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:-)I wonder if this cap will also apply to the fios connections they bought out rofl. That would just be hilarious ftth with a 100 gb cap haha | |
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Re: :-)Good question, yes... I have a feeling this will be shot down as it brings the wrong kind of attention to Frontier while they're looking to make regulators happy, but perhaps we'll get to see.  | |
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| | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR |
PDXPLT
Member
2010-Apr-14 11:36 am
Do they offer TV in Mound?Is Mound, Minnesota a location where they offer TV service? 'sounds like a lame attempt to keep broadband from cannabolizing TV revenue. | |
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| |  cdruGo Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN |
to Karl Bode
Re: :-)said by Karl Bode:I have a feeling this will be shot down as it brings the wrong kind of attention to Frontier while they're looking to make regulators happy, but perhaps we'll get to see. Shot down by who? Internally? If they don't want the regulator attention months after the Frontier-Verizon deal was started, this should have been shot down before it even left some meeting room, let alone a public rumor or it to letters sent to actual customers. It will be very hard for them to have any excuse should regulatory scrutiny happen. | |
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Re: :-)said by cdru:said by Karl Bode:I have a feeling this will be shot down as it brings the wrong kind of attention to Frontier while they're looking to make regulators happy, but perhaps we'll get to see. Shot down by who? Internally? If they don't want the regulator attention months after the Frontier-Verizon deal was started, this should have been shot down before it even left some meeting room, let alone a public rumor or it to letters sent to actual customers. It will be very hard for them to have any excuse should regulatory scrutiny happen. Yeah, internally once they realize people actually do pay attention to these things. I agree this should have never left whatever board room this ridiculous idea was spawned in. | |
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| | fiberguy2My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20 |
to Karl Bode
I think it's pretty simple in this case.. $250? I think they'd have to justify that fee to - let's just say "the government" in this case. This is clearly price gauging. When 9/11 hit and some gas stations raised their prices to $5.00 a gallon, the government didn't take kindly to that.
I think Fontier would have a MUCH better chance at charging an overage-fee if they kept it reasonable... but not $250 a month. Who ever is running Frontier is a complete idiot. | |
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Re: :-)I see Frontier as far more devious than most of you.
One of the few viable arguments against Frontier being able to manage these new customers is that they don’t have the financial or network resources to handle these new customers they will be acquiring from Verizon.
Limiting the former Verizon customers with these new rates would seem to answer that question.
My predictions
The transfer to Frontier will go through.
They will limit use and speeds while imposing much higher fees on these new customers as quickly as possible.
Proving they are financially secure and profitable. | |
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to XEvilWyvernX
said by XEvilWyvernX:I wonder if this cap will also apply to the fios connections they bought out rofl. That would just be hilarious ftth with a 100 gb cap haha welcome to canada think 100megabit with 400GB CAPS think 50 megabit with 100GB caps YUP your so fast you use it up so quickly and then the other 29 days of the month they get to gouge you perhaps we shold be seeking to smack the fuck out the shareholders that approve such plans then we can move the service the way we want hrmmm | |
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Re: :-)You know, 250GB per month has an effective bitrate of 771kbps! And 100gb has an effective bitrate of 300kbps. Calculate it yourself. If you are offered 250GB per month on a 12Mbps line, but the real line rate is 0.7Mbps, isn't that called Fraud?!? | |
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Re: :-)said by robertg1234:If you are offered 250GB per month on a 12Mbps line, but the real line rate is 0.7Mbps, isn't that called Fraud?!? Not if it's advertised as such up front. I have a 200 amp service to my house but if I drew 200 amps 24/7 I'd be willing to bet that my electric bill would go up. Of course the electric company never told me my service was unlimited..... | |
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| | | |  elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO |
elios
Member
2010-Apr-16 3:06 am
Re: :-)that power also cost to produce some thing not true of 'bits' | |
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to Crookshanks
said by Crookshanks:said by robertg1234:If you are offered 250GB per month on a 12Mbps line, but the real line rate is 0.7Mbps, isn't that called Fraud?!? Not if it's advertised as such up front. I have a 200 amp service to my house but if I drew 200 amps 24/7 I'd be willing to bet that my electric bill would go up. Of course the electric company never told me my service was unlimited..... If you consumed that amount of electricity on a constant basis, you might attract the attention of the local police. grow lights | |
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|  ropeguru
Premium Member
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA |
to XEvilWyvernX
said by XEvilWyvernX:I wonder if this cap will also apply to the fios connections they bought out rofl. That would just be hilarious ftth with a 100 gb cap haha Fortunately nothing has been bought yet.. | |
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|  ReformCRTCSupport Your Independent ISP
join:2004-03-07
Canada |
to XEvilWyvernX
Sounds like they want to kick all their P2P bandwidth hogging pirates off their network before ACTA comes into effect and these hogs become even more of a headache administratively.
