 KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK | Watching this closely. Good Luck, Kansas City Folks! | |
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 |  | | Re: Watching this closely. I sincerely hope its also an announcement to expand into other markets. I live in the 4th largest city in the USA yet we can't get ANY fiber access inside of Houston. As far as I know only Conroe and Texas City have access to fiber (FIOS). There was a small fiber provider years back but they were driven out of business by bureaucratic bs from ATT, Comcast and Verizon. | |
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 |  |  somms join:2003-07-28 Salt Lake City, UT | Re: Watching this closely. said by moddestmike:I sincerely hope its also an announcement to expand into other markets. I live in the 4th largest city in the USA yet we can't get ANY fiber access inside of Houston. As far as I know only Conroe and Texas City have access to fiber (FIOS). There was a small fiber provider years back but they were driven out of business by bureaucratic bs from ATT, Comcast and Verizon. FIOS is so far removed from true muni FTTP or FTTH installs it isn't even funny...
Greedy incumbent Verizon FIOS has contracts, non-symmetrical speeds that don't come close to 1Gbps and no further roll-outs! | |
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 |  |  |  | | Re: Watching this closely. I understand but that's as close to "fiber" as we have. I had the pleasure of visiting my gf in NorCal and she has Sonic as her provider. I must say it makes me jealous. | |
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·HughesNet Satell..
| Re: Watching this closely. said by moddestmike:I understand but that's as close to "fiber" as we have. I had the pleasure of visiting my gf in NorCal and she has Sonic as her provider. I must say it makes me jealous. I just wish I had any provider, sat is incredibly painful to use.
Even California has places small and isolated enough that nobody cares about them :\ | |
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·Verizon FiOS
| quote: FIOS is so far removed from true muni FTTP or FTTH installs it isn't even funny...
Greedy incumbent Verizon FIOS has contracts, non-symmetrical speeds that don't come close to 1Gbps and no further roll-outs!
They dont require contracts, I have 35/35Mbps, and they offer 300Mbps, a speed that less then 1% of the population truly needs. So, thats 3 Strikes, next batter. | |
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 |  |  |  |  somms join:2003-07-28 Salt Lake City, UT | Re: Watching this closely. said by ITALIAN926: quote: FIOS is so far removed from true muni FTTP or FTTH installs it isn't even funny...
Greedy incumbent Verizon FIOS has contracts, non-symmetrical speeds that don't come close to 1Gbps and no further roll-outs!
They dont require contracts, I have 35/35Mbps, and they offer 300Mbps, a speed that less then 1% of the population truly needs. So, thats 3 Strikes, next batter. »my.verizon.com/micro/Policies/TO···n=bundle
FIOS BUNDLE CUSTOMER AGREEMENT THIS AGREEMENT CONTAINS IMPORTANT INFORMATION REGARDING YOUR RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS AND VERIZON'S. PLEASE REVIEW IT CAREFULLY
TERMINATION OF SERVICE; EARLY TERMINATION FEES
A.After the Minimum Term, you will no longer receive the FiOS Bundle discounted rates for the Services and, unless otherwise agreed to or other discounts are made available by Verizon, your Services will automatically convert to existing higher, non-discounted month-to-month rates for the Services.
B.AN EARLY TERMINATION FEE WILL APPLY IF YOU CHOOSE TO TERMINATE ALL OF THE SERVICES OR IF YOU CANCEL A SERVICE THAT IS PART OF THE FIOS BUNDLE BEFORE COMPLETING YOUR MINIMUM TERM, EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE PROVIDED IN THIS AGREEMENT.
Early Termination Fe
FiOS DP $119
FiOS TP $179
May want to review your TOS. Sure smells like a contract with a ETF to me straight off Verizon FIOS website!  | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  tshirtPremium,MVM join:2004-07-11 Snohomish, WA kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
| said by somms: .... Sure smells like a contract with a ETF to me straight..... Your fiber has an EFT too. just in a different form. If enough people discontinue early, the muni collapses and your locality pays the price either directly or as a hit on their bonding authority. Which hurts not only those that wanted fiber, but both those that didn't want it or couldn't afford it. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  tshirtPremium,MVM join:2004-07-11 Snohomish, WA kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Watching this closely. But the gist of my post is in fact correct, if the project fails the citizens are the responsible parties. Correct? And of the 16 cities only 10 have been "wired" or partly wired to the homes. in fact Layton just began their rollout this spring despite having "pledged" $2.1 million per year for 20 years, starting 10 years ago.
