizon had, there are other options where the service very much could be sustained.. HITS is one option. Many small rurual mom and pops use it and don't cry about rates, and force their customers off.

There is a system in Huxley Iowa called Huxxcom, and half of their system is in fact fiber. However, they manage to offer a full basic analog based cable service for about $45 a month and digital cable is $55 a month. They're main business focus is actually telephone, but they also run a fiber/coax and fiber only cable system along side. So what's Frontier's problem?
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Pathetic

a national network where they don't own any backbone to transport anything; nor a national headend- let alone 2 of them. Also a SHIT load of debt.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Pathetic

said by hottboiinnc4:

a national network where they don't own any backbone to transport anything; nor a national headend- let alone 2 of them. Also a SHIT load of debt.

Thank you for proving my point.. then they never should have been allowed to buy these systems in the first place if they're head deep in debt.

By the way.. no one needs a 'national head end' to operate a successful network. You can take that out of your talking points memo because it's not a valid argument - just a lazy one.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt to fiberguy2

Premium Member

to fiberguy2
I looked them up... prices are a little high (particularly the internet) as compared to my comcast bill, but not suprising for a small, semi rural co-op.

The difference is they grew their system along with demand to fit local needs, in a fairly consolidated footprint, where Frontier bought existing parts of a big system at the high end of the market, as part of an all or nothing deal.
Remeber the gov't really only had interest/authority in controlling the telephone/landline portion of the sale, which frontier seems to be operating successfully ( so far ) I think frontier wasn't really that thrilled with the fios (and the tv service) part of the deal, but accepted that in order to get the wireline phone and DSL plant.
They did assume alot of new debt, but this is a high cash flow business so that may be manageable, IF they don't do major rebuilds and stop subsidizing the tv service.
Notice Verizon sold out once they realized they could not profitable manage AND buildout fios EVERYWHERE in their system at once/in a timely manner.
ie the economics of a nationwide fiber build where more difficult and expensive than they original planned for, and the pay back/take rate is much slower than projected. (take note that verizons FIOS TV rates are also about to take a huge jump, so even on a larger scale with a newly consolidated footprint the tv portion was a 'loss leader', which will no longer be as subsidized in order to gain market share
nightsider
join:2011-01-06
Fort Wayne, IN

nightsider to fiberguy2

Member

to fiberguy2
They are pricing themselves out of the TV service. They lease the service from Verizon still because they don't have the infrastructure or headends for cable. I doubt highly that Verizon raised their prices that much and the fact that they say they are paying the programming providers is pure bull&*%$. As an employee and tech we know a lot of what goes on and NOTHING about this makes any sense except the fact that they want out of tv service.

pjhofmann
join:2000-08-22
Argyle, TX

pjhofmann to Chris 313

Member

to Chris 313
No mention of Triple Play increases but I assume the increase will be rolled into all the bundles. I wish I could cut the cord but the wife and kiddies are not ready for that change.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2 to Chris 313

Premium Member

to Chris 313
This is one subject that most people may be shocked to here my response to..

But, we as a society and in government make certain decisions in which help us move forward. This is a major step backwards.

While I don't know the verbiage of the agreement inked between Verizon and Fontier and what the all the various government agencies wanted in this merger, however, this is one that I think should be retroactively revoked.

Verizon went in to build out advanced TV services to areas and did so, very well. Yes, they wanted out of those areas and that's fine. But, the next owner should be moving forward, not backwards. In other words, Frontier wants to be a phone company, we get it! So why in the world did they go buy a fiber based network then? Clearly they wanted the subscriber base and nothing more.

It would be nice to see the government agencies require Verizon to repurchase the systems and/or condemn them, seize them and sell them to a provider that actually will operate them as they were built and intended.

I hope and pray that the competing cable operators in the area toss out unbeatable introductory offers and drain Frontier of their customer base and teach them a lesson.

The rate hikes that Frontier Fios is asking for, alone, should be investigated by the government.

I mean, does anyone else not see the potential for law suits here? I'm sure that gas stations would love to simply raise their price from $3 a gallon to $6 a gallon too, but they wouldn't be allowed to, legally.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Pathetic

CaTV is NOT a regulated product. That's the thing. and NEVER will be. Although there are reports where gas will be above $6 by the start of next year. Exxon-Mobile and Shell is even noting that.