They don't want you to pay 100/250.
They want you GONE. | |
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| | jp10558
Premium Member
join:2005-06-24
Willseyville, NY |
jp10558
Premium Member
2010-Apr-14 3:02 pm
Re: :-)Am I the only one who finds it quite odd that it's apparently a normal business plan to want to remove some number of customers? I.E. reduce market share? That just seems weird to me. | |
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Its hard to even comment on this. This is hard to even believe. | |
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telcomgrl
Anon
2010-Apr-14 10:19 am
Re: Its hard to even comment on this.Yes and that their infamous CEO has been quoted saying "Frontier... will be a leading follower."
hmmmm..... makes you think... Somethings just don't add up with them. | |
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| dynodb
Premium Member
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN |
to stanleycr1
Yeah, this is pretty bad. I don't have a problem with reasonable caps, but citing anything more than 5GB / month as "unreasonable" with a 100GB cap? Way over the top.
250GB would be reasonable, though charging $250 to go above that is pretty outrageous.
My guess is that they looked at the average usage per month- including customers that do nothing but check e-mail and surf occasionally- and came up with 5GB as "reasonable" usage. When you have a significant number of people using almost zero GB per month, the average is going to be low.
Mound, MN isn't that big a suburb. If they sent letters to 50 subscribers just in Mound, they have to have many thousands in their territory going over 100GB/month. | |
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GTFO of my internetMy Comcast cap doesn't look so bad now, I guess it could always be worse. But it could be a lot better too. | |
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 spewakR.I.P Dadkins
Premium Member
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA ·Consolidated Com..
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spewak
Premium Member
2010-Apr-14 10:07 am
Frontiers' new nameTo quote from the article: It's also disingenuous for Frontier to claim they're interested in "providing the best possible internet experience" to their broadband customers when they decide capping and overcharging their users takes precedence over upgrading the network (many Frontier users are lucky to see speeds of 3 Mbps). That should be their new company name: Disingenuous!They are one F---ed up company to be sure!  | |
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borka
join:2003-04-01
Ponte Vedra, FL |
borka
Member
2010-Apr-14 10:08 am
5gb is acceptable use????"A reasonable amount of usage is defined as 5GB combined upload and download consumption during the course of a 30-day billing period."
What are those executives smoking?? this is not 1995, people do more than just browse the web and email...!?!
so if some one plays online games, downloads updates, watches some hulu... they will be over that cap in less than a week! | |
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| Ammler
Premium Member
join:2005-04-19
Pittsburgh, PA |
Ammler
Premium Member
2010-Apr-14 10:25 am
Re: 5gb is acceptable use????Yea, I wonder how many of their remaining customers actually realize they only have a 5gb cap?
Corporate Extortion at it BEST!
If I got one of these letters, I'd be calling up another provider FIRST! | |
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| |  CamaroQuestion everything
Premium Member
join:2008-04-05
Westfield, MA |
Camaro
Premium Member
2010-Apr-14 11:43 am
Re: 5gb is acceptable use????Wow they figured out a way to implement metered billing without calling it that,got to give them credit it only took less than a week after the comcast ruling to start "reasonable network management" or whatever name they like use. | |
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to borka
Believe it or not, I know plenty of people who would stay under 5GB. I'm definitely not one of them, but then again Frontier isn't targeting me in this; my usage tends to stay under 100GB.
The other thing is that it seems like 101-250GB gets charged as $100 per month and 250+ GB (so unliited) gets charged as $250, significantly less than a T1.
Still ridiculous, but it's not a 5GB cap. It's a 5GB "average" which is actually about right. I think Comcast has said their average subscriber uses around 3GB. | |
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| | 88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness |
88615298 (banned)
Member
2010-Apr-14 1:13 pm
Re: 5gb is acceptable use????said by iansltx:Believe it or not, I know plenty of people who would stay under 5GB. I'm definitely not one of them, but then again Frontier isn't targeting me in this; my usage tends to stay under 100GB. The other thing is that it seems like 101-250GB gets charged as $100 per month and 250+ GB (so unliited) gets charged as $250, significantly less than a T1. Still ridiculous, but it's not a 5GB cap. It's a 5GB "average" which is actually about right. I think Comcast has said their average subscriber uses around 3GB. Anyone that uses less than 5 GB and pays $50 a month or more for internet is moron. Who needs 5 Mbps, 10mbps or more if all you do is check e-mail? | |
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Re: 5gb is acceptable use????I know plenty of satellite internet users that never come close to the FAP and pay $50+ per month for service.
