Gazing Toward South Korea SK continues role as broadband crystal ball Yet another journalist looks toward South Korea as a template for what our broadband future holds; particularly in the realm of politics and government interaction. While here in the states we're busy trying to fill in broadband coverage holes and provide content isn't just regurgitated television clips, South Korea is already working toward integrating broadband into the way citizens interact with their government. As this Wired article explores, long lines and grumpy clerks are being replaced with on-line forms and database connectivity. The article also explores broadband's impact on political campaigns, social interaction, and entertainment. Many South Koreans are paying $32 a month for a 40MBps connection loaded with the type of content the U.S. probably won't be seeing for years. Those kinds of speeds haven't come without their fair share of problems however, as critics are concerned that the new gaming 'culture', furthered by broadband, is responsible for a growing trend of youth violence. As if leading the world in broadband adoption rates wasn't enough, the South Korean government recently unveiled plans to invest 13.3 trillion won ($10.9 billion) in the country's broadband infrastructure through 2005. The country, with a population of 48 million, has spent $9 billion on building Internet infrastructure since June 1998.
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| If we all lived in New York City it would be easy. Amazing how well you can deploy broadband with a population density of 275 people per square mile.
Still, kudos to South Korea.
Edit - Make that 490 people per square KM, or about 275 per square mile.
[text was edited by author 2003-08-27 18:16:38] | |
|  | damoxPremium
join:2002-01-07
Olympia, WA Reviews:
 ·Comcast Formerl..
| Re: If we all lived in New York City it would be easy. said by joebear29:
Amazing how well you can deploy broadband with a population density of 490 people per square KM, or about 275 per square mile.
Well that's a good point! That's what I've been saying all along. If we only had to worry about wiring one state, and if the federal government was spending money to build the infrastructure, I am sure our speeds would be much faster than they are. As it is, we are sprawled out. Also, I wonder if their farmers receive the same bandwidth as they do in Seoul and Pusan? | |
| |  gogeta6
join:2002-06-20
San Diego, CA | umm square kilometers are smaller than square miles, but its pretty lame LA and NY dont have similar broadband offerings. | |
| | | | | Re: If we all lived in New York City it would be easy. said by gogeta6:
umm square kilometers are smaller than square miles, but its pretty lame LA and NY dont have similar broadband offerings.
Right, so more square people per square km than square mile.
And no, LA and NY don't have similar offerings, but my point is it would be easier to wire the nation if it was more compressed. For example, Alabama is larger than South Korea, we have 4,000,000 people compared to 48,000,000 South Koreans. I suspect wiring South Korea would be more cost effective. | |
| | | | Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
|  Re: If we all lived in New York City it would be easy.
said by joebear29:
Right, so more square people per square km than square mile.
Frankly, Im appalled by your math. If you increase the area you count (Km -> Miles), you increase the people in that area you are counting.
Im ashamed noone here grasped this.
BTW S Korea stats (estimates for mid 2003):
Population ~ 48,300,000 People
Area ~ 98,480 Square Km
Density = 48,300,000 / 98,480 sq Km ~ 490 People/Sq Km
or 48,300,000 / 38,469 sq Miles ~ 1256 People/Sq Mile
Shame on all of you, back to 7th grade algebra for all of you.
USA stats (est 2003):
Pop ~ 290,342,554 People
Area ~ 9,629,091 sq Km
Density = 290,342,554 / 9,629,091 ~ 30 ppl/sq Km!!!
So ISPs have to lay more than 16 times the cable/infrastructure to reach the same # of ppl. That tells you alot!
[text was edited by author 2003-08-28 11:42:49]
[text was edited by author 2003-08-28 11:43:26] | |
| | | | | | | Re: If we all lived in New York City it would be easy. said by joshuad156:
said by joebear29:
Right, so more square people per square km than square mile.
Frankyly, Im appalled by your math. If you increase the area you count (Km -> Miles), you increase the people in that area you are counting.
Im ashamed noone here grasped this.
