Gamerail Stress TestingOfficial launch date remains murky... ( old news - 09:14AM Monday Apr 09 2007) Gamerail is a new service that plans to offer users a few routing shortcuts (via the Broadwing Communications network) in order to decrease latency for an extra $10-$15 per month. Users in our forums recently offered up some beta impressions and traceroutes -- and this YouTube video offers up an idea of what the GUI looks like. According to Light Reading, the service is still in beta, and the company continues hunting for beta testers and partner ISPs in order to stress test the network.
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CrazyFingers
join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO | I'm sure it will work great! 
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Burrow owl...burrow owl... | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
| Re: I'm sure it will work great! said by MxxCon  :i wouldn't call it "snake oil" since it's affects are scientific and documented however I'd rather see those $10-15 being invested into infrastructure that would help internet as a whole and not just some isolated service to a few servers. It's isolated for gamers, not the general public since the general public doesn't care about ping times to game servers, hence the name GameRail not ThewholeinternetRail. | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
1 edit | Re: I'm sure it will work great! said by MxxCon :um..DUH..what's the point of your reply? And the point of this reply? Oh that's right, you don't have one  | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
1 edit | Re: I'm sure it will work great! said by MxxCon :no...that's nowhere near to what i said. ..nm..why even bother. You didn't? I'll post your response once more.
however I'd rather see those $10-15 being invested into infrastructure that would help internet as a whole and not just some isolated service to a few servers.
Sure looks like that's exactly what you said
And you are right, why even bother, you said it but hey, why bother right? | |
| brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL | hmm I'm not impressed | |
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twizlar
I dont think so.
Premium
join:2003-12-24
Brantford, ON
 ·Mountain Cable
| Gamerail BLOWSGamerail BLOWS
First IP is in one of gamerails racks in chicago, the 2nd is also in chicago in equinix
Tracing route to 208.75.25.70 over a maximum of 30 hops
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 17 ms 5 ms 5 ms 10.150.0.1
3 8 ms 7 ms 8 ms border.mountaincable.net [24.215.3.129]
4 21 ms 8 ms 10 ms ra2sh-ge3-4-14.mt.bigpipeinc.com [66.244.223.237]
5 9 ms 7 ms 7 ms rc1sh-ge9-0-6.mt.shawcable.net [66.163.66.49]
6 20 ms 21 ms 19 ms rc1hu-pos5-0-0.ny.shawcable.net [66.163.77.154]
7 24 ms 22 ms 22 ms 64.243.225.142
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 42 ms 47 ms 41 ms 208.75.25.70
Trace complete.
Tracing route to 64.34.240.161 over a maximum of 30 hops
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 9 ms 6 ms 6 ms 10.150.0.1
3 9 ms 8 ms 9 ms border.mountaincable.net [24.215.3.129]
4 10 ms 9 ms 6 ms VLN.Serialx-x-x.GWx.POPx.ALTER.NET [63.115.224.73]
5 11 ms 7 ms 9 ms 0.so-6-0-2.XT2.TOR2.ALTER.NET [152.63.133.78]
6 27 ms 27 ms 26 ms 0.so-6-0-0.XL2.CHI13.ALTER.NET [152.63.70.105]
7 23 ms 27 ms 23 ms POS7-0.GW1.CHI13.ALTER.NET [152.63.69.181]
8 24 ms 30 ms 23 ms bandwidthoptions.net-gw.customer.alter.net [157.130.173.238]
9 23 ms 37 ms 23 ms peer1-chi01-ge2-core1-equinix.ord.gowebman.com [69.90.119.10]
10 24 ms 22 ms 24 ms 209.8.108.22
11 21 ms 24 ms 23 ms 64.34.240.161
Trace complete.
It doubles my ping to chicago servers, and triples it to dallas. When i ping one of their dallas servers from my own dallas box at the planet it routes through L.A > denver > back to dallas.
