GAO: High U.S. Broadband Prices Hindering Adoption And High U.S. Broadband Prices Are Due To Limited Competition According to a new General Accounting Office study (pdf), the high cost of service is what's primarily slowing the adoption of broadband services. The GAO concludes that overall, United States broadband adoption isn't too bad -- with some type of service (though not competition) covering 95% of the public, and the country seeing "globally competitive adoption rates." But we're still middle of the pack in most metrics -- especially price -- and the report windingly concludes that competition is what's missing: Each of our case-study countries found that competition had been a key component of increasing innovation and, for several of the countries, reducing prices. Six of our seven case-study countries found that promoting competition by unbundling the telephone networks allowed competitors to provide broadband service using existing DSL technology, often avoiding the need for repeated and costly deployment of additional telephone infrastructure. Of course we scrapped our line sharing plans, which have since been taken to other countries to produce competitive results (Japan, France top the list). Of note: the GAO asked the FCC if they thought the U.S. broadband "ecosystem" was competitive, and the FCC apparently wasn't sure: "...according to FCC, it is unclear whether the broadband "ecosystem" in the United States is competitive, so the government needs to continue to study the current competitive environment and the future implications of the current competition structure in America." An FCC that isn't even sure if the U.S. market is competitive or not certainly falls in line with recent criticism that the agency doesn't seem willing to take solid positions. In short, six of the seven case studies the GAO examined found that countries that engaged in unbundling increased competition and lowered prices. That mirrors an FCC study that found that opening networks increased competition and lowered prices. But the FCC decided not to follow this route because there's "no appetite for it" and it might make the nation's wealthiest ISPs unhappy.
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 |  | pandoraPremium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·ooma
·Google Voice
·Future Nine Corp..
 ·Comcast
|  I went to the U.K to see what was available ...
The first rated ISP is the PostOffice their website is at - »www.ispreview.co.uk/isp_list/ISP···fice-155
The PostOffice offers 2 wired tiers, a premium with no cap, and a non-premium with a 10 GB per month cap. I elected to consider the non-capped, as 10 GB is an atrocity imo.
The premium plan costs £20.95, google tells me this represents $33.05 per month for a maximum of 8 MB down and .45 MB up.
I link to the postoffice and find their plan page at - »www.postoffice.co.uk/portal/po/c···88100745
Then begin to notice the fine print (like the fair use asterisk next to the unlimited internet) ... »ftp://ftp.royalmail.com/Downloads/publ···4_v4.pdf there seems to be a 5 GB monthly limit for download during peak periods, which would be 6-11 PM Monday through Sunday and on holidays.
Then I visit this link - »www.postoffice.co.uk/portal/po/c···58200716 which is their FAQ. FAQ question 2 indicates a non-cable telephone line is required.
The above FAQ also tells me that the speeds are UP TO 8 MB, not 8MB down.
Customer reviews are here - »www.ispreview.co.uk/review/products/615.html
I think the 3rd or 4th review indicated actual download speeds of 2-3 MB. Others have indicated there are problems with connectivity and with broadband generally in the U.K. Somehow I'm not surprised. Comcast will sell you a $20 per month 1.5 MB down service, if you wanted it. Most don't.
I guess we can lust after that, but I'm happy enough with my unlimited Comcast starter business for $60 per month without any real cap. I get 16-25 MB down and 3-4 MB up depending on benchmark. My contract is for 6 MB down and 1 MB up. Comparing that to the promised 8 MB down and .45 MB up of the U.K. Post Office, on paper it looks like a bad deal. Until I read reviews about awful customer service and speeds about 25% of that promised by the Post Office vs my getting 3 to 4 times the promised speeds.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." | |
| | | | | Re: I went to the U.K to see what was available ... You need to check offers on the Continental Europe. UK does not have the best broadband for a buck in Europe. Just check speedtest.net | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | pandoraPremium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:1 Reviews:
·ooma
·Google Voice
·Future Nine Corp..
·Comcast
| Re: I went to the U.K to see what was available ...
DSL tends to be an up to speed which degrades quickly with distance from the DSLAM. My experience has been the higher the speed the more quickly it deteriorates with distance from the DSLAM. What exactly 70 PLN are in U.S. dollars I have no idea. If PLN is short for Polish Zloty then google currency conversion says that's about $24.59.
I tried a google search for - Neostrada 20/mbs (ADSL2+)
And found some thread results here - »translate.google.com/translate?h···rls%3Den
Users appear to be claiming that the 20 MB service is providing 2 - 6 MB speeds.
