 
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD |  Cue the "America Sucks" Rants!
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Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
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Dr Demento
I Vant Blud
join:2002-01-02
Denville, NJ
3 edits | Re: Cue the "America Sucks" Rants! I wonder if "from sea to shining sea" will ever ever truely sync into some people's minds as well as the definition of state legislature? Even though I admit incumbent short-term thinking mega ISPs don't help either.
Hey I got a cool quote for a random fortune.
said by Joseph E. Levine :
You can fool all the people all of the time if the advertising is right
and the budget is big enough.
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| Shark_615
join:2006-01-17
Pickering, ON | It isn't that America sucks it is that America should know and should be doing better. There is no excuse for the crappiness of broadband in America. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| Re: Cue the "America Sucks" Rants! Better in what? We already have twice the subs as anyone else. Hell, Comcast alone has more BB subscribers than most of these other nations. If you want to talk about us having larger populations I can counter with us having even more dial up subscribers and the fact that most people don't have a "need" for broadband and broadband subscribers isn't synonymous with internet subscribers.
By any measure we're doing just fine. Broadband isn't the end all be all measure of anything and just because people don't WANT it doesn't mean anything bad.
All these statistics show is Americans have alternative sources for information whether it's 50 zillion non-state TV channels, 50 zillion non-state run newspapers or even dial up over our extremely cheap and universally available POTS services. Same thing as the US sucks at cellular article of a few days ago...people here simply aren't interested, not that they can't get it.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
 ·Comcast
| how 'bout busting a myth rant? every damn time one of these sets of statistics comes out, it is guaranteed that some moron will post "the U.S. is so big and people are spread out, that's why more people don't have broadband".
Well, if you go to that web page and scroll down to the data set for "OECD broadband penetration and population densities", the following info is in there:
pop density/penetration
U.S.: 31/16.8
Iceland: 3.0/26.7
Finland: 15/22.5
Norway: 14/21.9
Canada: 3.0/21.0
Sweden: 20/20.3
Two of those countries ahead of us have pop densities less than 1/10 of the U.S. It can be done, but with the gutless congress we have, snug in the pockets of the telecom industry, it won't be done. I don't want to hear "the U.S. is so big" crap on this forum.
'nuff said. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
1 edit | Re: how 'bout busting a myth rant? Who cares about "broadband"? These statistics don't include dial up subs (as the vast majority don't have a "need" for BB). Additionally these statistics only reflect the fact that Americans have FAR MORE sources of information and entertainment and don't have to rely on "broadband" for it as is the case in many nations with mostly state run media.
It's not that Americans CAN'T get it...we simply don't WANT it.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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| Estragon
join:2003-06-20
Greenville, NH | Ah, but the US is the world leader in making excuses.  | |
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| Primis1
join:2005-06-13
Coldwater, MI
| quote:
Two of those countries ahead of us have pop densities less than 1/10 of the U.S.
I don't want to hear "the U.S. is so big" crap on this forum.
It's much easier to deal with the "last mile" when your last mile doesn't range in the millions and millions.
Then again, what do you know about broadband deployment?
"The U.S. is so big and spread out". There. I know that will make your day.
Get over it and grow up. Either that or get out there and deploy without going deep into the red, since you're /obviously/ the expert here and have *all* the answers. | |
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| | Shark_615
join:2006-01-17
Pickering, ON | Re: how 'bout busting a myth rant? Sorry but Canada is bigger and more spread out then the US. Yes a lot of the population may be in the cities but that can be said for the US as well. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: how 'bout busting a myth rant? said by Shark_615  :Sorry but Canada is bigger and more spread out then the US. Yes a lot of the population may be in the cities but that can be said for the US as well. Most of Canada's population also lives very close to the US Border. Having a lot of people concentrated in a small area makes it easy to deploy broadband.
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Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
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| | | | Shark_615
join:2006-01-17
Pickering, ON | Re: how 'bout busting a myth rant? Using your logic the states should have no problem. The majority of the US population is located in or around major urban centres.
Besides there are many towns and cities that are not along the border of the US that have connectivity. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: how 'bout busting a myth rant? said by Shark_615 :Using your logic the states should have no problem. The majority of the US population is located in or around major urban centres. And most of those places have broadband.
said by Shark_615 :Besides there are many towns and cities that are not along the border of the US that have connectivity. And I am sure there are some other places in bumblehick which don't.
The bottom line is that anyone in the USA who lives near civilization has at least one broadband option. The situation isn't as dire as the article makes it out to be.