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AMD Athlon64 4000+ @ 2723mhz - mountaincable.net wireless Intarweb |Ipods SUCK | |
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EnasYorl
Thieves World
join:2001-12-02
West
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Gamerail BLOWSsaid by twizlar :Gamerail BLOWS First IP is in one of gamerails racks in chicago, the 2nd is also in chicago in equinix Tracing route to 208.75.25.70 over a maximum of 30 hops
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 17 ms 5 ms 5 ms 10.150.0.1
3 8 ms 7 ms 8 ms border.mountaincable.net [24.215.3.129]
4 21 ms 8 ms 10 ms ra2sh-ge3-4-14.mt.bigpipeinc.com [66.244.223.237]
5 9 ms 7 ms 7 ms rc1sh-ge9-0-6.mt.shawcable.net [66.163.66.49]
6 20 ms 21 ms 19 ms rc1hu-pos5-0-0.ny.shawcable.net [66.163.77.154]
7 24 ms 22 ms 22 ms 64.243.225.142
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 42 ms 47 ms 41 ms 208.75.25.70
Trace complete.
Tracing route to 64.34.240.161 over a maximum of 30 hops
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 9 ms 6 ms 6 ms 10.150.0.1
3 9 ms 8 ms 9 ms border.mountaincable.net [24.215.3.129]
4 10 ms 9 ms 6 ms VLN.Serialx-x-x.GWx.POPx.ALTER.NET [63.115.224.73]
5 11 ms 7 ms 9 ms 0.so-6-0-2.XT2.TOR2.ALTER.NET [152.63.133.78]
6 27 ms 27 ms 26 ms 0.so-6-0-0.XL2.CHI13.ALTER.NET [152.63.70.105]
7 23 ms 27 ms 23 ms POS7-0.GW1.CHI13.ALTER.NET [152.63.69.181]
8 24 ms 30 ms 23 ms bandwidthoptions.net-gw.customer.alter.net [157.130.173.238]
9 23 ms 37 ms 23 ms peer1-chi01-ge2-core1-equinix.ord.gowebman.com [69.90.119.10]
10 24 ms 22 ms 24 ms 209.8.108.22
11 21 ms 24 ms 23 ms 64.34.240.161
Trace complete. It doubles my ping to chicago servers, and triples it to dallas. When i ping one of their dallas servers from my own dallas box at the planet it routes through L.A > denver > back to dallas. Their network isn't fully live. If you read the forums on Gamerail. | |
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twizlar
I dont think so.
Premium
join:2003-12-24
Brantford, ON | Re: Gamerail BLOWS I know however they are peered directly with the same upstream providers in dallas.
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AMD Athlon64 4000+ @ 2723mhz - mountaincable.net wireless Intarweb |Ipods SUCK | |
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EnasYorl
Thieves World
join:2001-12-02
West
·Verizon Online DSL
3 edits | Re: Gamerail BLOWS said by twizlar :I know however they are peered directly with the same upstream providers in dallas. What city are you connected too with Gamerail? If it's not the same city your in, then milage can and will vary allot.
Gamespy won't be for everyone when it's 1st released. Only 6 major cities will be available at launch. Then it will expand to 15 cities later.
They only are peering here so far and not all live.
Public Peering Exchange Points
Exchange Point Name ASN IP Address Mbit/sec
AIX 14960 198.32.132.56 1000
Any2 14960 206.223.143.10 1000
Equinix Chicago 14960 206.223.119.42 1000
Equinix Dallas 14960 1000
NYIIX 14960 198.32.160.180 1000
PAIX Palo Alto 14960 Go Live 5/1/07 1000
SIX 14960 198.32.180.72 1000
Private Peering Facilities
Facility Name ASN City Country SONET Ethr ATM
1 Wilshire 14960 Los Angeles US
Bandwidth Exchange Meet Me Room (St Louis) 14960 St. Louis US
Equinix Chicago 14960 Chicago US
NYCC (111 8th MMR) 14960 New York US
TelX Atlanta 14960 Atlanta US
Westin Building Seattle 14960 Seattle US | |
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twizlar
I dont think so.
