  woody7Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA | hmmmmm.... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that this deal will mainly benfit Verizon, and saddly Frontier with debt, and what makes them different from the already failed deals that Verizon has done?
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BlooMe | |
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 |  SnowymIRC unix.ro UnderNetPremium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:5
 ·Clearwire Wireless
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: hmmmmm.... said by woody7:It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that this deal will mainly benfit Verizon, and saddly Frontier with debt, and what makes them different from the already failed deals that Verizon has done? from the desk of the copy editor:
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that this deal will only benefit Verizon, a few bankruptcy attorneys and drown Frontier with debt, and what makes this unloading of billions of dollars of Verizon debt different from the successful debt dumping deals that Verizon has already done? | |
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| |  davoice
join:2000-08-12
Saxapahaw, NC | Re: hmmmmm.... Different... that a lone female judge had the balls to stand up to Verizon on the record.
}Davoice | |
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|  rawgerzIn Debt we trustPremium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA | What would worry me if I lived in IL is the state's massive budget shortfalls. I think I heard they could be heading for a multi billion dollar deficit a few years from now?
Then what would happen if Fronter went bankrupt, would they end up bailing them out? Scary thought
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You can't make all the people happy all of the time. But it should be common sense to shoot for the majority. | |
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| | | | Re: hmmmmm.... HA! i was afraid that i would get an IOU for a state refund this year.
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sbcglobal.net speedtest result 11/11/09 - 5256kbps | |
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SnowymIRC unix.ro UnderNetPremium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:5 | Help with the math "the $8.5 billion deal (which would immediately infuse Frontier with nearly 6 million new voice and broadband connections"
Does that work out to ~$1400.00 per connection? | |
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Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
| Public benefit? The benefit is that VZ isn't going to file the paper work to abandon all services in these states. Under many state laws they can do so with only a 90 day notice.
After that 90 days the service goes dead and everyone is without 911 and anything else that the ILEC provides. Actually the CLECs are without as well.
So it comes down to VZ getting what they want or the State(s) losing phone service. What do you want? You can't have your cake and eat it too as we all know that is never an option.
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www.twopugsbrand.com ONLINE STORE NOW ONLINE! up to 50% off SRP of Happy Tails Spa products. | |
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|  BSD24Tier 4Premium
join:2008-04-30
Middleboro, MA | Re: Public benefit? said by hottboiinnc:The benefit is that VZ isn't going to file the paper work to abandon all services in these states. Under many state laws they can do so with only a 90 day notice. After that 90 days the service goes dead and everyone is without 911 and anything else that the ILEC provides. Actually the CLECs are without as well. So it comes down to VZ getting what they want or the State(s) losing phone service. What do you want? You can't have your cake and eat it too as we all know that is never an option. Well phone companys (using copper) are regulated, and cannot just dump local phone services.. Thats why Fairpoint filed bankruptcy but is still in business.... Laws/Regulations are there for a reason... Thats why Verizon wants to go FIOS and get rid of landlines, so they aren't heavily regulated.
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BSD | |
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| | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
| Re: Public benefit? Depends. Ohio has a law that says a xLEC can do that. All they have to do is refile their application and in 90 days GONE! It's up to the state to find another company to manage the network.
But Fiber companies are also regulated. That's why you still have taxes on the service- unlike many with VoIP and much of Cable (does not have all the extra taxes and fees).
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www.twopugsbrand.com ONLINE STORE NOW ONLINE! up to 50% off SRP of Happy Tails Spa products. | |
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| | | I'd say let them go. Someone will step in... Threats, I tell you! It's all threats! | |
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|  sitrix
join:2002-04-15
Tacoma, WA | "Verizon will just walk away" point of view I've heard many times already, in fact it's the only point of view proponents of this sale state over and over. The problem is that Verizon will never walk away from billions of dollars worth of assets, they will simply have to either keep them till they find a way to sell them at a price Verizon wants or sell them at a bargain price. If Verizon sells unwanted assets at bargain price to Frontier, then Frontier won't be burdened financially enough to go into bankruptcy and will have enough financial straight left to keep network operational. So in the end, if Verizon wants this sale to go through, then they shouldn't expect top dollar for the assets they sell. | |
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| | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
| Re: Public benefit? depending on the state of operations this is true. Ohio's law does NOT include the assets going to the public. So VZ could under Ohio law do that here. They could take the assets that they do own and leave without a problem. The people are the ones that would be affected in the end. The company would not.
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www.twopugsbrand.com ONLINE STORE NOW ONLINE! up to 50% off SRP of Happy Tails Spa products. | |
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| | What does it matter anymore With cable companies offering phone and Internet if frontier sucks leave them for cable.
Or better yet if they start to fail force them to upgrade or sell
there are many other ways to get phone and Internet these days.
Cable, cellular, sattelite. | |
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|  VanPremium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Re: What does it matter anymore said by djhexer:With cable companies offering phone and Internet if frontier sucks leave them for cable. Or better yet if they start to fail force them to upgrade or sell there are many other ways to get phone and Internet these days. Cable, cellular, sattelite. Not for everyone. I have been in houses/apartments with very select services in major cities | |
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Reviews:
 ·Frontier Communi..
1 edit | Here's the link to the Illinois ICC AL Judge's 46 page "Proposed Order" (in PDF format),
so that you can read what Frontier disagrees with.
»www.icc.illinois.gov/docket/file···d=147716
Some interesting points by ALJ Tapia:
--She found disputed evidence on whether Verizon and Frontier currently meet ICC minimum support standards. Frontier has had a presence in Illinois for a few years.