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Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
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FTCXtreme
join:2005-03-14
New Braintree, MA
| Re: how 'bout busting a myth rant? I dont live way out in the boondocks. Infact the closest cirty with 100+ population(Worcestor, MA) is about 30 minutes away. I live a mile away from the closest cable. My rough estimate is that 30% of this town can get DSL. Do I want broadband, heck yes. Am i entitle to have it, No. Broadband is a nice thing to have. The US is doing fine, and before this all spins off into some anti president Bush argument. Expect broadband to grow alot more, our economy is turning around, jobs are being created, unemployment has dropped. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | What do these statistics say about availability? NOTHING. Just because people don't WANT it doesn't mean they can't GET it.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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| | | | | | wolfhouse
join:2001-03-01
Union City, NJ
| Re: how 'bout busting a myth rant? said by oliphant :What do these statistics say about availability? NOTHING. Just because people don't WANT it doesn't mean they can't GET it. This is true, but this might also be a reflection of the quality/price of the broadband. I think THIS is definitely an issue with broadband in the US right now. It is not that fast, and it is often more expensive than what you would get in other countries. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| Re: how 'bout busting a myth rant? But we don't know...it could just as easily and IMO more likely that we have other sources for entertainment and information so broadband isn't needed, thus not as "wanted".
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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| | | | | | | | wolfhouse
join:2001-03-01
Union City, NJ
| Re: how 'bout busting a myth rant? said by oliphant :But we don't know...it could just as easily and IMO more likely that we have other sources for entertainment and information so broadband isn't needed, thus not as "wanted". Once again I don't want to speculate about the availability number, but the quality is certainly not up to par. That is a fact. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Re: how 'bout busting a myth rant? Quality isn't up to par based on what? Do you have reliability statistics to share? They weren't part of this study.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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| | | | | | | | | Leod
join:2005-11-07
Baton Rouge, LA
| Re: how 'bout busting a myth rant? If Americans didn't want it, the number of subscriptions wouldn't be growing as much as it has. It'd be shrinking or be fairly stagnant right? Verizon probably wouldn't even bother with their FIOS service yet (though, FIOS can and does provide other services other than pure internet access.) People wouldn't be voting to put in fiber in their own communities if they were satisfied. People simply aren't satisfied with the money they are paying for the service they are getting. You may disagree that a government based solution is the right one but you can't dismiss that people have voted for it in their respective communities. There are simply too many benefits for faster broadband that we shouldn't or even can't ignore. While I don't expect your opinion to change over a simple forum reply, I do think you should think from the other side of things. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| Again...none of these statistics are about AVAILABILITY...only who bothered to sign up for a particular class of internet service which doesn't mean anything.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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| | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| said by Primis1 :Get over it and grow up. Either that or get out there and deploy without going deep into the red, since you're /obviously/ the expert here and have *all* the answers. I will bow to your superior knowledge and intellect as soon as you explain to me why New York, Los Angeles, or any number of big, DENSE cities in the U.S. don't have broadband on par with the leaders in the world.
The fact of the matter is the U.S. is hampered by the monopoly conditions that the government has allowed to develop in this industry. There is no effective, widespread competition in this country and there won't be on the wired side unless the government steps up. Consumers only hope in the near future is muni-fiber/wireless and wireless in general that can bridge the monoploy controlled last mile.
Unless and until something happens to promote REAL competition, the U.S. will not be among the leaders in the world in this area.
In another year or so, China will have more total broadband subscribers than the U.S. and we will lose the lead in the one area where we have it. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Re: how 'bout busting a myth rant? Again says who?
These statistics are NOT ABOUT AVAILABILITY. These statistics only reflect how many pony up and subscribe.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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| nozzer
join:2004-06-25
Waltham, MA
| "Population density" over the whole country is hardly a fair measure. Taking Iceland as an example, almost all the population are located around Rejkyavik. In Canada, about 3/4 live along a fairly narrow corridor from Windsor to Quebec City, and much of the rest near the cities.