Premium
join:2003-12-24
Brantford, ON
·Mountain Cable
| Re: Gamerail BLOWS I don't think you are understanding me. I'm not using the GameRail client. Those are servers located exclusively on their network which peers directly with the same providers in dallas and yet their routing is completely messed up. The packets should not be routed from dallas to LA to Denver and BACK to dallas when gamerail is peered directly to them. This has nothing to do with the client side and everything to do with their backbone routing and peering arrangements. I used traceroutes from here as an example. IF they were setup properly I should not have a higher ping and more hops to a server located on their network as opposed to one that isn't the packets SHOULD take the best route
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AMD Athlon64 4000+ @ 2723mhz - mountaincable.net wireless Intarweb |Ipods SUCK | |
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EnasYorl
Thieves World
join:2001-12-02
West
·Verizon Online DSL
2 edits | Re: Gamerail BLOWS said by twizlar :I don't think you are understanding me. I'm not using the GameRail client. Those are servers located exclusively on their network which peers directly with the same providers in dallas and yet their routing is completely messed up. The packets should not be routed from dallas to LA to Denver and BACK to dallas when gamerail is peered directly to them. This has nothing to do with the client side and everything to do with their backbone routing and peering arrangements. I used traceroutes from here as an example. IF they were setup properly I should not have a higher ping and more hops to a server located on their network as opposed to one that isn't the packets SHOULD take the best route You cannot say Gamerail Blows then if your not using Gamerails network via the client. As your issue is with your ISP as your not bypassing hops to take advantage of Gamerail.
Thanks for clarifying to the thread that you are NOT using Gamerail.
Suggested reading material »www.gamerail.com/index.php?famil···,details | |
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twizlar
I dont think so.
Premium
join:2003-12-24
Brantford, ON
·Mountain Cable
1 edit | Re: Gamerail BLOWS i'm not talking about the client side of gamerail, only their network and routing. ANY provider that doubles or triples latency is garbage, regardless of if they are using the client or not. There is no reason for pings to be higher to a server in the SAME building with the same available upstream providers. You are missing the entire point, and the possible future implications for server providers.
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AMD Athlon64 4000+ @ 2723mhz - mountaincable.net wireless Intarweb |
Ipods SUCK | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| Re: Gamerail BLOWS The peering arrangements should be done from one clear shot am I correct?
You are using two different hops at a peering point with one having more congestion than the other and you are stating that Gamerails network is the one with the higher latency if I am understanding you.
Either way if the routing was longer the pipes are most likely dedicated and used specifically for gaming which still provides lower latency even at longer distances.
While a more significant improvement will be if it where a clear shot, that does not seem to be the case here, but in theory if the pipes are not congested with regular traffic then you will still see some benefit but not as much.
I live in FL, and I am routed all the way to Atlanta, GA where my POP is located. My first hop is 30ms in latency due to that distance.
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The only limits we have are the one's we set ourselves. | |
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EnasYorl
Thieves World
join:2001-12-02
West
·Verizon Online DSL
2 edits | said by twizlar :I'm not talking about the client side of gamerail, only their network and routing. ANY provider that doubles or triples latency is garbage, regardless of if they are using the client or not. There is no reason for pings to be higher to a server in the SAME building with the same available upstream providers. You are missing the entire point, and the possible future implications for server providers. You are not using GameRails network, as the GameRail Engineer »Re: Gamerail BLOWS told you as well as I. So how can you comment on something you're not even routing across.
Just because a Gamerail Test Server is reachable from the internet doesn't mean your using their custom network to bypass router hops. | |
| | GR_Alchemist
join:2007-02-12
| Maybe you should use the GameRail client and our network when pinging servers instead of just using the internet.
Yes we are still putting hardware in place and rolling out our network. You will get to do a public for free test of this soon enough. | |
| | | liquidgas
join:2004-08-22
Enid, OK | Re: Gamerail BLOWS Are you using any type of packet prioritization? Can't tell much from ping times now'a days. A ICMP packet might not even get the same route as another packet. | |
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EnasYorl
Thieves World
join:2001-12-02
West
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | said by GR_Alchemist :Maybe you should use the GameRail client and our network when pinging servers instead of just using the internet. Yes we are still putting hardware in place and rolling out our network. You will get to do a public for free test of this soon enough. Seattle is shown on Phase 1. So it will or won't be a gateway city where clients can connect too?
It appears to me it won't from the diagram.
»www.gamerail.com/index.php?famil···,details | |
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jessegr
join:2005-03-05
Gatineau, QC | Re: Gamerail BLOWS Seattle is one of the gateways you can connect to. | |
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Mchart
Super Joe
join:2004-01-21
Gurnee, IL
1 edit | Funny I consistantly get ping times that are better then those presented in the youtube video; all on my $23 a month connection.