I'm not opposed to FTTH or muni, IF you are are realistic about the cost, the risk, and the timeframe required. When YOU gloss over all those things plus "virtually" scream post after post about the horror of those private companies TRYING to achive similar systems while reaching far more homes far more quickly than Utopians can ever hope for, YOU discredit much of the positive info you could share.
Sure the ftth and D3 cable providers are higher priced, because 1} They went a borrowed the cost of the massive buildouts, in advance, from private investors. 2} borrowing in advance rather than waiting for funds to accrue as Utopia does is expensive 3}the company and the investors shouldering the risk, rather than the local property owners holding all the responsibility is expensive 4} the companies and the investor took this risk on the basis that in return they were more likely than not to recieve the return of capital plus interest, plus profit for having take the risk.
if we were to attempt to build out the US purely from Muni's the timeline, based on utopia's progress would be in the 20-30 year range, where private solutions, (in particular cable) now reaches a high percentage of homes and with proper incentives could be all D3(or better) within 10 years at (looking at today's speeds) able to serve MOST people with speeds to the 100's of Mbps (Comcast is rumor to be offering 300/?, soon)
So i guess it's a choice between waiting a long time for Muni Gbit, or accept that each solutions helps and seeing most of the US at useful speeds within this decade. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  somms join:2003-07-28 Salt Lake City, UT | Re: Watching this closely. said by tshirt:YOU discredit much of the positive info you could share. I used to be stuck with the subpar and very expensive Comcast/Xfinity or whatever they have rebranded themselves as this fiscal quarter. I'm not sure why you are beating the corporate drum and using their talking points unless you work there!? After more than a decade NO cities have become bankrupt or will ever become bankrupt due to Utopia unlike the cities in CA and Scranton, PA. You are just spreading the corporate scare tatics used to defeat these fiber startups from ever being created... | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  tshirtPremium,MVM join:2004-07-11 Snohomish, WA kudos:3 Reviews:
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: Watching this closely. Work there? not at all, just realistic about what motivates investors to invest and there fore companies to do this or that. and able to see Utopia does carry risks which are part of the reason for the slow build out and the reason you only have 16 cities scheduled to participate. The fact that cities are going broke over a lot of over extensions of their bonding authority among other things, is exactly why I urge caution.
I do think getting it done is important, but everyone at risk needs to really understand the potential, both up and down, and also see that this is not all that is required to profit from better connectivy, you must train the current and future workforce to do PRODUCTIVE things with it.
PONG at 1Gbps isn't going to pay for it. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  morboComplete Your Transaction join:2002-01-22 00000 | said by tshirt: if we were to attempt to build out the US purely from Muni's the timeline, based on utopia's progress would be in the 20-30 year range, where private solutions, (in particular cable) now reaches a high percentage of homes and with proper incentives could be all D3(or better) within 10 years at (looking at today's speeds) able to serve MOST people with speeds to the 100's of Mbps (Comcast is rumor to be offering 300/?, soon)
So i guess it's a choice between waiting a long time for Muni Gbit, or accept that each solutions helps and seeing most of the US at useful speeds within this decade. You are missing the point: there is no real competition in broadband between telco DSL, Fios, or cable. Satellite is a joke, and 4G broadband will cost you a 2nd mortgage if you attempt to use it. The reason this country is so far behind on broadband speeds (compared globally) isn't because there's a lot of square miles here. If that was the case then dense cities would have affordable 1Gps connections available as default for consumers. No, the real reason is because the providers aren't competing. There is no real competition.
In addition, the telco duopoloy is waiting for government hand outs to help subsidize broadband deployment, especially in rural areas. Why should we provide tax payer money to these private corporations and not seriously consider muni broadband deployment? At least with muni it is an investment in the community, and the end result is fast speeds at an affordable price. | |
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 |  |  |  elray join:2000-12-16 Santa Monica, CA | said by moddestmike:FIOS is so far removed from true muni FTTP or FTTH installs it isn't even funny...
Greedy incumbent Verizon FIOS has contracts, non-symmetrical speeds that don't come close to 1Gbps and no further roll-outs! Verizon doesn't force me to pay for their service, while your government system collects from me whether I participate or not.