As far as seizing the network and selling it? That would surely get the Gov't all fired up with law suits and will NEVER happen. The Gov't has no legal power really to do so. As long as the Telephone stays in contact; well then, kiss your TV good bye really as you already have another provider in your area. This is jus an over built product. The states can NOT force them to keep operating the network; and the FCC has NO legal power over the CaTV business like they claim.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Pathetic

Thanks for the lecture on something I know far more about than you ever will.

You failed, as usual, to see the point.

Gas isn't necessarily regulated either. (MN, however, has small rules that state they must sell it for X amount over cost, but that's really not regulation) However, there are in fact laws that stop gauging.

I already pointed to examples, which you didn't read.

PLEASE stop acting like a know it all.. you're often wrong.

Typing in all CAPS and in absolute doesn't make you any smarter. By the way, where did I mention the FCC?

biggbrother
Premium Member
join:2001-11-07
Providence, RI

biggbrother

Premium Member

Why Do They Keep the FIOS Name?

Curious? I wonder why Verizon allowed them to keep the FIOS brand name? Would seem to tarnish the overall brand image. Especially if Verizon ever decides to return to that market in the future.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Why Do They Keep the FIOS Name?

cause it is still FiOS. Where do you think their getting their programming and network operations from? You don't think they went out and built their own national headend over night do you? They actually lease it from VZ and the TV portion of the network.

biggbrother
Premium Member
join:2001-11-07
Providence, RI

biggbrother

Premium Member

Re: Why Do They Keep the FIOS Name?

said by hottboiinnc4:

You don't think they went out and built their own national headend over night do you?

Well yeah. The article, and the one published 7 months ago, states that they would have to negotiate with all the broadcasters individually, something they did not have experience in doing. The article also mentions that this put Frontier at a significant disadvantage because they did not have the national clout that Verizon had to negotiate better pricing. So it would seem they are not using Verizon's headend.

The article makes no mention of any lease with Verizon, nor that they are receiving any programming from Verizon. It simply states that they purchased their state-of-the-art fiber optic network,

As far as I know, FIOS is a brand name thought up by Verizon. It is not what "fiber on poles" is called.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Why Do They Keep the FIOS Name?

you are correct. but it takes MONTHS to build out a national headhead let alone 2 of them. Something Frontier can NOT afford. It makes more SENSE for them to just do it this way.

Now if they were smart; they'd move away from this and move it all to IPTV and say screw the actual TV product and just run it over the Internet. VZ would have done the same as well. The products do exsit for this and is available to the public. And this site being an article? More like a half as blog.
Answer Guy
join:2006-07-28
Grass Lake, MI

Answer Guy

Member

Re: Why Do They Keep the FIOS Name?

Moving it to IPTV doesn't get them out of the rebroadcast rights that would have to be at the heart of the cost increase. We have no idea what the cost to obtain the signal from Vz is actually costing Frontier, so we really have two unknowns in this case.

Also, we don't know if Frontier is forced to keep the same number of channels as Vz for each tier of service. That could be something else in the contract. It seems to make more sense for Frontier to drop channels in each tier to keep the cost similar, but maybe a small price increase.

ftr emp
@144.70.2.x

ftr emp to biggbrother

Anon

to biggbrother
Frontier is indeed buying the content from Verizon. Frontier had no choice but to buy Fios TV in the deal. Verizon is charging Frontier a fortune for programming. The only profitable Fios market they purchased was Fort Wayne, IN. The other two markets were not profitable for Verizon either (not enough subscribers, yet), it is a LONG term deployment that Frontier is likely not interested in investing in. My concern is that if they increase prices as stated here, they will lose all the business, not just video. Consumers want a single telecommunications provider...it's a sad fact that this is yet another company to be jacked by Verizon, so they could off load unwanted business.
Mark F1
join:2007-08-01
Fort Wayne, IN

Mark F1

Member

Re: Why Do They Keep the FIOS Name?

If we were so profitable, why are we facing the final Frontier?