When will people realize that more bandwidth != low latency? | |
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EnasYorl
Thieves World
join:2001-12-02
West
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | Re: Funny said by Mchart :I consistantly get ping times that are better then those presented in the youtube video; all on my $23 a month connection. When will people realize that more bandwidth != low latency? Good Thing Gamerail is NOT just about bandwidth and IS about latency.
Bandwidth is only a part of latency. Network design is what counts.
»www.gamerail.com/index.php?famil···,details | |
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Mchart
Super Joe
join:2004-01-21
Gurnee, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Funny said by EnasYorl :said by Mchart :I consistantly get ping times that are better then those presented in the youtube video; all on my $23 a month connection. When will people realize that more bandwidth != low latency? Good Thing Gamerail is NOT just about bandwidth and IS about latency. Bandwidth is only a part of latency. Network design is what counts. » www.gamerail.com/index.php?famil···,details Says the funny man with Comcast.
Hint - It starts with your ISP. | |
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EnasYorl
Thieves World
join:2001-12-02
West
·Verizon Online DSL
3 edits | Re: Funny said by Mchart :said by EnasYorl :said by Mchart :I consistantly get ping times that are better then those presented in the youtube video; all on my $23 a month connection. When will people realize that more bandwidth != low latency? Good Thing Gamerail is NOT just about bandwidth and IS about latency. Bandwidth is only a part of latency. Network design is what counts.» www.gamerail.com/index.php?famil···,details Says the funny man with Comcast. Hint - It starts with your ISP. Guess you better re-read my post.
And I have Verizon as well for backup and it gives me different peering points for if I'm inclined to reduce latency to certain servers when possible. | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
| said by EnasYorl :said by Mchart :I consistantly get ping times that are better then those presented in the youtube video; all on my $23 a month connection. When will people realize that more bandwidth != low latency? Good Thing Gamerail is NOT just about bandwidth and IS about latency. Bandwidth is only a part of latency. Network design is what counts. » www.gamerail.com/index.php?famil···,details I would say latency is part of bandwidth, not the other way around  | |
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EnasYorl
Thieves World
join:2001-12-02
West
·Verizon Online DSL
2 edits | Re: Funny said by Cheese :said by EnasYorl :said by Mchart :I consistantly get ping times that are better then those presented in the youtube video; all on my $23 a month connection. When will people realize that more bandwidth != low latency? Good Thing Gamerail is NOT just about bandwidth and IS about latency. Bandwidth is only a part of latency. Network design is what counts. » www.gamerail.com/index.php?famil···,details I would say latency is part of bandwidth, not the other way around Latency is the time it takes to arrive from Point A to Point B.
The 1st Part of Latency is physical distance traveled. SPeed of light in a vacuum is 5.4microseconds/mile (Light in Fiber is slower)
The 2nd Part of Latency is number of routers that have to process the packet. This is where allot of latency is produced.
The 3rd Part of Latency is the Bandwidth of the pipes to each router and how much traffic is competing against other user traffic. If this Pipe isn't overloaded then the issue is how the network is built between Point A and Point B or how many available peering points there are.
You should really read the Gamerail presentation as they explain it pretty well.
But Bandwidth is only a slice of the Latency pie. You cannot say Latency is part of the Bandwidth Pie. | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
| Re: Funny said by EnasYorl :Latency is the time it takes to arrive from Point A to Point B. The 1st Part of Latency is physical distance traveled. SPeed of light in a vacuum is 5.4microseconds/mile (Light in Fiber is slower) The 2nd Part of Latency is number of routers that have to process the packet. This is where allot of latency is produced. The 3rd Part of Latency is the Bandwidth of the pipes to each router and how much traffic is competing against other user traffic. If this Pipe isn't overloaded then the issue is how the network is built between Point A and Point B or how many available peering points there are.You should really read the Gamerail presentation as they explain it pretty well. But Bandwidth is only a slice of the Latency pie. You cannot say Latency is part of the Bandwidth Pie. Thanks for making my point. | |
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EnasYorl
Thieves World
join:2001-12-02
West
·Verizon Online DSL
3 edits | Re: Funny said by Cheese :said by EnasYorl :Latency is the time it takes to arrive from Point A to Point B. The 1st Part of Latency is physical distance traveled. SPeed of light in a vacuum is 5.4microseconds/mile (Light in Fiber is slower) The 2nd Part of Latency is number of routers that have to process the packet. This is where allot of latency is produced. The 3rd Part of Latency is the Bandwidth of the pipes to each router and how much traffic is competing against other user traffic. If this Pipe isn't overloaded then the issue is how the network is built between Point A and Point B or how many available peering points there are.You should really read the Gamerail presentation as they explain it pretty well. But Bandwidth is only a slice of the Latency pie. You cannot say Latency is part of the Bandwidth Pie. Thanks for making my point. Better read that again. I disproved your point.