Over here - »translate.google.com/translate?h···rls%3Den someone seems to be getting 10 MB down but only 64 KB up.
Many European offerings I've seen seem to want a direct feed from a credit card, debit card or bank account, getting a paper bill seems to cost extra. Some include VAT, some do not, some offers require a phone line, sometimes the line is free sometimes not, some offers seem to be for unlimited service some not. A lot of offers seem to be up to DSL type offers.
It is tough to compare offerings when the cultures are so different. My Comcast internet offer comes with a paper bill, and no tax. When comparing offers, we need to know the true average speed of the plans, and the true cost to customers all things being equal.
When looking to find DSL coverage in Poland, I come across an article like this - »ec.europa.eu/information_society···2007.pdf which has the following qualifier:
In some countries (e.g. Poland and the Czech Republic), where fixed telephone lines are not available to all households, DSL coverage was recalculated to obtain the effective percentage of the population which can be physically equipped with DSL (see detailed calculations in the country monographs).
IF we considered broadband coverage in the U.S. to include those with broadband wires passing their home, we'd have 100% coverage. The problem with a statistical basis like that is it's misleading. 95% coverage to homes that are already wired? Who are they kidding?
Over here - »www.strategyanalytics.com/defaul···&a0=4748 it seems to indicate that in 2008 only 34% of Polish homes had broadband available.
It all depends on what we count and what the bias of the counter is.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." | |
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| | | | GAO I think you mean the Government Accountability Office; that's not exactly the same thing as "General Accounting".... | |
| | weaver
join:2001-12-13
Alexandria, VA | Re: GAO said by war_by_proxy:I think you mean the Government Accountability Office; that's not exactly the same thing as "General Accounting".... Actually, it is the same thing. Before 2004, the Government Accountability Office was the General Accounting Office. | |
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| | Line Sharing Did line sharing have an easy time going through in most countries because they started out as government owned entities?? Just curious.
That is a slightly different way than we went here. | |
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1 edit | It depends on what you mean by that. Instead of our government taking ownership and rolling out the network, they decided to subsidize the couriers instead.
I personally don't see the difference beyond who claims to own it being that it is through all those subsidies (be it monopoly status, tax breaks, inflated profits, etc) they are the companies they are to begin with. All of that has gotten lost in the shuffle over the decades. Therefore I claim that "we the people" own these networks and the companies are only there to upgrade it and manage it and their reward for doing so is profit.
However, I think they have enjoyed their inflated profits enough and the FCC needs to "ball up" and force competition instead of continuing to be a bunch of little pansies. | |
|
 P NessYou'Ve Forgotten 9-11 AlreadyPremium
join:2001-08-29
way way out | Dont worry taxes and surcharges are coming to all of us to help pay for everyone else to have super duper high speed internet
think the prices are high now..lol
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 NO U | |
|  bencPremium
join:2007-06-17
Glen Carbon, IL
·Charter
| Hindering Adoption? I'm confused. I don't know of a single person who can get broadband service, that doesn't have it. Virtually everyone who can be a customer, is a customer.
However, I do agree that with better competition, we'd see offerings with a better value. This can be in the form of better tiers for the same money, or lower fees. | |
| elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA Reviews:
 ·SONIC.NET
·RoadRunner Cable
| High Prices? Hindering? Slowing Adoption? WT? If you actually read the report, you'll note that our broadband rates are not only cheaper than the OECD average across the board, but we also have a lower entry cost than the GECD.
And that's without government subsidy (yet!) - something the report doesn't factor into the "cost" in other countries.
The report addresses "adoption rates" without actually interrogating whether the non-adoptees WANT the service, and just exactly what constitutes "affordability". Show me a household that "can't afford broadband" where it is offered, let me examine their balance sheet and make some Home-Ec adjustments, and I doubt you'll find even 1% of the nation truly "can't afford".
I know plenty of non-adoptees. Not one does so for financial reasons.