BTW S Korea stats (estimates for mid 2003):
Population ~ 48.3 Million People
Area ~ 98,480 Square Km
Density = 48,300,000 / 98,480 sq Km ~ 490 People/Sq Km
or 48,300,000 / 38,469 sq Miles ~ 1256 People/Sq Mile
Shame on all of you, back to 7th grade algebra for all of you.
Bah, to think I took calculus in college!
You are of course correct. When I "converted" square km to square miles I did it the lazy way and multiplied by 0.55, when I should have divided by 0.55.
Should have put more thought into the math. | |
| | | | | | | | Re: If we all lived in New York City it would be easy. .55??!?!?!!?? I think i will stop there... | |
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| Re: If we all lived in New York City it would be easy. said by joshuad156:
.55??!?!?!!?? I think i will stop there...
What you think I actually looked it up?
Hmm, lets see 100 km is about 55-60 mph, so 1 km equals .55-.60 miles, correct?
Thats from memory.
Oh, wait, its squared, duh, so it is about 0.4 (since 1 km actually .62 of a mile.)
No, I did not major in math. 
[text was edited by author 2003-08-28 12:18:06] | |
| | | | | | | | Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
|  Re: If we all lived in New York City it would be easy.
Actually:
1 Mile ~ 1.6 Km
.625 Mile ~ 1 Km
But whos counting, right? | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Re: If we all lived in New York City it would be easy. said by joshuad156:
You must forgive me. 1) I am taking this all way off topic, but im in favor of representing correct facts. 2) im a CS major, so Math is of the utmost importance to me.
Actually:
1 Mile ~ 1.6 Km
.625 Mile ~ 1 Km
But whos counting, right?
Lets hope its you, because if its me we're screwed.
And no, I don't work for NASA. | |
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| | |  bhhurdPremium
join:2003-02-13
Pennsburg, PA | Alabama may be larger, but you are forgetting that Korea has mountains. Roughly 70% of the land area is mountainous.
Certainly Inchon, Bucheon and Seoul were relatively easy to connect and inexpensive on a per capita basis. But the rest of the country has many small towns nestled in mountain valleys. | |
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 MEDIAN2k3LocalhostPremium
join:2002-12-04
Bronx, NY
kudos:1 | and to think | |
| | | | Re: and to think You can move to South Korea if you wish. | |
| | ezmanga
join:2002-08-30
Henderson, NV
| quote:
were stuck paying 50 bucks a month for a crappy 10/1 mbit conection and in s korea they get 40MBps for 32 bucks a month, i feel left out :/
I'd kill to have a 10/1 mbit connection for $50 a month.
[text was edited by author 2003-08-27 18:29:37] | |
| | | | said by MEDIAN2k3:
a crappy 10/1 mbit conection
Wow. Isn't it great how grateful and appreciative OOL customers are? They've got lines which are 6-7 times faster than most broadband users' (or 180+ times faster than dial-up) and yet they still call it crappy.
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"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." -- Rich Cook | |
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 nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:5
·Charter
 ·voip.ms
| Some Comparison. South Korea = .
United States = OOOOOOOOO
There are major logistical differences. Comparing the U.S. to a tiny country like S. Korea is flawed. Look how many people in S. Korea still don't even have electricity and live in total poverty.
I'm tired about hearing how "bad" we have it here.
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Put it up, plow it in, pull it through, or shutup and get out of the way - Me. Note to Congress, Re: Cable T.V.- It's time to force divestiture, force open networks, or deregulate the entire telecom industry. Now. | |
| | | | Re: Some Comparison. it's not so much "how "bad"" we have it here, just that it could be so much better. | |
| | | | I'm just going to tackle your comment on how "many people in S. Korea still don't even have electricity and live in total poverty."
According to the CIA World Book info, 4% of the S. Korean population live below poverty line. In comparison, 12.7% of Americans live below the poverty line. | |
| | | BeeperPart Of The Problem
join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH | Re: Some Comparison. said by AlterEgo:
According to the CIA World Book info, 4% of the S. Korean population live below poverty line. In comparison, 12.7% of Americans live below the poverty line.