Otherwise give us your technical explanation to backup up your claim that Latency is only affected by Bandwidth. | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
| Re: Funny said by EnasYorl :said by Cheese :said by EnasYorl :Latency is the time it takes to arrive from Point A to Point B. The 1st Part of Latency is physical distance traveled. SPeed of light in a vacuum is 5.4microseconds/mile (Light in Fiber is slower) The 2nd Part of Latency is number of routers that have to process the packet. This is where allot of latency is produced. The 3rd Part of Latency is the Bandwidth of the pipes to each router and how much traffic is competing against other user traffic. If this Pipe isn't overloaded then the issue is how the network is built between Point A and Point B or how many available peering points there are.You should really read the Gamerail presentation as they explain it pretty well. But Bandwidth is only a slice of the Latency pie. You cannot say Latency is part of the Bandwidth Pie. Thanks for making my point. Better read that again. I disproved your point. Otherwise give us your technical explanation to backup up your claim that Latency is only affected by Bandwidth. If I had actually said latency is only affected by bandwidth...
You might want to get those eyes checked. | |
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EnasYorl
Thieves World
join:2001-12-02
West
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Funny said by Cheese :If I had actually said latency is only affected by bandwidth... You might want to get those eyes checked. The problem with your argument is you claim Bandwidth is the main reason and it's not. | |
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See 7 replies to this post | |
| GR_Thor
join:2007-03-12
Saint Louis, MO
| The first gateway cities are Seattle, LA, Chicago, St Louis, Dallas, Atlanta, and NY. However at this time, only the StL gateway is up.
McHart, it's great that you found some servers to play on that ping well for you. If those are the only servers you use, GameRail probably isn't for you.
For me however, living in a place that does not have a direct internet drain (all of my traffic goes to Dallas or Chicago first, 98% of the time) I ping about 60ms to servers that are less than a mile away from me. Fire up GameRail, and it drops to 10-12ms. To the coasts, I regularly see improvements of ~40ms. This is all on my standard home connection, with no optimizations, or funny business. We can't, and never have, said that GameRail will work for everybody. The internet is a goofy place, and there will always be situations we unfortunately can't help with. That being said, there are lots of cases where we can.
But I guess the only way some people will accept that not everyone on the net is trying to pull one over on them is to try it, which you will be able to. If you don't like it, don't subscribe, but we think a lot of people will. | |
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Mchart
Super Joe
join:2004-01-21
Gurnee, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Funny said by GR_Thor :The first gateway cities are Seattle, LA, Chicago, St Louis, Dallas, Atlanta, and NY. However at this time, only the StL gateway is up. McHart, it's great that you found some servers to play on that ping well for you. If those are the only servers you use, GameRail probably isn't for you. For me however, living in a place that does not have a direct internet drain (all of my traffic goes to Dallas or Chicago first, 98% of the time) I ping about 60ms to servers that are less than a mile away from me. Fire up GameRail, and it drops to 10-12ms. To the coasts, I regularly see improvements of ~40ms. This is all on my standard home connection, with no optimizations, or funny business. We can't, and never have, said that GameRail will work for everybody. The internet is a goofy place, and there will always be situations we unfortunately can't help with. That being said, there are lots of cases where we can. But I guess the only way some people will accept that not everyone on the net is trying to pull one over on them is to try it, which you will be able to. If you don't like it, don't subscribe, but we think a lot of people will. Nah, it's just about choosing the correct ISP. Also, I don't appreciate you coming on here selling your product. | |
| | | | LightS
join:2005-12-17
Granbury, TX
·EarthLink
| Re: Funny Ohh, I love that. He's basically defending against the other posters here who say that his product sucks. It's wrong for you to do, and he's merely defending it.
Also for you other people, this network is good -- They peer with your ISP so you don't have to go with their public network -- instead, the gaming packets are routed directly to the game server.