We don't need the federal government working overtime to push broadband on people that don't want it, or spending our money to do so. | |
| | | | | Reviews:
·Charter
| Re: High Prices? Hindering? Slowing Adoption? WT? Because the corporations are constantly screwing the customers. why would you highlight the positives, because the positives are so well know and mediocre at best. Most urban ISP service is good to great, and most rural ISP service is bad to worse. This is because the "corporations" would rather be putting money in where they can get money out, and would rather compete with "non-price" competition. this means that they can continually raise rates, and still NOT invest in infrastructure. Look at fairpoints old verizon lines. Fairpoint could not actually get verizons old lines to work properly. This happened because Verizon would not invest in them, and they are so dilapidated that most ppl on rural vermont cant get more than 1 mbps actual download speed. Pathetic really. Since the government is almost bought and paid for by large corporations, they have no balls to regulate the industry. | |
| | | | | | Re: High Prices? Hindering? Slowing Adoption? WT? Then people have never good things to say about each other. Its only dog eat dog world out there. | |
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| | | | said by chgo_man99:In most urban areas, broadband services are great. Who cares about rural broadband services in Montanna. Its different geography and different population density. I noticed that dsl authors and commentators here give a lot of critism but no any credit at all to "evil" corporations. Please, cite the evidence you have of broadband service being "great" in urban areas. DSL is a non-starter, and can barely be considered broadband. The only real broadband option they have is cable, which makes it a monopoly with ridiculously high prices.
Suburbs are a different story. Time Warner Cable, for example, hasn't even upgraded past DOCSIS 1 here.
And don't give me this "culture, median income, etc." nonsense. The US the richest country in the world. France and Japan have demonstrated that line-sharing improves service in rural and suburban areas. CLECs make enough profit over time to build their own lines and network.
Furthermore the US government subsidized telcos with $200 billion in tax cuts with the '96 Telecom Act. There are no excuses to be made here. | |
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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | More number spinning. GAO or not, I wonder when they got into doing surveys...
The average price of broadband, for what people get out of it, and use it for, is a steal.
I find this one hard to swallow.. we live in a country where we have more televisions per household than many other countries do. Our spending habits are drastically different than other countries. We live in a consumption society where everyone has to have everything and won't throttle their spending habits.
I see it as if people aren't adopting broadband then they're likely wanting to spend money on other things. I also don't get it either.. I don't think I've ever run across anyone in years that doesn't have broadband in their home unless they're old or live in INCREDIBLE poverty..
Broadband prices are NOT high.. either that, or maybe people don't remember that the average "dial up setup" was actually MORE than what we pay for broadband today...
And I'll make it clear.. I do NOT see it a problem to spend $45 a month for the internet.. I use it an INCREDIBLE amount of things.. when AOL was getting $150 a month from people, no one complained.. they GLADLY paid for it.. today, the internet connects multiple computers, devices, and brings so much into the home and costs far less than what it used to cost back in the late 90's for a single dial up connection.. and people bitch.
wow. | |
| | Reviews:
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·Mediacom
 ·T-Mobile US
·Clearwire
·AT&T Wireless Br..
·Comcast
·AT&T DSL Service
·RCN CABLE
2 edits | Re: More number spinning. Well imagine you live in rural country and have daughter or son who can't enjoy watching HD streaming because of 3Mb/s internet only. Lol some people would kill themselves to give their daughter everything!!!
I am on totally different venue. When I was in high school, no one from family or friends paid me or hooked me to any job. I had to find job myself often in a retail store for minimum wage. Once I got to college I got little bit lazier, but still when I want to, I like to stay up late some nights to do extra bit of study or work. Maybe then I compensate with whole slept morning, but no one disturbs me.
Now I am out of college, working on certifications in addition to my dimploma and searching for a job in my field. I had to borrow out some student loans to cover tuition, charge my credit card which I had not paid in full yet for certification exams, study materials.
In addition my parents have no health coverage and rely only on my own to get good sufficient coverage. And I am not too healthy, I have medical conditions that require some extra exams as soon as possible but with my crappy individual health insurance coverage (being underinsured) and no money for out of pocket expenses for thousands of dollars, I have to make it through whats left of me to finally get a job and better insurance coverage.
But yeah, we will always come across SPOILED people everyday who will bitch even about small stuff ot find a small inconvenience and it will them DISTURB SO MUCH that they will make a judgement and make decisions out of it. Be it a slightly dirtier carpet, old loud refrigerator, unperfect neighbor, ugly girl (because she doesn't use make up), friend coming out of closet (which is nothing wrong with it) or too hot summer! | |
| | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: More number spinning. Your life sounds LARGELY like mine... I had nothing handed to me.. I worked for everything.. struggled for most of it. I worked a number of minimum wage jobs; three at the same time actually. Which, to be honest, you don't hear many people talk about these days do we? ... how many people here boast about how they work three jobs to be able not to just afford their toys, but to better themselves...? I'm not that old either.. I just turned 37.