That's still comparing apples to rolodexes. For a fair comparison, you'd have to determine the poverty line in each nation. For three people in the US, that's about 16,000 bucks.
--
Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism. | |
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| | | I agree with Harsh.. The majority of people in S.Korea go to PC bangs (internet cafes) because they dont have a computer at home. S.Korea is almost the size of Florida so it's much easier for them to provide excellent broaband to everyone. I bet that in less than 5 years, everyone will have fiber optics. Plus, the government puts up alot of money for the technology. We're far behind them in that field, but trust me, our way of life (quality) is muuuuuuuuuuuch better. | |
| | | krynn
join:2003-01-28
Flushing, NY
| Re: Some Comparison. said by Veteran:
I agree with Harsh.. The majority of people in S.Korea go to PC bangs (internet cafes) because they dont have a computer at home.
Majority of people in S.Korea owns at least 2 computers...meaning an average Joe in S.Korea is likely to have a pc (in fact more than one pc) than some southern redneck in the States.
they go to internet cafe just to kill some free time or to play one of their incredible online games all night long alongside their friends. I was totally blown away when I visited S.Korea...some of the contents they provide are simply amazing. You just have no idea how far US is lagging behind until you've seen what S.Koreans have to offer.
[text was edited by author 2003-08-28 01:04:35]
[text was edited by author 2003-08-28 01:06:22] | |
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| netjunk
join:2002-02-20
Centreville, VA | said by nunya:
Look how many people in S. Korea still don't even have electricity and live in total poverty.
Poverty exists everywhere. Much worse in US than Korea. I see a lot more poor lazy people begging for money in D.C., Maryland, Virginia, New York and everywhere else. As for electricity, everyone has it. You must be from some remote corner of the world. | |
| | | | | Re: Some Comparison. said by netjunk:
said by nunya:
Look how many people in S. Korea still don't even have electricity and live in total poverty.
Poverty exists everywhere. Much worse in US than Korea. I see a lot more poor lazy people begging for money in D.C., Maryland, Virginia, New York and everywhere else. As for electricity, everyone has it. You must be from some remote corner of the world.
Boy, are you informed. Someone at my church also though I was kidding that poor people in my country only wear a piece of rag covering their privates. Everyone has electricity?????? Do your homework dude!! Several things we take for granted here are far-fetched dreams in some parts of the world. | |
| | | | krynn
join:2003-01-28
Flushing, NY
| Re: Some Comparison. said by LordMalak:
Boy, are you informed. Someone at my church also though I was kidding that poor people in my country only wear a piece of rag covering their privates. Everyone has electricity?????? Do your homework dude!! Several things we take for granted here are far-fetched dreams in some parts of the world.
i think you should be the one doing the homework...electricity is available to 99.9% of S.Korean population. somethings you take for granted are taken for granted in many other parts of the world also...
[text was edited by author 2003-08-28 00:47:42] | |
| | | | netjunk
join:2002-02-20
Centreville, VA | said by LordMalak:
Boy, are you informed. Someone at my church also though I was kidding that poor people in my country only wear a piece of rag covering their privates. Everyone has electricity?????? Do your homework dude!! Several things we take for granted here are far-fetched dreams in some parts of the world.
You should visit Korea sometime to see the real Korea. I am Korean and I visit my home country many times every year to see my relatives and friends in country-side. They have VDSL, cell phones and satellite TV. I don't think average people living in California Silicon Valley can afford VDSL. | |
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| tdkyo
join:2002-12-07
Rochester, NY | You know there is actually a TV show in Korea that shows family in proverty and what they do is let people call the tv station and each call donates one thousand won (almost but not quite one dollar). At the end of the show, the money collected will be donated to the poor families. If you compare the US to some Europe nations however, it can be said that US could be full of poverty. | |
| | nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
| Yeah, our poor people "in poverty" have Cable T.V., DSL, Cell Phones, electricity, and food.
Perhaps you should take a drive through the S. Korean countryside some day and see how their impoverished live. Let's just say there are some differing opinions of poverty between the two countries.