Please do a little bit of reading before you criticize.. | |
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Mchart
Super Joe
join:2004-01-21
Gurnee, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Funny said by LightS :Ohh, I love that. He's basically defending against the other posters here who say that his product sucks. It's wrong for you to do, and he's merely defending it. Also for you other people, this network is good -- They peer with your ISP so you don't have to go with their public network -- instead, the gaming packets are routed directly to the game server. Please do a little bit of reading before you criticize.. I never claimed his product sucks. I only claimed that various users ISP's suck. | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
| said by Mchart :said by GR_Thor :The first gateway cities are Seattle, LA, Chicago, St Louis, Dallas, Atlanta, and NY. However at this time, only the StL gateway is up. McHart, it's great that you found some servers to play on that ping well for you. If those are the only servers you use, GameRail probably isn't for you. For me however, living in a place that does not have a direct internet drain (all of my traffic goes to Dallas or Chicago first, 98% of the time) I ping about 60ms to servers that are less than a mile away from me. Fire up GameRail, and it drops to 10-12ms. To the coasts, I regularly see improvements of ~40ms. This is all on my standard home connection, with no optimizations, or funny business. We can't, and never have, said that GameRail will work for everybody. The internet is a goofy place, and there will always be situations we unfortunately can't help with. That being said, there are lots of cases where we can. But I guess the only way some people will accept that not everyone on the net is trying to pull one over on them is to try it, which you will be able to. If you don't like it, don't subscribe, but we think a lot of people will. Nah, it's just about choosing the correct ISP. Also, I don't appreciate you coming on here selling your product. Kind of hard to choose the right ISP when most people have 1 choice of cable or DSL. And as far as him selling his product, that's his choice, it's your choice to not respond or read his posts or use the product or, if you don't like him selling his product, create your own forums and not allow him on it. I for one, will be trying this product when I get home. | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
1 edit | Regardless of the posts above by me..... I will be downloading this and testing it tonight since I currently own/rent a 24 pub Ranked BF2142 server.
Er, NM on downloading, must wait, for email if one ever arrives! DOH!  | |
| | markopoleo
join:2003-04-02
Bonne Terre, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Regardless of the posts above by me..... said by Cheese :I will be downloading this and testing it tonight since I currently own/rent a 24 pub Ranked BF2142 server. Er, NM on downloading, must wait, for email if one ever arrives! DOH! Good luck with that, I don't know anyone who tried to get on beta test that has, I tried a couple times even. It seems the only "people" who get on the beta test work for company to promote it..
The company will fail, the company itself promotes itself to a niche market. They market to hardcore gamers, when even hardcore gamers scoff at there product. They don't seem to realize that most hardcore gamers travel to LANs, or are already using great connections (talking people who play for money).
Couple all the with the fact that modern games latency is not as a huge deal anymore. Playing BF2 with 100ms or 10ms you won't see you get magically better or it feels better for you. | |
| | | GR_Thor
join:2007-03-12
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Regardless of the posts above by me..... No, the only people who are on the beta right now are people in the markets we are set up to fully test in.
Why would we want to sort through thousands of reports of data that isn't useful in testing what we need to test? Eventually, there will be an open beta. There will even be a free trial of the service to see if it is for you or not. But right now, we are doing focused testing so that our resources are focused on ironing out what we can without having to coordinate hundreds or thousands (over 9 thousand signed up for beta) of people that can't provide us data we can use.
With only the St Louis gateway up at the moment, and only one ISP in that market fully set up, we /know/ that people out-of-market won't see improvements. It's not a question of testing it, it's just a fact of how the internet works. Just to be safe, we tested it anyway, and once our hypothesis was confirmed, there wasn't a need to beat it to death.
I see that you are in Bonne Terre on Charter. You may be able to access GameRail, but I believe the list was pruned by zip code in the database. Your city probably wasn't in the range specified for our initial test group.
You might want to run the "modern games don't depend on latency" by a few of the hardcore gamers you seem to speak for. I've talked to hundreds both online, and at several large LANs, that have a high interest in our product, and who are very concerned with their latency. Many of them indicate that yes, they can play just fine within their own region, but that they are not fully prepared for the national LAN's, because they never have the opportunity to play teams from other regions before the event.