ALso, in Frontier's case it would be 3 Mbps not 5/10 Mbps. | |
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| | | | 88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness |
88615298 (banned)
Member
2010-Apr-14 5:59 pm
Re: 5gb is acceptable use????said by iansltx:I know plenty of satellite internet users that never come close to the FAP and pay $50+ per month for service. ALso, in Frontier's case it would be 3 Mbps not 5/10 Mbps. I bet 100% of those users could get cable/DSL if they could. Of course they don't come close because they don't do the things that would cause them to go over their FAP because they know they can't do those things. If you know downloading a HD movie from itunes will put you over the cap guess what, you don't do it. That doesn't mean you wouldn't WANT to do it. Also with satellite you can't do any online gaming, so it makes sense you're not using any bandwidth doing online gaming when you can't do it to begin with. Trust me if you friends had the ability to do online games, download movies, watch Hulu, stream Netflix etc etc they would in fact be using more than 5 GB a month. | |
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Re: 5gb is acceptable use????Trust me, there are people on cable and DSLwho STILL don't use more than 5GB in a month.
If I had a DD-WRT router with the traffic meter on someone's residential connection other than mine or my parents' I'd prove this. However there's a bit of a measurement bias for someone technical enough to do such a thing.
Seriously though, not everyone has Netflix. Most people actually DON'T stream HD movies online. A lot of people just check e-mail, surf the web, download a YouTube video or three, and have one or two PCs that get Windows updates from time to time. That's about it. | |
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| | | | | | 88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness |
88615298 (banned)
Member
2010-Apr-14 7:06 pm
Re: 5gb is acceptable use????said by iansltx:Trust me, there are people on cable and DSLwho STILL don't use more than 5GB in a month. If I had a DD-WRT router with the traffic meter on someone's residential connection other than mine or my parents' I'd prove this. However there's a bit of a measurement bias for someone technical enough to do such a thing. Seriously though, not everyone has Netflix. Most people actually DON'T stream HD movies online. A lot of people just check e-mail, surf the web, download a YouTube video or three, and have one or two PCs that get Windows updates from time to time. That's about it. And I said then those people are stupid for paying so much and using it in a limited matter. Personally if that's all I was doing I wouldn't be paying $45 or more per month. I'd just get Charter's 1 Mbps tier for $20 a month or at&t 768 kbps tier for $20 a month. And honestly you can check e-mail over your cell phone now. | |
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Re: 5gb is acceptable use????You can check e-mail over your $200 cell phone with a $30 data plan. On a 3.5 inch screen. No thanks (yes, I have a cell that can do this, but the people not using much internet don't).
Additionally, Frontier's lowest tier is...wait for it...$40 per month. There's no such thing as AT&T in Frontier areas. You're comparing apples to oranges. | |
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| | | | | | | |  dMarksMelting Faces For Fun
Premium Member
join:2007-02-09
Jackson, MI |
dMarks
Premium Member
2010-Apr-15 2:37 am
Re: 5gb is acceptable use????said by iansltx:You can check e-mail over your $200 cell phone with a $30 data plan... I can check email over my pre-paid cell phone plan which costs CONSIDERABLY less than $200. Also lower than $40 a month. So what if it's on a small screen. Print still shows clearly. So...what's your point? | |
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Re: 5gb is acceptable use????Your prepaid cell isn't your main means of internet communication, and you're MORE technical than the average low-end user online, not less. | |
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| | | | | | | rody_44
Premium Member
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA |
to 88615298
I bet im under the 5gbs a month. Me and my wife work pretty much. i come home and dont check email at all. i play a little yahoo chess and check this site. My wife watches some short you tube videos and such. i pay 42.99 for service from comcast. i dont consider myself stupid for paying 42.99 for it. i will pass on the economy tier as ide only save about 15 or 20 dollars. F that im more than willing to pay so she dont have to wait to buffer and such. I keep the speed because i like it. | |
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to iansltx
yeah but eventually the way things are going, all of your entertainment needs are going to be delivered through the net...even now (though the number is small but increasing) more and more people are cutting the cable tv cord and watching all there shows and getting their entainment needs on the net... i cut my cable back in October, i built an HTPC and hooked it up to my 52"... i designed up a simple web page as a starting point to watch all my shows and now save $75 a month...but i am using a lot more bandwidth, not sure how much yet as comcast has not implemented the meter in my area yet... all these companies are pushing there media onto the net(where media rich websites are norm compared to 10-12 years ago) but when you have the company who is the life line between you and the ever growing media/entertainment savvy internet making it difficult to use and enjoy, that's not helping with the forward momentum of progress........ even though we are in the early stage of this trend that's where we are heading... either this company is prepping themselves for mega profits down the road or they really are completely oblivious to a growing and popular trend... | |
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Re: 5gb is acceptable use????Three roommates. Plenty of friends. All of which use my 42" TV to stream internet video of various types (don't have cable). I'm the biggest internet user in the place but only watch a couple of hours of TV per week. All of that, and I'm under 100GB most months, always under 250GB...and that's with two computers getting all of their stuff backed up online.
