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Frontier Pretends Not To Be Worried About Google Fiber Expansion

Last year, Frontier Communications CEO Maggie Wilderotter stated that people don't really need 1 Gbps, and that the 3 to 6 Mbps most of her customers can get was just fine for most people. Last summer, trying to downplay the fact said 3-6 Mbps is painfully uncompetitive, Wilderotter called Google Fiber "hype" that "confuses customers," and that even talking about 1 Gbps services was something that was "disrespectful" to the customer base.

With Google Fiber now expanding its turf into portions of Frontier's backyard, the company insists it's very excited about offering 1 Gbps services, even if those services are largely reserved to a few high-end housing developments.

"We are making good progress on the expansion of our existing fiber network allowing us to expand FiberOffice and FiberHouse Gigabit services," Frontier tells WRAL Techwire. "Significant progress is being made in downtown Durham particularly. We are also actively in discussions with several new developments all over Durham County and have committed to several projects that are taking shape in 2015."

The problem for Frontier is that while they're heavily embracing "fiber to the press release" for high-end developments, a great number of the company's actual customers remain on sluggish sub 6 Mbps DSL lines the company long thought "good enough" (read: there wasn't enough competition to spur improvement). Frontier still refuses to give solid numbers when it comes to just how many users can actually get their faster speeds, or just how many areas they plan to deploy to -- in both cases because it's not very many.

While Google Fiber may be limited in its own right, it at least spurs many of these companies to compete after years of only competition pantomime.
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spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium Member
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA

spewak

Premium Member

Wildesnotter, you ......

She keeps her thumb on the pulse of a dead and dying infrastructure. No competition is where she and Frontier do their worst.
pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora

Premium Member

Re: Wildesnotter, you ......

She can't compete, what else is she going to say?

NOCMan
MadMacHatter
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO

NOCMan

Premium Member

Re: Wildesnotter, you ......

Frontier, Verizon, AT&T, and the Cable Companies can all compete just fine. It's high time the investors learn the investing part of investing vs. the profit part.

neill6705
join:2014-08-09

1 edit

neill6705

Member

Re: Wildesnotter, you ......

They can compete, but if they don't they can keep everyone on last century technology and make even more profit. Where's the incentive to roll out fiber or DOCSIS 3.1 in that?

iamlucky13
@205.234.66.x

iamlucky13 to pandora

Anon

to pandora
She doesn't have to compete.

There's zero credible threat of Google Fiber stealing Frontier customers because Google is cherry-picking high density markets, where as Frontier operates overwhelmingly in low density areas.

Doug Huffman
join:2007-07-27
Washington Island, WI

Doug Huffman

Member

May I have some 6 MBps, please, or even 3 MBps ...

3 MBps would be twice what i am GLAD of now.
lawpdx
join:2014-04-16
Portland, OR

lawpdx

Member

Re: May I have some 6 MBps, please, or even 3 MBps ...

said by Doug Huffman:

3 MBps would be twice what i am GLAD of now.

Maybe 3Mbps is more like twice what you are GLAD of now.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Right and Wrong...

She is right that most people really don't need 1Gbps but wrong that 3-6 is just fine for a lot of users today. I really doubt that Frontier is all that worried about Google Fiber and really has no need to be worried anytime soon. I doubt that many if any Frontier markets are on Google's radar right now.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz

Member

Re: Right and Wrong...

said by battleop:

I doubt that many if any Frontier markets are on Google's radar right now.

Durham has Frontier, where Google is going. Portland has Frontier, on Google's radar, not sure about the others. Given that Google offers 5M for nearly free, Frontier should be concerned. ISPs that offer a decent speed tier for much less than GF should be able to compete fine, but most won't be able to compete with GF on the high or low end for data.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Re: Right and Wrong...

"Given that Google offers 5M for nearly free"

Not that I'm for anything Frontier but if anyone else did that it would be called predatory pricing. Today and in the near future this sounds great but what's it going to be like in 5-10 years when there are even fewer choices for internet service?
unclexrico
join:2014-03-28
Brooklyn, NY

unclexrico

Member

Re: Right and Wrong...

said by battleop:

Not that I'm for anything Frontier but if anyone else did that it would be called predatory pricing. Today and in the near future this sounds great but what's it going to be like in 5-10 years when there are even fewer choices for internet service?

What could be bad about? 10 years from now it'll either be A a higher speed tier, or B the user can pay to get the 1gpbs or more speeds. C, they could decide not to use the service if anything over free is unreasonable.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Re: Right and Wrong...

"What could be bad about? "

So today few choices in service providers is bad but in 10 years it will be good?

Flyonthewall
@teksavvy.com

Flyonthewall

Anon

Re: Right and Wrong...

Well, considering that you only have to pay 300 dollars once to get 5, forever, vs paying through the nose to other companies all the time, I'd say that's all part of the game, since the rest keep gouging for the crap they deliver. At least Google is giving the customer the option. I'd much rather pay once up front for a lifetime connection, and then STILL have the option of upgrading later. I think google is using that as a determining factor in deciding where to upgrade to.