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Put it up, plow it in, pull it through, or shutup and get out of the way - Me. Note to Congress, Re: Cable T.V.- It's time to force divestiture, force open networks, or deregulate the entire telecom industry. Now. | |
| | | krynn
join:2003-01-28
Flushing, NY | Re: Some Comparison. said by nunya:
Yeah, our poor people "in poverty" have Cable T.V., DSL, Cell Phones, electricity, and food.
Perhaps you should take a drive through the S. Korean countryside some day and see how their impoverished live. Let's just say there are some differing opinions of poverty between the two countries.
Obviously you haven't seen two things...poor people living in NYC, and korean country side. Unlike you, I have seen both, and all I can say is you are WAY off. | |
| | | netjunk
join:2002-02-20
Centreville, VA | said by nunya:
Yeah, our poor people "in poverty" have Cable T.V., DSL, Cell Phones, electricity, and food.
Perhaps you should take a drive through the S. Korean countryside some day and see how their impoverished live. Let's just say there are some differing opinions of poverty between the two countries.
Everyone has cell phone, electricity, telephone in Korea. How do I know this? I am Korean, and I have many relatives in country-side of Korea. Who do you think is making most cell phones sold in US? You oviously don't know anything about Korea or much about rest of the world.
said by nunya:
I stand by my assertion that our QOL is much better here.
Many people living/working in US does make more money, but everything's so expensive. In Korea, most things cost half as much as it does in US, so someone in Korea making equivalent of US $20-30K would have sufficient living standard as those in US making $40-60K. | |
| | | kbssat7
join:2002-09-15
Kennett Square, PA | people in korea living in poverty too have Cable T.V., DSL, Cell Phones, electricity, and food. In fact virtually all the people living in poverty probably use at least one mobile phone, as Korea has penetration ratio of 80% -third highest after Finland and HongKong. I blame these misconception about Korea to inherent ignornace americans are born with, if not IGNORANT MEDIA. | |
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| nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:5 | I stand by my assertion that our QOL is much better here. | |
| | | krynn
join:2003-01-28
Flushing, NY | Re: Some Comparison. said by nunya:
I stand by my assertion that our QOL is much better here.
that's because there are more millionaires and billionaires in the States whose QOL is much likely vastly different than that of yours and mine. they are factored into so called standard. but believe it or not, real average folks in many other parts of the world enjoy better QOL than the average Joe in the States whose standard QOL is grossly twisted by those of aforementioned super-rich people. | |
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| | i agree with ego i visited south korea before and even the poorer families there can survive. with other means of transportation like the subway and buses, families do not need to spend extra tens of thousands on cars so an average of 20k a year is sufficient. ive heard stories of farmers with these 40mbps connections. | |
| Reviews:
·Charter
| Its not the size, its the way the gov HELPS deploy The issue is not the size vs USA. The issue is that the government is so willing to help deployment for broadband. Here we have to rely on the stupid telcos to deploy stuff.
How often do you hear the US governemnt offer 10billion for DSL/broadband deployment?
How often have Telcos made promise to do it here in USA? everyday and never happens.
If the government and telcos did work together, we would prob have the same broadband available here as in SK.
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If PLC goes mainstream, every other broadband provider will be considered what dialup is today...not broadband. | |
| |  72276539Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA | Re: Its not the size, its the way the gov HELPS deploy I tell you what, if you want the government to give 10 billion dollars for broadband you just start the account and ante up your own funds to kick things off. Then once you have 10B give it to the government so they can give out 10B. Something tells me you won't be putting any of your money towards it anytime soon. | |
| | Dotay
join:2002-11-08
Fort Wayne, IN | I agree. Korea has a GDP of $476 billion while the US has a GDP of $10.4 Trillion. The $9 billion is about 2% of their GDP. Not to mention the $10 billion they have already spent. That same 2% of our GDP would get us $218 billion. I think that a similar investment of over $400 billion would go along way in wiring up most of the US.