Then again, between school and work there's not a ton of "sit down" time... | |
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| Mark F1
join:2007-08-01
Fort Wayne, IN |
to borka
I was considering switching to Netflix, so I can stream movies and TV shows from the web to the big TV in my living room.
But, as a future Frontier subscriber, should I forget about Netflix and stay with Blockbuster, cancel Rhapsody,
give up Hulu, etc.
Just what impact will the caps have on people who watch movies/TV shows online that aren't on any cable channel, music lovers, etc?
Mark F | |
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IanR
join:2001-03-22
Fort Mill, SC |
IanR
Member
2010-Apr-14 10:10 am
What is the logic for the extra payment?Users sign up and pay a monthly fee. Generally these monthly fees allow the provider to recoup ALL expenses and make a profit.
Now these excess charges are they
A) Punitive
or
B) Realistic charges for extra usage of the network?
And who can a user monitor their usage levels real time?
If (B) What's the basis for the charge?
If (A) Why would a business want to punish acustomer with massive charges?
The logic here escapes me for any well run company to want to HIT out at users who are teir lifeblood. Sure charge a litle extra to cover extra costs, but punitive charges??? Desn't make ANY sense. | |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2010-Apr-14 10:11 am
Grrrr.I'd like to comment, but what I want to say about Frontier doing this cannot be printed here.
I hope enough customers cancel. | |
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banner
Premium Member
join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA |
banner
Premium Member
2010-Apr-14 10:17 am
Example of what not to doHopefully this will be an epic fail and be an industry example of what not to do. | |
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caco
Premium Member
join:2005-03-10
Whittier, AK |
caco
Premium Member
2010-Apr-14 10:20 am
So basically $99/mo for 249.9 GBOuch. | |
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mleland
Premium Member
join:2002-12-17
Westwood, CA |
mleland
Premium Member
2010-Apr-14 10:21 am
Better not apply this to business users!I happen to have business DSL from Frontier at my home. It was the ONLY way to get 3\512 service. There was NO option to get that speed without switching to business class. I may just call them and ask about this for my account. I know the letter says RAUP and not BAUP but that doesn't mean they aren't going to apply the cap to both services. Even in my really rural county in CA I can get cable internet as well. The only problem there is that the local cable co is about 5 employees and they don't even have a web site. Same price for less speed then DSL and they cap ALL accounts at 10gb no matter what you have for an account. | |
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Streaming companies5Gb? That's only two HD movies in 30 days?
I hope Netflix, Amazon, Sony and Microsoft are paying attention to this situation. As more ISP's become stingy about their bandwidth I can see this limitation of 5Gb having a severe effect on all of these companies profits. I have a feeling that these rather large companies that offer streaming video might have something to say to Frontier. | |
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|  IowaMan
Premium Member
join:2008-08-21
Grinnell, IA |
IowaMan
Premium Member
2010-Apr-14 5:29 pm
Re: Streaming companies1 DVD ISO or or updating my 4 computers in the house from the Original CD's (2 XP and 2 Mac computers) would put me over the cap! At least They will never come to Iowa! Maybe Qwest should buy them  | |
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amungus
Premium Member
join:2004-11-26
America |
amungus
Premium Member
2010-Apr-14 10:26 am
unreasonableThe quote from their letter is outrageous:
"A reasonable amount of usage is defined as 5GB combined upload and download consumption during the course of a 30-day billing period."
Frak that. Reasonable to who? How? That level of cap on an air-card is still stupid in my opinion.
Sorry, but with legit media these days, there is no excuse for a pathetically low cap.