It also points out that it does NOT cost an arm and a leg to get even a 5, vs the 3 some companies still claim is just fine and charge more than 300 a year to have, as though they have the right to decide for customers what is or isn't acceptable, that shows a pretty clear sign of disdain for them.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Re: Right and Wrong...

Nothing is Free, not even internet. Google is not giving you "free" internet. They are trading you some "Free" internet for a treasure trove full of personal data. Surely you are not naive enough to believe that Google is doing this for the good of mankind. They are probably giving you $50 worth of internet for $200 worth of data.
en103
join:2011-05-02

en103

Member

Re: Right and Wrong...

Do you think that Frontier doesn't have any reselling of DSL info going on ?

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Re: Right and Wrong...

I'm sure they do but not on the scale that Google does.
smcallah
join:2004-08-05
Home

smcallah to Flyonthewall

Member

to Flyonthewall
It certainly does not point out that it doesn't cost a lot to offer 5mbit. It points out that Google is still using it as a marketing point and that they subsidize their operations with their ad revenue, which they've been doing for years. And they are selling your personal data to make their ads even better. They get enough value to make that 5mbit free to you, but it certainly doesn't mean it doesn't still cost them to provide it nor does it say anything about the cost for another ISP to offer 3 - 6mbit.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Re: Right and Wrong...

I think AT&T tried the same thing (or something similar) and there was quite an uproar on this very site about it.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

1 edit

existenz to smcallah

Member

to smcallah
said by smcallah:

And they are selling your personal data to make their ads even better.

Google doesn't sell personal data, just aggregated data. They link personal data across other Google services, but that is internal and also benefits the user. IE, my Android smartwatch displays my flight and hotel info that Google Now extracted from Gmail.

But like Facebook, Google+ is scary shite. I don't use it.

KennyWest
@sbcglobal.net

KennyWest

Anon

Re: Right and Wrong...

Do you know for a fact they don't sell it? I can tell you they do. Ever buy ad words? They tell you how many times that word is seen and such to tell you how much to bid. That is SELLING data. They also sell that data to the NSA and got caught as well and then lied about it to the end. Started some BS claim they had no clue, etc. Google does sell your information. How else do they make money??

Flyonthewall
@teksavvy.com

Flyonthewall

Anon

Re: Right and Wrong...

Ads only work when you watch them. I don't. I also use ad blocker, and block java scripts, so a lot of web pages don't even work for those snoops. The end user should be conscious of protecting their data as much as they can. The parts that are required for apps to work are a necessary evil, but even then, sound can be muted when you are forced to watch something for 30 seconds, and while it's annoying, it takes little effort.

For 'free' apps that spew ads every 3 minutes, I just uninstall and find other options.
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

Nanaki (banned)

Member

Re: Right and Wrong...

Something I'll never understand is how people want to spend hours on say YouTube for free and not expect to have ads on the site. Same for an website or other no money cost website game or app. They have to get paid some how.
ohreally
join:2014-11-21

ohreally to smcallah

Member

to smcallah
said by smcallah:

It certainly does not point out that it doesn't cost a lot to offer 5mbit.

The running of fibre to the home + equipment does, though. Some of that will be offset with the high installation fee, but I would be surprised if Google is making a profit on that. I'd bet that the contracts allow them to discontinue the service at any time and put you on the full fat service.

But then, Google hasn't exactly been open about Google Fibre's profitability and viability.
Nanaki (banned)
aka novaflare. pull punches? Na
join:2002-01-24
Akron, OH

Nanaki (banned) to smcallah

Member

to smcallah
Least your getting something in return from google selling that data. Where at etc all charge you for their service then turn around and sell your data as well.
unclexrico
join:2014-03-28
Brooklyn, NY

unclexrico to battleop

Member

to battleop
said by battleop:

So today few choices in service providers is bad but in 10 years it will be good?

You said the "free" tier by GF was predatory and a bad thing. I don't see how that could be.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Re: Right and Wrong...

Got a quote for that?
unclexrico
join:2014-03-28
Brooklyn, NY

unclexrico

Member

Re: Right and Wrong...

said by battleop:

"Given that Google offers 5M for nearly free"

Not that I'm for anything Frontier but if anyone else did that it would be called predatory pricing.


battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Re: Right and Wrong...

Correct me if I am wrong but I do not see the words "Bad" or "Thing" in that statement. Would you not agree those words are absent from that quote?
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

1 edit

Skippy25

Member

Re: Right and Wrong...

While you nit pick a moot point trying to sidestep you may want to read all your statements as you give your "bad thing" just one sentence and again one post later.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Re: Right and Wrong...

I'm nit picking? It seems you spend an awful lot of time looking for the most narrow, misquoted, issues to launch personal attacks against me.
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Skippy25

Member

Re: Right and Wrong...

Ok, but you can at least admit that he was correct and you were wrong. Not once but twice.

