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Google Denies Selling Out On Net Neutrality
Though it is clear they're now fighting real neutrality rules
by Karl Bode Thursday 05-Aug-2010 tags: business · net-neutrality
Both Verizon and Google this morning are busily engaged in damage control over leaks indicating the two companies have struck a closed-door network neutrality agreement. Verizon is blogging that their closed-door ten month negotiations with Google are about "openness and accountability." Google meanwhile isn't denying an agreement, but they are denying that they've agreed to pay Verizon for prioritization of content -- something suggested in articles by the New York Times, who probably didn't understand what their source was telling them:

"The New York Times is quite simply wrong. We have not had any conversations with Verizon about paying for carriage of Google traffic. We remain as committed as we always have been to an open internet."

As we noted this morning, Google suddenly agreeing to "pay more to ride Verizon's pipes" (as AT&T's ex-CEO phrased it back in 2005) didn't make sense. What does appear to be happening here is Verizon and Google are trying to protect revenues by crafting voluntary, self-regulatory rules that will pre-empt tougher government rules. The talks between the two companies also likely involve co-support for equally toothless, self-regulatory privacy policies aimed at pre-empting tough new federal privacy laws.

That's not exactly Google suddenly "becoming evil," but in line with their joint op/ed with Verizon back in March, it is an indication that Google is starting to do what Verizon is telling them to do. Why? How much do you think Google's Android Verizon relationship is worth? Enough for Google to ignore some of their previous principles? It's clear that as Google grows, it's shifting from innovation to turf protection, and is willing to use Verizon-style tactics (and disingenuous whining about government regulation) to do so.

And again, the broadband sector might just be fine without network neutrality rules if there were competition allowing consumers to leave an ISP should it engage in bad behavior. But given most users have the choice of only one or two carriers, and the FCC seems completely unwilling to tackle competition, these kind of back room self-regulatory agreements have virtually no value to consumers.

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Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23
Reviews:
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Cool!

Since Verizon would be getting their money from content providers like Google, ISP subscriptions will be free!

That is unless their intent is simply to charge twice for delivering the same content.
--
"Our goal (was to make) a billion phones Flash-enabled by 2010...We're actually going to get 1 billion Flash-enabled phones by 2009." -Adobe Chief Technology Officer Kevin Lynch in Nov 2008.

Elgoog

@comcast.net

Re: Cool!

Dreamer!

PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD

Re: Cool!

Dreamer, indeed. Charge twice? As if. More like Triple... at bare minimal.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: Cool!

Standard business practice is to charge for 'everything', and then once that is done, find more creative ways to get more for less and new revenue streams... then continue the cycle.
pabster

join:2001-12-09
Waterloo, IA
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
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said by Z80A:

Since Verizon would be getting their money from content providers like Google, ISP subscriptions will be free!

That is unless their intent is simply to charge twice for delivering the same content.
I striked your mistake. The real number is far higher than twice.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
said by Z80A:

Since Verizon would be getting their money from content providers like Google, ISP subscriptions will be free!

That is unless their intent is simply to charge twice for delivering the same content.
And when will you be paid to wear designer mall clothes, since they make you into a walking billboard wearing they designer's name in point 100 font on your chest?

Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23

Re: Cool!

Never because I don't wear those type of logoed clothes, but thanks for the irrelevant post.

Elgoog

@comcast.net

Well....

I'm not an expert on this whole "neutrality" thing, but if personal privacy is any part of it, Google has good reason to be getting nervous.

voipguy

join:2006-05-31
Forest Hills, NY

Big deal

Suppose you are a big company that makes bologna, and want to deliver it to the supermarkets that sell your bologna on your own trucks, because you trust your drivers to get your products there quicker and in better condition than those of the USPS. You can do that.

You can even pay the supermarket promotional money to make sure your bologna is at the front of the display case.

r81984
Fair and Balanced
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·row44

1 edit

Re: Big deal

said by voipguy:

Suppose you are a big company that makes bologna, and want to deliver it to the supermarkets that sell your bologna on your own trucks, because you trust your drivers to get your products there quicker and in better condition than those of the USPS. You can do that.

You can even pay the supermarket promotional money to make sure your bologna is at the front of the display case.
I guess you have no idea how the internet works.
Each users pays an ISP for a connection to the internet.
The connection to google is mostly dependant on the connection the end user buys, but could be bottlenecked by Google's own internet connection they pay for or even bottlenecked equally with all websites and a certain ISPs backbone.

This deal that google seems to be doing is to pay to have better priority on verizons network over other isps which is what is dumb because verizon needs to build their network to handle their customers traffic no matter what website they go to.