Just exactly who is greedy here? | |
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 |  |  | | There's no FiOS in the Houston area, only some small pockets in the suburbs of Dallas. | |
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 |  |  | | Too bad residential Houston can't capture some of the breathtaking infrastructure growth going on in the downtown area. Energy firms with their trading floors are fueling some incredible fiber and bandwidth expansions. Those downtown tunnels have become network gold allowing some of the fastest fiber deployments in the world. | |
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·Millenicom
·AT&T Southeast
·Verizon Wireless..
| Expansion into other markets is not a priority. The purpose of the project is to allow Google's frustrated web application developers the opportunity to try out applications that require symmetrical very high speed internet connections in a community with a relatively large population. Massive simultaneous use, by households and businesses, of multiple applications, including cloud based applications, is to be tested. What happens if the vast majority of a community has affordable access to very high speed symmetrical internet connections without monthly caps? What applications prove useful? What applications are not useful? Are there useful applications that are very valuable, but are only used sporadically, like during election season or certain holidays? Are there extremely valuable applications that are only used during large scale natural or man-made disasters? How do different socioeconomic groups use the service? How does that use impact their lives? How do those impacts effect the community at large?
The goal is to allow for the creation and refinement of applications, not to become a national ISP. They only did this project because too many existing ISPs think the far future means only thinking about what will go into the next annual report, and they had no where in the USA to adequately test their developers ideas. If anything they would only seek to expand outward from the Kansas City area, as rural communities surrounding KC have shown intense interest in creating their own Gigabit networks by connecting to the Kansas City project. Many small cities in Kansas and Missouri apparently have offered to do enormous amounts of preparation work, at their expense, to get a similar project in their community. That would be an interesting addition to the testing environment. What happens when the rural population, in the same general area, has the same internet access speeds and costs as the metropolitan area does?
The goal is to show the ISPs and politicians what is possible if you think about implementing a truly connected nation. It is designed to encourage others to quit thinking of the FCC's 4Mbps adequate internet access speed, as some kind of real progress. | |
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 |  |  |  | | Re: Watching this closely. said by davidhoffman:Expansion into other markets is not a priority. The purpose of the project is to allow Google's frustrated web application developers the opportunity to try out applications that require symmetrical very high speed internet connections in a community with a relatively large population. Massive simultaneous use, by households and businesses, of multiple applications, including cloud based applications, is to be tested. What happens if the vast majority of a community has affordable access to very high speed symmetrical internet connections without monthly caps? What applications prove useful? What applications are not useful? Are there useful applications that are very valuable, but are only used sporadically, like during election season or certain holidays? Are there extremely valuable applications that are only used during large scale natural or man-made disasters? How do different socioeconomic groups use the service? How does that use impact their lives? How do those impacts effect the community at large?
The goal is to allow for the creation and refinement of applications, not to become a national ISP. They only did this project because too many existing ISPs think the far future means only thinking about what will go into the next annual report, and they had no where in the USA to adequately test their developers ideas. If anything they would only seek to expand outward from the Kansas City area, as rural communities surrounding KC have shown intense interest in creating their own Gigabit networks by connecting to the Kansas City project. Many small cities in Kansas and Missouri apparently have offered to do enormous amounts of preparation work, at their expense, to get a similar project in their community. That would be an interesting addition to the testing environment. What happens when the rural population, in the same general area, has the same internet access speeds and costs as the metropolitan area does?
The goal is to show the ISPs and politicians what is possible if you think about implementing a truly connected nation. It is designed to encourage others to quit thinking of the FCC's 4Mbps adequate internet access speed, as some kind of real progress. agreed on top of that, to show ISP's that their is a need for this type of speed and that their is a use from it.. ISP's think their isnt a need and so what happens...
no more capital investment, caps, and prices goes up due to not seeing anymore *Need* to upgrade..
Will google try other citys? maybe more than likely no.. but they sure dont want to become a nationwide isp and we all can see that
If you can show the FCC and the goverment that their is a need for this then they will push the companies to do better.. as it stands the companies have no reason to upgrade anything because no one is watching what they are doing | |
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·Verizon FiOS
2 edits | Re: Watching this closely. quote: agreed on top of that, to show ISP's that their is a need for this type of speed and that their is a use from it.. ISP's think their isnt a need and so what happens...