This whole capping fad is probably the worst thing to happen to the internet since its inception.
Internet isn't meant to be measured out in doses. Either give me the ability to get "full speed" as often as the network can handle it, or SLOW DOWN the link speed being sold.
Rather be sold a 3Mbps line that can be used as often as I want than a 12Mbps one that has some arbitrary limit which equates to not being able to use the thing more than 10 minutes a day.
Why this concept is so difficult, I don't know. Some here have done the math, and it is not pretty. In many cases, either the total speed you'd get if used constantly is something pathetic like 128Kbps (over 30 days), or, you end up with being able to use your full speed for some stupid short length of time per 30 days (as mentioned above, in a guestimated, totally arbitrary, numbers pulled from nowhere way).
Flat out wrong. Caps, especially when set to insidiously low, ought to be completely illegal. | |
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No sense$99.99 overage fee? I would be canceling immediately.
If your service was (just an example) $40.00 a month for 100GB, then that 1GB over (101GB) costs $99.99?
Not one bit of sense does $99.99 make! Horrible horrible horrible! Greed and lack of competition. | |
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3 edits |
Mound, Minnesota isa town of 9,435 population, and a Western suburb of Minneapolis/St. Paul. Top 50 users out of x thousand, would mean that many people would know one of the Top 50 users.
Wonder if the local newspaper(s) are talking about this?
Certainly BAD PR move, for the new customers in the Verizon/new Frontier areas! Guess I need to look into switching.
It's not like the old days, where companies could mess with one area, without other areas finding out. Plenty of Wisconsin(and rest of the US) VZ DSL customers will be hearing about this.
What competitors available in Mound, Minnesota? Ought to be some, since it's a suburb of M-SP!! | |
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frontier sucksthis is the dumbest shit I have heard of on my life. Fu** this company and the lined it rides on. | |
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Now *that's* piracy (re: today's previous article)...or maybe just Information Super-highway robbery. | |
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idiots... they just made comcast seem like $0.50 candy
$99 is soo not worth it for frontier. Are you kidding me 3Mbps connection with a 5GB cap on a crappy network ... hahahaha
at least with comcast you get 15Mbps and a 250GB cap.. and a pretty decent network for $50 a month lol | |
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Re: idiots$60 per month including modem rental, and 12 Mbps. Unless of course you coax a promo out of them, in which case it's less | |
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 jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA |
jmn1207
Premium Member
2010-Apr-14 11:14 am
Fear Driven, Not GreedThis is just a desperate attempt to protect their business. It's all about keeping their video service alive and the investment into their web TV portal.They are being forced to make these drastic moves in a fruitless effort to keep from going bankrupt, which looks more and more likely. | |
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33358088 (banned)
Member
2010-Apr-14 11:27 am
Re: Fear Driven, Not Greedsaid by jmn1207:This is just a desperate attempt to protect their business. It's all about keeping their video service alive and the investment into their web TV portal.They are being forced to make these drastic moves in a fruitless effort to keep from going bankrupt, which looks more and more likely. huh you not even read anything above? ANYTHING and the bankruptcy is a sham and this is why they should not be allowed to invest into tv and media we shold all for the summer just turn off eat a early termination and then in 6 months come back EVERYONE see who is bankrupt then | |
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|  dvd536as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ |
to jmn1207
said by jmn1207:This is just a desperate attempt to protect their business. It's all about keeping their video service alive and the investment into their web TV portal. thats all capping is EVER about. stopping the CORD CUTTING! | |
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Disconnected 15 days...I love how the user is disconnected if they don't respond within fifteen days. Yes, that's a brilliant business model: throwing away perfectly good customers. | |
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Ubee E31U2V1
(Software) pfSense
Netgear WNR3500L
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5GB cap is right in line, WITH MOBILE BROADBANDThats right, 5GB a month is currently the cap that AT&T and Verizon wireless use on their MOBILE broadband accounts, and they are faster than Frontiers stated speeds of 3Mbps/512Kbps. If Frontier really enforces these caps, i believe the company will be out of business in no time flat. I can somewhat understand the cap for a mobile broadband service, but 5 is a little unreasonable with today's internet services(hulu, netflix?) available, and not for a LANDLINE DSL service. I have charter, and I do 5 GB a month in just browsing. I have never gotten an excessive consumption notice from charter, even tho i know i did 750GB of upload and download total in one month. I would laugh off Frontiers letter and sue, as well as switch providers. I hope all Frontier customers switch providers, and put this crappy ISP out of business. | |
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