•••
unclexrico
join:2014-03-28
Brooklyn, NY

unclexrico to battleop

Member

to battleop
said by battleop:

Correct me if I am wrong but I do not see the words "Bad" or "Thing" in that statement. Would you not agree those words are absent from that quote?

I'm not attacking your soul here. I'm just not sure how calling something predatory can imply anything other than a negative.

$25 per month for a fiber install for a year is godsend in comparison to any other telecom.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Re: Right and Wrong...

I never said nor did I imply it was predatory pricing. I just pointed out that if another company did that such as AT&T or Comcast it would be called predatory pricing.
existenz
join:2014-02-12

existenz to battleop

Member

to battleop
said by battleop:

"
Not that I'm for anything Frontier but if anyone else did that it would be called predatory pricing.

That's one way to view it, but... Where the 'free' 5M came from is in exchange for use of city property for GF huts and other city resources. At least in KC, MO, the city offers property/resources to ALL ISPs that will provide a similar deal - so it's not special treatment.

•••
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Skippy25 to battleop

Member

to battleop
It is not predatory pricing when they do it in all their markets.

It is one thing to have this price point to prevent or kill off competition in a particular market. It is a whole other thing when you do it standard everywhere and the local incumbent has had plenty of time and planning to "compete" evenly.

KennyWest
@sbcglobal.net

KennyWest to existenz

Anon

to existenz
Google won't be there for years to come. So she has no worry right now which is true. She knows how long it is going to take Google to even start the process of going there. By then she could have her network ready to go. 5years at least before they see service. It took Austin 2+ years and NC is further down the list.
ncted
join:2010-10-25
Durham, NC

ncted to existenz

Member

to existenz
I have 24Mb Frontier in Durham. It is actually quite good compared to TimeWarner. A number of my close neighbors have switched as well. Will I switch to Google if/when it arrives? Probably, but what I have now is actually good service for a good price compared to the existing competitors.
wispalord
join:2007-09-20
Farmington, MO

wispalord

Member

Dear Frontier

you are full of it I have removed 5 of your clients in Harrisonville myself and moved them to KC Web because here are the reasons:

1. Slow
2. Down more than up
3. Your support line is total utter shit
4. Price ??!?!?!??! is astronomical for the little you get

I think I made my point.. and yes they was all long term business clients and I will be moving more since I provide voip services for business that I can prove your disrupting the data path because it only worked if I made VPN Connections
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

not a business model

DSL is not a business model for broadband anymore. it is obsolete-- just like this debt ridden company
davidhoffman
Premium Member
join:2009-11-19
Warner Robins, GA

davidhoffman

Premium Member

Re: not a business model

DSL is a fine business model, if the telephone company has invested and is using VDSL2 at under 100 meters from the fiber fed VRAD. Add in pair bonding and it gets better. Do the fancy vectoring and you get a little bit better. From what I have read, if you do the entire set up you will get 100 Mbps symmetrical internet service, 4 to 6 simultaneous 1080p HDTV channels, and 2 to 4 phone lines.
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

Re: not a business model

you CAN connect a bunch of strings and tin cans together.. you might actually hear what the other person has to say also.. would you want to subscribe to it? nope...

The Engineer
@scansafe.net

The Engineer

Anon

$20 a month for phone and 6mbps?!?

I think she's right. For a lot of people, that is a compelling package. It's locked in for 3 years, too.

Devil is in the details, of course. What is the real world speed, and how reliable is it?

They do have higher tiers, and it is available to a portion of their customer base. Seems to me that suburban customers probably have more choices and faster speeds.

cralt
join:2011-01-07
CT

cralt

Member

Re: $20 a month for phone and 6mbps?!?

said by The Engineer :

Devil is in the details, of course.

Its $19.99 WITH phone service. So you have to get a pots line thats $30+ taxes.

Here as far as I can tell the cheapest standalone internet they offer is $34.99(29.99 with AUTOPAY) which is a joke in every market they are in. They are selling that against Charters $39.99 60M service, Comcasts $39.99 25M service, Cablevision's $39.99 15m service, ...etc.

Its like they are not even trying

The Engineer
@scansafe.net

The Engineer

Anon

Re: $20 a month for phone and 6mbps?!?

OK, I misunderstood. I thought the phone was included at $20. Not such a good deal after all.

cralt
join:2011-01-07
CT

cralt

Member

fail

I would be happy with cheap and reliable 6m DSL. But they can't even get that right.

DSL can be a good affordable business model. Especially with vDSL2 or pair bonding. They may not be able to beat docsis3 or FTTH on raw speed but they can compete on PRICE,reliability and customer service. But FTR seems dead set on failing on all counts. They pay billions to buy systems but let the ones they already own rot away. What is the point?

The Engineer
@scansafe.net

The Engineer

Anon

Re: fail

I agree. Pair bonding, VDSL, and in the future vectoring and higher frequencies can expand the capacity of what's already in the ground. It's smart investment. I guess the question is, where do they get the money to make that investment?