But, because I speak largely through my struggles and my hard work to get to what I have today, I'm labeled a republican.. I'm called a shill, a mouthpiece, etc.. and why? .. I think it's because I worked for what I have.. NOTHING was EVER given to me.. and I feel the pain of what it's like to bust my ass to have what I have.. yet people want to complain about spending a dime on what they consider a "necessity".. and largely want to label a utility.. and why? ... most likely because they want to be able to save enough money as they can, .... so they can buy more "toys"... iPods/MP3 players, eat out more, take trips, etc. Know what? Know the last time I took an actual vacation was? February 0f 2001. I wonder of all these people that complain for what they pay for the internet and bitch about buying a song or a movie and all the rest.. I wonder when the last time they got two days off together, much less two days off in a week, much less even a full day off in a week.. AND got a vacation. I rarely get a week that goes by where to take a full day off. Ahhhh, the joys of working hard to maintain and sustain all that I worked for... fyi, I'm a small business owner and worked hard to get there. | |
| | | | | | Re: More number spinning. said by fiberguy:Your life sounds LARGELY like mine... I had nothing handed to me.. I worked for everything.. struggled for most of it. I worked a number of minimum wage jobs; three at the same time actually. Which, to be honest, you don't hear many people talk about these days do we? ... how many people here boast about how they work three jobs to be able not to just afford their toys, but to better themselves...? I'm not that old either.. I just turned 37. But, because I speak largely through my struggles and my hard work to get to what I have today, I'm labeled a republican.. I'm called a shill, a mouthpiece, etc.. and why? .. I think it's because I worked for what I have.. NOTHING was EVER given to me.. and I feel the pain of what it's like to bust my ass to have what I have.. yet people want to complain about spending a dime on what they consider a "necessity".. and largely want to label a utility.. and why? ... most likely because they want to be able to save enough money as they can, .... so they can buy more "toys"... iPods/MP3 players, eat out more, take trips, etc. Know what? Know the last time I took an actual vacation was? February 0f 2001. I wonder of all these people that complain for what they pay for the internet and bitch about buying a song or a movie and all the rest.. I wonder when the last time they got two days off together, much less two days off in a week, much less even a full day off in a week.. AND got a vacation. I rarely get a week that goes by where to take a full day off. Ahhhh, the joys of working hard to maintain and sustain all that I worked for... fyi, I'm a small business owner and worked hard to get there. Yeah, like you're the only one who ever had to work hard. Give me a break! People have a right to complain about the shitty pricing and service for all types of internet access in the USA. If the Telecom Act of 1996 had been adhered to, we might all have excellent service at reasonable prices, and we would not have the telcos interfering with content delivery. In any case, most people work hard for their money, and when they're being jerked around for below the line fees, putting up with crappy infrastructure, lousy customer service, fucked up billing practices and still paying some of the highest prices for service in the world, they have a right, no, a DUTY to complain. | |
| | | | | | | | | | |  coldmoonPremium
join:2002-02-04
Broadway, NC
·Windstream
1 edit | Re: More number spinning. Hi,
I know this is not directed at me, but there are some points that I would like to make here:
said by fiberguy:
So are you looking for some kind of a competition? I'm guessing that the school system failed you and made life hard as well? My post VERY much, if you reads, talks about how people here ASSume I am one thing because of where I am today, and not where I came from.
Yes, I am looking for competition, but not "a competition". Just making a point that we all work hard to do better than the generation which preceded us and to strive towards our personal goals. It is one of the better things that separate our culture from many in the wider world.
To be clear however, I would say my life has been good, hard work and all. At the moment, I would not change a thing and am glad I have had the opportunity to be successful (which I do consider myself to be). I attended excellent public schools in the state I was born in and had access to a a superb college education through the state system in different states. This also sets the US apart from other countries.
quote:
...But, while we're on the subject... I am one of many that proves that if people WORK HARD they can make something of themselves. No one NEEDS to feed off the tit of the government..
I totally agree. In my time I have worked as field hand when I was young and have worked hard to rise to the level of senior management in more than one business while doing so from remote locations. You are only limited by your imagination and will to see "it" through, regardless of what "it" is. This is an attitude instilled by my parents who lived through WWII and my grandparents who lived through the Great Depression. A pity that the younger generations have not had this in their lives and expect things to be handed to them while getting frustrated when you mention the work "work".
quote:
...and even through all of your completely un-necessary lashing out of me for your own failures,...