Google benefits from net neutrality because they get protection from extortion from ISPs making them pay twice for the customers internet connections.
The only reason google would give up that benefit is because they want to be an ISP and then later extort other ISPs for google traffic.
--
Your behavior is inconsistent with your desire to be treated like everyone else.

funchords
Hello
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said by voipguy:

Suppose you are a big company that makes bologna, and want to deliver it to the supermarkets that sell your bologna on your own trucks, because you trust your drivers to get your products there quicker and in better condition than those of the USPS. You can do that.

You can even pay the supermarket promotional money to make sure your bologna is at the front of the display case.
but you can't buy priority on the roads over other traffic, and that's what this is about.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Cape Cod, MA -- KE1MO
Tweet! Tweet! -- »twitter.com/funchords

BillRoland
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Ocala, FL
kudos:2

Re: Big deal

said by funchords:

said by voipguy:

Suppose you are a big company that makes bologna, and want to deliver it to the supermarkets that sell your bologna on your own trucks, because you trust your drivers to get your products there quicker and in better condition than those of the USPS. You can do that.

You can even pay the supermarket promotional money to make sure your bologna is at the front of the display case.
but you can't buy priority on the roads over other traffic, and that's what this is about.
Except Verizon owns its own backbone.
--
"Don't steal. The government hates competition."
Beyond AM. Beyond FM. XM

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA
kudos:5

Re: Big deal

said by BillRoland:

said by funchords:
but you can't buy priority on the roads over other traffic, and that's what this is about.
Except Verizon owns its own backbone.
Do we have to go into this again? Verizon owns its own long-lines and local phone business, yet it's "regulated" by makes-sense rules (safeguards, really).
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Cape Cod, MA -- KE1MO
Tweet! Tweet! -- »twitter.com/funchords

baineschile
2600 ways to live
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI
Ever see a carpool lane?

neowulf

join:2000-10-20
Port Orange, FL

Re: Big deal

Most carpool lanes also have large commercial truck restrictions, no matter the number of passengers. They are not designed for commercial use, they are designed for passenger vehicles. Google to me would be a large commercial truck, should definitely not benefit from priority on traffic simply because they are big. In fact they probably cause a lot of the traffic problems.

If you don't have the correct number of passengers, you can not buy your way in to a HOV lane, simply because you do not want to be stuck in traffic. Since you can't bundle two different peers as one connection to save on traffic, I don't think HOV lane rules would apply.

voipguy

join:2006-05-31
Forest Hills, NY

Re: Big deal

Actually, you can buy your way onto the HOV lanes sometimes: »www.e470.com/Default.aspx?pn=TollCalculator

What Verizon has done is made a deal to provide a better delivery experience to a CONTENT SUPPLIER (not another ISP) in exhange for compensation. This seems perfectly OK to me.

To expand upon your point, why SHOULDN'T the operator of the large commercial truck pay more for their use of the highway? Could not the money they pay be used to help reduce the congestion they create, by improving the road?

Why should only the consumers of the goods they deliver pay for it, and pay regardless of how those goods were delivered?

toddbs98

join:2000-07-08
North Little Rock, AR

Re: Big deal

Large commercial trucks do pay for the roads they use in thousands of dollars in taxes and higher tolls.
--
Patriots always speak of dying for their country never killing for it. Bertrand Russell

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
Busses get to use the carpool lane in California, as do many commercial vehicles (as long as they have 2 or more passengers).
Many here just use the HOV lanes regardless, as its 'only' a $500 fine, and there's rarely enforcement.
amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22
Reviews:
·magicjack.com
said by neowulf:

Since you can't bundle two different peers as one connection to save on traffic, I don't think HOV lane rules would apply.
I don't see how the highway analogy applies. Highways are paid, at least in part, through gasoline taxes. The more you drive, the more you pay. The revenue exists to expand roads to accomodate more traffic.

That's comparable to metered billing or overage charges for exceeding caps.

The problem I have with so-called "neutrality" is that the people who seem to want it the most don't want metered billing. They want to pay their $40 per month for a 2gb speed which was priced based upon a certain saturation of the "highway" at some point in the past. And then, as new destinations like DisneyWorld pop up, they want to drive more (24 hours a day at max speed) and claim that's what they paid for.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1

Re: Big deal

said by amigo_boy:

said by neowulf:

Since you can't bundle two different peers as one connection to save on traffic, I don't think HOV lane rules would apply.
I don't see how the highway analogy applies. Highways are paid, at least in part, through gasoline taxes. The more you drive, the more you pay. The revenue exists to expand roads to accomodate more traffic.

That's comparable to metered billing or overage charges for exceeding caps.