Whats needed for comparison is a measure of population DISTRIBTION, not overall density. | |
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a
@optonline.net
| Re: how 'bout busting a myth rant? Finally someone that understands basic math. A simple analogy for those who are having a hard time following: You have 2 stacks of 10 bananas 4 bananas are at each corner forming a box (two boxes are formed one for each stack.) The remaining six in the first stack are put near the first corner, in the second stack they are put randomly inside the box. Which stack of bananas is easier to collect? Uhha now take those useless statistics and shove it. Show me some neutral statistics, but oh wait on this site it is impossible we are determined to make the U.S. look bad no matter how assinine the argument is. | |
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GlenQuagmire
Giggidy Giggidy Giggidy Goo
Premium
join:2004-02-16
Grand Rapids, MI | Lot of Snow I guess in Finland where there is snow on the ground most of the year you have nothing better to do than use the Internet or f$@% but I guess that what Internet pr0n on for.  | |
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| Primis1
join:2005-06-13
Coldwater, MI
| Re: Lot of Snow "Finn" is sometimes used as an adjective (or verb even) in older online circles to describe someone with 'ancient' seniority online.
Finland's gov't pushed online access long before most other places. They had a pretty good head start, in many respects. | |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY
| ah, the talking heads unite funny how there's only two camps on these (and many other) issues. there's "america sucks" versus "free market=jesus/manna from heaven". both sides have there own logic and charts and stats and bibles and whatnot to defend their position and defile the other side's position.
here's a thought: American broadband penetration is only as good as it's being reported, and by whom. | |
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| nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| Re: ah, the talking heads unite said by garagerock :... here's a thought: American broadband penetration is only as good as it's being reported, and by whom. here's another thought: maybe American broadband is WORSE than it's being reported.
this is certainly the case with the FCC - they still define broadband as anything above 200K symmetrical. That means a 768k/128k DSL package isn't even broadband. Hell, my comcast 4M/384k package wouldn't even be considered broadband by an international definition (at least 1M symmetrical or higher). | |
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garagerock
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Louisville, KY | Re: ah, the talking heads unite well, like I said, it's only as good (or bad) as it's being reported, and by whom.
If you ask the free market gurus, all is well. If you ask the so called socialist pipe dreamers, the sky is falling. | |
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| void_of_Ligh
join:2005-12-27
Nacogdoches, TX
| Re: 7 miles makes all the difference I agree I live less than 8 miles from a town of 30,000 and am lucky to get 28.8 dial up. some people inside the city limits still don't have access to broadband and most who do have only 1 choice as Cox and SBC/ATT don't like to compete. What really bothers me is that my GF's Mom lives in a town of 152 people 45 miles away and has DSL at her home. The difference is she is not serviced by SBC/ATT | |
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jdotaku
@cableone.net
| Broadband in the USA My aunt is an internet user and cell phone user. She however doesn't make alot of money and doesn't care all that much for technology, she is very practical. She uses $10 a month for net access, dial up. Works fine for her. Then she has her cellphone which is a cheap freebie that came with her plan, she has this mostly for her work.
I do not have a cellphone (I'm 17 you'd think I would) my parents have one and its a cheap samsung. I do however have broadband because I surf the net alot, do alot of uploading/downloading so for me its necessary/nice to have.
In fact I may be upgrading my speed soon right now I'm on the bottom end of speed (3mbps) | |
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Nicholai
@bc.ca
|  US penetration
However I would like to point out that Canada with the highest penetration and with 5 of 10 the worlds fastest broadband providers being Canadian, we like our broadband.
It wasn't as easy to do as some people have mentioned with 75% of Canadians living along the US boarder. Yes you can do the large major cities with little effort, however nearly every single city in the country that has a population of 10,000 or more has broadband "available" to them. No matter where the live. Even the cities way up north past anchorage alaska in Canada have DSL available to them.
One way we are so wired is that every time they build or upgrade roads, they run fibre along the highway whether they need it or not as it is very very cheap to run fibre when the ground is already dug up. There is even more than 2000 miles of fibre along the alaska highway to get to only 20,000 residents of Whitehorse, Yukon.
Our gov't started the internet push ages ago with dialup. We have the highest number of people with any internet be it dialup or high speed (around 55 % of all households I beleive).
What I find interesting is not penetration or availability. It's QUALITY. I understand the other peoples arguments about living in rural area's etc etc. But when you have people living in LA county with DISMAL speed for their so called high speed...at a high price, that is a shame and there is no excuse for that.
Shaw cable now offers 7 mbit down and 1 mbit up for every major city in Canada for only 49 bucks a month or like 30 if you bundle with your tv package.
Just my two cents. I'm not trying to say America sucks. I'm saying America is great, my wife is American but just that broadband should be much much better than it is. | |
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Global Broadband Stats
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Re: Cue the "America Sucks" Rants!
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