Stats taken from »www.worldbank.org/data/databytopic/GDP.pdf | |
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72276539Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA | What you will hear in 10 years of SKorea wars
"D00d! j00 sh0tz0r m333!11!11 Wut r u?!?!? 4 FFFFAAAAGGG?!!!?!" | |
| | 72276539Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA | Re: What you will hear in 10 years of SKorea wars Bloody hell, in the title of = if. | |
| | | | | Re: What you will hear in 10 years of SKorea wars If we go to south Korea, Their bandwith is ours too | |
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| | U.S. supports buggy whips The argument that South Korea is a small compact country falls flat. This is about the relative competitive nature of national infrastructure.
By far we are the wealthiest nation in the world, if we decided to have 10 Gbps to everyone in the country we could do it.
It takes recognizing that a new economy is being born and we should not miss it. Only when we have the political leadership that commits national resources to the goal, as with the national highway system, will we keep from losing this race.
Or we can ship IT jobs to China and India and let them take over the industry like Japan took over consumer electronics. Then maybe outdated networks will be a plus.
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|  statecopPremium
join:2002-09-16
Heflin, AL | I would love to have half that connection! I pay $45 for my bellsouth DSL which they advertise as 1.5/256 but I get around 1227/219 | |
| | | It could be better but then again it could be worse. Then again, S Korea does not have to be the world cop like we have. With the money spent on Iraq, Afghanistan, we could have FTTH by now... | |
| | tdkyo
join:2002-12-07
Rochester, NY | Re: It could be better Um, South Korea has a big army that costs money too you know. About a half a billion soldiers ready on duty. But then again, they are not a war. | |
| | |  antwanpBeyond FM, Beyond AM, XM Satellite RadioPremium
join:2002-05-14
Cedar Hill, TX | Re: It could be better The Reason why South Korea has such a large army is because everyone over the age of 18 must serve 2-5 years of military service! I'm half Korean and have been there several times in the past few years. Looking at current broadband in the US, this is what they had 5 to 6 years ago!
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"If a homeless person has a funny sign, he hasn't been homeless that long. A real homeless person is too hungry to be funny." | |
| | | | | HALF A BILLION!!! Wow that's a lot for country of only like 50 million people | |
| | | | | | Re: It could be better actually closer to 38,000 us and 600,000 s k | |
| | | | tdkyo
join:2002-12-07
Rochester, NY
| my bad, is it half a million?
[text was edited by author 2003-08-28 13:42:50] | |
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Reviews:
·Comcast
| density not at fault how come u guys always blame it on population density? i mean i understand if we dont have broadband in the country like farms.. but wat about big major cities like san francisco? i mean that place is packed!! y dont we have speeds like that in frisco?? where every apartment building is x stories high..
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»thongsai-roms.shorturl.com/ | |
| | | Density not at fault No, density is not at fault. However, population density does determine whether or not a proper return on investment occurs. Of course, San Francisco does have a large population density, however, keep in mind that S. Korea's government has already spent 9 Billion dollars to "wire" the country (which is half the size of the state of Alabama). Now if our government decided to spend 9 Billion to wire San Francisco (or the local ILEC or any other investor for that matter), then San Francisco would have broadband to rival S. Korea (but I wouldn't want to own any of that companies stock and/or would be furious at our government if they were to do that since I don't live in San Francisco). Now also, San Francisco (though "packed") still doesn't even come close to 48,000,000 (approx. population of S. Korea) and for our government to spend the same amount of money per square mile as the S. Koreans, it would be over 200 Billion dollars. It's a simple concept, as people spread out, it takes more money to get the signal to them, and I believe everyone can agree we in the U.S. are quite a bit more spread out than those Koreans. | |
| | | look around Im tired of people saying that other countries dont have food,wealth, or electricity when thats all a bunch of BS. probaly 9/10 houses in South Korea have a 30 meg connection. Did somebody say poor or poverty? Look around! Ever been to the heart of downtown? Im not saying we have it bad here but they probaly have just as much on their plate as we do. They may be living in tanks 2 inches apart but I could care less for land.. just bring on the broadband! | |
|  hysteriakrDancing Phoenix
join:2002-11-07
Little Ferry, NJ
| Its not that good as it looks Yeah...ULTRAFAST DOWN/UP SPEED and ULTRA Cheatp price..Customer service...probably worse than AOL. The ping is under 10 around the country if you have internet line around you but if its old, don't even think about it. Well...I still miss it..LOL..this 2mb speed takes forever.