The anti-FIOS commercial, with Shaq inviting outraged Frontier subscribers to X-Finity, was strange. Comcast hasn't changed their offerings here very much since we left them.

But, not wanting to lose beautiful trees make satelite TV out of the question, so we will wait and see what happens.

If Frontier gets too expensive, if they take away services, if the quality drops, if they really pare back their great channel lineup, if we get too fed up with their antics, then we may be saying "Hello" to Shaq.

And, I shudder to think about that option.
Mark F.
rifleman69
join:2006-04-12
Beaverton, OR

rifleman69 to biggbrother

Member

to biggbrother
said by biggbrother:

Curious? I wonder why Verizon allowed them to keep the FIOS brand name? Would seem to tarnish the overall brand image. Especially if Verizon ever decides to return to that market in the future.

VZ owns the copyright, it's just being "lent" to Frontier for at least two years. Nothing more, nothing less.

Scatcatpdx
Fur It Up
join:2007-06-22
Portland, OR

Scatcatpdx

Member

It all depends

To me it it about the same if the package included all premium cable channels or not. Ie. HBO, Starz.
Scatcatpdx

Scatcatpdx

Member

Re: It all depends

I stand corrected they want to kill fios TV.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: It all depends

says who? Karl?
br0adbanddoc
join:2001-12-31
Wilkes Barre, PA

br0adbanddoc

Member

Shows the plans for the future...

I guess this really rules out Frontier doing a terrestrial video launch anywhere else then...

Chris 313
Because It's Geekier
Premium Member
join:2004-07-18
Houma, LA

1 recommendation

Chris 313

Premium Member

Re: Shows the plans for the future...

Yeah. They're keeping that slow DSL in 99% of their footprint where they can charge you 200 a month for only 3 meg DSL at most! State of the art, huh?
AndyDufresne
Premium Member
join:2010-10-30
Chanhassen, MN

AndyDufresne

Premium Member

30.00 increase needs some explanation

Seem way out of the norm. Either newspaper got some bad information or Frontier is getting shafted by programmers and needs to tell their customoers exactly why their bill is going up 30.00 bucks.

Jim Kirk
Premium Member
join:2005-12-09
49985

Jim Kirk

Premium Member

Re: 30.00 increase needs some explanation

Frontier may be "committed to" FiOS, but they're certainly not committed to FiOS TV. The company tells the Seattle Times they'll be trying to offload many of these customers to DirecTV by offering a free year of satellite TV.

I think that statement proves that it's not programming cost. They just don't want to be in the TV business.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt

Premium Member

Re: 30.00 increase needs some explanation

read the times article, it's not they don't want to, they can't afford to (or much of anything else )

woody7
Premium Member
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA

woody7

Premium Member

Re: 30.00 increase needs some explanation

yea, just keep those mergers coming, what a great benefit for the consumer! /
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4 to tshirt

Member

to tshirt
nobody is going to read anything else. If its been posted on this blog then its true and only Karl knows what he's talking about. It's this way all the time with companies that he doesn't like nor pays advertising. This site is becoming more like Fox every day; one sided blog posts and thats all.

Edit Add: and when you say anything about it; your post is removed by a Mod/System for "flamming" gotta love that eh?

JasonOD
@comcast.net

JasonOD

Anon

Can't really blame them......

Offering TV service to the tiniest fraction of their base means no market negotiating power and a real mess keeping up with menus, on-demand, etc. FIOS internet on the other hand, is a cheap and profitable way to keep their hand in the fiber game and a percentage of their employees gaining and retaining their working experience with fiber installs.

It stinks they had to go the route of punitive pricing to withdraw from the TV market, but they were likely required to offer it as part of the deal and don't really have another choice.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Can't really blame them......

they are NOT withdrawing from the market. They had to raise rates to STAY in the market.

spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium Member
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
·Consolidated Com..

spewak

Premium Member

Despicable

I despise Frontier, a s--t ton more than most on this site. This situation is such a desperate, underhanded move heretofore unseen and unparalleled in their crappy history, that even I am shocked. Wow!
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Despicable

blah blah blah..... You don't even know the details and are spouting off about nothing when you don't even know their business.