Everyone fails at some point or there would be nothing to learn. I see any failure I have experienced as a teaching experience so I know better the next time around. And as history proves again and again, the next failure is going to come; how you react to it and go forward is the real litmus test.
quote:
...you may not also realize that MY generation, which was largely late 80's early 90's, was during an incredible time of high prices.. tell me, have YOU ever paid a $350 land-line phone bill? How have your power bills been?
More frequently than I would like to recall and over a number of years that span recent history. And I am always looking for ways to reduce my light bill so I fail to see the distinction here...
quote:
...Some people think what they pay today is "outrageous"... however, WAKE UP... smell it.. things were FAR more expensive when the government had tight regulations on more things.. even air travel was more expensive...
Take a closer look the next time you fly. Have you been paying for your in-flight meals and that piece of luggage that is about to explode because taking more than one bag is too expensive? What about those mystery fees that just seem to appear when you pay for the ticket that did not show up when you looked at the advertised price?
Prices were heavily regulated in the 70s with better service and I remember that dollar lasting allot longer than it does now. Deregulation has been a crap shoot with the consumer being the one who has been shot more often than not.
quote:
...So seriously.. spare me the lashing out for your miseries.. each persons life is a product of their own choices. If you aren't doing well, that's your fault...
I am doing well, in fact, better than most in my humble county here in North Carolina. This isn't about me, my success or lack of it, it is about ridiculously exorbitant prices we pay for access to sub-standard broadband services that are completely out of whack with the rest of the world.
quote:
...MILLIONS of Mexicans cross our borders so they can come here, work their asses off to make something of themselves, and people like you and others come here and BITCH because they have to pay about $40 a month for an internet connection when they make even $12 an hour...
While I question why Mexican immigrant labor has anything to do with the price of broadband in central NC, I too applaud their work ethic and striving for a better life. Reminds me of the way Americans used to be. We should all take a lesson from our Latin brothers and work to do more with less...
As for $40 USD/month for broadband services, I would jump at that in a heartbeat. Try getting a usable connection (or one that should be) for less than $60/month here; not going to happen any time in the near future without competition.
Next, $12/hour would be a nice wage. As a salaried employee, I make a great deal less than that as I am on call and work 24/7. When you average that per hour with the sheer responsibility of my position, you might think I was insane. Thankfully, money is the least of my personal motivations, but is important when it comes time to pay the bills...
quote:
...Many people have NO idea of what sacrifice is.. try asking your parents.. try asking people who actually served in the military during war times..
LOL - try growing up in a 70X12 trailer with 10 people and I think you will get a grasp of sacrifice. I can remember my father walking 13 miles to work in the 70s when the roads were impassible due to a snow fall and no removal at 6 in the morning just so we would be able to purchase enough groceries to feed all the hungry mouths. Is that sacrifice?
Ever heard of party land lines when you couldn't afford a private line? Try getting an open moment to make a call, even if it were an emergency. Is that sacrifice?
Try making your own meals when you were 10 because the parents were working 12-14 hour days to keep a roof over your head. Is that sacrifice?
My brother served in Uncle Ronny's navy in the 80s, got an honorable discharge, and then joined the Army to fight in Iraq; coming home this summer. Is that sacrifice?
quote:
...try asking people who actually go with out, including TV of all kinds, in order to prioritize their lives.. try not going to a move, to a nightclub or even simply dining out. ...
Movies? Eating out at restaurants? Going out meant a quick trip to Carroll's (sorry, BurgerKing to those too young to remember) and getting a hamburger and some fries thrown down your throat. And going to a movie was going to the local drivein once every few months or watching the movie of the week on one of the three stations that were availble. The first time I went out to a movie was to rent a VCR or Beta tape in the 80s.
quote:
...It really does sicken me when people feel they need to "complain" and have a "right to complain" because someone's not "giving them a break" such as the government...
And how many concessions have you gotten benefit from as a small business owner? How many tax reduction programs provided by federal, state or local governments have you had access to? Did you say no and pay the older, higher tax rate? I doubt it and any protestations of the opposite will not be believable.
quote:
...and you want "crappy infrastructure"... go back 20 years and see what we had and what we paid for it comparatively..
I grew up in a poor rural county near Lake Ontario and can remember roads being well taken care of. Fewer pot holes, faster service, and structurally sound bridges. What do we have now?
quote:
...you want better customer service? ... why not dis-associate from the crowd of the entitled who play companies for their promotions to get a selfish break they don't deserve...