Damn..seeing flag of homecountry feels so good..Thanks BBR. :P
[text was edited by author 2003-08-27 23:09:52]
[text was edited by author 2003-08-28 02:31:58] | |
| | hysteriakrDancing Phoenix
join:2002-11-07
Little Ferry, NJ | Re: Its not that good as it looks The country smaller than New York State can be reconstructed to newer technology way faster and cheaper. LOL..Small is not disadvantage!
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evagilon
join:2003-01-10
Imperial Beach, CA | youth violence as critics are concerned that the new gaming 'culture', furthered by broadband, is responsible for a growing trend of youth violence.
haha "Clockwork Orange"
sorry but i work with the youth of america, and it aint the games that make them violent. is everyone els telling them what to do, and limiting their choises. of couses the "violent" kids that are gammers are going to show violent tendacys once in a while. but the aggression is mostly taken out on the game. | |
| |  ParogadiWhat? Stop Looking At Me Like ThatPremium
join:2003-03-31
Racine, WI | Re: youth violence Thats because everybody just wants something to blame other than themselves, I'm 18 I know what its like, "get a job" "don't try marijuana" "you should follow in your fathers footsteps" "why can't you be more like whomever" I've done it all an mainly for no other reason than because I was told not to, its human nature to curios, when your told not to do something you want to know why, so what do you do? You do it anyway.
I liked The Clockwork Orange.
I wish the gov did something right for a change and brought fiber to the home, then maybe repeal the DMCA, I'd love that, then I wouldn't call them the greatest evil in the known universe.
--
Please visit The Mac Forum that George Jin, Shadowlord and I from the Apple Discussions are trying to get off the ground. Visit my homepage! | |
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| | Sorry, just can't help it! I hope you don't work with them on grammer! | |
| | | Odd Absolutely amazing it is when you compare Communist North Korea who is belligerent and trannical, with peaceful tech heavy South Korea. While I dont know all the particulars of the two nations it still boggles the mind when you compare the two differing governments of the same people and how one is successful and the others people are starving in the streets. | |
| | | Werd bah... 10ms across country and I'm 19ms on my first hop..
yay to dsl@12,000 feet.
Darn point to point T1 at work across 70miles to remote office is 11ms (yeah I bet it hits fiber most of the way)
And the density argument is definitely invalid.. there are many cities in America with as slow broadband as anywhere else, based off of old infrastructure...
You could almost say its more expensive to rewire a large city due to the costs of tearing up roads etc. (taking a guess here  )
Well what with the Netherlands trialing 100mbits to homes (20 homes right now), sweden with 10mbits fiber->ethernet to home, and japan with 12mbits dsl/100mbits fiber I would take a guess and say we are just a little behind the curve
Of course, there are many countries less well off, but for petes sake we are in the *United States of America* the last superpower... and with an internet global market perhaps we will see another country move ahead... Perhaps one with less draconian laws against technology and faster pipes. | |
| | | | Re: Werd WTF are you talking about?
I got better thing to do, you seem to enjoy bitching at others and then talk as if you on crack or something.
DUDE, GET REAL. | |
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Pbert23
join:2001-12-02
San Antonio, TX | It's time to set up a company to wire the USA Personallly, I think we should make a vested interest in get the USA broadband accessable. Really if we did it the the right way( allowing for multiple owners of a area fiber network), we could do this relativly easy. Seeing that South Korea isn't much smaller than South Texas(abiet we have nearly no mountians at all and that there is a lot less people than South Korea). Why don't we collectivly e-mail our reprentatives and senators on this? | |
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