--Per the ALJ, Frontier bond credit ratings are substantially below Verizon. They are below investment grade. By the way, bond ratings are extremely important for utilities, because they borrow lots of money. Major impact on their ability to pay debt. Similar to an individual's credit rating and the cost to borrow.
--ALJ found that Verizon South (1 of the 2 Verizon ILECs in IL) had not met the ICC 80% broadband availability req by Jan 1 2005, or even now. (Verizon South is the smaller country cousin ILEC in IL.) Oh, the required speed was the 200 Kbps . Wow, super speedy. I remember when that speed was a dream. Now, it's pitiful. | |
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| | Great deal for Verizon Step 1: Dump infrastructure, customers and obligations on another company and get cash.
Step 2: Other company collapses under the load and goes under
Step 3: Pick infrastructure and customers (but not obligations) up again in bankruptcy auction, for much less. | |
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|  BlitzenZeusBurnt Out CynicPremium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:1 | Re: Great deal for Verizon You're forgetting Verizon will still be managing some of their services, and of coarse getting paid for it. Win + win for Verizon... | |
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| | | | Re: Great deal for Verizon said by BlitzenZeus:You're forgetting Verizon will still be managing some of their services, and of coarse getting paid for it. Win + win for Verizon... What services aside from wireless? | |
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| | | BlitzenZeusBurnt Out CynicPremium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Great deal for Verizon Please go back, and read the older news stories on this...
The billing systems we've all come to hate for one. That's right frontier won't just be taking over, they will be using the same old craptacular billing system which has been the source of many billing errors, but now with new people to screw up your account even more when they can't do a simple task of doing something simple as removing something off your account, maybe change you to that new package without removing the etf which they are supposed to waive. This is one of the many things they will be paying Verizon to maintain as they have NO EXPERIENCE with a system this advanced, and at this scale.
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My hourly rates:
$25 per hour.
$35 per hour if you want to watch.
$45 per hour if you want to help.
$75 per hour if you tried to fix it, and failed.
Security through obscurity is for the ignorant who don't deserve security. | |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
2 edits | Unfair comparison... quote:
Our Frontier user reviews are thoroughly average, the carrier isn't offering next-generation speeds (most users are served with 3 Mbps or less)...
You're comparing apples and oranges. 3 Mbps may be merely "average" in regions that include big city, high density areas served by several competing ISP's such as cable and telcos. But that doesn't describe the type of regions served by Frontier. The "average" (the median, at least) in these more-rural areas, if you have the misfortune of being served by one of the big ILEC's, is zero; only a minority of customers have broadband. In contrast, Frontier provides broadband to >92% of their current subscribers. That's far, far above "average" for the type of regions in question.
As for the judges comments, she may be right in that this will diminish Frontier's ability to provide "least-cost public utility service." But I'm almost certain that referrs only to basic analog telephony, the only thing considered "utility service" under most state laws. But so what? This is an area where the law has been left behond and lost touch with reality. No one cares about landline telephony anymore; almost all areas are served by multiple mobile phone providers, who provide telephone service that's cheaper and better than landlines. | |
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 linicxCaveat EmptorPremium
join:2002-12-03
United State
·Cass Communicati..
·CenturyLink
| Not necessarly so Illinois is the fifth most populated state with 102 counties and despite being the #2 corn producer in the country. What Verizon and the Telcos run into is county seats and hospitals that are 50 miles apart and 1000 acres farms that are 5 miles apart on poorly marked dirt roads. They all use phones. They may have call phones but they have land lines that provide links to GPS because cable doesn't generally go out 60 miles. Satellite cable isn't generally much faster than dial-up and it is very expensive. Cellphones are not reliable in rural areas. VOIP does not work if the power fails, or the server fails. The only reliable connection to 911 in rural America is POTS.
I've been doing it for 26 years. There is very little difference in rural Internet today than there was 15 years ago. The Internet is slow and dodgy. Companies do not want to upgrade worn out equipment. They don't what to provide tech support or service - but they want that $50/mo. for cable, for cell phone, for VOIP, etc..
Rural America has never been about providing fast Internet service or even good internet service. It's all about big profits, little expense and less service. It happened when Cox sold out its medium and small markets to Suddenlink. It happened when Century Telephone did the same thing, and it will happen when Verizon sells out. Decent service and tech support will be replaced with a provider who charges more for less. I am one of the lucky ones. I knew when I had terrible, expensive bundled services from Century Telephone the writing was on the wall and sure enough they sold out or merged with Embarqe; it is the same thing. The customers got the shaft and we were left holding the bag. I bailed 8 months before they left. Frontier may have a wonder reputation in a town of 100K, but they won't in a town of 500. IF Verizon pulls out, I don't know what will happen to their cell phone customers.
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Mac: No windows, No Gates, Apple inside | |
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pchelp
join:2010-03-21
Manson, WA | Motives Frontier's principals are obviously solidly 'in bed' with those of Verizon.
I wonder what they gain in the long run. Creating a hamstrung, debt-ridden entity wouldn't seem to be a good idea on its face. Something lies beneath. | |
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|  nona
@frontiernet.net | Re: Motives In all previous cases almost seems like eventual bankruptcy is what is planned for. Verizon gets richer offloads debt, new company expands loses debt, everybody happy but joe schmo consumer. Isnt this a great country. Creative debt loss at its best. | |
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