Well, lets start small, start with me. For what reasons do the bulk of internet users need better than 100Mbps? Lord knows by reading posts from computer geeks on this site, it seems like there's demand. Considering that you can stream Netflix without buffering, in HD, with just 5 Mbps, a 100Mbps connection is complete overkill for any household.
So tell me, whats the emergency for Gbps ? Im talking residential usage here. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Watching this closely. "HD"? What is this 1990? Netflix quality sucks, and should be more like 20mbps, which is still far from bluray quality. And we are on the threshold of 4k resolution, which needs 20-100mbps.
You imply that most people have access to 100mbps. Well they don't, hardly anyone does. And if it costs about the same to deploy Gbit and 100Mbit, why wouldn't you install Gbit, unless you a monopolistic dick? | |
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·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Watching this closely. i asked what the NEED was for today (Gbps) , and you tell me about 4K resolution which will take another 10 years for people to care about such things (if ever) . You honestly think that everyone with HDTV's are going to replace them for 4K? Broadcast TV isnt even in 1080p yet, and youre talking about 4K TV.
And btw, when would 4K resolution actually be useful? When you have a 100" TV and you want to view it 2 feet away? | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | I question if there would be a national Gfiber rollout too but it is interesting that Google invested in a satellite antenna farm as well as a set top box for Google fiber. That's significant for just one market. | |
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 |  | | 1000 Mbps, and 99% of the users wont use more than 5Mbps at any given point of the day. LMAO. | |
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 |  |  me1212 join:2008-11-20 Pleasant Hill, MO | Re: Watching this closely. They offer 1000/1000, but they have 100/100 and lower too. It will be wonderful for businesses. Once I get out of college I am making the 30 minute move and buying dat 1000/1000 fiber. | |
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 |  |  |  somms join:2003-07-28 Salt Lake City, UT | Re: Watching this closely. said by me1212:They offer 1000/1000, but they have 100/100 and lower too. It will be wonderful for businesses. Once I get out of college I am making the 30 minute move and buying dat 1000/1000 fiber. I can only hope the Google 1Gbps fiber launch is on the cheap side and helps to lower the $300/month my ISP currently charges for 1Gbps service!
But wait...99.999% only need 1Mbps max with contracts and ETFs!  | |
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 |  |  |  |  me1212 join:2008-11-20 Pleasant Hill, MO | Re: Watching this closely. the 100/100 will be $50 and the 1000 will be $100. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  somms join:2003-07-28 Salt Lake City, UT | Re: Watching this closely. said by me1212:the 100/100 will be $50 and the 1000 will be $100. That seems a much more reasonable price for 1Gbps. The $50/month for 100Mbps symmetrical is close to the $45/month I now pay.
Community Broadband Bits 3 - UTOPIA and XMission
Pete Ashdown, the founder of XMission has admitted in a recent interview linked above that to date no one has actually signed up for the 1Gbps residential service. This tells me that the $300/month price is too steap and should be lowered to something like $100 in order to get people motivated to upgrade to this higher tier... | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Watching this closely. Need that connection for what? bragging rights? You WONT use that bandwidth. Those that do, would be businesses, so the high price-tag is warranted. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  somms join:2003-07-28 Salt Lake City, UT | Re: Watching this closely. said by ITALIAN926:Need that connection for what? bragging rights? You WONT use that bandwidth. Those that do, would be businesses, so the high price-tag is warranted. Please don't try to dictate to people how much bandwidth they can or will use in the future. In the audio interview I linked to, Utopia stated that there are a token few now using 10Gbps and a guy that is using a 1Gbps fiber connection for video transfer. We can't all be like you! 
Gigabit Internet for $70: the unlikely success of California's Sonic.net
Meanwhile, Sonic.net's 1Gbps fiber is dirt-cheap and I would be all over this for only $70/month!  | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  woodwardXMission BroadbandVIP join:2000-12-28 Salt Lake City, UT | We have since had subscribers sign up for that gigabit service. But the overwhelming choice for our subscribers is 50/50 Mbps for $35 (note: they pay UTOPIA on average $25/mo for the fiber) | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  somms join:2003-07-28 Salt Lake City, UT | Re: Watching this closely. said by woodward:We have since had subscribers sign up for that gigabit service. But the overwhelming choice for our subscribers is 50/50 Mbps for $35 (note: they pay UTOPIA on average $25/mo for the fiber) Thats good to know. Guess the audio interview w/Pete is slightly dated! 