Living in rural America has no relationship to entitlement. Why should those of us who grew up in the country need to pull up stakes and go to the cities to get competitive pricing on Internet services? Why should rural Americans be discriminated against when it is these areas that are hit hardest by economic downturns? All we want is a level playing field where we can compete with everyone else. If you actually got out of your crowded city for a few hours and met the hard working people that live in the country, you would get a better idea of what hard work is and the effect that an uncompetitive environment has on their prospects for making a good living...
quote:
...it's CRAP LIKE THAT in which causes companies to leap frog the consumer and cut back because they KNOW it's become part of today's "competitive market" and how the customer is going to react at every turn. Also, 'fucked up billing practices' are nothing new.
Doing the same thing over and over does not a solution make. It is also the first sign of insanity which is a good description of the current setup. I wouldn't know anything about playing one provider off on another however as there is only one game in town where I live with monopolistic service pricing. People in the cities would not stand for this state of affairs for even a second, Why should we in rural areas not demand the same level of service reliability and pricing?
quote:
...You have not DUTY or "RIGHT" to complain.. that will get you NO WHERE. ...
ROTHFLMAO! If no one had complained, would the Boston Tea Party have happened? The Revolutionary war? The Constitution? The Bill of Rights? The vote for women? Minimum wage? The right to organize into unions? Health care for the 911 responders? Sexual harassment and anti-stalking laws? Etc, etc, etc...
quote:
...What you DO have a right to do is to do the RIGHT thing and that starts with not believing that everything is a RIGHT in the first place. ...
There are a number of rights spelled out in the Constitution and (not ironically) the Bill of Rights. Are you saying that these only apply to those you think should have them or live in urban areas?
quote:
...You have a right to NOT have something in order to prove your point. You have a right to contact and communicate your grievances with these companies who have done you wrong and treat you badly and tell them "until you clean up your act and listen to me, I will not buy from you OR your competitor.. and a promotional come-back offer won't be good enough".. THAT is what you have a "RIGHT" to do. ...
And what if there are no competitors to choose from? What then? How would you even the playing field without enforcing some form of competition or rules that create competition naturally?
quote:
...So, no.. ALL you are trying to do is force your views through the government back into the private market place.. ask California just how well that is working for them. Look back into history and see just how well government control and regulation served the country.. you have NO idea how much better things are today than they were just years ago. ...
Read the article and see where the use of anti-monopolistic rules and regulations have led to lower prices, innovation, better choices, and better service because the providers were forced to compete for customers. In a capitalistic system, competition is the ONLY way to get the most bang for your buck. As a business owner myself (not just an exec, but also an owner), I would welcome competition in my area as it would improve my bottom line. Do you go to a single supplier for your business or do you "play" vendors off against each other every month?
quote:
...Really - an education, a trip down memory lane, NOT listening to other whiners, and actually looking at facts will do you far more good than to come to a blog website and beat someone up like me for talking to ANOTHER USER that I agree with about OUR lives, which are our individual choices.. while you sit here and tell us how wronged you are and how you have a right to bitch about it so that SOMEONE ELSE will do something for you. ...
Being silent is the surest way to become oppressed. This country was founded by a group I guess you would think of as "whiners" but I see it differently. I was taught and heartily believe that every man and woman has the DUTY to speak up and be heard. It is the foundation of democracy and a significant responsibility we all have as Americans (ref: civics). If you want to live in a society where dissent is not allowed, there are a plethora to choose from...
JMHO
Mike
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Returnil - 21st Century body armor for your PC | |
| | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: More number spinning. You totally missed my point.. you do reply with SOME good points, many I still disagree with , such as the price of a flight even when you ala cart every thing at today's prices compared to yesteryear.. but still.. not the forum for it here. Also, I never compared how Mexicans crossing the border for a better life to broadband prices.. I'm guessing that you, like many, still think that broadband is O2.. our broadband in this country is actually quite better than many other parts of the world.. that's an argument I won't entertain..
But still.. you missed the main point of my original post.. it's all there, in black and white.. you're welcome to read back if you care. But.. no need to carry this on.  | |
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| | | coldmoonPremium
join:2002-02-04
Broadway, NC Reviews:
·Windstream
1 edit | I too worked for everything I had, lost, and then got back again when my fortunes improved as I got older. I am also old enough to have lived through 8 presidents and can tell you from experience that the people get nothing until they come together and force change for the better.