A team from the east coast and a team from the west coast may never have a chance to play each other because the latency makes it hard to get a representative of LAN play. With GameRail, they could play on a central server that is on the Rail and have acceptable latencies for all involved.
What about teams where the members do not live in the same region? It's always a compromise on server location. Again, GameRail can help.
These are just a few of the scenarios that the "hardcore-gamers" have presented to us as problems. These are the same teams that go to, and win, the big LAN events.
GameRail may not be for the casual player who has a single favorite server that gets good latency that he/she always plays on. We've said this from the start. But don't believe that is representative of the competitive gaming circles, or even all casual gamers.
GameRail as a company is made up of many "hardcore gamers." I personally play in one of the biggest BF2 tournaments, and organize a large, regional, lan party that has brought in several of the top teams/players from CS/CSS, Q3/Q4, and UT. Other GR employees have similar backgrounds in different games. Between us, we have contacts in the industry from top to bottom. From the beginning of this project, there has been continuous feedback as we progress.
Do I believe that we know what every gamer out there wants? No, never, impossible. But I do believe that we have a pretty good idea on what our target market is, and a good idea in what they want to see out of our product. | |
| | | | markopoleo
join:2003-04-02
Bonne Terre, MO | Re: Regardless of the posts above by me..... Sadly your assessment of a "hardcore gamer" is wrong. Most hardcore gamers are laughing AT gamerail.
So good luck on that..lol | |
| | | | |
Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
| Re: Regardless of the posts above by me..... said by markopoleo :Sadly your assessment of a "hardcore gamer" is wrong. Most hardcore gamers are laughing AT gamerail. So good luck on that..lol And I suppose you know all of these hardcore gamers and exactly what they are thinking? Somehow, I seriously doubt that. | |
| | | |
EnasYorl
Thieves World
join:2001-12-02
West
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by GR_Thor :No, the only people who are on the beta right now are people in the markets we are set up to fully test in. Why would we want to sort through thousands of reports of data that isn't useful in testing what we need to test? Eventually, there will be an open beta. There will even be a free trial of the service to see if it is for you or not. But right now, we are doing focused testing so that our resources are focused on ironing out what we can without having to coordinate hundreds or thousands (over 9 thousand signed up for beta) of people that can't provide us data we can use. With only the St Louis gateway up at the moment, and only one ISP in that market fully set up, we /know/ that people out-of-market won't see improvements. It's not a question of testing it, it's just a fact of how the internet works. Just to be safe, we tested it anyway, and once our hypothesis was confirmed, there wasn't a need to beat it to death. I see that you are in Bonne Terre on Charter. You may be able to access GameRail, but I believe the list was pruned by zip code in the database. Your city probably wasn't in the range specified for our initial test group. You might want to run the "modern games don't depend on latency" by a few of the hardcore gamers you seem to speak for. I've talked to hundreds both online, and at several large LANs, that have a high interest in our product, and who are very concerned with their latency. Many of them indicate that yes, they can play just fine within their own region, but that they are not fully prepared for the national LAN's, because they never have the opportunity to play teams from other regions before the event. A team from the east coast and a team from the west coast may never have a chance to play each other because the latency makes it hard to get a representative of LAN play. With GameRail, they could play on a central server that is on the Rail and have acceptable latencies for all involved. What about teams where the members do not live in the same region? It's always a compromise on server location. Again, GameRail can help. These are just a few of the scenarios that the "hardcore-gamers" have presented to us as problems. These are the same teams that go to, and win, the big LAN events. GameRail may not be for the casual player who has a single favorite server that gets good latency that he/she always plays on. We've said this from the start. But don't believe that is representative of the competitive gaming circles, or even all casual gamers. GameRail as a company is made up of many "hardcore gamers." I personally play in one of the biggest BF2 tournaments, and organize a large, regional, lan party that has brought in several of the top teams/players from CS/CSS, Q3/Q4, and UT. Other GR employees have similar backgrounds in different games. Between us, we have contacts in the industry from top to bottom. From the beginning of this project, there has been continuous feedback as we progress. Do I believe that we know what every gamer out there wants? No, never, impossible. But I do believe that we have a pretty good idea on what our target market is, and a good idea in what they want to see out of our product. QFT! | |
| focray
join:2006-08-22
|  As a beta tester...
For all you skeptics out there, here are a few traces using/not using gamerail to the same destination.