Any hope of possibly adjusting XMission's 1Gbps price down in the future? This would motivate much more people to upgrade to the higher tier. If Google's announced 1Gbps monthly service price drastically undercuts XMission's $300/month price, could there be a chance you guys may shift prices accordingly!?  | |
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 |  |  |  |  1 edit | said by somms:I can only hope the Google 1Gbps fiber launch is on the cheap side and helps to lower the $300/month my ISP currently charges
Google helped sonic.net on a small 1Gbps rollout in Bay Area that was a test before KC. Their rates are about $70-$80 for 1GBit and $40-$50 for I think 100 or 300Mbps. I suspect KC service will be about the same. Edit: Ah, I see you posted about it later.
Will be interesting to see what they charge for TV services. They could really create a paradigm shift and offer it for 'free' with Google targeted ads based on Google activity and/or data mining TV viewing. They could offer it for free with that condition or charge extra if no data mining involved. But of course knowing Google, every single thing you do will be tracked anyway - so it should be free. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Watching this closely. Google just cant make up their own rules. I heard in the past that TV service cost the incumbents like $40 a month in carriage fee's. I doubt very much theyll be offering that up for free. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  1 edit | Re: Watching this closely. If Google data mines TV viewing and offers the results and/or part of ad revenue to the content providers, they may be able to offset some of those costs. Am just speculating but there may be some opportunities for a paradigm shift. The industry may not be ready for one though. | |
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 |  |  | | Better than the cable "broadband" that expects that you only use kb/s. | |
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 | | Google, Come On Down! Considering today's sad announcement here of Cogeco entering the US and using us as their new guinea pigs, Google, Atlantic Broadband territories need you!
21502. Get the zip code right. Help out my friends in 16601, 15901 and 15401 too. | |
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 |  | | Re: Google, Come On Down! said by osravens:Considering today's sad announcement here of Cogeco entering the US and using us as their new guinea pigs, Google, Atlantic Broadband territories need you!
21502. Get the zip code right. Help out my friends in 16601, 15901 and 15401 too. haha, good luck with that, In fact that sucks, but what you do have to look forward to is caps caps and lower lower lower caps than the rest of the usa 250gb haha, wright to your senators and get a bunch of people to do so.. thats your best chance of gettin somthin done | |
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 | | What does 'arriving' mean? From the KC Star article..
Were excited to announce more information Google Fiber next week, said Jenna Wandres. We havent elaborated on what arriving means.
I just hope they announce pricing. Icing on top if service will actually be available that day. | |
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 |  | | Re: What does 'arriving' mean? They will announce on July 26th that they have a big presentation on Aug 10th. | |
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 | | What about the router Does anyone know if Google will be providing a router in or with the fiber to Ethernet media converter? Most home and small business routers don't have the processors and RAM to push 1Gbps WAN to LAN throughput. My WRN3500L maxes out around 300Mbps. That is why I am considering a pfSense build or something similar that will give better routing capabilities.
Just wondering what it will take to truly route 1Gbps connections from Google's to your LAN. | |
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 |  somms join:2003-07-28 Salt Lake City, UT | Re: What about the router said by router_guy :Does anyone know if Google will be providing a router in or with the fiber to Ethernet media converter? Most home and small business routers don't have the processors and RAM to push 1Gbps WAN to LAN throughput. My WRN3500L maxes out around 300Mbps. That is why I am considering a pfSense build or something similar that will give better routing capabilities.
Just wondering what it will take to truly route 1Gbps connections from Google's to your LAN. »www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwan/r···rts/view
Looking at the above router chart, the current top-of-the-line consumer wireless routers top out at @800Mbps throughput. To be able to utilize the full 1Gbps throughput you are looking at spending some money upgading to commercial networking gear or you will just not use the full capacity of the gigabit WAN connection... | |
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 | | Next stop, Time Warner Geography.. stop announcing and start delivering! Nobody wants to hear more talk... DO! No announcement should happen unless actual installs can begin in less than 2 weeks from now. | |
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