Being a Republican and espousing their world view is just as bad as being a Democrat and drinking the same cool-aid. Both parties cater to their largest contributors with an occasional bone thrown to the people in an effort to keep them quiet and unaware of what is really going on.
Put the glass down and start thinking critically.
With that said, the subject of this discussion is about high service prices being a hindrance to Broadband adoption. This is true of any business which you should be well aware of. Ask a higher price for that widget or bagel you are selling and you will find you have fewer customers (called the theory of supply and demand) and your COMPETITORS will be more than happy to take those customers from you.
There were many reasons for breaking up Ma Bell (all good) and with the fact that many of us rely entirely upon the Internet to make a living, it is imperative for us to work to reduce our overhead as it is for you in your business. Are we asking for a hand out? No, we are simply asking for fair and transparent pricing so we also have the ability to predict and control our costs over time.
Leave the political hyperbole in the Red/Blue rooms and wake up to what is going on. Competition is a cornerstone of capitalism and as a Republican you should be all "on the bus" with the idea of lowering prices, improving services, and making it easier for the common man to improve his position in the world...
JMHO
Mike
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Returnil - 21st Century body armor for your PC
Edit: clarity | |
| | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: More number spinning. And Mike, I largely agree with you.
Two quick things:
1) and I've said this many times.. you govern from the middle.. not the extreme swings. Each party wants THEIR control.. they have their base, but always admit and fight for that slim middle vote.. that says a lot!
2) I agree about price. Old school corporate people will soon die out and THAT is where most of the change in our environment comes from. Old school, okay, OLD PEOPLE in control don't get it and can't see past their own generation. Yes, dropping the price WILL bring more people in.. in the case of the ISPs (phone/cable) if they dropped the price by say even 25% over night, they'd see an INCREDIBLE amount of business and an increase in revenue. But, the old powers that be can't see past their old ways.
But, still, I have a valid point too. People in this country have the right to make personal choices. If people get as much out of the internet a they say, ... and fight all the time here about why it's a necessity over that of a convenience, then cough up the $35 to $40 a month.
Just because something is important doesn't mean that it needs to be cheap.. and SURELY doesn't' mean it needs to be subsidized either. If it's THAT important, people need to figure out what they're going to give up (such as the daily Latte or starbucks, or other "crap" to pay for that internet connection.
And I wonder.. how many people that DO bitch about the price of an internet connection actually spend more at starbucks on coffee than they do that internet line.. and how many would be willing to take a few minutes of their day to brew it at home, fill up a travel mug, and bring it with them to, I dunno, SAVE about $100 a month? (For them, I feel no pity).. again, it's personal choice.
There's always multiple angles and multiple ways to see things. However, here, there is an INCREDIBLE population of extremists who see only one side and one way. (Extremists.. I hate to draw this contrast and picture, but anyone else know who, too, were extremists? .. they took down two of the tallest towers in America. THAT is about the result you get when you can't see past one's OWN personal view and forces it onto others.. you get a disaster) This is a reality that MOST people will reject because it's too real to comprehend.
No one wants to make change.. they want to bitch about it and think that blogging will make a change.. it doesn't. Change starts with personal sacrifice... something that very few people here either know, or are willing to do. It's the generation of "lazy" and "entitlement".. neither of which I will be supportive of. | |
| | | | | | coldmoonPremium
join:2002-02-04
Broadway, NC Reviews:
·Windstream
| Re: More number spinning. said by fiberguy:
And Mike, I largely agree with you.
Two quick things:
1) and I've said this many times.. you govern from the middle.. not the extreme swings. Each party wants THEIR control.. they have their base, but always admit and fight for that slim middle vote.. that says a lot!
The major problem in recent history is that the "middle" is sliding too far to the right and needs adjustment. As a comparison, the current administration is actually seen as right wing by the real socialists and communists which also says allot.
quote:
...2) I agree about price. Old school corporate people will soon die out and THAT is where most of the change in our environment comes from. Old school, okay, OLD PEOPLE in control don't get it and can't see past their own generation. Yes, dropping the price WILL bring more people in.. in the case of the ISPs (phone/cable) if they dropped the price by say even 25% over night, they'd see an INCREDIBLE amount of business and an increase in revenue. But, the old powers that be can't see past their old ways.