The problem I have with so-called "neutrality" is that the people who seem to want it the most don't want metered billing. They want to pay their $40 per month for a 2gb speed which was priced based upon a certain saturation of the "highway" at some point in the past. And then, as new destinations like DisneyWorld pop up, they want to drive more (24 hours a day at max speed) and claim that's what they paid for.
You're missing the point that ISPs are already incredibly profitable and that they no longer have congestion issues. Technology has rendered congestion issues of the past completely obsolete.
amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22
Reviews:
·magicjack.com

Re: Big deal

said by sonicmerlin:

You're missing the point that ISPs are already incredibly profitable and that they no longer have congestion issues.
Content providers will always expand to consume capacity, just like software authors consumed that really fast Pentium 2 I had.

Nothing is infinite, nor free.

said by sonicmerlin:

Technology has rendered congestion issues of the past completely obsolete.
Reminds me of when people said it was a "new economy" in 1999, or 2006.

We'll see. We'll see.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
said by funchords:

but you can't buy priority on the roads over other traffic, and that's what this is about.
Yes you can.

»www1.voanews.com/english/news/eu···369.html
amigo_boy

join:2005-07-22
Reviews:
·magicjack.com

1 edit

Re: Big deal

said by patcat88:

said by funchords:

but you can't buy priority on the roads over other traffic, and that's what this is about.
Yes you can.

»www1.voanews.com/english/news/eu···369.html
Russian officials exempting themselves from traffic laws reminds me of our local Scottsdale Mayor, who called 911 on six occasions asking for directions.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
said by voipguy:

You can even pay the supermarket promotional money to make sure your bologna is at the front of the display case.
The soda isles in my local super/mega supermarket chain are rented by the soda makers from the store. And thats why some sodas only get 1 soda bottle wide of shelf space and are always sold out (Fanta for example), yet there is 60 shelf space bottles worth of coke that are always fully stocked.
thedragonmas

join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
»www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/ns/···38585556

i think kieth put it better with the 56k dialup skit

r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
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·row44

Why?

Google has everything to gain from network neutrality rules unless they want to become an ISP down the road and screw over competitors by not allowing competitor ISP customers to access google.
--
Your behavior is inconsistent with your desire to be treated like everyone else.

AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ

Re: Why?

Why? DROID That's why.
zed260
Premium
join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN
kudos:1

Re: Why?

said by AVD:

Why? DROID That's why.
yep google phone is what its all about

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:30
How much do you think their Android relationship with Verizon is worth to them?

AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ

Re: Why?

enough to modify their Network Neutrality position.
--
standard disclaimers apply.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
kudos:30

Re: Why?

ding.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1

Re: Why?

said by Karl Bode:

ding.
I really don't think that's the problem. I think Google saw the unstoppable force that is the telecom lobbyist organization and has tried its best to draw a line *somewhere* before all freedoms were lost. Keep in mind Google didn't even hire lobbyists until 2005 or 2006, despite its massive size.

AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ

Re: Why?

Google see their future in cellphones and personal networked devices, which, as sonicmerlin correctly notes above, is totally locked down by the operators. Why fight the battle at the home ISP level, and loose the war on mobile access? Google has enough market momentum to keep the wired isp's honest, but they want agreements to get a foothold in the mobile market and keep others out.
--
standard disclaimers apply.

TSI Gabe
Premium,VIP
join:2007-01-03
Chatham, ON
kudos:2

Possibly...

Possibly it's just that Verizon paid Google for a direct connection between the two of them, which I have no problem with, this happens all the time.
cooldude9919

join:2000-05-29
Cape Girardeau, MO
kudos:5

Re: Possibly...

said by TSI Gabe:

Possibly it's just that Verizon paid Google for a direct connection between the two of them, which I have no problem with, this happens all the time.
Im sure this is already in place. Settlement free peering would be in verizons best interest anyway.

zvolts
Premium
join:2005-02-04
Mikado, MI

Google Denies Selling Out On Net Neutrality

quote:
It's also an indication that as Google grows, it's shifting from innovation to turf protection, and is willing to use Verizon-style tactics (and disingenuous whining about government regulation) to do so.
Karl, on one hand you continue to pound on the FCC (the government) for being dysfunctional if not downright incompetent (I agree with you wholeheartedly by the way). But when Google “whines about government’s regulation” (that same dysfunctional and incompetent government) you imply they (Google) are in the wrong. Without knowing which specific regulations you are referring to, I submit that the “regulations“ are probably, with the government’s track records, idiotic and worth whining about.

I’m not sure you can have it both ways. The government's good and right on one side, and bad and wrong on the other…. (I vote for the latter, by the way). I mean this is the same government that regulated the mortgage meltdown, and everything that went along with that, into existence.

See 6 replies to this post

toddbs98

join:2000-07-08
North Little Rock, AR

New Motto

AP- Google announces today its new Corporate Motto "Do No Evil...unless there is a profit in it".
--
Patriots always speak of dying for their country never killing for it. Bertrand Russell
cherries01

join:2010-07-28

yeah man

totally

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