Trace to St Louis server, with charter's routing:
Tracing route to static-206.196.106.183.primary.net [206.196.106.183]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 4 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 8 ms 7 ms 7 ms 10.20.0.1
3 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 24.217.2.65
4 8 ms 7 ms 9 ms 12.124.129.97
5 28 ms 27 ms 27 ms tbr1-p032403.sl9mo.ip.att.net [12.123.24.218]
6 29 ms 34 ms 29 ms tbr2-cl6.dlstx.ip.att.net [12.122.10.90]
7 27 ms 28 ms 27 ms ggr1-p370.dlstx.ip.att.net [12.123.16.157]
8 26 ms 28 ms 25 ms att-gw.dfw.broadwing.net [192.205.32.78]
9 29 ms 28 ms 26 ms 216.140.4.158
10 46 ms 44 ms 45 ms P7-0.C0.gnwd.broawing.net [216.140.15.130]
11 45 ms 48 ms 46 ms 216.140.15.153
12 52 ms 53 ms 53 ms 65.91.145.18
13 * 54 ms 53 ms static-216.87.62.241.primary.net [216.87.62.241]
14 54 ms 54 ms 55 ms 205.242.181.2
15 54 ms 55 ms 54 ms static-206.196.106.183.primary.net [206.196.106.
183]
Trace complete.
Tracing route to static-206.196.106.183.primary.net [206.196.106.183]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 15 ms 12 ms 10 ms 10.192.96.1
2 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms 208.75.24.1
3 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms static-216.114.77.205.primarynetwork.com [216.11
4.77.205]
4 18 ms 13 ms 13 ms static-216.87.62.241.primary.net [216.87.62.241]
5 13 ms 12 ms 14 ms 205.242.181.2
6 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms static-206.196.106.183.primary.net [206.196.106.
183]
Trace complete.
As you can clearly see, it drops 9 hops from my path to the same server, and over 40ms in response time. I'm sorry, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that's a HUGE difference in online gameplay.
Trace to LA server, on charter's routing:
Tracing route to unknown.aim2game.com [72.37.147.120]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 7 ms 8 ms 6 ms 10.20.0.1
3 8 ms 7 ms 7 ms 24.217.2.65
4 8 ms 7 ms 8 ms 24.217.2.130
5 42 ms 43 ms 54 ms so-1-2-0.gar2.chi1.bbnplanet.net [4.79.74.1]
6 49 ms 54 ms 53 ms ae-32-56.ebr2.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.68.101.190]
7 44 ms 46 ms 53 ms ae-3.ebr2.Denver1.Level3.net [4.69.132.61]
8 47 ms 52 ms 41 ms ae-3.ebr2.Denver1.Level3.net [4.69.132.61]
9 47 ms 73 ms 53 ms ae-1-100.ebr1.Denver1.Level3.net [4.69.132.37]
10 63 ms 67 ms 78 ms ae-3.ebr2.SanJose1.Level3.net [4.69.132.57]
11 70 ms 66 ms 75 ms ae-1-100.ebr1.SanJose1.Level3.net [4.69.132.1]
12 73 ms 73 ms 84 ms ae-2.ebr1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.69.132.10]
13 * 69 ms 76 ms ae-11-53.car1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.68.102.7
6]
14 72 ms 76 ms 69 ms xe1-0.cr01.lax02.mzima.net [64.235.224.182]
15 76 ms 71 ms 69 ms ge1-1.ar01.lax02.mzima.net [64.235.224.214]
16 69 ms 70 ms 69 ms unknown.aim2game.com [72.37.147.120]
Trace complete.
Tracing route to unknown.aim2game.com [72.37.147.120]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 10.192.96.1
2 10 ms 12 ms 11 ms 208.75.24.1
3 37 ms 30 ms 26 ms 10.128.1.249
4 57 ms 55 ms 55 ms 10.128.1.238
5 55 ms 55 ms 57 ms unknown.aim2game.com [72.37.147.120]
Trace complete.
Enough said. | |
| | 
dodgetech2
join:2002-01-01
Gouldsboro, PA | Re: As a beta tester... Good post.
The product is interesting to me, but I doubt I will ever see then peered with my ISP... | |
| |
jessegr
join:2005-03-05
Gatineau, QC | And that is just the tip of the iceburg. | |
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