HotRodFoto
Premium Member
join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO

HotRodFoto

Premium Member

sad

Now THAT is price gouging

••••
AndyDufresne
Premium Member
join:2010-10-30
Chanhassen, MN
Ubiquiti EdgeRouter ERPro8
Netgear R7000

AndyDufresne

Premium Member

From Seattle link Karl added at bottom

Rates are going up because the cost of content is increasing, and Frontier doesn't have the scale to absorb those costs, spokeswoman Stephanie Beasly said.

"The pricing is going up - the cost of providing content is going up," she said. "We're not able to offset that pricing in our market."

The must be getting the shaft from programmers to increase rates that much. They just have to know customers are going to jump ship.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: From Seattle link Karl added at bottom

and you notice Karl leaves that part out eh? Gotta love it! One sided "news"

RWSI
@twtelecom.net

RWSI

Anon

New Technology

Maybe it's time for a wireless ISP to come into the market. In Albuquerque we are making a killing because of the stupidity going on here.

The power of the Internet compels you!

••••••
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

no good deed

no good deed (approval of frontier split of verizon bad roi geographies) goes unrewarded. let's see how many video subscribers they end up with a year from now.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: no good deed

read the link Karl posted NOT what he has to say.

Zero5
join:2009-07-01
Collegeville, PA

Zero5

Member

This quote pretty much sums it up

From the Oregon Live article:
"It's essentially a white flag surrender and an exit from the head-to-head video competition," lamented David Olson, director of the Mt. Hood Cable Regulatory Commission.

Can't think of a better way to describe it myself.
rifleman69
join:2006-04-12
Beaverton, OR

rifleman69

Member

Re: This quote pretty much sums it up

Call up and ask for credits, upgrades, and a price guarantee if you're not under a contract already. I upgraded my internet from 20/5 to 25/25 and 12 months of Cinemax/HBO for a $10 increase from current prices and a one year price lock.

You'd be surprised what you can get from the CSR's who know about the situation today.

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru

MVM

Well that explains it...

Click for full size
At least we now know how they are paying for the free laptops and HDTVs they are giving away to new subs.
mikbro
join:2008-04-03
Lynnwood, WA

mikbro

Member

Bundle rates have not gone up...

And I just renewed my contract (triple play bundle) for the next two years at current rates... They will have to physically disconnect my service before I go back to overcompressed Directv or Comcast

••••
Bob61571
join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL

Bob61571

Member

Fort Wayne, Indiana....?

Fort Wayne Frontier FiOS users....
Have they done this rate hike there yet?

ftr emp
@144.70.2.x

ftr emp

Anon

Re: Fort Wayne, Indiana....?

No rate hike that we've heard about, and if you have a 2 year deal, there won't be one until it runs out.

kordkutters
@verizon.net

kordkutters

Anon

kord kutters unite

get rid of your OVERPRICED and/or obsolete services (if they let you), muhahaha...

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· p_fPH4UQ

Shadowman
@verizon.net

Shadowman

Anon

Triple Play

Just took on a two year Triple Play deal before Christmas. I wonder how they will get rid of us inside of two years? I would likely have dumped them anyway since their regular prices are way out of line.

davegtestr
join:2001-11-07
Bothell, WA

davegtestr

Member

Re: Triple Play

Frontier still offers the Extreme, Freedom Essentials and 25/25 Mbps Triple-Play for $124.95 as of today. The price a year ago was $120 including MGM and the Sports channels, and was 15 Mb down as well. The 'install' is scheduled tomorrow. The first month is $74.95. Not bad... I have to decide whether to keep the Triple-Play-Directv for 11 mos. 'nearly free' at 112/mo. incl HD-DVR. and free movie channels install. The latest news affects FiOS TV only and double-play people the most.

kmb40
join:2004-08-02
Fort Washington, MD

kmb40

Member

Telcos are Neanderthals

Telcos do what they want when they want.

Customers just have to deal with it.

No innovation. Could they have simply offered Direct TV while continuing the FIOS offering? Could they have kepy the FIOS rates the same and just not offered the rates to NEW subscribers until they all churned away? Could they have analyzed the product and improved / expanded it?

Very poor Neanderthal mindset. No innovative thinking in regards to the customer.

I guess you can do that when you have no real competition in most of your footprint.