The key in every generation has been to out innovate your competitors. The problem comes not with deregulation, but the back-room deals that keep competitors out. A good example is the efforts on the part of service providers to have muni-fiber initiatives killed so competition would not rear its "ugly" head. While muni projects have not delivered all they said they would, it has forced providers to lower prices by offering more services. This is a positive result, even if the munis fail.
quote:
...But, still, I have a valid point too. People in this country have the right to make personal choices. If people get as much out of the internet a they say, ... and fight all the time here about why it's a necessity over that of a convenience, then cough up the $35 to $40 a month.
As mentioned in my previous post to your reply to "ross", monopolistic pricing is the only thing available and I pay it because the connection is necessary for my livelihood. That doesn't make it right and puts me at an automatic disadvantage to those I compete against in urban areas.
Ma Bell was regulated and then broken up because it was a monopoly. Why should we stand for false monopolies to be imposed on us because of the simple fact that we live in a rural area instead of an over crowded, noisy city?
quote:
...Just because something is important doesn't mean that it needs to be cheap.. and SURELY doesn't' mean it needs to be subsidized either. If it's THAT important, people need to figure out what they're going to give up (such as the daily Latte or starbucks, or other "crap" to pay for that internet connection.
Priorities are priorities regardless of what they are and you budget accordingly or you go out of business. That is not the issue here, monopolistic pricing and poor service are. Even paying my bills, having my central "machinery" crapping out on me regularly without any way to replace or improve its performance hurts my business just as effectively as having to pay more for a lesser service that is available to my competitors. If competition is blocked, there is no other recourse than regulation. I would prefer natural competition to regulation, but you have to work with what is available to you...
quote:
...And I wonder.. how many people that DO bitch about the price of an internet connection actually spend more at starbucks on coffee than they do that internet line.. and how many would be willing to take a few minutes of their day to brew it at home, fill up a travel mug, and bring it with them to, I dunno, SAVE about $100 a month? (For them, I feel no pity).. again, it's personal choice.
That is a straw man argument. While there are undoubtedly a large number of people that would be better off creating and sticking to a budget, that is not the problem you or I have as business owners or we would be on the soup line. In the past, before the internet, I would have to rent an office and commute to work every day at a high cost. The Internet however allows me to work from anywhere and also allows me to be significantly more productive. The productivity gains alone make the service essential and brings in the money that I spend at local businesses. This brings more money into the local economy and might even be enough for some businesses to hire that extra guy over time.
It is all relative. Eisenhower spent billions on the Interstate highway system and look what it did for the prosperity of all Americans? The Internet is the 21st century analogy to that and in these economic times we need to be improving our infrastructure if we expect to compete against those countries that ARE moving aggressively to exploit that resource.
quote:
...There's always multiple angles and multiple ways to see things. However, here, there is an INCREDIBLE population of extremists who see only one side and one way. (Extremists.. I hate to draw this contrast and picture, but anyone else know who, too, were extremists? .. they took down two of the tallest towers in America. THAT is about the result you get when you can't see past one's OWN personal view and forces it onto others.. you get a disaster) This is a reality that MOST people will reject because it's too real to comprehend.
As a native son of New York state, that reference is both insulting and unnecessary. To compare a group of dirt-bag terrorists who have nothing other than evil intentions with honest Americans expressing their opinions while working to improve the lot of others besides themselves is beyond the pale.
Taking advantage of your right to be heard as an American citizen regarding discriminatory and monopolistic Internet service pricing and quality has no relevance whatsoever to cowards that fly planes into buildings just to make some kind of insane "statement".
quote:
...No one wants to make change.. they want to bitch about it and think that blogging will make a change.. it doesn't. Change starts with personal sacrifice... something that very few people here either know, or are willing to do. It's the generation of "lazy" and "entitlement".. neither of which I will be supportive of.
Have you ever heard the old saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"? If no one complains, nothing happens. While it is true that if just one person complains, little will be done; it is also true that when enough people complain, things happen, and happen quickly (just ask Apple or the GAP about this eh?)
JMHO
Mike
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Returnil - 21st Century body armor for your PC | |
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Go back to 1999. Yes there was competition in internet access until DSL and DOCSIS broadband internet transport was invented. Prices went down from $24.95 a month in 1996 to about $14.95 a month at the end of 1999. Why? Competition! Anyone could lease voice lines from the local telephone company and an access line to the internet and become a dial-up ISP. The only solution here would be to require Cable and Telephone Data Transport Companies to become a transmission media like the telephone companies were to dial up ISP's. It is time for line sharing with regulated monthly cost like voice telephone service.